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Thread: Gaia will map a billion stars

  1. #91
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    As a start, the GAIA Data Processing and Analysis Consortium has a series of newsletters here. Each group has publications describing their piece of the elephant...

  2. #92
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    Thanks, guys. Back from hospital I have full Internet and access to my real PC again, so I should be able to do some proper searches.

    Would be interesing if they make the data available publicly to allow for "MapReduce @ Home" sort of processing (similar to how a number of other orgs like the NOAA now make their raw data available for Big Data tests and such).

    Edit: Ah, the company they are partnering with for the Big Data stuff is called Intersystems.

    Their website: http://www.intersystems.com/our-prod...ache-overview/

    A white paper: http://www.intersystems.com/assets/C...6d0736e7d5.pdf
    Last edited by Marakai; 2013-Dec-21 at 01:19 AM.

  3. #93
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    In that vein, it says on the ESA website that:

    "Gaia's photometric instrument consists of two low-resolution fused-silica prisms dispersing all the light entering the field of view. One disperser - called BP for Blue Photometer - operates in the wavelength range 330–680 nm; the other - called RP for Red Photometer - covers the wavelength range 640–1050 nm. The prisms are located between the last telescope mirror (M6) and the focal plane. These measurements of the spectral energy distribution yield key astrophysical information, such as temperatures, gravities, metallicities, and reddenings, for each of the vast number of stars observed."

    That sounds like the observable objects range from slightly into UV to part of IR, right? So Gaia won't be able to add pulsars, black holes and other X-ray emitters?

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marakai View Post
    In that vein, it says on the ESA website that:

    "Gaia's photometric instrument consists of two low-resolution fused-silica prisms dispersing all the light entering the field of view. One disperser - called BP for Blue Photometer - operates in the wavelength range 330–680 nm; the other - called RP for Red Photometer - covers the wavelength range 640–1050 nm. The prisms are located between the last telescope mirror (M6) and the focal plane. These measurements of the spectral energy distribution yield key astrophysical information, such as temperatures, gravities, metallicities, and reddenings, for each of the vast number of stars observed."

    That sounds like the observable objects range from slightly into UV to part of IR, right? So Gaia won't be able to add pulsars, black holes and other X-ray emitters?
    If they are orphans - not part of a (close) binary+ system - no.

    For orphan black holes within the MW that's situation normal: as far as I know there's no way any astronomical observatory - operating in any region of the electromagnetic spectrum, or observing gravitational wave radiation or neutrinos or ... - could detect such an objects, except via lensing.

    As far as I know, every x-ray emitter within our own galaxy is also a gamma-ray or radio or UV/optical/IR emitter (or some combo thereof), so Gaia has a good chance of detecting those which are also optical/NIR emitters.

    Very few pulsars have been detected outside the radio/microwave region, so Gaia won't add any of those.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean Tate View Post
    Very few pulsars have been detected outside the radio/microwave region, so Gaia won't add any of those.
    What is the present uncertainty of distance to Crab, and can Gaia improve that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
    What is the present uncertainty of distance to Crab, and can Gaia improve that?
    Currently it is 6.5 +/- 1.6 thousand light years. It Gaia is able to get a distance to the Crab's central bright spot, it should be able to get it within 2% which is an improvement. Someone who actually works on the project will have to tell you if it would be able to decipher parallax within a nebula where the central object blinks 30 times a second.
    Forming opinions as we speak

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marakai View Post
    ... So Gaia won't be able to add pulsars, black holes and other X-ray emitters?
    Wow, that's ambitious. In Star Trek The Motion Picture (a work of science fiction taking place in the future) the characters encounter a probe called Voyager 6 which had apparently been sent out to learn everything about everything. That is not Gaia. Gaia's mission is to vastly improve what we know about the positions and locations of many stars within a few thousand light years of here. No one ever said it was to be a complete census of all massive objects.

    BTW, Jean Tate is right. Let me add one more small point. A very few rare pulsars are new enough that they give off enough light on their own in Gaia's observation range that they can be seen as isolated objects. The center of the Crab nebula is one obvious example.
    Forming opinions as we speak

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by antoniseb View Post
    Wow, that's ambitious. In Star Trek The Motion Picture (a work of science fiction taking place in the future) the characters encounter a probe called Voyager 6 which had apparently been sent out to learn everything about everything. That is not Gaia. Gaia's mission is to vastly improve what we know about the positions and locations of many stars within a few thousand light years of here. No one ever said it was to be a complete census of all massive objects.
    Goodness! Twas merely a question not an accusation of omission on ESA's side! Besides, if you're mapping a billion stars, what's a few thousand or million black holes among friends, I ask you?

  9. #99
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    Watch Gaia Go From Lab to Launch in Two Minutes - thread here. Links to a video about a time lapse of its launch on a Soyuz rocket.

    ESA Science & Technology: Gaia enters its operational orbit
    Last night, a critical manoeuvre boosted into its 263 000 × 707 000 × 370 000 km, 180 day-long orbit around L2. A small course correction will be made next week to complete the manoeuvre. ...

    Once the spacecraft instruments have been fully tested and calibrated – an activity that started en route to L2 and will continue for another four months – Gaia will be ready to enter a five-year operational phase.
    Among other things, GAIA will help improve the cosmic distance ladder (Wikipedia). There are two main methods, standard-candle and geometry. The standard-candle method uses some objects with similar intrinsic luminosities, and it must be calibrated by finding the distances to the nearest ones of each type by some other means. For the farther standard candles, like Type Ia supernovae, this means using nearer ones, like Cepheid variables. The geometry method involves finding parallaxes, and there are several types.
    • Annual or trigonometric parallax, across the Earth's orbit
    • Statistical parallax, by comparing radial velocities and proper motions of several similar objects
    • Moving-cluster method, using a convergence or divergence point derived from the members' proper motions
    • Orbital parallax, from visual-spectroscopic binaries
    • Expansion parallax, from supernova remnants and the like

    The annual kind is the best kind in some ways, since it can be done on any kind of object, and since it can be done individually, object by object. However, its range has long been very limited, with not many very bright objects measurable with it. That's why the Hyades Cluster has long been an important part of the distance ladder, with its distance measured by the moving-cluster method. It's used to calibrate a standard candle: medium-luminosity main-sequence stars. One can then find the distances to more distant open clusters using those stars in them, and use those distances for the next step outward in standard candles: Cepheid variables.

    The Hipparcos astrometric satellite got annual parallaxes good enough to compete with the moving-cluster method, getting distances to individual stars in that cluster. [astro-ph/9707253] The Hyades: distance, structure, dynamics, and age (arXiv)

    However, even the nearest Cepheid variables are barely within Hipparcos's reach. But they and RR Lyrae variables and likely the nearest globular clusters will be well within GAIA's reach.

  10. #100
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    First Gaia launch anniversary

    DPAC members share their personal launch and commissioning stories

    http://www.cosmos.esa.int/web/gaia/news_20141219

    In the past year Gaia has recorded 11.1 billion transits with 120.5 billion astrometric, 22.2 billion photometric and 3.3 billion spectroscopic measurements with its 106 CCDs on board.
    In the routine phase the corresponding numbers are 6.76 billion transits with 73.4, 13.5 and 2 billion astrometric, photometric and spectroscopic measurements. The total data volume from Gaia so far is 9.2 TB. The whole sky has been observed at least once in the routine phase.
    The spacecraft is currently performing astrometry and photometry for stars brighter than G = 20.7 mag and spectroscopy till GRVS = 16.2 mag.

  11. #101
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    I would like a recount. I am sure there is 5 more

  12. #102
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    Media representatives are invited to a briefing on the first data release of ESA’s Gaia mission, an astrometry mission to map the stars of our galaxy, the Milky Way.
    http://www.satprnews.com/
    The media briefing is being organised by ESA at the European Space Astronomy Centre (ESAC) in Villanueva de la Cañada, Madrid, Spain , on Wednesday 14 September 2016, 11:30–13:00 CEST. Doors open at 11:00 CEST.

  13. #103
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    I wonder if DM + 61 366 (Gilese 710?) is updated.

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    The ESA team say Gaia will be 100 times more accurately than Gaia's predecessor Hipparcos

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    Emily Lakdawalla on Gaia's first galaxy map.

    http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily...alaxy-map.html

    The astronomy world is abuzz today because of ESA's announcement of the first release of data from the Gaia mission. Gaia is a five-year mission that will eventually measure the positions and motions of billions of stars; this first data release includes positions for 1.1 billion of them, and proper motions for 2 million. The map below does not show all 1.1 billion stars; rather it's a map of the density of stars that Gaia has measured so far, with brighter areas corresponding to more stars.

    There's an excellent and very detailed writeup about today's announcement from the BBC. Right now the data set "only" has motions for 2 million stars because it takes more than one year's worth of observations to detect those motions; they can only compare the first year's worth of Gaia data to the previous best set of star positions derived from the Hipparcos and Tycho-2 star catalogs.

    How is Gaia important to planetary science? Planetary science is, by definition, the study of the sky's moving objects. Astronomers discover minor planets (asteroids, comets, and other small bodies) by observing their motion against the background of stars. Our ability to predict the future motions of planets is therefore limited by how precise our catalog of the stellar background is. For the greatest precision, we need to know not only where the background stars are, but where they were in the past, because although we think of them as being fixed in the sky, the stars also move. That's where Gaia comes in. Comparing observations of our solar system's small bodies to the Gaia catalog will allow us to determine their orbital motions much more precisely than we have in the past.

  16. #106
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    How many stars to expect in Gaia's second data release
    April 6, 2018, European Space Agency


    https://phys.org/news/2018-04-stars-gaia.html

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    Titled link: How many stars to expect in Gaia's second data release
    Source: Gaia DR2 - Cosmos
    Date: April 25
    Observing time: 22 months (25 July 2014 - 23 May 2016)

    What it will contain:
    • Positions and observed luminosities: 1 692 919 135 stars
    • Parallaxes and proper motions: 1 331 909 727 stars
    • Colors: 1.38 billion stars
    • Radial velocities: 7 224 631 stars
    • Variability: 550 737 stars
    • Surface temperature: 161 497 595 stars
    • Extinction: 87 733 672 stars
    • Radius and intrinsic luminosity: 76 956 778 stars
    • In the Solar System: 14 099 known objects, mostly asteroid, from 1.5 million observations

    The first release used a year of data, and had positions of over a billion stars but parallaxes and proper motions of only 2 million stars.

    No word on exoplanets, however.

  18. #108
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    I have a question going back to the first Gaia release:

    Quotes:

    In the summer of 2016, the Milky Way doubled in size. By which we mean, the number of stars it was previously believed to contain was found to be only about half what it actually contains.

    ....."What we know is that there’s maybe twice as many stars as we previously thought, and that’s just in the bit of the Milk Way that Gaia has measured.”


    “The fact that Gaia has such high spatial resolution, (it) can tell the difference between two or three stars that are very close together, but nevertheless are separate stars, whereas previously from our images from the ground, blurry sort of things, it merged into what we thought was one star.”

    This is from Professor Gerry Gilmore, from Cambridge University, in the UK.

    http://www.thefreeborntimes.com/a-growing-galaxy/

    The "double the number of stars expected" statement was also made on BBC's Sky at Night episode on Gaia, a few months back.

    Now what are we to make of this, what does it actually mean?

    There are widely-accepted mass models of the galaxy, which have stipulated masses for the stellar components of disk, bulge and halo.

    So if we have double the number of stars, does it mean that the stellar population has an average mass of half that previously modelled? This is strange, because again there are widely accepted mass functions for the stellar population.

    Or does it mean there are twice as many stars of the same average mass, in which case there would be double the mass of stars?

    Or something in between?

    Or am I reading too much into this?

  19. #109
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    Thanks to a Massive Release from Gaia, we now Know Where 1.7 BILLION Stars are in the Milky Way
    https://www.universetoday.com/139103...the-milky-way/
    Matt Williams

    On December 19th, 2013, the European Space Agency’s (ESA) Gaia spacecraft took to space with one of the most ambitious missions ever. Over the course of its planned 5-year mission (which was recently extended), this space observatory would map over a billion stars, planets, comets, asteroids and quasars in order to create the largest and most precise 3D catalog of the Milky Way ever created.

    The first release of Gaia data, which took place in September 2016, contained the distances and motions of over two million stars. But the second data release, which took on April 25th, 2018, is even more impressive. Included in the release are the positions, distance indicators and motions of more than one billion stars, asteroids within our Solar System, and even stars beyond the Milky Way.

    Whereas the first data release was based on just over a year’s worth of observations, the new data release covers a period of about 22 months – which ran from July 25th, 2014, to May 23rd, 2016. Preliminary analysis of this data has revealed fine details about 1.7 billion stars in the Milky Way and how they move, which is essential to understanding how our galaxy evolved over time.

    “The second Gaia data release represents a huge leap forward with respect to ESA‘s Hipparcos satellite, Gaia‘s predecessor and the first space mission for astrometry, which surveyed some 118 000 stars almost thirty years ago… The sheer number of stars alone, with their positions and motions, would make Gaia‘s new catalogue already quite astonishing. But there is more: this unique scientific catalogue includes many other data types, with information about the properties of the stars and other celestial objects, making this release truly exceptional.“

  20. #110
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    kzb,

    The mass profile of the galaxy is estimated from the observed velocities of stars, so the total mass estimate isn't going to change by much, if any.

    My reading of the comments about "twice as many stars" is that they originally estimated that Gaia would detect about 1 billion stars. It has actually detected more like 1.7 billion stars, some of which have apparent G magnitudes as dim as 20.8 or so. Unfortunately the detection efficiency isn't uniform across the sky, with some areas only going as deep as 17th or 18th magnitude. (My understanding is that much of this detection irregularity is due to extremely tiny amounts of sunlight getting into the telescope by unanticipated paths and reflections.) Taking this inefficiency into account seems to imply that they would have detected more like 2 billion stars if the satellite were working perfectly: twice as many as originally anticipated.

    Unfortunately, like you, I've only found a couple of vague comments about this, so this is all my own "reading between the lines."

    ETA:

    Here's one of the documents which describe how they estimated how many objects would be detected:
    https://www.aanda.org/articles/aa/pd...aa18646-11.pdf

    Here's table 14, which gives explicit numbers: 1.1 billion detectable by end-of-mission.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by selden; 2018-Apr-28 at 01:50 PM.
    Selden

  21. #111
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    Now I'm thoroughly confused.

    This paper includes a plot (Page 12, Fig.6) showing how many stars were expected to be detected in several populations at different magnitudes:
    https://www.aanda.org/articles/aa/pd...aa18646-11.pdf

    Its Table 15 (Page 10) gives the star counts for those populations: ~66% of 1.1 billion should be in the thin disk.

    This paper includes a plot (Page 5, Fig.1) showing how many stars are included in DR1 and DR2 at different magnitudes:
    https://www.aanda.org/articles/aa/pd...aa33051-18.pdf

    figs1+6.png is my attempt to overlay those two plots, matching their scales.

    If anything, this suggests to me that the detected number of stars is slightly fewer than predicted, since the DR2 Fig.1 count exactly matches the star count expected for the thin disk at a G magnitude of 20, and includes a smaller area than the thin disk plot of Fig.6.

    What am I doing wrong?

    Or does this suggest that the values shown in Fig.6 do not directly correspond to those in Table 15?

    In the paper they seem to imply that Fig 6 is there only to show that star populations differ for the various parts of the galaxy:
    The distribution of stars according to the G magnitude varies depending on the stellar population, which is particularly different for the bulge (Fig. 6).
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Selden

  22. #112
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    [QUOTE=Launch window;2447865]Thanks to a Massive Release from Gaia, we now Know Where 1.7 BILLION Stars are in the Milky Way
    https://www.universetoday.com/139103...the-milky-way/
    Matt Williams

    I think we knew already there are far more than 1.7 billion !

    I think you've misunderstood my problem.

    The 1.7 billion number is the number of stars Gaia has seen in its survey area. Apparently this is double the number expected.

    My question was about what this actually means for current models of the galaxy.

  23. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by selden View Post
    Now I'm thoroughly confused.

    This paper includes a plot (Page 12, Fig.6) showing how many stars were expected to be detected in several populations at different magnitudes:
    https://www.aanda.org/articles/aa/pd...aa18646-11.pdf

    Its Table 15 (Page 10) gives the star counts for those populations: ~66% of 1.1 billion should be in the thin disk.

    This paper includes a plot (Page 5, Fig.1) showing how many stars are included in DR1 and DR2 at different magnitudes:
    https://www.aanda.org/articles/aa/pd...aa33051-18.pdf

    figs1+6.png is my attempt to overlay those two plots, matching their scales.

    If anything, this suggests to me that the detected number of stars is slightly fewer than predicted, since the DR2 Fig.1 count exactly matches the star count expected for the thin disk at a G magnitude of 20, and includes a smaller area than the thin disk plot of Fig.6.

    What am I doing wrong?

    Or does this suggest that the values shown in Fig.6 do not directly correspond to those in Table 15?

    In the paper they seem to imply that Fig 6 is there only to show that star populations differ for the various parts of the galaxy:


    “What we know is that there’s maybe twice as many stars as we previously thought, and that’s just in the bit of the Milk Way that Gaia has measured.”

    -Prof Gerry Gilmore, one of the lead scientists on the project. He also stated this on BBC's Sky at Night programme a few months ago, so I believe the attribution is correct.

    Having looked at those papers, I guess that could be interpreted as "twice as many detected as we planned for". But it really did not come across like that, and it is not how it was reported.

  24. #114
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    “What we know is that there’s maybe twice as many stars as we previously thought, and that’s just in the bit of the Milk Way that Gaia has measured.”
    Would that change the dark matter profile?
    Depending on whom you ask, everything is relative.

  25. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkline55 View Post
    Would that change the dark matter profile?
    No.

    A better handle on the positions and motions of (distant) globular clusters and MW satellite galaxies might though; both are "on the cards" ... ;-)

  26. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean Tate View Post
    No.

    A better handle on the positions and motions of (distant) globular clusters and MW satellite galaxies might though; both are "on the cards" ... ;-)
    But something's got to change surely? The question is, what?

    Maybe the low end of the stellar mass function to increase the number of small stars still further?

    It seems to me if there are double the number of stars, but the average mass stays the same, there is double the stellar mass?

    I guess the difficulty with this is, the MW luminosity would double, and I don't think this fits either.

  27. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by kzb View Post
    ... It seems to me if there are double the number of stars, but the average mass stays the same, there is double the stellar mass? ...
    I have the impression that most of the newly discovered stars are less than 0.1 solar mass each. Also worth noting, the mass of the Milky Way (with all of its stars, gas, dust, and dark matter) is confirmed by the movement of the globular clusters, and by the proper motions of the other galaxies in our local cluster. That number isn't changing, except to become more precisely known.
    Forming opinions as we speak

  28. #118
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    got these on social media feeds https://www.hooktube.com/watch?v=TrvTLK_XlNs Watch the Constellations 'Dance' In ESA Gaia 3D Motion Animation and # NASAKepler field in action with GaiaDR2 proper motions! https://twitter.com/meg_bedell/statu...22975261396992

  29. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by antoniseb View Post
    I have the impression that most of the newly discovered stars are less than 0.1 solar mass each. Also worth noting, the mass of the Milky Way (with all of its stars, gas, dust, and dark matter) is confirmed by the movement of the globular clusters, and by the proper motions of the other galaxies in our local cluster. That number isn't changing, except to become more precisely known.
    There is already a Gaia-based MW mass calculation posted:

    Evidence for an Intermediate-Mass Milky Way from Gaia DR2 Halo Globular Cluster Motions

    https://arxiv.org/abs/1804.11348


    I would have thought that the discovery of a huge population of 0.1 solar mass stars would be big news.

    It changes the mass to light ratio, it changes the baryonic mass, it changes the stellar mass function very significantly.

    Surely there are some large revisions to galactic models needed if this is indeed the case ?

  30. #120
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    Going back to the source:

    Quote Originally Posted by kzb View Post
    I have a question going back to the first Gaia release:

    Quotes:

    In the summer of 2016, the Milky Way doubled in size. By which we mean, the number of stars it was previously believed to contain was found to be only about half what it actually contains.

    ....."What we know is that there’s maybe twice as many stars as we previously thought, and that’s just in the bit of the Milk Way that Gaia has measured.”


    “The fact that Gaia has such high spatial resolution, (it) can tell the difference between two or three stars that are very close together, but nevertheless are separate stars, whereas previously from our images from the ground, blurry sort of things, it merged into what we thought was one star.”

    This is from Professor Gerry Gilmore, from Cambridge University, in the UK.

    http://www.thefreeborntimes.com/a-growing-galaxy/

    The "double the number of stars expected" statement was also made on BBC's Sky at Night episode on Gaia, a few months back.

    Now what are we to make of this, what does it actually mean?

    There are widely-accepted mass models of the galaxy, which have stipulated masses for the stellar components of disk, bulge and halo.

    So if we have double the number of stars, does it mean that the stellar population has an average mass of half that previously modelled? This is strange, because again there are widely accepted mass functions for the stellar population.

    Or does it mean there are twice as many stars of the same average mass, in which case there would be double the mass of stars?

    Or something in between?

    Or am I reading too much into this?
    (my bold)

    I think you are reading too much into it. There's a lot of hype in those quotes, and what was actually found (apparently) is considerably less dramatic than "the Milky Way doubled in size". Gaia DR1 sampled a very small part of the MW, and the stellar populations it did sample are surely quite heterogeneous. It would take quite a lot of work to tease out of the DR1 data just what effects the greater resolution (so ability to deblend) of Gaia had on things like estimated mass distributions of stars in that dataset.

    In any case, DR2 is a far, far richer dataset, and a much better place to start looking for how changes in the estimated number of stars might affect estimates of the MW's stellar mass.

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