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Thread: Asteroids

  1. #1
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    Asteroids

    Please tag and discuss images you notice with asteroids.

  2. #2
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    I'm a refuge from Ice Hunters, and I'm happy to be back looking for KBO's. I actually like the UI better, especially the "toggle contrast" button: I would have almost missed a couple of bright transients without it.

    But when it comes to asteroids, I'm curious. Is there something different about the data? Or am I just unlucky? I've looked at about 200 images here so far, and no asteroids yet. At least not the 3 or 5 distinct dots I was used to seeing. (though I am finding 1 transient for about every 4 images, which is about what I remember from IH). I have seen some slightly elongated looking transients. Is the interval between exposures much shorter now? Or are the images just from a more asteroid-free part of the sky?

  3. #3
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    Good question, I have now 1710 images and almost none asteroid (4, 2 confirmed) but 489 transients (368 "confirmed").

  4. #4
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    My stats in Ice Hunter were: Images ~1100 Asteroids ~50
    In Ice Investigators (so far): Images ~3000 Asteroids 3

    So something must be different (that or I'm going blind )

  5. #5
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    Hi,

    I'm coming from IceHunters too and was used to find many asteroids, but here on Ice Investigators, after more than 1000 images, no asteroid ! The set of images we're looking through must be far from the ecliptic

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by econseil View Post
    Hi,

    I'm coming from IceHunters too and was used to find many asteroids, but here on Ice Investigators, after more than 1000 images, no asteroid ! The set of images we're looking through must be far from the ecliptic
    That's exactly what I thought, but I'm not very sure... This is the actual position of Pluto and the ecliptic:
    Attachment 52

    I don't know how close are NEO to the ecliptic... Probably the set of images we're looking at in Ice Investigators are from the far side to the ecliptic (up and left), but again, I don't know the size of the "box" around Pluto we're looking at either.

    I think we have a good question to the science team

  7. #7
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    That would be interesting to know. They've said that NH can do a maximum course change of less than 2 deg (I'm not sure if that’s WRT the ecliptic or what) and operate until ~2020, this creates a big cone that it could potentially visit. Of course, you have to look in and outside of the cone to find objects that will be present in the 2015-2020 timeframe. Considering things that far away in low-ish eccentricity orbits move so slowly, I'd guess +- 1 degree perpendicular and +- 2 degrees parallel to the ecliptic from the Pluto encounter WRT Earth would the area to search. At ~15 arc sec per image that would be ~5,000,000 images.

    On topic, I've only seen 1 asteroid in 500 images.

  8. #8
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    You can see here where we are looking : http://www.boulder.swri.edu/~spencer...find_dps09.pdf (page 7).

    As far as I remember, most images from Ice Hunters have been taken in 2004-2005 (That's why we discovered the KBOs named 2004 LV31 & 2004 LW31). But I don't know the "age" of the current images.

  9. #9
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    Interesting. I haven't been an IceHunter so I don't have your experience, but I must say that I have been very much in doubt whenever I have marked something here in IceInvestigator as an asteroid. I was in doubt because almost none of my markings looked exactly like the 2 samples shown below the image. My rule of thumb for marking something as an asteroid became "If it is a white blob like a transient, but it is elongated and not round, then it is probably an asteroid". And since I get a fair number of my asteroid markings "confirmed" (currently 39 out of 49) I thought I must be doing the right thing. Reading your comments, I think I (and apparently other IceInvestigators) are not doing the right thing at all.

  10. #10
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  11. #11
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    My understanding, after googling the IceHunter project, is that there isn't sufficient information from our markings of asteroids to actually determine their orbits and hence their identification and hence their official recognition. I assume the same holds true here.

    Can anyone from the CosmoQuest team set me straight on this and explain what the purpose of marking asteroids is, if the above still holds true?

  12. #12
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    They're getting marked for two reasons: 1) in hopes that we have the data to have a discovery (low probability), and 2) in case we catch in our frame an object that becomes a known object and has a poorly understood orbit this data can help with. That later, while on the surface much less interesting, is actually potentially (low-probability) much more important. Imagine someone locates an earth-orbit crossing object and it's unclear if it is going to hit or miss. By being able to quickly grab our objects with asteroids in them, we can potentially sort the issue. While in all likelihood, the asteroid data won't be of use, the potential is enough that the extra click or two is worth making.

  13. #13
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    I, too, have found the images with asteroids in the gallery section unlike those in the example thumbnails. Many images have what microscopists used to describe as 'chatter marks' or artifacts cutting across the horizontal plane of the image. (Not unlike scratch marks on old 35mm negatives.) This grouping of images is hard to differentiate asteroids from transients.

  14. #14
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    Thank you for your reply, starstryder.

    I have to say though that the problem is not the extra click or two, but the time spent deciding whether a blob, which doesn't seem quite up to "transient" status, might perhaps be up to "asteroid" status. For me this extra evaluation costs at least as much investment of time as my initial transient/not transient evaluation. Given that the purpose of this project is to identify KBOs and given the very low probability of our asteroid clicking being of any use, I must admit that I have stopped spending time on marking asteroids.

  15. #15
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    Hi everybody,

    Im new in this forum. Ive read your remarks about the numbers of asteroids.
    I have participating Ice Hunters too. I know the same questions popped up there too. Because we had batches where there were almost no asteroids and other ones with a lot more.
    So maybe the same thing is going on over here.

  16. #16
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    Discuss - 5/1325179p.ccd16.48.1489.082


    It is possible? Asteroid? Very big blobs on a top image...

    http://www.cadc.hia.nrc.gc.ca/data/p....1489.0827.png

  17. #17
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    Hi NuzGliwic, welcome to CosmoQuest! As far as your question is concerned, I think that the big blobs at the top all show some signs of bad subtraction (the black spots), so probably no asteroid. I hope that helps a bit!

  18. #18
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    Until today, my screen had several readouts at bottom center/right. These gave an increase in the number of marked asteroids if I marked one right, which helped with identification because if the number of asteroids increased, you knew that it had been previously confirmed. There were other readouts tied to the number of images marked and the number of transients confirmed also. When I logged on at around 6 a.m., GMT I couldn't access the page. Later, after contacting a team member, I was informed that an update had occurred. Able to log on alright now but there are no figures indicating how many images I've done or how many asteroids or transients have been confirmed. Anyone got any ideas? Please advise. I liked the read outs. The numbers appealed to my obsessive/compulsive disorder as I liked to end on certain numbers. No, I don't know why either! Patterns, aren't they lovely?

  19. #19
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    See starstryder's post here.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by NuzGliwic View Post

    It is possible? Asteroid? Very big blobs on a top image...

    http://www.cadc.hia.nrc.gc.ca/data/p....1489.0827.png
    yes, i agree, the large white oblong blob is an asteroid. it is very bright and probably not a discovery but still something good to mark

  21. #21
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    -> , kmasterdo, borncamp - Thanks for reply.

    Next question:

    Starstryder wrote, that asteroids are not very interesting objects for this investigate, but I think that some category asteroids must be interesting. For example, when in a picture are two asteroids, but angle one of them is very different ( refer to ecliptic plane).

    Right?

    UPDATE

    Like this -> http://www.cadc.hia.nrc.gc.ca/data/pub/vospace/KBOzoo/cNHF3.215/1325179p.ccd27.48.1120.0831.png

    p.s.

    Another problem - how many asteroids are in this picture above? 1? 2? 4? (probably - 4)

  22. #22
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    I'm confused.
    I did lots of Icehunting and got lots of asteroids (and spotted ten KBOs that were included in the list of "hopefuls" passed to the MPC for investigation) but the asteroids were clearly different in Icehunter images and showed up as either elongated blobs or the three or more dot variety. Here the asteroids shown as "confirmed" appear to be either two dots long or elongated blobs and so are some of the "confirmed" KBOs ! I don't know what to think or mark - but would rather mark the two blob type as asteroids than not mark them. I will leave it to the science team to sort out until it is clarified by them.

  23. #23
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    May 2010
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    Discuss - II-X-72384



    A case of asteroid with very big angle (refers to ecliptic plane).

    http://www.cadc.hia.nrc.gc.ca/data/p....1123.1653.png

  24. #24
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    Sep 2014
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    Hi,

    I'm coming from IceHunters too and was used to find many asteroids, but here on Ice Investigators, after more than 1000 images, no asteroid ! The set of images we're looking through must be far from the ecliptic

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