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Thread: What are you watching?

  1. #2041
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    Quote Originally Posted by msollot View Post
    Well, I suppose you'd have both. Relate this to cars. Toyotas are mass produced and cheap. Lambourghini's on the other hand, are built by hand.
    You're still relating it to the past/current. 3D printing is getting cheaper and cheaper. It was very expensive when I was a kid twenty five years ago (it was called stereo lithography and I thought it was so cool) now you can buy 3D printers at Big Box stores and it's humdrum. What will it be like in another 25 years? Sentient androids aren't just around the corner; they're at least a couple decades out, and maybe much longer.

    Re the urine test, an android could do what humans who are on drugs do: carry a plastic bag of someone else's pee with a little hose and valve on it in their pants.

  2. #2042
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkepticJ View Post
    You're still relating it to the past/current. 3D printing is getting cheaper and cheaper. It was very expensive when I was a kid twenty five years ago (it was called stereo lithography and I thought it was so cool) now you can buy 3D printers at Big Box stores and it's humdrum. What will it be like in another 25 years? Sentient androids aren't just around the corner; they're at least a couple decades out, and maybe much longer.

    Re the urine test, an android could do what humans who are on drugs do: carry a plastic bag of someone else's pee with a little hose and valve on it in their pants.
    First, I consult at different companies; some have random drug testing where you get the email that day to report for testing. So the androids would have to get fresh urine daily (which sounds vaguely vampirish) which seems impractical.

    Second, I've never done 3D printing; not an expert. So, let's say "they" can 3D print supporting skeleton, maybe even flesh. But even in 25 years, do you think they could 3D print motors and the various electronics to move arms and legs? 3D print lenses for eyes? 3D print the positronic brain (shoutout to my guy, Isaac Asimov)? I'd want someone like an engineer who works with circuit boards and chips to jump into the discussion and give their opinion on that. (And you call yourself SkepticJ)
    "Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana." - Groucho Marx

    "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

  3. #2043
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    Quote Originally Posted by msollot View Post
    First, I consult at different companies; some have random drug testing where you get the email that day to report for testing. So the androids would have to get fresh urine daily (which sounds vaguely vampirish) which seems impractical.
    Or they keep a stash in a refrigerator at home. They have sympathizing friends that donate pee. This is what people on drugs do. It's not not inconvenient for them, but someone who is sufficiently motivated can do many things.

    Quote Originally Posted by maillot View Post
    So, let's say "they" can 3D print supporting skeleton, maybe even flesh. But even in 25 years, do you think they could 3D print motors and the various electronics to move arms and legs? 3D print lenses for eyes? 3D print the positronic brain (shoutout to my guy, Isaac Asimov)? I'd want someone like an engineer who works with circuit boards and chips to jump into the discussion and give their opinion on that. (And you call yourself SkepticJ)
    Not everything need be printed. Standard components in various sizes could suffice. Most bespoke industrial machines use standard electric motors, bearings, and wires.

    That said, yeah, I think electric motors could be printed. Electric motors are simple things. Have you ever looked inside one? A few years ago a semi-auto pistol was printed in metal. Cameras and brains? Those would be standard components made in Silicon Valley, at least until mature molecular manufacturing is around.

  4. #2044
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkepticJ View Post
    Or they keep a stash in a refrigerator at home. They have sympathizing friends that donate pee. This is what people on drugs do. It's not not inconvenient for them, but someone who is sufficiently motivated can do many things.
    You only need to go to their house and raid their refrigerator once; you'll never do it again. "I thought it was lemonade!"

    I'm going to assume your acquired your drug knowledge anecdotally.

    That said, yeah, I think electric motors could be printed. Electric motors are simple things. Have you ever looked inside one? A few years ago a semi-auto pistol was printed in metal. Cameras and brains? Those would be standard components made in Silicon Valley, at least until mature molecular manufacturing is around.
    I remember hearing that, but it could only be fired once or twice before it blew up. Still, in 20 years or so, I suppose the technology could improve to make something more durable.

    This should probably be it's own thread, but if 3D printing technology expands as you're proposing, it would basically put entire industries out of business.
    "Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana." - Groucho Marx

    "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

  5. #2045
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    There's is no test for "urine freshness", and drug screening tests can't even tell human from animal urine (which is possible if you look for DNA from shed cells in the urine, but expensive and far from routine). Even identifying a sample as urine relies on just a few simple chemical and visual tests. So drug screening relies on searching people for conceal samples before they void, or even actually watching while they pass urine. So an android would actually find it easier to defeat the system than a human would, just by keeping an internal bladder full of animal urine or even a simple chemical mix that looks like urine to routine testing. It wouldn't be found on searching, and (depending on anatomy) it could even be voided in the presence of a witness.
    We know from the TV series that androids are equipped with an excessive amount of anatomical realism, so I can think of a number of ways this could be made to work.

    In the original Swedish series, the synths are specifically noted to maintain human skin temperature, and there would seem to be various reasons (not least their use in the sex industry) that the same would apply to the British version. Which would address another issue with regard to providing a convincing fake urine sample - it needs to be warm when handed to the tester.

    Grant Hutchison
    Last edited by grant hutchison; 2017-Mar-07 at 08:02 PM. Reason: Last para

  6. #2046
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    Good to know, the next time I have to take a drug test.

    So, was the Swedish series as good as the British version?
    "Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana." - Groucho Marx

    "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

  7. #2047
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    Quote Originally Posted by msollot View Post
    I remember hearing that, but it could only be fired once or twice before it blew up.
    You're thinking of the plastic gun. It would be noteworthy if it didn't break.

    The metal one's fine; it's fired thousands of bullets.

    Quote Originally Posted by msollot View Post
    This should probably be it's own thread, but if 3D printing technology expands as you're proposing, it would basically put entire industries out of business.
    It will, and it will allow new industries. Refrigeration technology killed the ice block delivery industry. Cars killed the horse and buggy industry. Electric lights killed the oil lamp and gas-light industry.

    When the day comes that anything can be "printed" inside special boxes, there will still need to be product designers/engineers.

  8. 2017-Mar-09, 09:27 AM

  9. #2048
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    Epilogue:

    Finally had time alone on the weekend so sat down to binge some of "The Expanse".

    But ... although my set top box still had recorded copies of episodes 2 to 5, the episode 1 that I'd downloaded on to the same box via their "on demand" service, had "timed out" and removed itself.

    So the same show, all accessed legitimately from the same business, thanks to their schizophrenic multiple means of access with oddly different licensing, remains unwatchable.

    And again, the only reason I hadn't recorded episode 1 in the first place, was their stupid U.I. had led to a "reminder" being scheduled, not a "record this" command.


    So, back to getting a copy off my workmate, who illegally downloads. And - I'm dumping the satellite service as soon as I can get an OK from my Wife.

  10. #2049
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
    My wife was watching the final Harry Potter film (Deathly Hallows 2) last night and I was amused to note that bolts of magic from Death-eaters' wands follow a ballistic trajectory. Just like pumpkins!

    Stuff that bugs me: I hate it when the film changes a significant aspect of the ending. Nigel kills the snake BEFORE Harry is seen to be alive. And the Deathstick gets put back in Dumbledore's tomb.
    And Harry and Voldemort have a punch up.

  11. #2050
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    I was channel surfing Saturday and ran across a showing of The Enemy Below. Had to watch it ... again. Still first rate and engrossing, even though I know the ending. (Which, apparently, is not the originally intended ending.)
    Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by ignorance or stupidity.
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  12. #2051
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    I was channel surfing Saturday and ran across a showing of The Enemy Below. Had to watch it ... again. Still first rate and engrossing, even though I know the ending. (Which, apparently, is not the originally intended ending.)
    My wife was watching that as well. Good film, but much different from the book. For one thing, in the book, it's a British Destroyer. After both ships sink, the crews begin fighting in the lifeboats, only being interrupted by the arrival of another British destroyer. No such thing as a good German in the book.

    Also interesting is that David Heddison was cast as the XO of the destroyer. He was later in another, truly awful, TV series about a submarine.
    Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

  13. #2052
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    We finally caught up to the available SHIELD episodes on our DVR (we finished episode 10 last night). The general dysfunction and infighting continues, with double-crosses not far behind. The Ghost Rider block of episodes was not my favorite either. I know I complain a lot about this show, but I feel like the first season was so good, they just are a good script away from getting back there. Hope springs eternal, I guess.

    We also watched "The Eagle Huntress" last week, about a 13 year-old Kazakh girl in Mongolia who follows her family's tradition of becoming a eagle huntress and entering the annual eagle hunter competition. She's the youngest person and first woman/girl to enter. Her father is immensely supportive, and there are certain universal truths and exasperation that need no subtitles throughout the documentary. I won't spoil more of the story. We watched it in recognition of International Women's Day.

    CJSF
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    Volunteers! We need volunteers! Soldiers to meet them. Have no fear! Have no fear! You will be killed right away."
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  14. #2053
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    The Eagle Huntress was an interesting movie, nicely filmed, but it did distort reality to a great extent. Aisholpan was actually part of a long tradition of Central Asian eagle huntresses. She wasn't the first, and didn't struggle against a culture of patronizing misogyny as portrayed in the film.
    You can read Adrienne Mayor's description of the true historical and social context here (7MB pdf). It would have been a better and more honest movie if it had celebrated the long existence of eagle huntresses, rather than manufacturing a non-existent and patronizingly stereotypical conflict. (One of the producers has said, "Entertainment isn't anthropology," which is essentially an admission that they knocked together a fable they thought people would like to watch.)

    Grant Hutchison
    Last edited by grant hutchison; 2017-Mar-13 at 07:24 PM.

  15. #2054
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    Well that just brought me down a bit. "Entertainment isn't anthropology" is a far cry from inventing a story and selling it as real.

    You can probably hear my sigh of disgust and resignation from there.

    CJSF
    "There has been a spacecraft sighted, flying high above the sky! Sirens declare there's one among us from Venus!
    Volunteers! We need volunteers! Soldiers to meet them. Have no fear! Have no fear! You will be killed right away."
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  16. #2055
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    Maybe they were trying to make it more like Whale Rider?

  17. #2056
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJSF View Post
    Well that just brought me down a bit. "Entertainment isn't anthropology" is a far cry from inventing a story and selling it as real.

    You can probably hear my sigh of disgust and resignation from there.
    Sorry to bring you down. It depresses me that the director and producers thought a concocted fable about a girl's struggle in a male-dominated society would be more popular than an accurate story about a female tradition with a very long history, which is part of the cultural heritage in the region. If you think back to the contest scenes, it's quite evident that all the men present - competitors and judges - took the arrival of Aisholpan and her eagle entirely in their stride.

    Grant Hutchison

  18. #2057
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    Quote Originally Posted by grant hutchison View Post
    Sorry to bring you down. It depresses me that the director and producers thought a concocted fable about a girl's struggle in a male-dominated society would be more popular than an accurate story about a female tradition with a very long history, which is part of the cultural heritage in the region. If you think back to the contest scenes, it's quite evident that all the men present - competitors and judges - took the arrival of Aisholpan and her eagle entirely in their stride.

    Grant Hutchison
    I know you didn't intend it.

    I did notice there wasn't a huge uproar at the contest, but I figured it was just further entrenching the idea that the older men were the bigger problem and many of the younger didn't mind, or were too bemused to make a fuss. After reading that paper, it makes more sense as you describe it. I'm caught now in wondering what, if anything, I should say to my wife. She's become quite enamored by the story as she knows it, and it gave her a bit of a much needed lift. It's not entirely certain she'd find out on her own what the truth of the matter is, but I feel uncomfortable in not explaining it to her.

    Oh, well. That's not your (or anyone else here) concern.

    CJSF
    "There has been a spacecraft sighted, flying high above the sky! Sirens declare there's one among us from Venus!
    Volunteers! We need volunteers! Soldiers to meet them. Have no fear! Have no fear! You will be killed right away."
    -They Might Be Giants, "For Science"

    lonelybirder.org

  19. #2058
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJSF View Post
    Oh, well. That's not your (or anyone else here) concern.
    Two issues, I guess.
    Good news - women have a more nuanced role in Central Asian nomad society than the film portrayed.
    Bad news - someone sold you a stereotype.

    (If you want to see a great film about the relationship between men and women in Mongolian nomad society, try and find a copy of Urga, which I think was distributed as Close To Eden in the USA.)

    Grant Hutchison

  20. #2059
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    I got a disc of Unsolved History episodes from the library. I'm so fond of that show. It's full of "many people find this bit of the story suspicious" followed by scientific testing and "except it turns out this is exactly what you should expect." This one also included some scientific drinking, which you'd get on the Discovery Channel occasionally at the time--in this case, "we've given our host eleven screwdrivers in two and a half hours, and now, we're pouring him into a driving simulator."
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  21. #2060
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    I've been watching a lot of American Pickers. Ironically, it's one of just a few shows on The History Channel that are related to actual history, not ancient astronaut woo or blue collar workers with atypical jobs.

  22. #2061
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    Quote Originally Posted by grant hutchison View Post
    It depresses me that the director and producers thought a concocted fable about a girl's struggle in a male-dominated society would be more popular than an accurate story about a female tradition with a very long history, which is part of the cultural heritage in the region.
    Question - does it depress you because they should've known they were wrong, or does it depress you because they were probably right?
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  23. #2062
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeanF View Post
    Question - does it depress you because they should've known they were wrong, or does it depress you because they were probably right?
    I wouldn't care to estimate the market for the two "versions" of the story. I just think telling a lie in order to court popularity is a Bad Thing, and it reflects a worrying truth about our society. Entertainment is always anthropology, in that context.

    Grant Hutchison

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    Quote Originally Posted by CJSF View Post
    I know you didn't intend it.

    I did notice there wasn't a huge uproar at the contest, but I figured it was just further entrenching the idea that the older men were the bigger problem and many of the younger didn't mind, or were too bemused to make a fuss. After reading that paper, it makes more sense as you describe it. I'm caught now in wondering what, if anything, I should say to my wife. She's become quite enamored by the story as she knows it, and it gave her a bit of a much needed lift. It's not entirely certain she'd find out on her own what the truth of the matter is, but I feel uncomfortable in not explaining it to her.

    Oh, well. That's not your (or anyone else here) concern.

    CJSF
    The Eagle Huntress is just opening here and today the local paper rang a full page article about it - completely accepting the film-makers premises. It was in the "entertainment" pages and, as is the norm these days, I think they just slightly re-arranged the press release and never bothered to do any research themselves. They certainly did not mention any of the controversy about how accurate it is.

  25. #2064
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozduck View Post
    The Eagle Huntress is just opening here and today the local paper rang a full page article about it - completely accepting the film-makers premises. ...
    Letter to the Editor time?
    Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by ignorance or stupidity.
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    You know, the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They donít alter their views to fit the facts. They alter the facts to fit their views.
    Doctor Who

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  26. #2065
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    Letter to the Editor time?
    I had written a reply about why it would be a waste of time writing such a letter - basically it is a newspaper on a determined dive downmarket & owned by a TV Mogul (not Murdoch) who has introduced uncredited cross-promotions of his other interests and crass articles etc etc. On a second reading I noticed that the article in question was actually not produced locally but taken from the LA Daily News.

    But, on consideration, I have written a "letter" saying that readers of the article should have been made aware of the furore about the film - not necessarily to stop them attending but at least make them "informed consumers". I will let the forum know if it is published.

  27. #2066
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    Watched the first three Iron Fist this morning.

    Felt a lot like Arrow in theme and content - but for me, better. Wife liked it too. (And she stuck with Arrow long after I'd gotten sick/bored of it and stopped watching).

    Seems most people disagree (i.e. Rotten Tomatoes: 17%). Will have to watch them all to "compare notes" with the critics.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Fist_(TV_series)

  28. #2067
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    Trial & Error. John Lithgow is great.
    Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by ignorance or stupidity.
    Isaac Asimov

    You know, the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They donít alter their views to fit the facts. They alter the facts to fit their views.
    Doctor Who

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  29. #2068
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    We also started Iron Fist last night, and quite frankly, it made me angry. Do you know how hard it is to lock someone in a mental hospital against their will in this country, even if they manifestly have something wrong with them? There was also the tired old "got off on an insanity plea" line.
    _____________________________________________
    Gillian

    "Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

    "You can't erase icing."

    "I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

  30. #2069
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    We watched An Adventure in Space and Time last night, having just purchased the disc. Very good, I think. But it could have done without the Matt Smith cameo near the end.

    I really like David Bradley as an actor. I should probably look for other stuff he's been in. I've previously seen him in Broadchurch and Harry Potter.
    Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

  31. #2070
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    Mild spoilers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gillianren View Post
    We also started Iron Fist last night, and quite frankly, it made me angry. Do you know how hard it is to lock someone in a mental hospital against their will in this country, even if they manifestly have something wrong with them? ...
    I wrote most of that off as being about how much control the Rand corp has. After all, they've also been able to install/access cameras, and arrange an attempted-beating-to-death. The rules/laws are not being followed. (I'll be more annoyed if there's no follow-up/consequence from the hospital, e.g. investigation from the Dr who was working with Danny.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gillianren View Post
    ... There was also the tired old "got off on an insanity plea" line.
    I'll admit to not having thought much about that. You've made me think.

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