Page 1 of 8 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 225

Thread: China is making headway with cooperation with other countries excluding US.

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Klang, Malaysia
    Posts
    6,344

    China is making headway with cooperation with other countries excluding US.

    China and Russia just announced discussions to work on joint projects to Mars and Venus. Coming close on the heels is a joint workshop with UK on Space.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/world-...and-technology

    Nearly 200 participants from British and Chinese universities, business and government organisations will come together over the next three days to explore future co-operation on space science and technology.

    The event follows the signing of an MOU in December 2013 between the UK and Chinese national space agencies on the exploration and use of outer space. This is the ninth in a series of annual workshops organised by Beijing’s Beihang University and the UK’s Rutherford Appleton Laboratory (RAL) – both parties to the Secretariat of the UK-China Virtual Joint Space Laboratory. This year’s event, arranged with the assistance of the Shanghai Academy of Space Technology, will be the biggest yet: a reflection of the warm relationship between the two countries’ space authorities and the growing volume of research and commercial collaborations.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    4,138
    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    China and Russia just announced discussions to work on joint projects to Mars and Venus. Coming close on the heels is a joint workshop with UK on Space.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/world-...and-technology
    So having already flogged this to death you decided to give it a thread of its own? As has been pointed out this Sino-Russian co=operation is little more than vague aspirations at the moment and the forums in the UK are basically a long established talking shop to drum up business for UK companies who have technologies for spaceflight the Chinese can't reproduce easily.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    N.E.Ohio
    Posts
    22,006
    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    China and Russia just announced discussions to work on joint projects to Mars and Venus. Coming close on the heels is a joint workshop with UK on Space.
    So they discussed. What is coming from it?
    What's an MOU?

    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    China is making headway with coperation with other countries excluding US.
    You are constantly trying to rip the cooperation of the U.S. It is simply not true.
    The U.S. has been in talks in the same way that UK is.

    I feel that one of your issues is the US lack of willingness to participate with the ISS.

    It's true that they will not be invited to the ISS, but that is a decades old project, closer to its end than to it's beginning of usefullness.
    Any new treaties for cooperation can get very complicated. I'm not talking about world politics, just that the operation, equipment and responsibilities of the various nations have been worked out in a delicate balance. Plus, how long would it take for development and testing of any kind of module to the ISS? It took 2 years from Dragon to docking, and that's just a craft. It's not a component that the station would have to be designed to support or interface with.
    The ISS is a special case that can not be an example of space politics. Cooperation usually relies on new projects.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Klang, Malaysia
    Posts
    6,344
    Quote Originally Posted by NEOWatcher View Post
    So they discussed. What is coming from it?
    What's an MOU?


    You are constantly trying to rip the cooperation of the U.S. It is simply not true.
    The U.S. has been in talks in the same way that UK is.

    I feel that one of your issues is the US lack of willingness to participate with the ISS.

    It's true that they will not be invited to the ISS, but that is a decades old project, closer to its end than to it's beginning of usefullness.
    Any new treaties for cooperation can get very complicated. I'm not talking about world politics, just that the operation, equipment and responsibilities of the various nations have been worked out in a delicate balance. Plus, how long would it take for development and testing of any kind of module to the ISS? It took 2 years from Dragon to docking, and that's just a craft. It's not a component that the station would have to be designed to support or interface with.
    The ISS is a special case that can not be an example of space politics. Cooperation usually relies on new projects.
    It is not that I am trying to "rip the cooperation", if fact I want greater cooperation. The only way we can move forward in space with any decent speed is with cooperation.

    I know there has been cooperation in the past between the US and China. But now there is "the U.S. law that forbids cooperation in space between the two countries" as stated in the article you pointed to. From what I have read the other partners were keen to have China join the ISS project but has been vetoed by the US. That is why China is building it's own space station.

    As for new projects there are many for BEO like 1) space stations in BEO 2) moon landings including bases 3) Mars and the list can go on. As long as the US law is in place it can not happen with both the US and China in the same project.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    N.E.Ohio
    Posts
    22,006
    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    It is not that I am trying to "rip the cooperation", if fact I want greater cooperation.
    Saying you want more means that you are saying we don't cooperate enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    The only way we can move forward in space with any decent speed is with cooperation.
    Like in the 60s? OK, bad example. Nowadays it's money, not politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    I know there has been cooperation in the past between the US and China. But now there is "the U.S. law that forbids cooperation in space between the two countries" as stated in the article you pointed to.
    Somehow I read right past that statement. I retract part of my emotion here. It's hard to seperate NASA and Goverment sometimes. In this case the intention of cooperation is there, and the willingness do do it by finding avenues that the law doesn't stop.

    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    From what I have read the other partners were keen to have China join the ISS project but has been vetoed by the US. That is why China is building it's own space station.
    But the other issues are just as big, if not bigger than the politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    As long as the US law is in place it can not happen with both the US and China in the same project.
    Are you saying the US nor China can not do any of those things independently?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Klang, Malaysia
    Posts
    6,344
    Quote Originally Posted by NEOWatcher Are you saying the US nor China can not do any of those things independently?
    They can but I would like to see them cooperate and quicken the process.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    N.E.Ohio
    Posts
    22,006
    It sure would spread out the risk and cost, but I'm not sure if that would help with the timeline. It depends on what items are on the critical path. That's how it ended up with the ISS. It wasn't built any faster than the plans when it was the US alone. (of course planned timelines and actuals don't always match either)
    Last edited by NEOWatcher; 2014-Jun-02 at 02:59 PM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Klang, Malaysia
    Posts
    6,344
    Looks like congress has been requested to relook at the ban on space cooperation with China. Report was published in a Chinese paper but it is supposed to by the U.S. National Research Council (NRC) and mandated by congress. The report also concludes if the US is serious of a human Mars mission in the 2030s then NASA's budget has to have a 5 percent increase per year from now.

    http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/sc..._133384132.htm

    The U.S. government needs to reexamine its space policy that blocks its space agency NASA from working on bilateral projects with China, a 286-page report mandated by U.S. Congress said Wednesday.

    "This policy, while driven by congressional sentiment, denies the U.S. partnership with a nation that will probably be capable of making truly significant contributions to international collaborative missions," said the report from the U.S. National Research Council (NRC).

    "It may be time to reexamine whether this policy serves the long-term interests of the United States," according to the report titled "Pathways to Exploration: Rationales and Approaches for a U. S. Program of Human Space Exploration."

    Here is The Washington Post on the same report

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/nation...d1394&hpid=z10

    A sweeping review of NASA’s human spaceflight program has concluded that the agency has an unsustainable and unsafe strategy that will prevent the United States from achieving a human landing on Mars in the foreseeable future.

    The 286-page National Research Council report, the culmination of an 18-month, $3.2 million investigation mandated by Congress, says that to continue on the present course under budgets that don’t keep pace with inflation “is to invite failure, disillusionment, and the loss of the longstanding international perception that human spaceflight is something the United States does best.”
    Last edited by selvaarchi; 2014-Jun-05 at 06:12 AM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    10,873
    We just don't spend enough on space--and it has us sniping at each others programs. One thing to learn is not to rely too much on anyone else--we see that with Soyuz and the current political crisis.

    This is why I want NASA to do as much in house as possible. Russia, ULA, Space X--all these can help. But independent capability should be pushed for. One cannot help but think that cooperation leads one to do less individually.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    2,145
    Mars or bust, says new report on NASA human space exploration, LA Times
    latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-80405861/
    "But the report said that if the U.S. is to take its space program to the next level, it will require more funds for the step-by-step missions that will lead to the Martian surface. It will also require, the authors said, more international cooperation -- including with China. Current federal law blocks NASA from working on bilateral projects with the Chinese."

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    378
    We are supposed to ignore their rampant intellectual property theft, state-sponsored industrial espionage, currency manipulations etc.?

    Sent from my LG-E980 using Tapatalk

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    N.E.Ohio
    Posts
    22,006
    Quote Originally Posted by Launch window View Post
    Mars or bust, says new report on NASA human space exploration, LA Times
    latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-80405861/
    I cant find that story from your link, for some reason I get a huge page of tons of stuff without NASA being mentioned.
    But; That sounds like the Bloomberg report we talked about in the Ukraine CCtCap thread last week.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Peters Creek, Alaska
    Posts
    11,989
    Quote Originally Posted by docmordrid View Post
    We are supposed to ignore their rampant intellectual property theft, state-sponsored industrial espionage, currency manipulations etc.?
    This is outside the scope of political discussion allowed by our rules. No more please.
    Forum Rules►  ◄FAQ►  ◄ATM Forum Advice►  ◄Conspiracy Advice
    Click http://cosmoquest.org/forum/images/buttons/report-40b.png to report a post (even this one) to the moderation team.


    Man is a tool-using animal. Nowhere do you find him without tools; without tools he is nothing, with tools he is all. — Thomas Carlyle (1795-1881)

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    237
    Quote Originally Posted by NEOWatcher View Post
    So they discussed. What is coming from it?
    What's an MOU?
    having briefly looked through the posts I don't see an answer to your question. An MOU is a Memorandum Of Understanding

  15. #15
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    N.E.Ohio
    Posts
    22,006
    Quote Originally Posted by LoneTree1941 View Post
    An MOU is a Memorandum Of Understanding
    Thank you. Apparently Selvaarchi doesn't know either.

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneTree1941 View Post
    having briefly looked through the posts I don't see an answer to your question
    Now that the conference is over, I decided to see if I could find anything... Nothing.

    If everyone can excuse my ramblings for a moment, I'd like to interject some of my own inferrences.

    Since this has been going on for 5 years, and is not the first conference, I wondered why this MOU was necessary. After doing some searchnig, it looks like the political situation between them has been shaky, and larger efforts to ease that were made at the time of the MOU.

    From what I can infer from the many articles I've seen about the political issues, China has the upper hand in the political relationship while the UK is relying on a large export market to them. Sol this might be a sign of further space cooperation, but sounds like it might be token gestures right now.

    Another item they had on the agenda was the climate. This might also be a major point that UK wants to discuss along with many other major powers in the world. Of course, any climate research and mitigation requires space assets for measuring and monitoring. This further makes me suspect that the topic is limitted.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Klang, Malaysia
    Posts
    6,344
    One outcome of the law passed by congress was US scientists boycotting a NASA conference. A British journalist won best news story award from Association of British Science Writers writing on it. Because of the backlash NASA in the end relented and allowed some Chinese to attend.

    http://www.theguardian.com/science/2...rd-second-year

    He won for his story "US scientists boycott Nasa conference over China ban", in which he broke the news of a backlash from researchers against the US space agency over its decision to exclude Chinese scientists – even those at US institutions.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Klang, Malaysia
    Posts
    6,344
    More contacts between China and Russia. I get the impression the Russians are keen to do joint projects with the Chinese associated with the moon and Mars.

    http://en.ria.ru/russia/20140630/190...lore-Mars.html

    Russia is ready to work with China to explore the Moon and Mars, Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin said Monday.

    “If we talk about manned space flights and exploration of outer space, as well as joint exploration of the solar system, primarily it is the Moon and Mars, we are ready to go forth with our Chinese friends, hand in hand,” Rogozin said during a roundtable held within the framework of The First Russia-China Expo.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Klang, Malaysia
    Posts
    6,344
    China and India are helping the UN to strengthening drought monitoring and early warning in the Asia Pacific region using their satellites.

    http://www.radioaustralia.net.au/int...asting/1337940

    SIRIMANNE: We have brought the space faring countries of this region to help the others in drought monitoring and early warnings.

    And what we have done here is we have two countries, we call them the service nodes, the China and India, the space agents of China and India, to provide satellite data and to develop this data into products, then to train the countries which are involved in the drought mechanism. To read this data, make some sense of this data and at the end of the day, use this data to strengthen the early warnings for drought in Asia and the Pacific.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Klang, Malaysia
    Posts
    6,344
    China and France have confirmed a joint venture in radar ocean-surface research, approving the final construction of a satellite carrying instruments from both nations to be launched in 2018.

    http://www.spacenews.com/article/civ...ellite-project

    The China-French Oceanic Satellite, CFOSat, will carry the French Surface Waves Investigation and Monitoring, or SWIM, instrument, a wave-scatterometer spectrometer that has been under development for several years at the French space agency, CNES.

    The China National Space Administration, in addition to providing the CFOSat platform and a launch of the 700-kilogram satellite on a Chinese Long March rocket, will build the SCAT wind-measurement scatterometer.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Klang, Malaysia
    Posts
    6,344
    The Washington Post ran the following article in it's Sunday edition "Moonwalker Buzz Aldrin says U.S. taking giant leap backward". He wants 'the U.S. to coordinate further international lunar missions, such as sending construction equipment to help other nations build laboratories on the surface. Likewise, the U.S. could develop standards of construction so that all the labs, modules and units could be linked together easily — no matter what nation built them." He says " the U.S. and China should attempt to cooperate for human space exploration. Indeed, 2020 will be the 45th anniversary of the Apollo-Soyuz mission, when U.S. and Soviet spacecraft docked together in orbit — a symbolic time for the U.S. and China to perform a similar feat, he said."

    I like the idea of the US setting standards and taking on the task of transporting the construction equipment. With one stroke, he finds a purpose for the SLS and is unlikely to find resistance from other countries. The US is the only country with that carrying capability currently.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...=all#pagebreak

    Forty-five years after man first landed on the moon, one of the men who was there is worried that the U.S. has become lost in space.

    With the anniversary Sunday of Apollo 11’s giant leap for mankind, Buzz Aldrin sees a moribund American space program without a major task to conquer while a geopolitical rival is going full steam ahead, reminding him of the Soviet launch of the first man-made satellite in 1957. Only the U.S. isn’t reacting now as it did then.

    “We’re in the worst position we’ve ever been in,” he told The Washington Times. “We’re in worse competitive shape than after Sputnik.”

  21. #21
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    N.E.Ohio
    Posts
    22,006
    “We’re in the worst position we’ve ever been in,” he told The Washington Times. “We’re in worse competitive shape than after Sputnik.”
    I'd like him to explain that comment.
    We have BEO manned craft being constructed, we have commercial LEO craft being constructed, we have landed on moon and mars, we have probes past the planets and going to other planets. We have the space station for another 10 years. We have commercial entities striving for their own station.
    Other nations only have plans and aspirations about such things. They are rising fast, but we don't know yet if can they sustain that growth.
    Our budget is already much bigger than any nation in the world. (if it's possible to compare different governmental spending protocols).
    What's bad about that?

    I agree with him that there are a lot of things we could be doing, but I think this is more lobbying for funding more than it is a realistic plan.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Klang, Malaysia
    Posts
    6,344
    China seems to intensify its efforts to forge more cooperation with other nations. Two examples below.

    http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/ch..._133492063.htm

    The satellite, which is said to be equipped with more modern cameras to observe the Earth, will be used to capture images so as to monitor the environment efficiently and to better manage agricultural resources for Brazil. The space cooperation program is considered as part of the Brazilian government's efforts to reduce its independence on U.S. and European space equipment.

    China and Brazil have also agreed to cooperate in building the CBERS-5 satellite, which is expected to be launched in 2017.
    http://online.wsj.com/articles/china...od=_newsreel_5

    could get in the 1st time and now they want money. If anyone has excess to the full interview, please post it here.
    Senior Chinese and European space officials have been discussing potentially wide-ranging cooperation on manned exploration programs, a prospect that threatens to further complicate the future of the international space station.

    Jean-Jacques Dordain, director-general of the European Space Agency, said in an interview that the two sides have talked about the issue of extensive in-orbit cooperation in some detail, without coming to any resolution. His comments, made during an international air show...

  23. #23
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    N.E.Ohio
    Posts
    22,006
    Build it and they will come.

    I don't know if it's really an effort by China to cooperate as it is China's ability has progressed to the point where others are interested in contracting with them and their services.

    We all know that US and European products are more expensive than Chinese to begin with. (of course, that's just a generalization)

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Klang, Malaysia
    Posts
    6,344
    A Netherlands space company has delivered equipment to China.

    http://www.antwerpspace.be/news/antw...nisat-in-china

    Antwerp Space NV, a subsidiary of OHB AG (ISIN: DE0005936124, Prime Standard) successfully delivered 2 Omnisat equipments to two institutional customers in China.
    The equipment will be used for checking out of high speed satellite transmitters and in ground stations for the reception of earth observation data. The Omnisat of Antwerp Space has won the international tender because of its unique capability to deliver up to 3 independent high speed satellite receivers in a single chassis at any given intermediate frequency. This allowed the customers to have a very flexible receiver, at a competitive price.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Pontoise France
    Posts
    2,319
    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    A Netherlands space company has delivered equipment to China.

    http://www.antwerpspace.be/news/antw...nisat-in-china

    Antwerp Space NV, a subsidiary of OHB AG (ISIN: DE0005936124, Prime Standard) successfully delivered 2 Omnisat equipments to two institutional customers in China.
    The equipment will be used for checking out of high speed satellite transmitters and in ground stations for the reception of earth observation data. The Omnisat of Antwerp Space has won the international tender because of its unique capability to deliver up to 3 independent high speed satellite receivers in a single chassis at any given intermediate frequency. This allowed the customers to have a very flexible receiver, at a competitive price.
    Just for A little nitpick : this is a company from Belgium and not from the Netherland. Une fois !

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Klang, Malaysia
    Posts
    6,344
    Quote Originally Posted by galacsi View Post
    Just for A little nitpick : this is a company from Belgium and not from the Netherland. Une fois !
    Sorry, explains why I never excelled in geography

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Klang, Malaysia
    Posts
    6,344
    China's quest to do more joint projects with Europe is paying dividends.

    http://spacenews.com/article/civil-s...ronomy-mission

    The French and Chinese space agencies have agreed to jointly develop a gamma-ray-burst astronomy satellite to be launched in 2021 aboard a Chinese Long March rocket, the French space agency, CNES, said Aug. 4.

    The satellite, called SVOM, or Space-based multiband astronomical Variable Objects Monitor, will carry four instruments, with CNES and the China National Space Administration (CNSA) responsible for two each. Overall mission management will be led by CNSA.

    The agreement, signed Aug. 2 in Beijing by CNES President Jean-Yves Le Gall and CNSA Administrator Xu Dazhe, is the first concrete result of a broad space-cooperation accord signed in March following a summit in Paris of the Chinese and French heads of state. The accord specifically referenced astrophysics and oceanography as areas of future cooperation.

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Klang, Malaysia
    Posts
    6,344
    The action of the west against Russia has opened major opportunities for China.

    http://en.ria.ru/military_news/20140...-Military.html

    " he newspaper also noted that the Russian aerospace and military industries do not use components produced in China at the moment.
    “Over the next two, two-and-a-half years, until Russian manufacturers put the necessary space and military electronic components into production, plans call for the purchase of such items from China amounting to several billion dollars” Izvestia reported, quoting a source, close to Roscosmos.
    Citing the source, the newspaper added that that 18 representatives of 12 CASIC institutions engaged in the development and production of electronic components will visit Moscow to take part in a special workshop for Russian manufacturers in August. A parallel workshop will be held in St. Petersburg."

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Klang, Malaysia
    Posts
    6,344
    Another American voice calls for cooperation with China.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/jimclash...mars-missions/

    JC: Should America get China involved with ISS and sending humans to Mars?

    LC: China is the only entity other than Russia that can launch astronauts into space now. I’ve been an advocate for years of bringing China into the ISS program just so we have another way of getting crew and cargo there in case of a problem with Russia’s spacecraft. Even the Russians want that because they’re the single string now – if something goes wrong, even they are not going to be able to get to the station. China has technical capability, but they do not have the operational experience that Russia or we have – that’s why they would be interested in partnering. For them it’s also validation – a seal of approval if you will that NASA will work with them. From our standpoint, China would be a very different partner than Russia. Russia is a good partner, but they have had financial challenges and, by and large, we have been funding their part of ISS for a while. China has a budget and can build their own modules, contribute hardware and time. The technology is good – I’ve seen it. It makes sense to partner with them now for ISS, then eventually for going back to the moon and on to Mars. I think it would help relations between our countries.

  30. #30
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    N.E.Ohio
    Posts
    22,006
    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    Another American voice calls for cooperation with China.
    Considering he is the son of Chinese immigrants, I'm not surprised.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •