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Thread: What is the longest post-disaster impact that you find reasonable to prepare for?

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    What is the longest post-disaster impact that you find reasonable to prepare for?

    in apologies to the monsters for derailing their thread.
    Initial conditions - something bad (in my case, an earthquake) has significant initial impact on transportation, power & phones.
    Assuming no one is injured, how long is it reasonable to prepare to hold out?

    This almost certainly is different for each person or individual.

    We figure 6 weeks, with maybe stretching to 8 weeks, of food, water, and at least some ham radio communications. After 6 weeks, it would get really difficult. We live on a river, and have wood for fire to boil water, but obviously the difficulty and likelihood of lasting that long are reduced by a bunch if the badness hits during a really cold snap, as opposed to the summer.

    I'm interested in everyone's thoughts...

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    Zone Of Miltiple Breakdown In Economy Situation

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    Define "Hold out"? And what would you be holding out for? (A Hero)
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

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    Nice, NCN! Yes, holding out for the every day heroes that get stuff running again (Not always the government, look in to the Oso slide if you have time. The local loggers had a road in to the site before anything but helicopters could get there.) And the power co linemen - getting big trees off the power lines is plenty of fun, even if all of the bridges aren't closed until they can be inspected. I cross 3 bridges to get to town 9 miles away, and I don't even know how many between here and, say, Seattle, but it's lots.


    The basic idea is, get in communication and help out - our Ham radio emergency services nets are very flexible - if we're all ok, check in on the neighbors and help get their status out... we're very rural here, so if phones are down and someone does have a critical medical need, it's likely going to be Ham radio that gets that information out to the local triage command post.

    And by 'hold out', I really mean food, clean water, and keeping up at least partial communications. I can run the Ham shack on solar if we don't have road access to town. All of our county hospitals, fire stations, police stations and the 911 center have Ham radio operators assigned, and we try to minimize bridge crossings to get there. We we're actually in a western Washington flooding and snow situation a few years ago that had all passes closed, and most interstates flooded - food trucks were blocked for about a week.

    The FEMA exercise for Cascadia Rising figures most places will have services available within a few weeks, with some being out as long as 8. We try to plan for a max of 6 weeks (lots of peanut butter and canned food in the pantry, that rotates out to food banks every few weeks.

    And really, 'how long until we can get food to Sedro-Woolley' is not a definite number, and I'm not willing to go to a full-on year of dehydrated food bunker

    In areas where Ham operators can move, they will be staffing the local emergency centers. I'm really hoping to fall in to that category, should disaster strike.

    Oh, and we frequently have normal fall wind storms that knock out power for a week. Our worst was 2 weeks when it was really, really cold. That was when I set up the generator to run the well . And most of our power company folks are Ham operators as well, with company supplied radios in their trucks. So our emergency centers can talk to them directly if needed.
    Last edited by LookingSkyward; 2017-Feb-25 at 12:17 AM.

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    Very good!

    I think I have a can of Spam in the back of a cabinet somewhere. And a towel, I always know where my towel is.
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    and gin and tonic? Or fish...

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    Seriously, when we started with FEMA prep training, I figured, hey, If we're set for 6 weeks, and the earthquake waits till we're long gone but face another 2 week power outage, we're set, and I'm happy.
    Last edited by LookingSkyward; 2017-Feb-25 at 12:38 AM.

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    Peaches??

    That's my answer.
    Dip me in ink and toss me to the Poets.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    Peaches??

    That's my answer.

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    Back in the day, the 1938 Hurricane took out millions of trees, many of them were huge elms, oaks and chestnuts that had stood for centuries, laying one on top of another across the streets and roads of New England, of course wiping out the power lines and poles.
    Now...they were just coming out of the depression. No one had any money. There certainly were no chainsaws. Double bladed axes and
    two-manned crosscut saws were what they had. It's like cutting iron. They were months just trying to clear the roads so that ice trucks,
    milk wagons, people ...what ever could move about freely. Times are different today, but....without gasoline, you've got problems!!!!!!
    Imagine having 500,000 new roofs to build before november kicks in. No traffic lights.... a lot of " No ...... " . The list gets long.

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    The biggest issue for us might be my wife's medication. Depending on when in the refill cycle disaster strikes, she could be in big trouble quite quickly.
    Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noclevername View Post
    Very good!

    I think I have a can of Spam in the back of a cabinet somewhere. And a towel, I always know where my towel is.
    In case of Vogons?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ozduck View Post
    In case of Vogons?
    If you suck on parts of the towel, you get nutrients, so i gather..so it says in the good book.
    Formerly Frog march..............

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    Quote Originally Posted by danscope View Post
    Back in the day, the 1938 Hurricane took out millions of trees, many of them were huge elms, oaks and chestnuts that had stood for centuries, laying one on top of another across the streets and roads of New England, of course wiping out the power lines and poles.
    Now...they were just coming out of the depression. No one had any money. There certainly were no chainsaws. Double bladed axes and
    two-manned crosscut saws were what they had. It's like cutting iron. They were months just trying to clear the roads so that ice trucks,
    milk wagons, people ...what ever could move about freely. Times are different today, but....without gasoline, you've got problems!!!!!!
    Imagine having 500,000 new roofs to build before november kicks in. No traffic lights.... a lot of " No ...... " . The list gets long.
    That lept out at me. Old Stihl was exporting to the US in the early thirties--o, ok, maybe they were still two person saws

    But any two-person saw, in the right hands, is a wonder

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    Stealing the 'water' comments from the original thread... As a kid (from when I was about 8 to 10 years old) I lived on my grandparents homestead in Wyoming. No running water, outhouse, coal stove for heat. We did have electricity. I have NO desire to do that again, but I have plenty of water available here. Oh, and Riots? Almost never happen in rural settings, and assuming major bridge damage, any rioters that hike this far are going to be ready for a nap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grapes View Post
    But any two-person saw, in the right hands, is a wonder
    I've got one mounted on the wall over the door from the garage to the laundry room. SECURELY mounted. One of many interesting items I got from my in-laws' basement after they passed. F-I-L had collected lots of interesting junk. He had the saw with one handle, and a loose handle. So I put them together.

    Quote Originally Posted by LookingSkyward View Post
    Stealing the 'water' comments from the original thread... As a kid (from when I was about 8 to 10 years old) I lived on my grandparents homestead in Wyoming. No running water, outhouse, coal stove for heat. We did have electricity. I have NO desire to do that again, but I have plenty of water available here. Oh, and Riots? Almost never happen in rural settings, and assuming major bridge damage, any rioters that hike this far are going to be ready for a nap.
    Where in Wyoming? My grandparents moved to Buffalo less than 10 years after the Johnson County War. There's lots of coal around there, BTW.
    Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
    Where in Wyoming? My grandparents moved to Buffalo less than 10 years after the Johnson County War. There's lots of coal around there, BTW.
    Buffalo, just north of town on Rock Creek - 1st place north of the road and west of I-90 Still have a bunch of kin there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LookingSkyward View Post
    and gin and tonic? Or fish...
    I always keep a spare fish in my ear.

    For watching foreign TV shows. Or in case the dolphins come back.
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    When considering massive power outage situations, I am drawn to the logistics of supplies. How many people, for how many days, in what kind of weather, etc.

    What I am not drawn to, because it terrifies me, is the issue of safety and security from the tens of thousands of other people - desperate and violent with hunger and thirst - who didn't prepare the way I did.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LookingSkyward View Post
    Buffalo, just north of town on Rock Creek - 1st place north of the road and west of I-90 Still have a bunch of kin there.
    Awesome! I've no longer got any living kin there, just deceased ones. We had a family reunion there in '15 to lay a cousin to rest.
    Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grapes View Post
    That lept out at me. Old Stihl was exporting to the US in the early thirties--o, ok, maybe they were still two person saws

    But any two-person saw, in the right hands, is a wonder
    Hi Grapes, Yes, Stihl was around some places, but we were still trying to crawl out of the depression. Everyone was scraping to just get by.
    Try an axe on a dutch elm some time. Another problem was that there were few saws large enough to deal with the size of those old tree trunks. Saws used for firewood don't make it when you have to deal with a four foot tree trunk.
    No, it was a terrifying time to sort out, no question.
    Best regards,
    Dan
    Last edited by danscope; 2017-Feb-27 at 03:58 PM.

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    Long term power outages due to an earthquake isn't a big threat here but hurricanes have knocked out our power for about a week at a time. 2 weeks back during a big ice storm in 98'. Drinking water isn't a problem as we have 2 wells with a back-up generator for the pumps. Heating and cooling comforts would be a problem but we do have emergency gas logs for some relief in winter. The generator is for the basics only and gasoline on hand would be sufficient for a week or so. We could become vegetarians if need be.

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    I read that white rice will keep indefinitely, but whole rice degrades.
    Formerly Frog march..............

    She was only a farmer's daughter, but she was outstanding in her field.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
    Awesome! I've no longer got any living kin there, just deceased ones. ...
    Sooooo, we're back to Zombie Apocalypse?
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    Quote Originally Posted by danscope View Post
    Hi Grapes, Yes, Stihl was around some places, but we were still trying to crawl out of the depression. Everyone was scraping to just get by.
    Try an axe on a dutch elm some time. Another problem was that there were few saws large enough to deal with the size of those old tree trunks. Saws used for firewood don't make it when you have to deal with a four foot tree trunk.
    No, it was a terrifying time to sort out, no question.
    Best regards,
    Dan
    Um, you know those iron hard elm trees laying across roads are very movable if you have dynamite or even better, det cord? And no, I'm not talking about letting Clev do it. I've known a few people who were very good at "sculpting" with explosives.

    These people I'm talking about could splinter said elm and not even crack the asphalt.

    It's not that hard. Marines can do it! Why once I was on a construction crew that had to bring a San Francisco Victorian era Victorian mansion up to code. And part of the problem was the ground level under the house was too high. The removal of the dirt under the house was abruptly hindered by the fact that under the house wasn't dirt but a large outcrop of serpentine and related stone. The foreman was saying bad words because you bid one way if your going to be removing a couple dozen yards of dirt from under a house as opposed to jack hammering out a couple of dozen yards of rock, (while laying on your belly breathing through a dust mask as serpentine can be poisonous.)

    So he called a friend. A friend really good with det cord. I was asked not to show up for work one day and the next day everything was graveled under the house and I couldn't find a single bit of damage to the redwood floor joists. The only evidence was the smell. The noise didn't even draw the attention of the authorities. And only two neighbors wondered what the heck that noise was yesterday. Thought kids were playing with barrel bombs or something.

    And we got the 2.5 feet of clearance, just had to shovel out the breakage.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDon View Post
    Um, you know those iron hard elm trees laying across roads are very movable if you have dynamite or even better, det cord? And no, I'm not talking about letting Clev do it. I've known a few people who were very good at "sculpting" with explosives.
    Which is all very nice if you happen to have explosives and skilled friends handy. In a falling-down situation, most folks won't.

    And no, I'm not talking about letting Clev do it.
    Hey! ...No, wait, that's accurate.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

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    Clev, blasters aren't rare. The lumber industry produces hundreds of them.

    The area in question had a big lumber industry at the time.

    The trees were too valuable to blast would be my guess as to why it took so long.
    Time wasted having fun is not time wasted - Lennon
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDon View Post
    Clev, blasters aren't rare. The lumber industry produces hundreds of them.

    The area in question had a big lumber industry at the time.

    The trees were too valuable to blast would be my guess as to why it took so long.
    I've never lived in a lumber area.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

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    Heh - I do. and before Sept 11, getting some dynamite or det cord was as easy as knowing the right person and asking in the right way (usually swapping something in a bottle)... More difficult now...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noclevername View Post
    I've never lived in a lumber area.
    I guess you can be forgiven then.

    My family on both sides was all involved in the Washington and Oregon timber industry at one point or another. Even the sea faring ones.

    My Uncle Dick was the owner and captain of an ocean going tug and for years he pushed huge rafts of redwood trees from Seattle to Los Angeles during L.A's growing years. I think the History Channel covered it once. The flotilla of giant trees that were always kept over the horizon so as not to muck up the view, there were that many.
    Time wasted having fun is not time wasted - Lennon
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