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Thread: The Orville [potential spoilers]

  1. #241
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    I think they overlooked or maybe the writers intentionally ignored one argument that could have been used: different star systems have different zodiac constellations.
    Selden

  2. #242
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    Although I liked the underlying premise, I think the execution was kind of weak.

    Unfortunately, I have the same reaction to most episodes of The Orville.
    I may have many faults, but being wrong ain't one of them. - Jimmy Hoffa

  3. #243
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    I agree, it was weak, though I also liked the premise. Just how in sync would Earth years be? I mean, they had Kelly and Bortus because they said when their birthdays were. The others' could have been explained, by the Orville crew, to be nonsense, since the tooth analysis would have been synced to Earth years.

    Also, so the star came back; wouldn't that just mean those born under that sign from now on would be OK? The previous people were born while it was still "unlucky". Just to mess with them, I'd have used technology to mask a star in the "blessed" constellation. How's that for change?

    The shrug it off, ah, well, not our problem for a while was also not satisfying.

    CJSF

    P.S.
    Additional nitpick: stars were visible in the prison camp, despite the bright spotlights.
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  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Extravoice View Post
    Although I liked the underlying premise, I think the execution was kind of weak.

    Unfortunately, I have the same reaction to most episodes of The Orville.
    That sums up my feelings about the show as well. I like it well enough that I'm still watching it, but they are weak stories.

    In this case, along with the astrology bit, there was the little issue that they just landed without having a research team study the culture a few years first, or at least have a month or so of radio communication from orbit first. Of course something was going to happen when they landed, it was just a question of what.

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  5. #245
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    And what about all the guards they killed?
    Selden

  6. #246
    I am amazed Issacs people didn't make fully functional and programmed in multiple techniques.
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  7. #247
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    Issacs people is still a question mark, still in the dark about his home planet and how he and his AI population came about. At dinner with the doc she was close to asking him some questions about his origins but then she hesitated. A future episode may have them visit his home world and discover how he came about and what happened to his creators, From what I gather there are only AI presently there. It could make for an interesting episode with a warning theme for us humans.

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spacedude View Post
    Issacs people is still a question mark, still in the dark about his home planet and how he and his AI population came about. At dinner with the doc she was close to asking him some questions about his origins but then she hesitated. A future episode may have them visit his home world and discover how he came about and what happened to his creators, From what I gather there are only AI presently there. It could make for an interesting episode with a warning theme for us humans.
    Didn't they already do that on Futurama? Twice?
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  9. #249
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    Didn't they already do that on Futurama? Twice?
    It could be, but I never watched that show.
    Issac might just be an AI spy pretending to be doing research to determine if his home world might join the alliance, but his real mission is to seek out the Alliance's weaknesses for a future AI take over.....Muhahahahaha......

  10. #250
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    I keep expecting him to slip up and say "Resistance is futile" or something along those lines.

  11. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronin View Post
    I keep expecting him to slip up and say "Resistance is futile" or something along those lines.
    Isn't that what he said when bedding Carla?

  12. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Van Rijn View Post
    That sums up my feelings about the show as well. I like it well enough that I'm still watching it, but they are weak stories.
    Agreed. I've thought all the stories this season have been weak and disappointing. Still better than most stuff on TV, but that's a low hanging bar.
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  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Backroad Astronomer View Post
    I am amazed Issacs people didn't make fully functional and programmed in multiple techniques.
    I'm kind of bored with the whole "illogical, emotional humans" versus "logical, unemotional" AIs (robots, androids, computers, Vulcans, etc.) bit. And it is almost always the same conclusion: that the non-humans / non-biologicals are missing out on some mysterious advantage that doesn't allow them to grasp some important aspect to the Universe (or at least to the plot of that episode). It would be kind of fun if someone turned it around once, and showed something biologicals were missing out on.
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  14. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swift View Post
    I'm kind of bored with the whole "illogical, emotional humans" versus "logical, unemotional" AIs (robots, androids, computers, Vulcans, etc.) bit. And it is almost always the same conclusion: that the non-humans / non-biologicals are missing out on some mysterious advantage that doesn't allow them to grasp some important aspect to the Universe (or at least to the plot of that episode). It would be kind of fun if someone turned it around once, and showed something biologicals were missing out on.
    Well, I understand there's been some work on getting computers to actually write fiction stories. Once they get the bugs worked out, that's probably the kind of story the AI will write.
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  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeanF View Post
    Well, I understand there's been some work on getting computers to actually write fiction stories. Once they get the bugs worked out, that's probably the kind of story the AI will write.


    There is also the presumption that artificially intelligent beings will not have emotions. Given that we do not understand the mechanisms under which intelligence, sentience, or emotions arise in a being, I don't know that is a good assumption. Maybe emotions are a fundamental part of sentience.
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  16. #256
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    I've always thought that it was ironic how in TNG, there was this prevalent outward idea that Data had no emotions, but it was clear as the series wore on that he had his own version of them, and was quite emotive. They tried to mask it away as his "ethical program" when it related to making decisions, but how is that really any different that what human learn to do (or not do)?

    I thought it was baldly apparent from the shuttle crash episode that Dr. Finn and Isaac were gong to "have a thing". I think it might be intriguing to have them make a long term run of it, and have it work, with both Finn and Isaac knowing the limitations and complications, straight up.

    CJSF
    "What does it mean? (What does it mean?)
    What does it mean? (What does it mean?)
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  17. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJSF View Post
    I've always thought that it was ironic how in TNG, there was this prevalent outward idea that Data had no emotions, but it was clear as the series wore on that he had his own version of them, and was quite emotive. They tried to mask it away as his "ethical program" when it related to making decisions, but how is that really any different that what human learn to do (or not do)?
    Yes. The scene in "The Offspring" when Data goes to talk with Dr. Crusher about Lal, and the fact that he can give her attention, but that he is incapable of giving her love. Dr. Crusher says "now why do I find that hard to believe".

    And Lal herself develops emotions, without an emotion chip or anything special.
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  18. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    Didn't they already do that on Futurama? Twice?
    Quote Originally Posted by Spacedude View Post
    It could be, but I never watched that show. ...
    Heretic!

    That was a rhetorical couple of questions. Yes, they did. In one episode the crew had to deliver a package to a planet ruled by robots. Humans were forbidden and killed if found there. (Fear of a Bot Planet) In the other, the crew found themselves on a planet where things evolved overnight. The professor started a robot race which evolved from simple microbots to full sentience in a matter of days. (A Clockwork Origin)

    Try SyFy, Comedy Central or Hulu.
    Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by ignorance or stupidity.
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  19. #259
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    Heretic!
    Nyuk, I never got into sci-fi via cartoon style.....well, except for the animated Star Trek on Sat mornings later on. After missing 3 years the of original I'd watch anything trek.

  20. #260
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    It is just me, or has the show in Season 2 pretty much abandoned any pretense of action, science, space or technology in it plots?

    Every ep has been between 80% and 100% about relationships of the crew. In several eps you'd never even know they were on a spaceship without the interstitial exterior shots of the Orville.

  21. #261
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    Just a guess but the producers may be reacting to focus groups and fandom.


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  22. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveC426913 View Post
    In several eps you'd never even know they were on a spaceship without the interstitial exterior shots of the Orville.
    Sounds similar to another western, er, I mean sci-fi show, Firefly.

    [ducks]

    CJSF
    "What does it mean? (What does it mean?)
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  23. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJSF View Post
    ... [ducks] ...
    You'd better!

    Actually, on a well-written show with well-developed characters you can really care about, a character driven plot can work very well. Poorly written, shallow characters, characters you don't especially like ... not so much.
    Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by ignorance or stupidity.
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    You know, the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They donít alter their views to fit the facts. They alter the facts to fit their views.
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  24. #264
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    For some reason, I couldnít ever get interested in Firefly. Lots of people loved it, though.
    For character development, I loved Babylon 5.



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  25. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveC426913 View Post
    It is just me, or has the show in Season 2 pretty much abandoned any pretense of action, science, space or technology in it plots?

    Every ep has been between 80% and 100% about relationships of the crew. In several eps you'd never even know they were on a spaceship without the interstitial exterior shots of the Orville.
    Not, it isn't just you. I guess the astrology episode was a little science, but not much.

    I don't mind the character development episodes either, but there is a balance, and I think the balance has been off.

    Speaking of the astrology episode, I don't know why the Captain didn't ask that Bortus and Kelly be released to them. Tell the head of the planet that we don't want to burden you with their incarceration and we'll lock them up.

    And, as someone else said, it seems that the Union should have done a better job in prepping for first contact.
    Last edited by Swift; 2019-Feb-05 at 01:59 PM.
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  26. #266
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    There was a LOT wrong with the astrology episode, and I think any point MacFarlane was trying to make got muddied by the execution of it. The terrible bumbling of the first contact mission is further compounded by their solution to the problem, which will cause even more issues down the road, I'm sure.

    CJSF
    "What does it mean? (What does it mean?)
    What does it mean? (What does it mean?)
    I'll put it in my thinking machine"
    -They Might Be Giants, "Thinking Machine"


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  27. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swift View Post
    I was thinking about Moclan (Bortus' species). And yes, I am probably over-thinking this.
    Nah..it is just a reboot of "The Outcast" from TNG. If the Greek body worship cult had access to DNA manipulation tech--you'd wind up with something similar.

  28. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swift View Post
    I don't know why the Captain didn't ask that Bortus and Kelly be released to them. Tell the head of the planet that we don't want to burden you with their incarceration and we'll lock them up.
    : me, yelling this at the screen every five minutes :


    (It was a big plot hole. If your motivation for locking them up is that they're violent psychos, then we take them and your problem goes away.

    If you think that letting violent murderers go would cause unrest and doubt among the people, well then, imagine what keeping a bunch of aliens with dissenting ideas will do for unrest and doubt among the people?)
    Last edited by DaveC426913; 2019-Feb-06 at 12:52 AM.

  29. #269
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    I think the point they tried to make was that they didn't trust the entire ship/humans/Moclans/whomever because they/we tolerate having violent people running free and etc. I know, not the most compelling argument, but that's how I read it.

    CJSF
    "What does it mean? (What does it mean?)
    What does it mean? (What does it mean?)
    I'll put it in my thinking machine"
    -They Might Be Giants, "Thinking Machine"


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  30. #270
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    Umm... he DID ask them to release them back to the ship. The request was denied.

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