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Thread: We are not the most intelligent species in this universe

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    We are not the most intelligent species in this universe

    Have you ever considered that there are other species that are smarter than our species lurking around in the planet and even in the other planets? I strongly believe that. Sometimes, I would have visions that I am meeting this alien and it was telling me the ancient history of our planet. I even have hallucinations about this visions and I'm not really sure if I should be troubled or just embrace the visions that I am seeing. Anyone of you who also have this similar experience?

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    no I haven't had quite such experiences.

    But I wouldn't be surprised if species like dolphins were more intelligent than us....I would find it quite unlikely that homo sapien was the most intelligent species in the whole universe...although we may have other qualities that are also important as well as intelligence anyway.
    Last edited by Mudskipper; 2017-Nov-08 at 09:28 AM.
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    Orionspear, To some extent the relative intelligence of two species is dependent upon how we define intelligence - and that opens up a vipers nest of considerable size. Most thoughtful people would think humans more intelligent than dolphins, but how much of that perception is based upon placing undue importance on our success in developing technology. (And since that was made possible by our remarkable hands, to what extent is our intelligence partly a result of positive feedback with brain as those hands evolved?)

    So, no terrestrial organism more intelligent than humans, though in the past animal intelligence has been underestimated. Beyond the Earth, if there is intelligent life out there, then it would seem likely that some of it is more intelligent.

    As to the visions, if these are "material" rather than just vivid imaginings, you might want to consult your doctor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eclogite View Post
    Most thoughtful people would think humans more intelligent than dolphins, but how much of that perception is based upon placing undue importance on our success in developing technology. (And since that was made possible by our remarkable hands, to what extent is our intelligence partly a result of positive feedback with brain as those hands evolved?)
    “For instance, on the planet Earth, man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mudskipper View Post
    ... I would find it quite unlikely that homo sapien was the most intelligent species in the whole universe...although we may have other qualities that are also important as well as intelligence anyway.
    Like our charming personalities?

    Intelligence is relative and mutable. (Though I think the dolphins have it right.)

    I recall the anecdotal story of researchers who wanted to test the intelligence of the gorilla. They put a gorilla in a room with only three ways out and watched to see which way - if any - he would find. He found a fourth.

    The story may not be true, but the point is. If you judge intelligence by your yard stick (what makes you consider humans to be intelligent), your results will be biased.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orionspear View Post
    Have you ever considered that there are other species that are smarter than our species lurking around in the planet and even in the other planets? I strongly believe that. Sometimes, I would have visions that I am meeting this alien and it was telling me the ancient history of our planet. I even have hallucinations about this visions and I'm not really sure if I should be troubled or just embrace the visions that I am seeing. Anyone of you who also have this similar experience?
    Darn, I have to wipe you memory better next time.

    If you have theses visions while you are asleep or when you lying in bed and you cannot feel legs or arms you probably are have sleep paralysis. In this state you think you are awake but the parts of the brain that generate dreams are still going, a lot of alien abductions come from people in this state. But I am not medical professional just a person who has heard about this in the past.
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    I would have visions that I am meeting this alien and it was telling me the ancient history of our planet.
    I like ancient history, care to share any specifics?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orionspear View Post
    Have you ever considered that there are other species that are smarter than our species lurking around in the planet and even in the other planets? I strongly believe that. Sometimes, I would have visions that I am meeting this alien and it was telling me the ancient history of our planet. I even have hallucinations about this visions and I'm not really sure if I should be troubled or just embrace the visions that I am seeing. Anyone of you who also have this similar experience?
    In addition to what others have said, I just wanted to mention that knowing about our ancient history is not something that you would get from being intelligent--rather, it would require having the information. Just as a simple example, there are plenty of people with IQs lower than mine who know a whole lot more about say the history of baseball or basketball, simply because I never watch those sports and thus have no information about them.
    As above, so below

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orionspear View Post
    Have you ever considered that there are other species that are smarter than our species lurking around in the planet and even in the other planets? I strongly believe that. Sometimes, I would have visions that I am meeting this alien and it was telling me the ancient history of our planet. I even have hallucinations about this visions and I'm not really sure if I should be troubled or just embrace the visions that I am seeing. Anyone of you who also have this similar experience?

    In answer to the first part of your post (my bold) yes absolutely and I'm sure most of us on this forum have done. But since we have absolutely no other evidence than what we observe here on the Earth then the rest is all just fanciful speculation.

    Regarding other (known) species, as been previously mentioned it depends on what you deem as intelligent attributes. The are thousands of species of animals that are capable of things we can only dream of. But we are the only species that is capable of technology.

    Have you ever considered that we might be the most intelligent species in the universe, or rather, the most technologically advanced?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmocrazy View Post
    Have you ever considered that we might be the most intelligent species in the universe, or rather, the most technologically advanced?
    wouldn't it be a real downer, to be a mega intelligent species on some planet, where there were no fossil fuels....would the be stuck in a semi-industrial revolution that was powered by their equivalent of trees?
    Formerly Frog march..............

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmocrazy View Post
    Have you ever considered that we might be the most intelligent species in the universe, or rather, the most technologically advanced?
    Turtledove’s short story “The Road Not Taken” considered it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orionspear View Post
    Have you ever considered that there are other species that are smarter than our species lurking around in the planet and even in the other planets? I strongly believe that. Sometimes, I would have visions that I am meeting this alien and it was telling me the ancient history of our planet. I even have hallucinations about this visions and I'm not really sure if I should be troubled or just embrace the visions that I am seeing. Anyone of you who also have this similar experience?
    just for our solar system I would say "no" but it's quite possible that our intelligence spectrum (not our knowledge) was greater in times past.
    But aliens, no, not in my most likely set of scenarios. But maybe you should embrace your visions and write them down? I would if I had such visions.
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    Actually, your comments made total sense to me. I used to watch documentaries about how the Nazca lines are formed, ancient civilizations in Pero and how their biggest pyramids are accurately equidistant with one another, how ancient people were able to build such magnificent structures without having the technology we have today. It's just amazing and at the same time scary to comprehend that such knowledge is possible and within arm's length but we are just unaware of it. In regards to my dreams, I am prone to sleep paralysis. Sometimes I would have a dream in a dream in a dream, like triple inception, which always freak me out. I am currently undergoing online psychotherapy to help with this. My therapist said that I may have repressed memeries as to why I have dreams and nightmares about aliens and all that stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orionspear View Post
    Actually, your comments made total sense to me. I used to watch documentaries about how the Nazca lines are formed, ancient civilizations in Pero and how their biggest pyramids are accurately equidistant with one another, how ancient people were able to build such magnificent structures without having the technology we have today.
    I'm not sure exactly what "documentaries" you are watching, but if they are the typical ones shown on cable TV, such as on the History Channel, the vast majority of them are nonsense.
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    About humans being the most intelligent beings, I hope not, but quite the Asgard from stargate we have great potential, but here are days I doubt it.
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    The human brain is the single
    most complicated object in the universe

    As far as we know, the more complex a brain, the more intelligent is its possessor.

    Is it physiologically even possible to have an object more complex than the human brain?
    Last edited by wd40; 2017-Nov-11 at 09:32 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wd40 View Post
    Is it physiologically even possible to have an object more complex than the human brain?
    Two human brains.

    Grant Hutchison

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    I felt that we didn't have the biggest brain so I looked it up - Humans and Dolphins have similar brain weights of ~ 3 lbs, A Sperm Whale's brain weighs ~ 17 lbs. Quality over quantity, size doesn't appear to matter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wd40 View Post
    The human brain is the single
    most complicated object in the universe
    I've always been more than a little doubtful of that statement. It is pretty much stated as fact, with no indication of how one measures "complexity", and what exactly is the complexity of the brain. Sure, there are numbers thrown around about number of neurons and number of connections between neurons, but again, no indications of what exactly is complexity.

    And without that, nor a definition of "intelligence", saying that the more complex the brain the more intelligent it is, is meaningless.

    Lastly, is intelligence all it is cracked up to be? Even on Earth, depending on how one defines success of a species, intelligence may or may not be a key to that. Cockroaches have been on Earth for about 300 million years, and are about as widely distributed as humans. Which one is more successful?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mudskipper View Post
    wouldn't it be a real downer, to be a mega intelligent species on some planet, where there were no fossil fuels....would the be stuck in a semi-industrial revolution that was powered by their equivalent of trees?
    Charcoal has basically the same energy density as coal, ethanol has about half that of gasoline, biodiesel has about 78% that of diesel . . . they would hardly be doomed. Plus factory steam engines can run on concentrated solar heat. They might look on us as having been cursed with fossil fuels.
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    Certainly not. Plus, intelligence is way overrated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orionspear View Post
    Have you ever considered that there are other species that are smarter than our species lurking around in the planet and even in the other planets? I strongly believe that. Sometimes, I would have visions that I am meeting this alien and it was telling me the ancient history of our planet. I even have hallucinations about this visions and I'm not really sure if I should be troubled or just embrace the visions that I am seeing. Anyone of you who also have this similar experience?
    What kin d of intelligence and how is it measured?
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

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    We are not the most intelligent species in this universe.

    Well, that's obvious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumpy Bird View Post
    We are not the most intelligent species in this universe.

    Well, that's obvious.
    how is that obvious? What other species do you know of that is more intelligent?
    Formerly Frog march..............

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    I should not have latched onto intelligent as the main attribute. Perhaps we should look to our better angels. But I should not get into that.
    Many animals adapt to the needs of their environment quite well and if the limits of the environment prevent a technological civilization, that does not preclude intelligence.
    But you know, maybe we are the first. Even Carl Sagan acknowledged that.
    Given the time required for elements to be forged in the stars and the sheer distances of the universe to mix up the batter, intelligent life might be actually rare. And of course, civilizations can go BOOM!
    Granted technological civilizations do not necessarily mean intelligence.
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    Rare is a relative term, though. Compared to the sheer amount of hard vacuum that exists, stars and planets are rare.

    Compared to how much of the Universe is lifeless, life itself is pretty rare even if it turns out to exist on many worlds. 'Intelligent' technological civilizations will probably be extremely rare in both space and time even if nearly every world that can develop them, does so whenever possible.
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    I have vast amounts of experience with a myriad of small animals.

    Underestimating other animal's intelligence is what we do best. Including our own.

    And why do people go large all the time? Ever spend time watching jumping spiders? They have incredibly dense neuronal tissue in their main nerve ganglia.

    The opposite but still disturbing are box jellies. They are showing us neuronets are something humans have pshawed for way too long. That conversation started when somebody realized why does something "without a brain" have four *highly* complex eyes?

    The captive ones were put through tests and not only do they avoid obstacles they also remembered previous tests! Not bad for a jellyfish!
    Last edited by BigDon; 2017-Nov-27 at 05:06 PM. Reason: Spelin'!
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    sicut vis videre esto
    When we realize that patterns don't exist in the universe, they are a template that we hold to the universe to make sense of it, it all makes a lot more sense.
    Originally Posted by Ken G

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDon View Post
    Ever spend time watching jumping spiders? They have incredibly dense neuronal tissue in their main nerve ganglia.
    They need that to choreograph their dance moves.
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    Not to mention brainless slime molds!
    As above, so below

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