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Thread: What makes you more angry? The fact that belief in the Flat Earth is up...

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by parallaxicality View Post
    or that belief in the idea of Galileo/Columbus discovering the world was round still hasn't gone away?
    Yeah - that should have been taught as "round-ish" from the get go.
    Depending on whom you ask, everything is relative.

  2. #32
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    maybe these two beliefs could be used to discuss the ideas of how theories, and hypothesis work, and the concept of proof.

    How the world being a spherical kind of object being a theory, which has gained more and more evidence, until it has become a bit hard to argue seriously against..how people collected evidence for it over thousands of years, and maybe talk about how one, if one was so inclined, to gather evidence for the hypothesis that the world was flat.
    Formerly Frog march..............

  3. #33
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    The below podcast has an interview with one of the "leaders" of the new flat Earth movement. Mostly no matter what you say he finds a dodge.
    http://ohnopodcast.com/
    ...I'm still free, you can't take the sky from me.
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by astrotimer View Post
    The below podcast has an interview with one of the "leaders" of the new flat Earth movement. Mostly no matter what you say he finds a dodge.
    http://ohnopodcast.com/
    I suppose that could show that he is a genuine believer in a flat Earth. When you really believe something, you will usually find a way around contradictory arguments.
    Formerly Frog march..............

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mudskipper View Post
    and maybe talk about how one, if one was so inclined, to gather evidence for the hypothesis that the world was flat.
    I thought I read somewhere that most of the "proofs" used by flat earthers were thought up by debaters who thought it would be fun to argue for a clearly wrong position as a rhetorical exercise, and then people who genuinely believed it and missed the nuance latched on to them. In which case, this would be part of how we got into this problem to begin with.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by KaiYeves View Post
    I thought I read somewhere that most of the "proofs" used by flat earthers were thought up by debaters who thought it would be fun to argue for a clearly wrong position as a rhetorical exercise, and then people who genuinely believed it and missed the nuance latched on to them. In which case, this would be part of how we got into this problem to begin with.
    yes, I remember the debating club at school used to like debating ridiculous things, which is why I only went once....why, when there are so many worthwhile things to debate, do they do this? I can sort of see that arguing a case that you don't believe may be a useful exercise...especially if someone wanted to be a lawyer.
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  7. #37
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    Yes, a skilled debater can frame an argument that is bad in subtle ways in rhetorical razzle dazzle that can be a lot of work to decipher and refute.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mudskipper View Post
    yes, I remember the debating club at school used to like debating ridiculous things, which is why I only went once....why, when there are so many worthwhile things to debate, do they do this? I can sort of see that arguing a case that you don't believe may be a useful exercise...especially if someone wanted to be a lawyer.
    Maybe because debating ridiculous things is politically neutral, so avoids that minefield?
    Calm down, have some dip. - George Carlin

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glom View Post
    Columbus was a horrible person. Even 15th century Spain said he was horrible.
    I did some reading on the topic, a semester ago. One of the more amusing tidbits was it was felt that if Columbus was more competent, he would have been more horrible, so the Spanish crown took steps to stop that sort of thing. That isn't just a backhanded insult, they gave him the other side of the hand, too.
    Solfe, Dominus Maris Pavos.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkepticJ View Post
    Maybe because debating ridiculous things is politically neutral, so avoids that minefield?
    I guess that might have been it.

    I was always up for controversial discussions when I was a kid, and I think I was quite interested in developing a more sophisticated world view...so I thought that debating how many invisible unicorns there were on a pin head was pretty pointless.....the trouble with debating useless things, is that it only develops a narrow skill set of thinking skills, I think maybe...like playing chess does; useful, but maybe dangerous as well.
    Formerly Frog march..............

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken G View Post
    Perhaps the situation is rather muddled in the current curriculum, I'll bet a lot depends on the teachers you happen to get. Hopefully people are starting to get the iota of cultural awareness required to recognize that Columbus' "discovery" was very fortunate for one population and disastrously unfortunate for another. That's really just a historical fact that even children can be made aware of without destroying Thanksgiving or other cultural holidays. Except Columbus Day, of course.
    Ken G, Ferdinand Magellan's ships performed the first global circumnavigation and proved the earth was round without a shadow of a doubt.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaurieAG View Post
    Ken G, Ferdinand Magellan's ships performed the first global circumnavigation and proved the earth was round without a shadow of a doubt.
    yes but he could also have sailed around a circle on a disc, or an hemisphere sputnik 1 was pretty convincing but then I'm a sucker for science stories, I actually believe men walked on the moon and took pictures.
    sicut vis videre esto
    When we realize that patterns don't exist in the universe, they are a template that we hold to the universe to make sense of it, it all makes a lot more sense.
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  13. #43
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    I wonder if anyone in history, before space travel, ever claimed to have gone to the moon...maybe it is some kind of forgotten cultural meme.
    Formerly Frog march..............

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkepticJ View Post
    Maybe because debating ridiculous things is politically neutral, so avoids that minefield?
    Nah. Ridiculous things are often political. It's all about developing skill to make oneself seem smarter than the opposition, and if a debater can do that with a ridiculous topic, it boosts their ego. That's my observation from a year in collegiate debate.
    Et tu BAUT? Quantum mutatus ab illo.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mudskipper View Post
    I wonder if anyone in history, before space travel, ever claimed to have gone to the moon...maybe it is some kind of forgotten cultural meme.
    Edgar Allan Poe did, kind of: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_...ne_Hans_Pfaall

  16. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mudskipper View Post
    I wonder if anyone in history, before space travel, ever claimed to have gone to the moon...
    Almost certainly, considering how many insane people have existed across history.
    Calm down, have some dip. - George Carlin

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