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Thread: Project Blue Book 2.0?

  1. #61
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    I'd still contend that the quality of evidence is well below what I personally would consider acceptable. After decades of claims I would have expected at least a few high quality photographs or film / video, but as I said before, it seems to be sadly lacking. This was one of the key issues which changed my opinion on the matter.
    Even clearer photographs probably wouldn't mean very much as far evidence of aliens is concerned. After the initial excitement of any new pics wear off those too would eventually be cast into doubt by debunkers as being either hoaxes or secret experimental craft of the world's defense agencies. The goal posts for proof of aliens will continue shifting around until either alien DNA or alien Tech is analyzed by multiple independent laboratories and finally declared as legit on the world stage. It's never been easy to try to prove alien contact as all eyewitnesses, photographs, radar contacts, landing marks, EM effects, abduction claims, etc. come into question as they should. It's probably the most challenging issue to ever resolve in mankind's history.

  2. #62
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    I think Carl Sagan's statement that "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" applies in this situation. It isn't that the goalposts are moving but rather that people are forgetting to be stringent enough to begin with.

    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Extrao...inary_evidence
    Selden

  3. #63
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    Yes I agree Selden, with you and Sagan. The goal posts have always been in the same spot, bad metaphor? maybe it's just that we keep thinking that the next clear pics, or if only one more radar contact was to confirm, etc. that the aim is for the 10 yard line to score confirmation, a field goal won't do it. Speaking of which, aren't there some bowl games this weekend?........never thought that I'd ever deflex my own ufo thread to sports.
    ;-)

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by molesworth View Post
    Ah, perhaps I should have been more specific...

    By "natural", I meant due to naturally occurring causes, either from earth or from space, but not non-human intelligence. (Note - I'm also not ruling out human intelligence as a source, e.g. experimental military aircraft etc.)

    I'd still contend that the quality of evidence is well below what I personally would consider acceptable. After decades of claims I would have expected at least a few high quality photographs or film / video, but as I said before, it seems to be sadly lacking. This was one of the key issues which changed my opinion on the matter.
    You seem to be assuming that flying saucers employ conventional technology. If that were so, then they wouldn't be here. Start thinking outside the box, for a change.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonesy987 View Post
    You seem to be assuming that flying saucers employ conventional technology. If that were so, then they wouldn't be here. Start thinking outside the box, for a change.
    Everybody has a box. Some people have a box within aliens must exist, others one within which the must not, and others that they might or might not. I havenít seen much evidence of you thinking outside your box.
    As above, so below

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spacedude View Post
    After the initial excitement of any new pics wear off those too would eventually be cast into doubt by debunkers as being either hoaxes or secret experimental craft of the world's defense agencies.
    One problem is that even for a person like me, who is not a debunker but interested in the issue is that there is no simple test to see if an artificial craft was made on earth or not. Presumably the laws of physics operate the same way throughout the universe. You might think that the size would give it away, but we ourselves build vehicles of many different sizes. Finding an unknown material would not necessarily mean itís alien. People hundreds of years ago finding plastic would be perplexed, but it might not be alien.
    As above, so below

  7. #67
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    I suspect this story will slowly peter out. The public gets quickly bored and moves on. The whole story reminds me of the Mexican army Campeche sighting, which for a while fooled lots of people, until the oil field solutin was find. Same type of fuzzy video. Better images are needed from reliable sources.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by gzhpcu View Post
    I suspect this story will slowly peter out. The public gets quickly bored and moves on. The whole story reminds me of the Mexican army Campeche sighting, which for a while fooled lots of people, until the oil field solutin was find. Same type of fuzzy video. Better images are needed from reliable sources.
    I suspect you're wrong. This is just the start of the disclosure that has been talked about for the last few months. You need to get out of your echo chamber now and again. It'll do you good.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonesy987 View Post
    I suspect you're wrong. This is just the start of the disclosure that has been talked about for the last few months. You need to get out of your echo chamber now and again. It'll do you good.
    Time will tell. I just hope better evidence will show up.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonesy987 View Post
    I suspect you're wrong. This is just the start of the disclosure that has been talked about for the last few months. You need to get out of your echo chamber now and again. It'll do you good.
    I suspect gzhpcu is correct. When I was a teenager, back in the 70's, I was a true believer in UFO's, even had a subscription to "UFO Report" magazine for 3-4 years. Even back then disclosure was only a year or two away. Eventually, I became an extreme skeptic when nothing ever happened. In a year or two, this will all be forgotten, except by the true believers and conspiracy theorists.

  11. #71
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    I think most of us went through a phase in our youth where ufos appeared exciting. As we got more sophisticated we felt let down.

  12. #72
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    Yup. I remember being fascinated by detailed drawings of cigar-shaped UFO spacecraft way-back-when I was in high school. I'm sure it was in a hard-backed book that I'd checked out of the school's library. Unfortunately, I don't recall the title or author.
    Selden

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonesy987 View Post
    You seem to be assuming that flying saucers employ conventional technology. If that were so, then they wouldn't be here. Start thinking outside the box, for a change.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonesy987 View Post
    I suspect you're wrong. This is just the start of the disclosure that has been talked about for the last few months. You need to get out of your echo chamber now and again. It'll do you good.
    Jonesy987

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  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superluminal View Post
    I suspect gzhpcu is correct. When I was a teenager, back in the 70's, I was a true believer in UFO's, even had a subscription to "UFO Report" magazine for 3-4 years. Even back then disclosure was only a year or two away. Eventually, I became an extreme skeptic when nothing ever happened. In a year or two, this will all be forgotten, except by the true believers and conspiracy theorists.
    Who said/claimed that disclosure was only a year or two away back then? Links would be appreciated.

  15. #75
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    Back then everything was on paper. I suspect a lot of predictions like that wouldn't have been transferred to digital media.
    Selden

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by selden View Post
    Back then everything was on paper. I suspect a lot of predictions like that wouldn't have been transferred to digital media.
    Predictions by whom. Please be more specific.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonesy987 View Post
    Predictions by whom. Please be more specific.
    I have no idea. That's why I wrote "predictions like that" -- vague suggestions that something might have happened soon.

    There are lots of things that happened when I was a kid that never, ever will be digitized and now exist only in the decaying memories of us old fogies.
    Selden

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by eburacum45 View Post
    Nonsense.
    Here's an interesting analysis of the so-called GIMBAL video we discussed earlier. This appears to be a distant plane seen from a rapidly turning plane and a camera that rotates in the opposite direction to the turn in order to maintain infra-red lock.
    https://www.metabunk.org/nyt-gimbal-...3/#post-216259

    As I suggested the camera was looking sideways as the plane turned; this was a consequence of the camera's attempts to keep the source in lock.
    That was my first thought too, when I looked at that clip. Tracking another aircraft, which manouvers. The odd thing is that it's not clear at all that the commentary from the pilots is about what shows on the screen. It might just as well be something they see through the canopy (where is that "whole fleet" of things they speak of?).
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  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by gzhpcu View Post
    I think most of us went through a phase in our youth where ufos appeared exciting. As we got more sophisticated we felt let down.
    Judging from most of the replies in this thread, my phase was a little earlier than most, around Age 9, but yup, I went through this process, too.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonesy987 View Post
    Who said/claimed that disclosure was only a year or two away back then? Links would be appreciated.
    I can't remember the names of UFO investigators from way back then. The magazine ceased publication long ago and I have long since lost my collection. But I remember reading that disclosure wasn't far off. That's one of the reasons I lost interest in the subject. Nothing significant ever happened. You can find a few old copies on Amazon, good luck.

    https://www.amazon.com/Report-Magazi.../dp/B004G3XGVM

    eBay might be a better place to look.
    https://www.ebay.com/i/272992945884?...D1405621587405
    Last edited by Superluminal; 2018-Jan-01 at 01:19 AM.

  21. #81
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Here is an old 1957 magazine on ufos. It concludes saying “...with diligent research, patient analyses, constructve investgation, and the ultimate cooperation of official investigative bodies, the UFO picture will slowly but surely resolve into something of which we may now perceive only murkily”… We are still far away...

  22. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by gzhpcu View Post
    I think most of us went through a phase in our youth where ufos appeared exciting. As we got more sophisticated we felt let down.
    Just to avoid the impression of condescension, I would want to change sophisticated to jaded. I think that you, like I, would love to find out that there really are UFOs.
    As above, so below

  23. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jens View Post
    Just to avoid the impression of condescension, I would want to change sophisticated to jaded. I think that you, like I, would love to find out that there really are UFOs.
    True, just do not want to delude myself.

  24. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jens View Post
    Just to avoid the impression of condescension, I would want to change sophisticated to jaded. I think that you, like I, would love to find out that there really are UFOs.
    There really are UFOs. There vast majority of which have perfectly mundane origins. Some UFOs are inter stellar. Some are inter galactic. Some are inter dimensional. Some are time travel devices.

    Things will become a lot clearer over the coming weeks as disclosure picks up pace.

  25. #85
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    What if it doesn't? Let's say that nothing changes in the next six weeks. What will your opinion be then?
    _____________________________________________
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    "Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

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    "I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

  26. #86
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    Project Blue Book 2.0?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonesy987 View Post
    Some are inter galactic. Some are inter dimensional. Some are time travel devices.
    (Citation Required)

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  27. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonesy987 View Post
    There really are UFOs. There vast majority of which have perfectly mundane origins. Some UFOs are inter stellar. Some are inter galactic. Some are inter dimensional. Some are time travel devices.

    Things will become a lot clearer over the coming weeks as disclosure picks up pace.
    Weíll look forward to hearing it.
    As above, so below

  28. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jens View Post
    Just to avoid the impression of condescension, I would want to change sophisticated to jaded. I think that you, like I, would love to find out that there really are UFOs.
    Obligatory annoying pedant "Of course there are UFOs, nobody denies that it's possible to see things you can't recognize in the sky, 'UFO' doesn't mean 'alien'." comment.

  29. #89
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    "Aliens" from far away seems to be the accepted source for certain ufos, particularly involving the abduction cases (which are always filed away into the delusion/hoax folder). I prefer a more general description like "Strange visitors of unknown origin". This covers just about everything with the exception that some ufos may be earthbound such as time travelers from our future, a prehistoric civilization that purposely remains hidden from today's world, or an unknown life form that stealthily lives in our atmosphere and/or oceans.

  30. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spacedude View Post
    "Aliens" from far away seems to be the accepted source for certain ufos, particularly involving the abduction cases (which are always filed away into the delusion/hoax folder). I prefer a more general description like "Strange visitors of unknown origin". This covers just about everything with the exception that some ufos may be earthbound such as time travelers from our future, a prehistoric civilization that purposely remains hidden from today's world, or an unknown life form that stealthily lives in our atmosphere and/or oceans.
    Agreed.

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