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Thread: what is causing the Moon to move away from Earth?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hornblower View Post
    None of which has anything to do with whether it migrates in or out from tidal interaction with its planet.
    After getting out from the unique oven of the nature, the round moons and planets must drift in one direction.
    Please try to confirm it by real measurements.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Lee View Post
    Let me use the following question:

    How do you set a round bread.

    Normally it is expected to set it in the oven.
    However, after you have it, cut it to many many pieces.
    Now, can you reassemble those pieces into the same nice round bread?

    In the same token.
    If you wish to have a round moon - you have to use a very unique oven of the nature.
    If later on, you cut it to pieces and reassemble it - it will look like a reassemble round bread...
    You will get a broken moon.
    That's a terrible analogy, given that spherical moons and planets have all been assembled from smaller parts in the first instance, rather than baked in a spherical mould.
    The spherical shape is a result of hydrostatic equilibrium.

    Grant Hutchison
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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Lee View Post
    After getting out from the unique oven of the nature, the round moons and planets must drift in one direction.
    Why?

    Grant Hutchison
    Blog

    Note:
    During life, we all develop attitudes and strategies to make our interactions with others more pleasant and useful. If I mention mine here, those comments can apply only to myself, my experiences and my situation. Such remarks cannot and should not be construed as dismissing, denigrating, devaluing or criticizing any different attitudes and strategies that other people have evolved as a result of their different situation and different experiences.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by grant hutchison View Post
    The spherical shape is a result of hydrostatic equilibrium.

    Grant Hutchison
    Yes, that is perfectly correct!

    However, where most of new born stars activity is taking place in the galaxy?
    Try to find it and you get the answer.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by grant hutchison View Post
    Why?

    Grant Hutchison
    Based on real measurements.
    So far we have only verified two round objects in the whole Universe.
    Those two objects are drifting outwards.
    If I understand it correctly, all round planets in the solar system are drifting outwards.

    Please try to find just one round planet or moon which is drifting inwards.

    Do we know if the Sun is drifting outwards or inwards from the center of the galaxy?
    Last edited by Dave Lee; 2018-Jan-06 at 05:48 AM.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by George View Post
    Yet not if it will diminish the impact he wants to have with his ideas for some future SF publication, which I think is the reason. [I think he did mention this somewhere but I can't seem to find it off-hand.]
    It seems pretty clear to me that he is trying to make some ATM claim, but Im having trouble figuring out exactly what it is. Perhaps something about dark matter and galactic curves.
    As above, so below

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Lee View Post
    So far we have only verified two round objects in the whole Universe.
    This depends, I suppose, on your definition of "round".

    I would have thought that pretty much all stars and planets were round, part from some slight oblateness due to rotation. And surface features on solid planets.

    What are the two things you believe are the "only two round objects in the whole Universe"?

  8. #68
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    I think he means two round objects which have been observed to
    migrate away from their primary: the Moon and the Earth. I haven't
    read any linked references in this thread. As far as I know, the Moon
    is the only object where a change in the size of the orbit has actually
    been measured. For Earth and other moons, changes in the orbital
    periods have probably been measured.

    -- Jeff, in Minneapolis
    http://www.FreeMars.org/jeff/

    "I find astronomy very interesting, but I wouldn't if I thought we
    were just going to sit here and look." -- "Van Rijn"

    "The other planets? Well, they just happen to be there, but the
    point of rockets is to explore them!" -- Kai Yeves

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Lee View Post
    Yes, that is perfectly correct!

    However, where most of new born stars activity is taking place in the galaxy?
    Try to find it and you get the answer.
    No, I'm not going to participate in your Socratic dialogue.
    State your idea clearly.

    Grant Hutchison
    Blog

    Note:
    During life, we all develop attitudes and strategies to make our interactions with others more pleasant and useful. If I mention mine here, those comments can apply only to myself, my experiences and my situation. Such remarks cannot and should not be construed as dismissing, denigrating, devaluing or criticizing any different attitudes and strategies that other people have evolved as a result of their different situation and different experiences.

  10. #70
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    Nonsense alert.

  11. #71
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    As a result of rigorous exercises in physics for centuries, we are convinced to a moral certainty that Neptune and Triton obey the same laws of gravitation as the Earth and the Moon. That is, the satellite will raise a pair of tidal bulges on the planet. The planet's rotation will drag the bulges away from a line through the centers of the bodies, in the direction of the planet's rotation. The displaced bulges will cause a small gravitational tug on the satellite in the direction of the planet's rotation. In this case, since Triton's orbital motion is in the opposite direction from that gravitational tug, Triton is expected to be slowed down and to spiral in gradually. Any idea that it should do otherwise is an uberextraordinary idea which requires uberextraordinary evidence. In the absence of precise enough observations to detect changes in the orbit, we are thoroughly justified in expecting Triton to spiral in.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Root View Post
    IAs far as I know, the Moon
    is the only object where a change in the size of the orbit has actually
    been measured.
    This new paper uses radio ranging of MESSENGER to measure the expansion of Mercury's orbit (and limit non-Einstein gravitational effects). They quote about 4-sigma significance on the orbital expansion, and say the result is consistent with the solar mass loss calculated from solar wind plus radiation.

    I keep being amazed by what precision measurements enable.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hornblower View Post
    As a result of rigorous exercises in physics for centuries, we are convinced to a moral certainty that Neptune and Triton obey the same laws of gravitation as the Earth and the Moon. That is, the satellite will raise a pair of tidal bulges on the planet. The planet's rotation will drag the bulges away from a line through the centers of the bodies, in the direction of the planet's rotation. The displaced bulges will cause a small gravitational tug on the satellite in the direction of the planet's rotation. In this case, since Triton's orbital motion is in the opposite direction from that gravitational tug, Triton is expected to be slowed down and to spiral in gradually. Any idea that it should do otherwise is an uberextraordinary idea which requires uberextraordinary evidence. In the absence of precise enough observations to detect changes in the orbit, we are thoroughly justified in expecting Triton to spiral in.
    Yes.

    To the best of current knowledge, what is happening with Neptune and Triton is essentially the reverse of what is happening with Earth and the Moon: while the latter is moving away, the former is moving closer to its parent planet, for the same reason that Grant Hutchison outlined earlier.
    Of all the sciences cultivated by mankind, Astronomy is acknowledged to be, and undoubtedly is, the most sublime, the most interesting, and the most useful. For, by knowledge derived from this science, not only the bulk of the Earth is discovered, but our very faculties are enlarged with the grandeur of the ideas it conveys, our minds exalted above their low contracted prejudices. - James Ferguson

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