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Thread: has the brain drain from the West begun?

  1. #1
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    has the brain drain from the West begun?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mudskipper
    what, I wonder, will happen to America, when China starts to offer higher wages to skilled and educated people than America can offer. Can America afford a brain drain considering what Noclevername said?
    https://forum.cosmoquest.org/showthread.php?59009-America-s-image-abroad&p=990513#post990513



    China is issuing long-term visas to lure highly skilled people from abroad to work in the country.
    The multi-entry visas will be valid for between five and 10 years, according to state media.
    Technology leaders, entrepreneurs and scientists from in-demand sectors are among those eligible to apply.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-4...alflow_twitter
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  2. #2
    One problem with going to China their intellectual property laws which could prevent some to go there. The brains can work where ever they want to nowadays. Some really skilled workers could do well there as China is building their infrastructure.
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  3. #3
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    ....when China starts to offer higher wages to skilled and educated people....
    If all other things were equal, this could result in a bit of a "brain drain." But all other things are not equal. As in civil rights, for one.
    Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cougar View Post
    If all other things were equal, this could result in a bit of a "brain drain." But all other things are not equal. As in civil rights, for one.
    One should include the possibility of religiously or ethnically based restrictions on immigration; as an the US had the latter from the mid-1920s, when US immigration laws were re-written specifically to exclude people from just about everyplace except Northern and Western Europe, into the 1960s. Also, people will move into countries will poorer civil rights if they believe they are in a protected group, e.g.,, whites moving into apartheid South Africa or many parts of the US before the Civil Rights Act.
    Last edited by swampyankee; 2018-Jan-05 at 01:16 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by astrotimer View Post
    One problem with going to China their intellectual property laws which could prevent some to go there. The brains can work where ever they want to nowadays. Some really skilled workers could do well there as China is building their infrastructure.
    I believe the ways current IP laws are enforced in the West are not particularly protective of individual IP rights; witness the industry of patent trolling. In other words, individual IP rights largely don't exist unless that individual has very deep pockets.

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  6. #6
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    All,

    This is more a caution, rather than a warning. This is potentially a very political topic. Discussing the facts of immigration is probably OK, but if we cannot get into policy, patent law, human rights issues, etc. If that means this topic can't be discussed on CQ, so be it.

    Let's be thoughtful in posting in this thread.
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    If money is the only thing driving a person's motivation to immigrate to another country, then that other country can have them.

    If that was an actual threat then any country with an exchange rate of better than 30 to 1 would have drained us dry.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDon View Post
    If money is the only thing driving a person's motivation to immigrate to another country, then that other country can have them.

    If that was an actual threat then any country with an exchange rate of better than 30 to 1 would have drained us dry.
    There's more to it than that, one of the items being expected opportunities. Most people emigrate for that ill-defined "better life," which may be primarily economic or political or social, but I suspect some is inertia, where people have jobs working at foreign offices and just stay.

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    I suppose a brain-drain would also include just working for another country while remaining in one's own.
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  10. #10
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    The brain drain from the rest of the world to the west has definitely been slowing down, largely because of the rapid development of China. Perhaps it will reverse, and brains will flow from the west back up through the drain and into the basin again.

  11. #11
    There has always been a drain away from my county mostly because he one the highest unemployment rates. Some my grandmothers siblings moved to Ontario in sixties and seventies to work in car plants. My mother and father tried it around the time I was born. My mothers goddaughter lives out in Alberta. A lot of my school friends no live in other parts of the country and the world.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDon View Post

    If that was an actual threat then any country with an exchange rate of better than 30 to 1 would have drained us dry.
    Could you explain what you mean by an exchange rate better than 30 to 1 means? Are you meaning the nominal rate or are you meaning PPP or something like that?
    As above, so below

  13. #13
    This is more of a tip do not pick on the smart kids, because they will leave and they are usually the ones that own companies or invent things. I know several people who I went to school with that really don't want much to do with their hometown because of bullying.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jens View Post
    Could you explain what you mean by an exchange rate better than 30 to 1 means? Are you meaning the nominal rate or are you meaning PPP or something like that?
    Well, if I don't know what PPP is, I guess I must mean the other.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDon View Post
    Well, if I don't know what PPP is, I guess I must mean the other.
    So the issue is, for example, the rate of Japanese yen to dollars is like 120 to 1, so you would think that people would be attracted to Japan for that reason. But in reality, 120 yen will only buy you a candy bar, just like a dollar will only buy you a candy bar in the US. So the value of 120 yen and a dollar is basically equivalent. The problem is really that when the exchange rate goes up or down, there isn't time to compensate and so you get a boost. I'm not sure if that makes sense.
    As above, so below

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDon View Post
    Well, if I don't know what PPP is, I guess I must mean the other.
    PPP means purchasing power parity, which means that you adjust the exchange rate to reflect real prices (for example, land prices might be high due to limited land area, leading to higher rents). So for example, just as an illustration perhaps 1 dollar will get you 0.8 Swiss francs, but actually ten dollars will buy you lunch in the US but no way that 8 Swiss francs will buy you lunch in Switzerland, so in reality 1 dollar isn't really equivalent.
    As above, so below

  17. #17
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    Oh, which one is;

    You exchange $50 dollars for the local currency, eat very well, drink 'til painful excess, tip like a king AND dance all night to live music, exchange back in the morning and have $45 dollars change?

    'Cause that's the one I mean.
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  18. #18
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    Both China and India have benefited from the return of their talents to the homeland to take advantage of the booming economies. The two countries are now moving to the next stage where they are trying to entice foreign talented individuals to move to their shores.

    So the answer the question, yes talented individuals are moving from the West to the East. With economies growing at 6+ % a year, this is where there is bound to have the sort of challenges and opportunities these people thrive on.

    The east not only has fast growing economies but also the consumers for the high tech products. Just look at the statistics of where the majority of computers, smartphones of cars are being sold.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDon View Post
    If that was an actual threat then any country with an exchange rate of better than 30 to 1 would have drained us dry.
    It is a pleasure to read such insightful analysis at a board where I may also read about how economics is a pseudoscience!

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDon View Post
    Well, if I don't know what PPP is
    I picked up on that.

    The exchange rate by itself is essentially meaningless. One US dollar is worth roughly 22,700 Vietnamese Dong. However, if one concludes from this that because a bottle of Coca-cola costs about $1 in the US, that if only one were in Vietnam, one could enjoy a nice, cool, refreshing drink for only $0.000044, because of the exchange rate, then there is an unpleasant surprise waiting for that person upon arrival in Vietnam.

    Just because something costs $10 in the US, does not mean it costs 10 in every local currency everywhere in the world. One US dollar is currently worth about 112 Japanese Yen, which is several times beyond the 30 to 1 rate you cite. If you think this means things are cheap in Japan, I suggest having a visit. A thing that costs a few US dollars may cost several hundred, or maybe thousands, of yen, and quite possibly will cost more than it does in the US, despite the 112:1 exchange rate.

    Citing an exchange rate of 30-1 or more in isolation is completely meaningless. If that's how it works, then just announce that the official currency of the US is no longer the dollar, but the penny, so all the exchange rates will be multiplied by one hundred. A British pound will be worth 135 US pennies, a Euro will be worth 119 US pennies, and a Chinese yuan will be worth 15.33 US pennies. That should give the US a huge economic advantage, don't you think?

    A lot of people at this board are in serious need of a refresher course in Pseudoscience 101.

  20. #20
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    Yo Clueless, I'm relating personal experience from forty years ago that didn't include a junior college level econ course prior to getting thrown out onto Magsaisai Blvd.

    Not something I'm imagining by counting on my fingers and wishing outloud.

    Some people on this board could use a little getting out of the classroom too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by clueless View Post
    A lot of people at this board are in serious need of a refresher course in Pseudoscience 101.
    Quote Originally Posted by BigDon View Post
    Some people on this board could use a little getting out of the classroom too.
    Everyone stop making it personal and take it down a notch, or the moderators will give a refresher course in Rule 2
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