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Thread: Kessel Run

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJSF View Post
    Wikipedia says it was redefined to to exactly
    648000/pi astronomical units, which is approximately 3.26ly.
    The last time I noticed a new value for the astronomical unit was
    at the start of the millenium. Has it been standardized since then?
    Even if it has been standardized to a certain number of metres,
    the metre is based on the distance between Earth's equator and
    north pole. So at least doubly terracentric.

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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJSF View Post
    Wikipedia says it was redefined to to exactly 648000/pi astronomical units, which is approximately 3.26ly.
    Small angle approximation: tan(θ) ~ sin(θ) ~ θ.
    So they've dropped the trigonometrical derivation and made it into just a second of arc times an AU.

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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Root View Post
    The last time I noticed a new value for the astronomical unit was
    at the start of the millenium. Has it been standardized since then?
    2012. To a round number of hundreds of metres.

    Grant Hutchison
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Root View Post
    That's what I said in post #6.

    -- Jeff, in Minneapolis
    Yeah, and I mentioned that you mentioned that in post #7!

    And also, just discussing the point (not in response to the quoted portion), since it's fiction, they can redefine vocabulary any way they want. Though it's a bit weird that they use perfectly normal modern English, with the exception that they've redefined "parsec."
    As above, so below

  5. #35
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    No one said that a transit has to be measured in units of time.

    The fact that Han didn't elaborate on his feat means he is not "wrong". He would only be wrong if we made the above unwarranted assumption.

    "The Kessel Run was an 18-parsec route used by smugglers to move glitterstim spice from Kessel to an area south of the Si'Klaata Cluster without getting caught by the Imperial ships that were guarding the movement of spice from Kessel's mines."
    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Kessel_Run/Legends


    Han cut 6 parsecs off the length of the trip by taking a more dangerous route (which he could do because he had a faster ship).




    Then again, since a parsec is defined by the Earth's orbit, one has to wonder...


  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveC426913 View Post
    No one said that a transit has to be measured in units of time.

    The fact that Han didn't elaborate on his feat means he is not "wrong". He would only be wrong if we made the above unwarranted assumption.
    That may be true, but grammatically it seems weird to me.

    We do say, "I made the flight to Hawaii in three hours."

    But do we really say, "I made the flight to Hawaii in 3000 kilometers." ?

    Do we use the preposition "in" to indicate distance?

    To me that seems a bit of a stretch.
    As above, so below

  7. #37
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    And then thinking about it some more, I think that's probably because nobody cares about the distance really, people care about the time. If you can fly faster from Europe to Singapore going west to east because of the jetstream, even though the distance is greater, people will go the quicker way even if the distance is greater. So you would boast about how quickly you got there, not about the length of the route. Presumably if Han Solo had been able to get there quicker, thanks to the shorter route, he would have boasted about how fast he got there, not how long it was. He would have said he did it in two days rather than the five days that the longer route takes.

    But then again, perhaps it took longer even though the route was shorter. I can imagine a possible scenario. There is a railroad that travels from A to B, but it goes around a mountain so it is 200 miles, and you can do it in three hours. However, this guy comes along and makes a mountain truck that can go over the mountain, so only 150 miles, but of course it takes him 8 hours because he's going over the mountain. Is that something to boast about? I think it's generally the time you would boast about.
    As above, so below

  8. #38
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    Depends. Luke & Obi-Wan wanted to hire the ship. Han's charge rate may have been by the parsec....


    "She's got 5500 parsecs on the dial, buddy. Anything over 5800 when we get back is charged at premium rates. And, as a courtesy, we ask you fill the tank before returning."
    Last edited by AGN Fuel; 2018-Jan-19 at 06:40 AM.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by AGN Fuel View Post
    Depends. Luke & Obi-Wan wanted to hire the ship. Han's charge rate may have been by the parsec....


    "She's got 5500 parsecs on the dial, buddy. Anything over 5800 when we get back is charged at premium rates. And, as a courtesy, we ask you fill the tank before returning."
    Yes, that's certainly plausible.

    It still leaves the issue of whether you would use "in" as a preposition for distance.
    As above, so below

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesabrown View Post
    If the obstacles were radioactive, then a fast ship would be able to skirt them and stay below some agreed-upon standard of excessive dosage. Slower ships would be forced to take a longer route.
    IIRC the obstacles were a group of tightly clustered Black Holes....... been over a decade since I read any of the novels but I seem to recall that was the reason the Kessel Run was so dangerous and unpredictable.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jens View Post
    It still leaves the issue of whether you would use "in" as a preposition for distance.
    Han don't speak no good English.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Root View Post
    If he didn't know what it meant, he would have asked someone.
    I suspect that he knew what it meant.

    -- Jeff, in Minneapolis
    Now wouldnít that be a useful superpower! The ability to know that what you think a word means is wrong and you need to go ask someone.
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  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jens View Post

    It still leaves the issue of whether you would use "in" as a preposition for distance.
    Kid: Are we there yet?
    Driver: In ten miles.
    Don't know if that's proper English, but it makes sense in that context.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJSF View Post
    Wikipedia says it was redefined to to exactly 648000/pi astronomical units, which is approximately 3.26ly.

    CJSF
    Sorry, I missed that.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superluminal View Post
    Kid: Are we there yet?
    Driver: In ten miles.
    Don't know if that's proper English, but it makes sense in that context.
    That context implies the kid and the driver are already in transit. Presumably the kid knows how much time elapses per mile because he's experiencing it.

    But back home, before the vehicle has left? Or back at the cantina? Especially when the capabilities of the vehicle have yet to be determined?

    Kid: Will we get there fast?
    Driver: We'll get there in ten miles.
    Kid: That's not what I asked.

  16. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesabrown View Post
    That context implies the kid and the driver are already in transit. Presumably the kid knows how much time elapses per mile because he's experiencing it.

    But back home, before the vehicle has left? Or back at the cantina? Especially when the capabilities of the vehicle have yet to be determined?

    Kid: Will we get there fast?
    Driver: We'll get there in ten miles.
    Kid: That's not what I asked.
    Exactly. It is not unreasonable that distance travelled would differentiate good Kessel Runs from bad Kessel Runs.

    It is unreasonable for distance travelled to be an answer to, "Is it a fast ship"?

    (When Luke first sees the Falcon in the docking bay and denigrates its appearance, Han counters by saying, "She'll make .5 past lightspeed. She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts." That would seem to be another data-point to indicate simple speed is the selling point, not navigational capabilities).
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  17. #47
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    I frequently drive to a small town outside my megalopolis.
    Google maps says it is 114km.
    I know a few shortcuts, and I am able to make the trip in only 105km.

    Note: it is not necessarily faster, but it is shorter*, which - depending on how efficient my cruising is - can result in fuel savings. I could always decide to get there at the fastest possible rate by speeding all the way there, but I'll burn a lot of gas, and put more wear & tear on my car, by doing so.

    In the case of the Kessel Run, it depends on what the limiting criteria are (eg. lurking danger) to decide what constitutes a great feat. No one said timeis the primary criterion for success. (The primary criterion might simply be surviving to deliver your cargo).

    What if the 18 parsec run has fuel stops every light year, but the 12 parsec run has huge gaps between refueling? A faster ship could make good on sparse refueling stops that other ships could not.

    What if the 12 parsec route passes through a corridor controlled by the Imperial fleet? A fast ship could get past them, whereas, for a slower ship, it would be flirting with disaster.

    What if all routes require skirting a SMBH? A better ship could take a more direct path.


    * and prettier. But I doubt that's a criterion for the Kessel Run.
    Last edited by DaveC426913; 2018-Jan-20 at 12:54 AM.

  18. #48
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    That sounds like a lot of rationalization. If the Run was so famous that you didnít need to explain that background, then why didnít everybody know about the Millennium Falcon?
    As above, so below

  19. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jens View Post
    That sounds like a lot of rationalization. If the Run was so famous that you didn’t need to explain that background, then why didn’t everybody know about the Millennium Falcon?
    Han had every intention of regaling his quaint, bumpkin guests with the entire story of the Kessel Run and his part in it, during the long, dull, routine journey to Alderaan that lay ahead.

  20. #50
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    If he got the deal. But by presenting the facts in such an incomprehensible way he risked making them think he was an idiot for not knowing that a parsec was a measure of distance.
    As above, so below

  21. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jens View Post
    That sounds like a lot of rationalization. If the Run was so famous that you didn’t need to explain that background, then why didn’t everybody know about the Millennium Falcon?
    That's not a legitimate criticism, at least not of the "parsecs" usage. If Han had said, "It's the ship that made the Kessel Run in less than 12 hours!" he would still have been assuming that Kenobi knew what a typical Kessel Run was.
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  22. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superluminal View Post
    Or just a cool sounding word George Lucas remembered from science class.
    Now that I think about it, there could've been worse options, he could've made the Kessel run in 12 angstroms, or 12 gigasecs (both with soft g's). Either one of those has issues different from "parsec"

  23. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeanF View Post
    That's not a legitimate criticism, at least not of the "parsecs" usage. If Han had said, "It's the ship that made the Kessel Run in less than 12 hours!" he would still have been assuming that Kenobi knew what a typical Kessel Run was.
    Yeah, I guess thatís true. Whatever he said wouldnít really matter, it would just be apparent he was boasting. I suppose he could have said, the ship that made the Kessel run in less that 17 pints, it would have baffled the audience but you could explain later that it was a tradition to drink pints at set intervals along the way.
    As above, so below

  24. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jens View Post
    That sounds like a lot of rationalization. If the Run was so famous that you didn’t need to explain that background, then why didn’t everybody know about the Millennium Falcon?
    I don't know about that. I know what the Indianapolis 500 is, but I couldn't tell you who has ever won it, let alone what time any of them finished it in.

    But if you said, "My car's so fast she won the Indy 500 in only 400 miles," I would adopt the same "Don't kid a kidder" expression that Ben did.

  25. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gillianren View Post
    I've always liked the idea that it's wrong in universe, and Obi-Wan's look of amused annoyance is in that moment his awareness of it and not Sir Alec Guinness being tired of the movie.
    Sir Alec was a very good professional. He'd not get tired of the movie before the check cleared

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  26. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by swampyankee View Post
    Sir Alec was a very good professional. He'd not get tired of the movie before the check cleared
    And he did get quite a check.
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  27. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by grapes View Post
    Now that I think about it, there could've been worse options, he could've made the Kessel run in 12 angstroms, or 12 gigasecs (both with soft g's). Either one of those has issues different from "parsec"
    Or he could have made the run in less than 12 centons - which were interchangeably a time unit and a distance measurement, and even occasionally of wildly varying magnitude.

    Last edited by DaveC426913; 2018-Jan-21 at 05:08 PM.

  28. #58
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    Oh, the arguments I had with my classmates over "What's a centon?"

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    If it was me I would have retconned it to 'Pa-secs' and not bothered to explain how many units in a Pa.

  30. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by loglo View Post
    If it was me I would have retconned it to 'Pa-secs' ...
    That's a pascal-second, which is pressure integrated over time. Works for me.

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