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Thread: Conference on Evidence for Astrology

  1. #61
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    Here's a correlation I remember: there was a large meta study of the effect of, I think It was aspirin, and the results for fun clouded birth dates as a metadata, oops it turned out two sun signs showed significant negative results on heart attack etc. While ten signs showed ignificant positive results! Calamity, astrology is a doom for medics and no study has included birth data since.
    sicut vis videre esto
    When we realize that patterns don't exist in the universe, they are a template that we hold to the universe to make sense of it, it all makes a lot more sense.
    Originally Posted by Ken G

  2. #62
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    And guess what would have happened if they did? The effect would go away, of course.

  3. #63
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    I think so too but in the case of simple birth dates for the northern latitudes for example it is not inconceivable that diet or vitamin D variations could have epigenetic effects on the foetus, that could show up in later life as has been shown for starvation for example. The sad thing there is that the forbidden mention of astrology means those studies may be hard to get funded.
    sicut vis videre esto
    When we realize that patterns don't exist in the universe, they are a template that we hold to the universe to make sense of it, it all makes a lot more sense.
    Originally Posted by Ken G

  4. #64
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    But then we return to my earlier point-- the problem with astrology is not that it is impossible that the season of someone's birth could affect that person, it is that the methodology of astrology simply is not designed to discover any such effects. Astrologers aren't trying to understand a dataset by interpreting celestial motions, they simply have no dataset at all, they have only the celestial motions and nothing else. That's a simple fact. So all their correlations are entirely coincidental-- yielding results indistinguishable from other arbitrary means of making predictions such as tea leaves and tarot readings. As with all these things, the methodology is designed to create the perception of success, without ever considering any controlled dataset beyond the anecdotal self-deceptions of the true believer. The problem is the nature of the methodology, not the basic impossibility of the mechanisms proposed. Even if astrology was true, it would be false.
    Last edited by Ken G; 2018-Feb-07 at 08:12 PM.

  5. #65
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    Well tea leaves are well known to accurately foretell the future but with flexible dates, astrology gives dates but a complex loom of possible outcomes.
    sicut vis videre esto
    When we realize that patterns don't exist in the universe, they are a template that we hold to the universe to make sense of it, it all makes a lot more sense.
    Originally Posted by Ken G

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by profloater View Post
    Well tea leaves are well known to accurately foretell the future but with flexible dates, astrology gives dates but a complex loom of possible outcomes.
    Teal leaves can accurately foretell the future? How?
    As above, so below

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jens View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by profloater View Post
    Well tea leaves are well known to accurately foretell the future but with flexible dates, astrology gives dates but a complex loom of possible outcomes.
    Teal leaves can accurately foretell the future? How?
    Yeah, and if it's well known, why am I so ignorant?

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by profloater View Post
    Well tea leaves are well known to accurately foretell the future but with flexible dates, astrology gives dates but a complex loom of possible outcomes.
    You mean, tea leaves can tell you that you will die, but not on what date you will die, while astrology can tell you that a given date will be significant, but not how it will be significant? Yes, like I said, the main way these differ from science is that science can be wrong. That's why it's ironic that people think what defines science is its rightness, while actually, it is its wrongness.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken G View Post
    You mean, tea leaves can tell you that you will die, but not on what date you will die, while astrology can tell you that a given date will be significant, but not how it will be significant? Yes, like I said, the main way these differ from science is that science can be wrong. That's why it's ironic that people think what defines science is its rightness, while actually, it is its wrongness.
    Yes and the reason tea leaves still survive as a medium is the same as all the other methods. The people who feel they can read them have what is called intuition, a link between their interoceptive reading of a person or situation plus imagination plus the gift of the gab. Just like that Delphic oracle referred above. People can use hands ears feet, crystal balls, and to try to apply science to that is to miss the point. Some people are batter at it than others, some are really quite good so they can earn a living as counsellors. Astrology is just more formalised ,richer in detail than Tarot, and with a unique data set of known past cosmic coincidences. The people who devised the myths and legends were not just story tellers they understood human nature and foibles and exercised wonderful imagination, astrology leans on those stories and adds to them. It's fun. It's not science at all. Unless you start to apply modern medical terms to the archetypes, emotions and intrigues that humans exhibit.
    sicut vis videre esto
    When we realize that patterns don't exist in the universe, they are a template that we hold to the universe to make sense of it, it all makes a lot more sense.
    Originally Posted by Ken G

  10. #70
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    Yes, I think it is fair to say that astrology is a kind of art form. The only problem appears when it starts to mistake its own nature, and think it presents us with the same predictive advantages as science! That's what I objected to when I heard an astrologer claim, as a complete fact, that machinery tends to break when Mercury is in retrograde. That's a testable claim that I knew had not been tested, indeed had not even been recognized as a claim requiring testing, but merely accepted as true, as part of the "story" being spun. We can spin stories for all kinds of reasons and gain all kinds of artistic benefits, but when we mistake them for true predictions and start using the stories to make decisions based on those predictions, rather than using them in concert with more basic general rules of good behavior that don't require the astrology to be true in any predictive sense, that's where astrology crosses the line and can become irresponsible and detrimental.
    Last edited by Ken G; 2018-Feb-11 at 12:21 AM.

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