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Thread: Creating an independent state: what its space exploration policy should be?

  1. #1
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    Creating an independent state: what its space exploration policy should be?

    Hi everyone!
    I'm going to build an independent state and position it at the equator where there is the best place for launchpads. I've been thinking about an advanced and powerful space policy an independent state like this can have.

    What will it take to have a powerful space policy in a newly formed independent state

    My question here is: Where do you think an independent state with a well-thought space policy can most likely advance space exploration and be competitive? What objectives do we set for us being able to get them done?

    I'd like to dicsuss all options possible. Suggestions?
    Any and all opinions are highly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by AstronautID View Post
    Hi everyone!
    I'm going to build an independent state and position it at the equator where there is the best place for launchpads. I've been thinking about an advanced and powerful space policy an independent state like this can have.

    What will it take to have a powerful space policy in a newly formed independent state

    My question here is: Where do you think an independent state with a well-thought space policy can most likely advance space exploration and be competitive? What objectives do we set for us being able to get them done?

    I'd like to dicsuss all options possible. Suggestions?
    Any and all opinions are highly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
    Bring lots of money.

    Information about American English usage here and here. Floating point issues? Please read this before posting.

    How do things fly? This explains it all.

    Actually they can't: "Heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible." - Lord Kelvin, president, Royal Society, 1895.



  3. #3
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    Launching Sea Dragons would be an impressive entry into the space race.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Dragon_(rocket)
    I doubt you could build them at sea, however.
    Note that the original design used electrolysed water as fuel.
    Last edited by eburacum45; 2018-Feb-01 at 10:26 PM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by AstronautID View Post
    Hi everyone!
    I'm going to build an independent state and position it at the equator where there is the best place for launchpads.
    I'm not sure where you got the idea that you can simply build an independent state. The land near the equator is already part of existing states. You could try building an artificial island in international waters, but even that is not going to be simple.
    As above, so below

  5. #5
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    Here is the link for how to create your own country:

    https://www.wikihow.com/Start-Your-Own-Country

    Lottsa luck.

  6. #6
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    It misses the hard point: a nation needs to be recognized. Just because some random group declares itself one, it doesn’t make it so.

    Information about American English usage here and here. Floating point issues? Please read this before posting.

    How do things fly? This explains it all.

    Actually they can't: "Heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible." - Lord Kelvin, president, Royal Society, 1895.



  7. #7
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    Perhaps the closest existing analogue would be the Molossian Ministry for Air and Space Exploration?

  8. #8
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    Thanks everyone for contributing to the discussion!

    The first thing to say is if we want to see a breakthrough in space exploration, we need to move forward. Creating an independent state is the least thing we can do as our goal is to become a space-faring nation and lead humanity. There are a lot of conventional states in the world and they are not enough to move forward. Yes this is part of what we are going to do but by itself simple adding a new one to existing ones , one created in their image, won't add anything in terms of advances in space exploration. The challenge is even bigger.

    The challenge - and the question in this thread - is whether humanity can have an advanced independent space program that can rival those of conventional states and deliver benefits unseen-of before to all humanity? Has anyone read the piece?


    Jens, thanks for your thoughtful comment. Nothing prevents us from designing a well-thought space program which is what comes first, and next comes building space centers around the world. As to building an artificial island this one may well prove the most difficult from engineering point of view. Never have I told this will be simple. Thus the consolidating of minds and efforts of people around the world will be required.


    John Mendenhall, thanks for the link which could prove helpful for some. The article covers issues of recognition among others which is awesome, but says nothing about going space-faring. We have to look forward in the future and have our own way. Ours are absolutely unique goals. Other conventional states will follow us, not we them.

    eburacum45, not sure Sea Dragon is going to be reusable.

    swampyankee, Absolutely! Once we have powerful space exploration policy then others, people and states, will only benefit from collaboration on a new level to come. The recognition might quite a bit be tied and depend on us having the kind of space program that advances interests of all... But this is a politics stuff. It seems to be my fault that the topic seems political whereas it has been meant technical.

    KaiYeves, thanks for this inspiring link. The perspective of this team is refreshing. But we have to find our own way to the stars.


    Guys, part of this discussion might be political, but when I've asked about policies I mean policies to pursue in terms of advancing technology and setting up projects that are really going to matter for all of us. Humanity needs an independent policy in space to follow and to be adopted by other conventional states.

    Can we come up with such a program? What steps do we need to undertake to set it to motion? Everything is possible! What I propose is to focus on technical and scientific aspects, not political ones, of a program to be developed. Please propose!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by AstronautID View Post
    Thanks everyone for contributing to the discussion!

    The first thing to say is if we want to see a breakthrough in space exploration, we need to move forward. Creating an independent state is the least thing we can do as our goal is to become a space-faring nation and lead humanity. There are a lot of conventional states in the world and they are not enough to move forward. Yes this is part of what we are going to do but by itself simple adding a new one to existing ones , one created in their image, won't add anything in terms of advances in space exploration. The challenge is even bigger.
    One question: what would be different between this new state and "conventional states"? The way I see it, maybe Singapore or Dubai are closest to what you are envisioning. When you want to do any project, for example space exploration, there are two big questions: what do you want to do, and how are you going to pay for it. The conventional way, for example the way it is done in most large countries like the US, China, Russia, or India, or Europe and Japan, is to have a population that produces food and clothes and that kind of thing, and then to take the surplus and put it into innovation. Singapore, being an island nation, doesn't have agriculture, so they have to create things that they can trade for food, and then use the surplus to fund innovation.

    One other way to do what you want to accomplish would be to convince countries to give up pieces of land that would be used by a UN Space Agency for an international project, and that way all countries would contribute to the financing of it. If it is an independent country, where will the money come from to fund the program? I suppose that one way would be to look for rick investors, in the style of SpaceX, but then you have to ask what is the necessity for having an independent country, going through all the enormous hassle needed to create one. Why not a company?
    As above, so below

  10. #10
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    The Land of Oz

    Quote Originally Posted by Jens View Post
    One question: what would be different between this new state and "conventional states"? The way I see it, maybe Singapore or Dubai are closest to what you are envisioning. When you want to do any project, for example space exploration, there are two big questions: what do you want to do, and how are you going to pay for it. The conventional way, for example the way it is done in most large countries like the US, China, Russia, or India, or Europe and Japan, is to have a population that produces food and clothes and that kind of thing, and then to take the surplus and put it into innovation. Singapore, being an island nation, doesn't have agriculture, so they have to create things that they can trade for food, and then use the surplus to fund innovation.

    One other way to do what you want to accomplish would be to convince countries to give up pieces of land that would be used by a UN Space Agency for an international project, and that way all countries would contribute to the financing of it. If it is an independent country, where will the money come from to fund the program? I suppose that one way would be to look for rick investors, in the style of SpaceX, but then you have to ask what is the necessity for having an independent country, going through all the enormous hassle needed to create one. Why not a company?
    Heed what Jens says. Only a momrnt of reflection on your proposal is required to realize that the critical path is creating a new country.

    As I said before, lottsa luck.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jens View Post
    One question: what would be different between this new state and "conventional states"?
    Jens, you are the smartest deep thinker who have ever pondered on the question. But even you have asked the question. Why do you ask it? Why donít you have an answer to it already? The reason is there has not been such a state yet. And the answer is: weíd better make this stuff and will see what it is. Let me leave it to history to give a more precise answer.

    What I want to say either. You did a great thing. Youíve asked the most important question ever with regard to spacefaring states. And this is going to be a tremendous contribution to the discussion.
    Besides youíve brought up a question of setting economic objectives besides technological ones. I think you need to keep on doing what youíre doing as you help us expand our options. Thanks for that.


    John Mendenhall,
    ""Only a momrnt of reflection on your proposal is required to realize that the critical path is creating a new country.

    Iím baffled a bit. Why? Were it not you who provided us with a link to that piece, a how-to on creating an independent state?
    We are going to take the lead and set technological objectives in space exploration viable for all humanity. We are going to be a friend to whatever country there is, a conventional or spacefaring one.
    If we are going to set new goals and have most powerful and well-thought space policy, attract and fairly reward talents, whatís wrong with that?

    Like a true space species or nation we are not dying for a strip of land. We are after something different.

    I think itís safer to say that one might criticize rather specific policies that have been put forward.

    And the question of interest here is whether humanity deserves a true independent space policy. I think it does. If not now, then when? What to wait for?
    As to specific policies an independent state like this might put forward Iíve done a little bit of posting at BitcoID.com. (check out #BitcoID on Twitter as well) Also I asked others to introduce policies they think it might to adopt, and got some feedback (on Reddit) that in principle support the idea.

    The link to a Reddit thread at least shows people are good at coming up with specific policies when it comes to their interests as a group. But somehow the policies needs to be ranked or voted for or against to get to know what the majority is in favor for.

    Thoughts?

  12. #12
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    And nobody talks about Launch Loops

    Quote Originally Posted by Jens View Post
    ... you have to ask what is the necessity for having an independent country, going through all the enormous hassle needed to create one. Why not a company?
    I'm afraid none of existing conventional states could run this one. And neither could any company. Thus an independent state.

    Jens raised an important question what product an independent state like this should offer as export. Space launches on a regular basis.

    Find my post and learn more:
    "Building Launch Loop at the equator and creation of an independent state on high seas"
    (posted on my blog religy dot com)

    I argue a company is highly unlikely to pull off Launch Loop.
    "all the enormous hassle", I think, will start when we try to build and run Launch Loop.

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