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  1. #1
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    Suprematism(

    I just came acoss suprematism art by chance.

    Look at the painting entitled “black square” in the Wikipedia article.

    If this is not taking us for fools, then I do not what know does.

    Quoting Daily Art Magazine: (http://www.dailyartmagazine.com/ever...t-suprematism/ )

    ‘This is the most important piece in the history of Suprematism. And one of the most important in the history of modern art. Malevich had that crazy idea that art could serve to make the world fresh and original, art could make us look at the world in new ways. He removed the iconography of the real world entirely and left the viewer face the work to contemplate what kind of picture of the world is in front of him.
    What is Black Square about? It is about everything. You can see everything in the Black Square. Everything you feel. Whatever works for you. Quite a hypnotizing idea isn’t it?”


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suprematism
    Last edited by gzhpcu; 2018-Sep-15 at 05:01 PM.

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    well art can be anything....it's when the price goes through the roof that it makes me annoyed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gzhpcu View Post
    I just came acoss suprematism art by chance.

    Look at the painting entitled “black square” in the Wikipedia article.

    If this is not taking us for fools, then I do not what know does.
    I really like Black Square, in its various manifestations. To some extent you have to understand how dramatic it was at the time - but there's also an interesting texture, which is hinted at crudely if you follow the wiki link to the full image.

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    To quote McEnroe “You can’t be serious!”

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    No art movement can be appreciated in a vacuum of context.

    Read about how syprematism started. What shackles it threw off. What conventions it rejected.

    Looking at it out of context is as unfair as looking at the pyramids and disparaging their utter lack of convenient escalators.
    Last edited by DaveC426913; 2018-Sep-15 at 06:55 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gzhpcu View Post
    To quote McEnroe “You can’t be serious!”
    Very serious. Quite a fan of suprematism.

    Grant Hutchison
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    I tend to consider Black Square and similar works to be art about art, statements of philosophy and something akin to a manifesto for a movement. Other Suprematist works are fantastic, among my favourite pieces, and wouldn't exist without them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaula View Post
    I tend to consider Black Square and similar works to be art about art, statements of philosophy and something akin to a manifesto for a movement. Other Suprematist works are fantastic, among my favourite pieces, and wouldn't exist without them.
    "Them" being Black Square and similar works ...

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    You guys must be pulling my leg The black square and Mondrian lines and squares are downright silly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gzhpcu View Post
    You guys must be pulling my leg The black square and Mondrian lines and squares are downright silly.
    I don't know what this Black Square is worth in terms of money....but does it matter? Do you think artists should only paint in a certain way?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gzhpcu View Post
    You guys must be pulling my leg The black square and Mondrian lines and squares are downright silly.
    Serious.
    I'm not a great fan of Mondrian, for reasons I can't quite articulate, but I travelled to the Tate Modern to see the two versions of Black Square that featured in their Malevich exhibition a few years ago. It induces a sort of mindfulness - as Shaula says, it's a painting about painting.

    It's certainly OK for you not to like it, but it's also OK for me to like it. De gustibus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grant hutchison View Post
    I really like Black Square, in its various manifestations. To some extent you have to understand how dramatic it was at the time - but there's also an interesting texture, which is hinted at crudely if you follow the wiki link to the full image.
    Ah, it seems the Wikipedia image is of the original, which is in an advanced state of disintegration. I thought they'd applied some very strange harsh lighting.

    Grant Hutchison
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    Quote Originally Posted by grapes View Post
    "Them" being Black Square and similar works ...
    Yes, that is what I said (I hope!). Pieces I adore would not exist without Black Square and the other works that shaped the movement (artworks that I appreciate but am not as enthused by).
    Last edited by Shaula; 2018-Sep-15 at 08:45 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gzhpcu View Post
    You guys must be pulling my leg The black square and Mondrian lines and squares are downright silly.
    Nope. Completely serious. I enjoy most of forms of geometric abstract art and a lot of other abstract art forms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gzhpcu View Post
    You guys must be pulling my leg The black square and Mondrian lines and squares are downright silly.
    You are judging them in a vacuum.


    The M-1 rifle is pathetic by today's standards of military weaponry, but it is respected and revered by those who know its history - and how it changed the face of World War II (not something we care about today). A collector will pay a pretty penny for it. For its history.

    You can't judge an art movement by modern standards without understanding where it came from, and - just as importantly - how much it has influenced the century of art culture that followed it.

    Whatever else the film 'The Devil Wears Prada' had going for it, it had a great scene wherein the style department loses its poop over the wrong colour of the dresses. Our young naive heroine looks at a dress and says "What's the big deal? Blue is blue, right?"

    And the fashion patron says "Blue is blue?? If you knew the first thing about colour, you'd know that this is Cerulean Blue, revered through the ages for its permanence and opaquenss - the colour worn by Pharoahs and Kings. It has a history a thousand years long. It says something - to those who know what to listen for."*

    * This is all totally apocryphal. I can't remember what she actually said, but that's the gist.

    Art culture is rife with artists who threw off the shackles of their peers and suffered the slings and arrows of derision for trying new things. The Impressionists. The Constructionists. The Cubists. Each movement broke away from the rigid establishments of what was considered "proper" art technique at the time. Their groundbreaking efforts echo down the decades and centuries to the present.


    If we don't remember and respect our past - and how it got us to where we are - we are little better than animals who wake up every day without a clue as to how they got there.
    Last edited by DaveC426913; 2018-Sep-16 at 06:51 AM.

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    I am not talking about movements like impressionists, surrealists, pontillismo, which I all like, but extremes like black square, white square (where they tell you that you are free from the tyranny of the artist and can see what you want...)

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    Quote Originally Posted by gzhpcu View Post
    I am not talking about movements like impressionists, surrealists, pontillismo, which I all like, but extremes like black square, white square (where they tell you that you are free from the tyranny of the artist and can see what you want...)
    I think most of us know there is some pretensions rubbish, an cynical exploitation of art to make money, but why should that stop artists creating such works and trying to explain what they might mean?
    I'm a bit dubious of Tracey Emin's bed for example....I don't think she is being cynical, but I'm not really sure if it is any good as a piece of art...still it's harmless enough I suppose.

    Have you heard of Stuckism, gzhpcu?

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    Now what's wrong with Mondriaan? "Make it as simple as it needs to be, but not simpler" as some famous other guy said. If he had just slapped the primary colors and a few lines together without consideration it would have been a mess that nobody remembers. But that's not what he did. To me the balance and filling are just... right. Not the only way to combine them right, but there are certainly more "wrong" ways. And if his style is still being used and recognized today, a century later, it's hardly silly, is it? Ah well, there was a time when I though 4'33'' was silly.
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    While beauty, or art, is in the eyes of the beholder, truth can be just as strange as fiction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaurieAG View Post
    While beauty, or art, is in the eyes of the beholder, truth can be just as strange as fiction.
    a quote I read somewhere that fiction had to be plausible, whereas reality was under no such constraint.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WaxRubiks View Post
    a quote I read somewhere that fiction had to be plausible, whereas reality was under no such constraint.
    Often attributed to Mark Twain, and for once he actually said it (or something like it):
    Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn’t.

    "Following the Equator: A Journey Around the World" (1897)
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    Quote Originally Posted by gzhpcu View Post
    I am not talking about movements like impressionists, surrealists, pontillismo, which I all like, but extremes like black square, white square (where they tell you that you are free from the tyranny of the artist and can see what you want...)
    I don't think it's actually possible to like an entire movement, or perhaps even the entire output of an artist - we just like what we like. Sometimes the historical context helps that, because the context is in our heads as we look at the painting.

    I find it interesting that you're so incredulous that anyone could like Black Square. Sure, you don't like it - but why should you be surprised that other people like stuff you don't like? Isn't that part of life?

    Grant Hutchison
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    A great deal of modern art is a reaction to institutions like the Academy and to the invention of photography, which could do realism at least as well as the best human. I, personally, find hyper-realism, probably a reaction to the various schools of non-representational art, to be rather inane.
    Last edited by swampyankee; 2018-Sep-16 at 02:46 PM.

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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by grant hutchison View Post
    I don't think it's actually possible to like an entire movement, or perhaps even the entire output of an artist - we just like what we like. Sometimes the historical context helps that, because the context is in our heads as we look at the painting.

    I find it interesting that you're so incredulous that anyone could like Black Square. Sure, you don't like it - but why should you be surprised that other people like stuff you don't like? Isn't that part of life?

    Grant Hutchison
    you mean someone ould like this?
    http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/cont...54-800x500.jpg

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    The next step is to eliminate both color, then eliminate both canvas and frame. The ultimate masterpiece which allows you to use your imagination and see what you will, free from the tyranny of the painter imposing his/her images....

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    Quote Originally Posted by gzhpcu View Post
    The next step is to eliminate both color, then eliminate both canvas and frame. The ultimate masterpiece which allows you to use your imagination and see what you will, free from the tyranny of the painter imposing his/her images....
    If you look at the idea behind the Suprematist movement it was about distilling emotions into something which didn't rely on the iconography of existing art schools or even objects in the external world. It was about stripping back form and shape to simple components that communicated something on an emotional level. It wasn't about freedom from the artist but about freedom from materialist strictures. It was an attempt to push art as something standalone, something that was more than just pictures of things - much like mathematics was proving to be more than just a complicated form of counting things.

    Incidentally, just to stoke your ire Malevich also did White on White.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gzhpcu View Post
    For I think the third time of telling - yes, I like that.
    Why is it that you don't believe me?

    Grant Hutchison
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    Quote Originally Posted by swampyankee View Post
    A great deal of modern art is a reaction to institutions like the Academy and to the invention of photography, which could do realism at least as well as the best human. I, personally, find hyper-realism, probably a reaction to the various schools of non-representational art, to be rather inane.
    I've thought for a while, that if someone is going to do a hyper realistic type picture they might as well paint something which isn't real, or maybe is surreal...something like the melting clocks but painted in a really realistic way....although CGI will be able to do that better soon, if not now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gzhpcu View Post
    The next step is to eliminate both color, then eliminate both canvas and frame. The ultimate masterpiece which allows you to use your imagination and see what you will, free from the tyranny of the painter imposing his/her images....
    Artists have, of course, done exactly that. You are left considering the motives and methods, and what they have to say about art.
    Andy Warhol's "Invisible Sculpture" ("mixed media"!) is a classic of the genre.
    But then there's Maurizio Cattelan's "Untitled", which is a police report of Cattelan's claim to have had an invisible artwork stolen.
    And Bruno Jakob's "Breath" - it consists of six blank canvases (all slightly weathered by exposure to the elements), and a seventh that is only imagined by the artist.

    Grant Hutchison
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