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Thread: A Better Model than Big Bang Model by ShanSun

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Seconded.
    Response: Hi Strange: Once again, Thank you for your thoughtful & thorough comments. I agree I have to learn to use the quote tags properly which I am working on. But please remember that you have been doing it for 10 years ( so you are an expert at it) whereas I have been doing it for less than 10 days.


    Again, you are just trying to justify your assumptions by making up more stuff.

    What is "electromagnetic energy"?
    What evidence is there for "strands" of electromagnetic energy?
    What evidence is there for a "fabric of energy"?

    Why don't we see any of these things? What experiments could we do to test whether this "fabric" exists?

    Response to above 4 questions: Electromagnetic energy is in the form of waves (which can be visualized as strands of energy).The boundary of our universe is out of horizon & so we can't see it. You ask, what experiments can be done? I don't know. I am not an experimentalist. May be brilliant scientific persons like you can eventually come up with such an experiment some day.



    Well, that's lucky.



    No,. These questions were all explicitly about the "first" universe (this one). Please answer them.

    Response: First of all, the model calls for only two universes (so that is the model). Secondly, the pressure in the contracting universe remains higher than the pressure in the expanding universe throughout due to greater tension in the enclosing fabric.
    [/I][/COLOR]

    When you say "its specific heat" what is "it"?
    And you have "increase in temperature" as one component contributing to the increase in temperature: is that supposed to make sense?

    Response to above 2 questions: I thought my equation was pretty clear. I will rewrite it as follows:
    Increase in temp = Heat produced by the annihilation of antiparticles with equal amount of particles _ divided by_ Mass(equivalent) of incoming energy X its specific heat

    In this equation, values of all three terms on the right hand side from the model. So the increase in temp is thus obtained.
    The 'specific heat' is the heat required to raise the temp of the unit mass of a given substance by one degree temp which is the conventional definition of specific heat.



    Please show how you calculate the values. (I am fairly sure they are contradicted by observations but we can come back to that.)



    You said that the edge consists of a solid (but stretchable") fabric. So this fabric must be moving faster than light in your model. This would appear to be a problem.

    Response: The edge consists of a very thin layer of EM strands & has no weight.
    [/I][/COLOR]

    But in your diagram, all the "heat" is coming from one side of the sphere. That is not what we see.

    Response: Most of the heat from the furnce is recycled to heat the incoming EM energy. Only very small part enters the large universe where it is diluted immensely. Moreover it is slowly lost by conduction & radiation. Thus the resulting asymmetry in temp is extremely small. This is in agreement with the recent data obtained by WMAP & later confirmed by Planck satellite which shows slight difference in temp of the two hemispheres of the universe (slightly higher average temp in the southern ecleptic hemisphere of the universe compared to northern ecleptic hemisphere).


    No. You have just claimed that it is based on some calculations. Unless you can show those calculations, it is just another empty assertion



    But before it was beyond the event horizon, it would have made the universe's temperature distribution asymmetrical. This is not what we see.



    What is this dark energy that can conduct heat?

    Response: According to my model, incoming strands of EM energy are broken down into rotating strings of various lengths (due to the shearing force of the expanding universe) according to Gaussian distribution. The shortest strings constitute dark energy, the longest strings constitute dark matter, and the middle size strings constitute the baryonic matter.

    Once again, thank you for your thorough review of my recent post. It is greatly appreciated. I look forward to more of the same.

    [/I][/COLOR]

    Again: You have yet to show us any mathematics behind your "model".



    So you claim you are not making stuff up, by making up some more stuff to justify it.

    I suppose you can make any model work if you just keep inventing more stuff that has no evidence, to explain the lack of evidence for the other stuff.
    \hat{k}\sum_{n = 0}^\infty

  2. #32
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    \Psi[QUOTE=Strange;2473406]Seconded.
    Response: Hi Strange: Once again, Thank you for your thoughtful & thorough comments. I agree I have to learn to use the quote tags properly which I am working on. But please remember that you have been doing it for 10 years ( so you are an expert at it) whereas I have been doing it for less than 10 days.


    Again, you are just trying to justify your assumptions by making up more stuff.

    What is "electromagnetic energy"?
    What evidence is there for "strands" of electromagnetic energy?
    What evidence is there for a "fabric of energy"?

    Why don't we see any of these things? What experiments could we do to test whether this "fabric" exists?

    Response to above 4 questions: Electromagnetic energy is in the form of waves (which can be visualized as strands of energy).The boundary of our universe is out of horizon & so we can't see it. You ask, what experiments can be done? I don't know. I am not an experimentalist. May be brilliant scientific persons like you can eventually come up with such an experiment some day.


    Well, that's lucky.



    No,. These questions were all explicitly about the "first" universe (this one). Please answer them.

    Response: First of all, the model calls for only two universes (so that is the model). Secondly, the pressure in the contracting universe remains higher than the pressure in the expanding universe throughout due to greater tension in the enclosing fabric.
    [/I][/COLOR]

    When you say "its specific heat" what is "it"?
    And you have "increase in temperature" as one component contributing to the increase in temperature: is that supposed to make sense?
    Response to above 2 questions: I thought my equation was pretty clear. I will rewrite it as follows:
    Increase in temp = Heat produced by the annihilation of antiparticles with equal amount of particles _ divided by_ Mass(equivalent) of incoming energy X its specific heat

    In this equation, values of all three terms on the right hand side from the model. So the increase in temp is thus obtained.
    The 'specific heat' is the heat required to raise the temp of the unit mass of a given substance by one degree temp which is the conventional definition of specific heat.



    Please show how you calculate the values. (I am fairly sure they are contradicted by observations but we can come back to that.)



    You said that the edge consists of a solid (but stretchable") fabric. So this fabric must be moving faster than light in your model. This would appear to be a problem.
    Response: The edge consists of a very thin layer of EM strands & has no weight.

    [/I][/COLOR]

    But in your diagram, all the "heat" is coming from one side of the sphere. That is not what we see.
    Response: Most of the heat from the furnace is recycled to heat the incoming EM energy. Only very small part enters the large universe where it is diluted immensely. Moreover it is slowly lost by conduction & radiation. Thus the resulting asymmetry in temp is extremely small. This is in agreement with the recent data obtained by WMAP & later confirmed by Planck satellite which shows slight difference in temp of the two hemispheres of the universe (slightly higher average temp in the southern ecleptic hemisphere of the universe compared to northern ecleptic hemisphere).


    No. You have just claimed that it is based on some calculations. Unless you can show those calculations, it is just another empty assertion



    But before it was beyond the event horizon, it would have made the universe's temperature distribution asymmetrical. This is not what we see.



    What is this dark energy that can conduct heat?
    Response: According to my model, incoming strands of EM energy are broken down into rotating strings of various lengths (due to the shearing force of the expanding universe) according to Gaussian distribution. The shortest strings constitute dark energy, the longest strings constitute dark matter, and the middle size strings constitute the baryonic matter.
    [/I][/COLOR]

    Once again, thank you for your thorough review of my recent post. It is greatly appreciated. I look forward to more of the same.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by sksuneja View Post
    Response to above 4 questions: Electromagnetic energy is in the form of waves (which can be visualized as strands of energy).The boundary of our universe is out of horizon & so we can't see it. You ask, what experiments can be done? I don't know. I am not an experimentalist. May be brilliant scientific persons like you can eventually come up with such an experiment some day.
    So, basically you have just invented this idea of "threads" of electromagnetic energy with no evidence or theory behind it and no way of testing it. That is not how science works.

    How can anyone possibly come up with an experiment to detect something that only exists in your imagination.

    Response: First of all, the model calls for only two universes (so that is the model). Secondly, the pressure in the contracting universe remains higher than the pressure in the expanding universe throughout due to greater tension in the enclosing fabric.
    Why? Just because you want it to? There is no physics behind this, is there?

    Response: The edge consists of a very thin layer of EM strands & has no weight.
    If that were the case then it could only travel at the speed of light: no faster and no slower.

    And yet this thin layer of magic "solid light" stops matter escaping. Amazing. If such a thing actually existed, it would be really useful.

    Most of the heat from the furnce is recycled to heat the incoming EM energy. Only very small part enters the large universe where it is diluted immensely. Moreover it is slowly lost by conduction & radiation. Thus the resulting asymmetry in temp is extremely small. This is in agreement with the recent data obtained by WMAP & later confirmed by Planck satellite which shows slight difference in temp of the two hemispheres of the universe (slightly higher average temp in the southern ecleptic hemisphere of the universe compared to northern ecleptic hemisphere).
    Please show how you calculate the temperature asymmetry to confirm that it is consistent with measurements.

    Also, you forgot to show your calculations of the size and speed of expansion.

  4. #34
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    sksuneja, please use either the QUOTE function, or some other way to accurately indicate which part of your message is a quote from others and which part is by you.

    To use the QUOTE function, you'll need to put any quoted section between [QUOTE] and [/QUOTE] tags, so before clicking submit your text looks somewhat like this:

    [QUOTE]First question from poster [/QUOTE]
    Your response to first question
    [QUOTE]some remark from poster [/QUOTE]
    Your response to this remark
    [QUOTE]Second question from poster [/QUOTE]
    Your response to second question
    [QUOTE]some remark from poster [/QUOTE]
    Your response to this remark


    The first use of [QUOTE] usually includes "=username;messagenumber", to enable the "Originally posted by" message.
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by sksuneja View Post
    I agree I have to learn to use the quote tags properly which I am working on. But please remember that you have been doing it for 10 years ( so you are an expert at it) whereas I have been doing it for less than 10 days.
    And yet, I would never suggest that GR and 100 years of cosmology is wrong. So there is clearly an inverse correlation between ability to post on an Internet forum and mastery of advanced physics.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    And yet, I would never suggest that GR and 100 years of cosmology is wrong. So there is clearly an inverse correlation between ability to post on an Internet forum and mastery of advanced physics.
    Response: Hi Strange: Thank you for your comment. Incidentally, my mathematical model starts with GR equations, so I am not at all suggesting that GR is wrong. What I am questioning is the 'hot inflationary big bang model'. Please remember Ptolemy's model was questioned after almost 1500 years & turned out to be wrong. So that is what the science is about. Looking & relooking, questioning & requestioning the existing theories and models.
    Once again, many thanks for your open mindedness.
    Last edited by sksuneja; 2019-Jan-19 at 03:46 PM.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by slang View Post
    sksuneja, please use either the QUOTE function, or some other way to accurately indicate which part of your message is a quote from others and which part is by you.

    To use the QUOTE function, you'll need to put any quoted section between tags, so before clicking submit your text looks somewhat like this:


    Your response to first question

    Your response to this remark

    Your response to second question

    Your response to this remark


    The first use of [QUOTE] usually includes "=username;messagenumber", to enable the "Originally posted by" message.
    Response: Hi Slang: Thank you for your instructions on how to use the Quote function. It is greatly appreciated

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by sksuneja View Post
    More details about my model
    In order to understand my model, visualize two spheres: Sphere A is expanding by drawing energy from the other sphere (Sphere B) and Sphere B Is contracting thereby supplying energy to sphere A. With this picture in view, I will now list some features of my model.


    1. Our universe is spherical (and not flat) in shape, like all known celestial objects.

    2. There are two universes: One is expanding and the other is contracting....
    I'm sorry sksuneja, but I can't participate usefully with this. I think your idea is an "unsupported hypothesis" I'm afraid. More importantly I think it doesn't fit well with what I know about fundamental physics, general relativity, and cosmology. Apologies.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    So, basically you have just invented this idea of "threads" of electromagnetic energy with no evidence or theory behind it and no way of testing it. That is not how science works.
    Response: Hi Strange: Once again, thank you for your thoughtful comments. I was thinking why a brilliant person like you is having problem accepting the word 'threads'. Then I realized it is my fault. I have chosen a wrong/unconventional word for I was trying to convey. Actually, what I am referring to is the 'waves' of EM energy. This is the same thing as the waves of EM which get stretched as universe expands, so their wavelength increases resulting in redshift. So I have not invented any idea here.
    How can anyone possibly come up with an experiment to detect something that only exists in your imagination.
    Response; As above.


    Why? Just because you want it to? There is no physics behind this, is there?
    Response: To this, all I can say is that this is the model to start with.


    If that were the case then it could only travel at the speed of light: no faster and no slower.
    And yet this thin layer of magic "solid light" stops matter escaping. Amazing. If such a thing actually existed, it would be really useful.
    Response: Actually, this is like the space expanding. So it can move at speed greater than that of light without violating relativity


    Please show how you calculate the temperature asymmetry to confirm that it is consistent with measurements.
    Response: My model predicted slight temperature asymmetry, so I did not do further calculations to find its amount. But now I will do that & since it will take me some time to do it, I did not want to delay my response to your post. I will report it here when I have that answer.

    Also, you forgot to show your calculations of the size and speed of expansion.[/QUOTE]

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    And yet, I would never suggest that GR and 100 years of cosmology is wrong. So there is clearly an inverse correlation between ability to post on an Internet forum and mastery of advanced physics.
    Response: Hi Strange, I admire you a lot for your open mindedness. I wish everyone in the scientific community was open minded like you. Then science will progress even faster with lot less waste of resources. Please keep it up. Thanks!

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by sksuneja View Post
    Incidentally, my mathematical model starts with GR equations, so I am not at all suggesting that GR is wrong. What I am questioning is the 'hot inflationary big bang model'.
    1. You haven't shown us your model.

    2. The Big Bang medal was originally derived from the Einstein Field Equations. So, maybe you aren't saying that GR is wrong, but you need to explain why that solution is wrong.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by sksuneja View Post
    Response: Hi Strange: Once again, thank you for your thoughtful comments. I was thinking why a brilliant person like you
    Please stop doing that. It is getting very annoying.

    I have chosen a wrong/unconventional word for I was trying to convey. Actually, what I am referring to is the 'waves' of EM energy. This is the same thing as the waves of EM which get stretched as universe expands, so their wavelength increases resulting in redshift. So I have not invented any idea here.
    You have invented the idea that electromagnetic waves can "condense" form some sort of solid barrier. Changing the words, doesn't make this any less fantasy.

    Response: Actually, this is like the space expanding. So it can move at speed greater than that of light without violating relativity
    It is not "like space expanding". You have a different model with the matter at the out edge of the universe held in place (by magic solid light) but moving at more than the speed of light.

    Response: My model predicted slight temperature asymmetry, so I did not do further calculations to find its amount. But now I will do that & since it will take me some time to do it, I did not want to delay my response to your post. I will report it here when I have that answer.
    Why not show us the calculations for the numbers you quoted above?

    Your reluctance to share your "model" makes me sceptical that you have one.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Why not show us the calculations for the numbers you quoted above?

    Your reluctance to share your "model" makes me sceptical that you have one.

    Let me make that official, because up to now we have only seem some words about this model.
    It is time that you show something more concrete that can be discussed.
    So in your next post sksuneja
    please present your model.
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  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    1. You haven't shown us your model.

    2. The Big Bang medal was originally derived from the Einstein Field Equations. So, maybe you aren't saying that GR is wrong, but you need to explain why that solution is wrong.
    Response: I know that the original Big Bang model was derived from Einstein's Field Equations and I am not saying that Lemaitre's solution is wrong. What I am saying is that the starting picture/model itself is not right. It appeared right at that time (back in 1927 or so) because it was able to explain the very limited data (compared to now) available then, even though it required the existence of a singularity to start with. But as more & more data became available, this model/picture was not able to explain the new data. So several additions/modifications had to be made to this model (such as inflation etc) which have several unanswered questions till to date.
    So what I am saying is that it is time now to start afresh with a new model/picture based on GR (which rightfully explains the macrophenomena in the universe) and hopefully come up with a solution which will explain the data available until now without the requirement/need for fanciful/unscientific phenomena such as singularity, inflation etc. And all I am doing is proposing such a model.
    By the way, I am also not downplaying the role & contributions of all the brilliant scientists in the last 100 years. I am not grandiose/naïve enough to suggest that I am smarter than any of them. In fact, I whole heartedly salute all these scientists because for 100 years, they have come up with ideas (though unscientific at times) in order to explain almost every new data using the incorrect model/picture.\Rightarrow So what I am saying is that imagine how much better these brilliant minds would do if they have a better/more correct model to start with & work with. And all I am doing is proposing such a model.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by tusenfem View Post

    Let me make that official, because up to now we have only seem some words about this model.
    It is time that you show something more concrete that can be discussed.
    So in your next post sksuneja
    please present your model.
    Response: Hi Mr Moderator: My sincere apologies I did not see your post when I posted my last reply to Strange. In his previous post, Strange asked me to show him how much temperature asymmetry my model predicts. In my original calculations, when my model predicted small asymmetry in temperature, I left it at that and did not try to calculate the magnitude of that asymmetry. But I will do that now. Once I have that calculation done, then I will post the results, Also at that time, I will post more details about my model. However, this may take me some time because this is not what I do full time. So I would like to request a break at this time and request to restart this thread in the near future..\left[ \right]

  16. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by sksuneja View Post
    Response: Hi Mr Moderator: My sincere apologies I did not see your post when I posted my last reply to Strange. In his previous post, Strange asked me to show him how much temperature asymmetry my model predicts. In my original calculations, when my model predicted small asymmetry in temperature, I left it at that and did not try to calculate the magnitude of that asymmetry. But I will do that now. Once I have that calculation done, then I will post the results, Also at that time, I will post more details about my model. However, this may take me some time because this is not what I do full time. So I would like to request a break at this time and request to restart this thread in the near future..\left[ \right]
    Why not show the calculations for these numbers:
    Quote Originally Posted by sksuneja View Post
    The radius of the spherical universe and the speed of expansion depend on the age of the universe. Some values calculated from my model are:
    Age (By) Radius (Bly) Speed of outer edge
    10.0 10.44 1.14C
    13.8 15.0 1.27C

    15.0 16.54 1.32C
    20.0 23.76 1.59C

    30.0 43.62 2.48C
    40.0 75.49 4.05C
    As you have already done it, it should take you no time at all.

  17. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by tusenfem View Post

    Let me make that official, because up to now we have only seem some words about this model.
    It is time that you show something more concrete that can be discussed.
    So in your next post sksuneja
    please present your model.
    Response(contd): Hi Mr Moderator: Also I would like to add that this is an awesome forum which provides excellent opportunity for brilliant, innovative & inquisitive minds to exchange ideas and motivate each other to pursue/continue this noble task of scientific enquiry. In addition, all of you staff (both moderators & administrators) are doing an admirable job in keeping this forum focused, disciplined and decent. My heartfelt thanks to you all !!

  18. #48
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    sksuneja,

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