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Thread: Long life distribution methods

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noclevername View Post
    Given the numbers of researchers currently dedicating their work and intellects to finding it, coming from many different directions, I am.
    In another thread, though, in response to this:

    Any drug profits that come from your DNA--should be shared with the donor to the tune of 20% IMHO
    You posted this:

    At least.
    If you are really looking forward to such advances, I don't really understand why you seem to support a system that would drive up the cost of research and development and make it likely that treatments will be expensive and out of the reach of people like you and I.
    As above, so below

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jens View Post
    In another thread, though, in response to this:



    You posted this:



    If you are really looking forward to such advances, I don't really understand why you seem to support a system that would drive up the cost of research and development and make it likely that treatments will be expensive and out of the reach of people like you and I.
    Drug prices are not high because they need to be, but that's a separate rant. Let's just say I support fair compensation AND fair distribution of health and longevity.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noclevername View Post
    Drug prices are not high because they need to be, but that's a separate rant. Let's just say I support fair compensation AND fair distribution of health and longevity.
    What if it ends up (hypothetically) being a trade-off between compensation and faster medical advances? In that case would you choose the fairness of the more rapid advances?
    As above, so below

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jens View Post
    What if it ends up (hypothetically) being a trade-off between compensation and faster medical advances? In that case would you choose the fairness of the more rapid advances?
    It isn't a trade off.

    Anyway, that's off topic. Back to coming up with distribution methods, please...
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noclevername View Post
    It isn't a trade off.
    I think it very well could be a trade-off. Anything that drives up costs will likely have an effect on research and development.
    As above, so below

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jens View Post
    I think it very well could be a trade-off. Anything that drives up costs will likely have an effect on research and development.
    Greed drives up drug prices, many times more than the R&D costs that make them possible, which is part of why I'm interested in alternatives to the "rich live forever, poor folks never" paradigm that seems to already be developing.

    Any further comment would get into politics.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noclevername View Post
    Greed drives up drug prices, many times more than the R&D costs that make them possible, which is part of why I'm interested in alternatives to the "rich live forever, poor folks never" paradigm that seems to already be developing.
    I would never deny that greed has an effect on it. But I think we need to recognize that R&D costs do also have an effect. Many compounds end up failing either in initial testing or in subsequent trials, and to be it seems undeniable that those costs have to be incorporated into the cost of the treatment. So if you are going to force companies to pay people something extra, that is going to be reflected in the subsequent cost.
    As above, so below

  8. #68
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    Iíve had concerns about this thread from the git-go but so far, folks have done no more than brush the line. Still, while a word to the wise should be unnecessary, Iíll put it out there: government-driven solutions to the proposed problem are in the political domain and as such are off limits.
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  9. #69
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    Jens, what method would you propose? What would be its pros and cons?
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noclevername View Post
    Jens, what method would you propose? What would be its pros and cons?
    The third method I proposed in post 41 seems pretty viable. The problem is that it really depends to some extent on the nature of the therapy, and for example, how limited it is and why it is limited. If it is a question of cost, my suggestion would seem like an obvious one, but if it something else, like for example that it can only be done at a single place in the world and it takes a day, then it would be more problematic. Perhaps then a lottery, though guaranteeing the fairness might prove tricky.

    Also, I think you are an imaginative person yourself, so I don't see why you can't make some proposals as well.
    As above, so below

  11. #71
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    OK. I'll see what I can come up with.

    As for location and time, if it can be done in one place, sooner or later it can be replicated by someone else. As I said, the research is being done all over the world. And I am sure it will take time to analyze each patient, and tailor the treatments to them.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noclevername View Post
    OK. I'll see what I can come up with.
    I keep hitting the Great Wall Of Politics. None of my solutions so far are suitable for the Forum.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jens View Post
    In fact, an idea that partly incorporates the money motive is to say, sell the first treatments at a very high cost, and use some of the money to start a fund that is used to finance subsequent treatments, which will be cheaper.
    And the foundation can also take private donations. Kickstarter.

    Or perhaps more like Patreon: "$5,000 or more patrons get an additional 10 years to their lifespan!"
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  14. #74
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    How about incorporating the foundation AS a religion? Immortalism. The belief that life is worth preserving. Very pro-science and education, obviously. Goal, to give as many people as possible the choice to extend their lives as much as they choose. Historically, organized religions have has some small influence on temporal affairs...
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  15. #75
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    Itís not exactly a religion, but there is a non-profit called the Life Extension Foundation that is dedicated to that I think. They seem pretty serious, if perhaps a little quack at times.


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    As above, so below

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jens View Post
    It’s not exactly a religion, but there is a non-profit called the Life Extension Foundation that is dedicated to that I think. They seem pretty serious, if perhaps a little quack at times.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Yeah, but methods to actually go beyond natural age limits have not been invented yet, so quackism is all but inevitable.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noclevername View Post
    A "life-bank"? I think I saw that movie...
    I don't get the reference. What movie is that?
    Solfe

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solfe View Post
    I don't get the reference. What movie is that?
    Wasn't there a movie where the rich could buy extra lifespan from the poor?
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

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  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck View Post
    Thanks.

    I think I was also conflating it with the "body banks" from the Micronauts comic: involuntary organ banks used by the bad guy to extend his followers' lives.

    ADDED: Note that this is not an ideal distribution method.
    Last edited by Noclevername; 2019-May-22 at 11:45 AM.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  21. #81
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    Maybe when we're all linked into a hive mind, individual bodies won't matter so much.

  22. #82
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    One must make the assumption that increasing longevity, the quality of life is also greatly improved. Do we really want grouchy, forgetful, vindictive old codgers hanging around for a few more decades? Leaders in their 90's+?

    I would rather see a lottery on harvest dates than life extensions.

    But if you want something approaching a merit process, wealth should be a negating process: When you have used your fair share of the earth's limited resources, you step aside. (For most Americans, that would mean terminating us in our mid-thirties.)
    ďIt is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.Ē ― Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes

  23. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post

    I would rather see a lottery on harvest dates than life extensions.
    Harvesting of what? Organs?
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  24. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    One must make the assumption that increasing longevity, the quality of life is also greatly improved.
    I think we had addressed that, in a general way, earlier in the thread. But yes, it bears repeating. We don't want a society of Struldbruggs.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  25. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noclevername View Post
    I think we had addressed that, in a general way, earlier in the thread. But yes, it bears repeating. We don't want a society of Struldbruggs.
    I and some relatives have artificial lenses surgically implanted in our eyes. My parents both have artificial joints. My whole family has medications that allow us to function somewhat. All these have made our lives better and easier than going without them would be.

    I'd say we've already started addressing the issue of improving quality of health. It's in its infancy, but it's a start.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  26. #86
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    In Larry Niven's Known Space, Earth is so overcrowded that people are infertile by law; there's a "birthright lottery" ...that ended up being massively corrupt and open to outside influence. There are even "mother hunts" for those who can't resist having one too many.

    Will there be There WILL be shenanigans of this sort for any life/health extension or, probably, for any means of choosing who gets a limited benefit. Bribes will change hands, black market clinics will flourish, hoaxes and cons will be perpetrated.

    Now let's say that the Church of Immortology has such a method and aims to distribute it. Any (rules-compliant) ideas how to keep them honest?
    Last edited by Noclevername; 2019-May-22 at 09:06 PM.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  27. #87
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    ADDED: The Church of Immortology in this scenario is a large powerful organization, that can make rules that (theoretically) its Foundation has to follow.

    How could the Holy Church enforce its laws and good behavior?
    Last edited by Noclevername; 2019-May-23 at 04:35 AM.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  28. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Noclevername View Post
    Wasn't there a movie where the rich could buy extra lifespan from the poor?
    Freejack was another.
    Solfe

  29. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck View Post
    Maybe when we're all linked into a hive mind, individual bodies won't matter so much.
    I am sure you are kidding but...

    All?

    Even if the technology exists someday to communicate electronically by brain/computer interface, I think we'd still retain our individuality. If somehow the human brain could be radically rewired to be part of a group consciousness, most people would not want to be part of such a selfless union. The "hive mind" would be a small minority.

    It would have to be coercive to become truly universal. WE ARE BORG...
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  30. #90
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    Children growing up in the hive mind might not have our individuality, never having experienced it. But I'm just kidding, I hope.

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