View Poll Results: Should Sell The Right To Post logos On the Shuttle Tank

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  • Yea Great way To Fund Space Missions

    35 74.47%
  • Nope It's Just cost Nasa Goverment Funding

    2 4.26%
  • No Way SPace should Only Be for The Snob's, <like me>

    5 10.64%
  • What Funding,

    5 10.64%
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Thread: Why is Capitalism an dirty word to scientest and Bad Astronomy

  1. #31
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    0. Starting a sentence with and is very poor grammar. And, don't end a sentence with a preposition (with).
    So standard spoken English is wrong? Or does this only apply to written English? Or is a spoken sentence starting with and not actually a sentence and actually something else making it okay?

  2. #32
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    So this is a situation we should not up with put?

  3. #33
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    So this is a situation we should not up with put?
    There are many people in this world who find it hard to communicate clearly at all. If they manage to convey their meaning clearly, then I think, "Hooray! Give them a lolipop!" These people need to be helped with making sense of their ideas in English and informing them of the finer points of grammer can result in their language centers ceasing up entirely. I suggest a computer program be applied to this forum that will grade people's posts and roughly determine their communication ability and provide a convenient graphical reference so people will know who should be congratualted for managing to make sense at all and who should know better than to make grammatical errors and deserves a good drubbing from grammar gurus.

  4. #34
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    I used to use that function of WordPerfect years ago. After the third time it said I was communicating at a 4th grade level, I turned the smartypants off.

  5. #35
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    I'm going to go out on a limb here and say hiring Masters level or higher serves two purposes.

    It gives the hiring party something tangible to validate the knowledge and/or experience claimed in a resume. It's a lot more costly and time consuming to verify claimed real world experience than it is to verify a post graduate degree. This, in turn, makes the claimed real world experience that much more believable and less important to spend a lot of time or money validating.

    It gives the hiring party something tangible to defend the hire with in case that employee makes a huge costly mistake. "I know they didn't pursue formal education beyond high school - but their resume said..."

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spock Jenkins View Post
    ...gives the hiring party something tangible to validate the knowledge and/or experience claimed in a resume.
    But of course...

    There is nothing "snobbish" about wanting to hire qualified people to do highly technical jobs.

    I really don't know why Tuero has a problem with that.
    The facts, gentlemen, and nothing but the facts, for careful eyes are narrowly watching. Isaac Asimov

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald Brak View Post
    So standard spoken English is wrong? Or does this only apply to written English? Or is a spoken sentence starting with and not actually a sentence and actually something else making it okay?
    First off, there are several types of written English. The kind we use here is informal, which means you will see a lot of things from me that you wouldn't see in formal English--such as my predilection for dashes, parentheses, and italics.

    It also applies to starting sentences with conjunctions. I wouldn't do it in, oh, college application essays, gods know, but it is a stylistic choice. Starting every sentence (see, there I go) with a conjunction is a bad thing, but a few here and there is no big deal. Heck, I do it all the time. Strunk & White says it's okay to do now and again.
    _____________________________________________
    Gillian

    "Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

    "You can't erase icing."

    "I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

  8. #38
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    Thanks for the explanation Gillianren.

    Would it be bad for your blood pressure if I asked what a conjunction is?

    Maybe I'll go look it up on the internets.

  9. #39
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    Didn't you see Schoolhouse Rock! in the 70s? "Conjunction Junction" and all that?

    No. Well. A conjuction is a part of speech that is used to hold clauses together when each clause is a complete sentence. The mnemonic I currently use to remember all of them is "FAN BOYS"--for and nor but or yet so. That's it. That's all the conjunctions in the English language.

    Of course, conjunctions also string lists of words together, or at least, some of them do, but mostly clauses. (As in right there, though "mostly clauses" isn't actually a complete sentence.) I can go more into detail, of course, but it's up to you.
    _____________________________________________
    Gillian

    "Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

    "You can't erase icing."

    "I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

  10. #40
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    Didn't you see Schoolhouse Rock! in the 70s?
    Sorry, Queensland was still in the dark ages back in the 70's.

    So in the sentence, "Put the cane toad in the pot but don't cook it too long," the word "but" would be a conjunction?

  11. #41
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    Personally, I fully support space tourism; the person going up is fully aware of the consequences, money gets pumped into the industry, and we set precedents of "non-skilled passengers" being put into space, giving the far-reaching implication that everyday people -- such as you and I, viewer of my post -- can go into space in future time periods.

    I personally see it as no different than having a civilian passenger on a military boat, or a civilian inside of a submarine; they know the risks, and as long as they have some sort of a benefit (such as pumping funds into the project), I think that it's a risk worth taking; or at the least, unless the risks are shown to outweigh the benefits, which I don't currently see at the moment. I think that the benefits are pretty... er... benefitty. But I'm just a layman, so what do I know?

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald Brak View Post
    Sorry, Queensland was still in the dark ages back in the 70's.
    I keep forgetting; you don't put a location in your information.

    So in the sentence, "Put the cane toad in the pot but don't cook it too long," the word "but" would be a conjunction?
    Yes. However, there should be a comma before "but."
    _____________________________________________
    Gillian

    "Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

    "You can't erase icing."

    "I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

  13. #43
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    I keep forgetting; you don't put a location in your information.
    I'll have to work out how to do that one of these days. (We're celebrating 30 glorious years of electricity next week.)

    Yes. However, there should be a comma before "but."
    Thanks - Put the cane toad in the pot, but don't cook it too long.

    We tanned his hid when he died Clyde AND that's it hanging on the shed. - "And" being the conjunction.

    Dig the hole with your hands, boys, SO they'll think a wombat did it.

    Crikey, that's a big one, BUT mine's bigger.

    That's not a knife, BUT this is a knife.

    Hopefully I have the hang of it now.

    FAN BOYS - For, And, Nor, But, Or, Yet, SO.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gillianren View Post
    Didn't you see Schoolhouse Rock! in the 70s? "Conjunction Junction"
    hooking up words and phrases and clauses

  15. #45
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    I had more of a Classical education, we had to watch Schoolhouse Bachs.

  16. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuero View Post
    My reply to that is. There has yet to be a shuttle mission. That carried the max number of people the shuttle is able to lift.

    Que? If memory serves, the shuttle lofts a max crew of seven, and if memory continues to serve, we've lost 14 people in two shuttle accidents.

    I'm not the math major of this here forum, but 14/2=7 last I checked....

  17. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doodler View Post
    Que? If memory serves, the shuttle lofts a max crew of seven...
    No, the most ever flew on Shuttle is seven. IIRC, it is possible to fit eight seats in the crew compartment; it was never done. And of course, you could carry several more if some kind of habitable module were placed in the cargo compartment.

  18. #48
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    Since I started this Thread let me make a few points here.
    Anyone going into space has to know it's a risk, anyone wanting to die of old age should not bother. Personally I would go into space with less than 5% chance of making it back. With out even having to think about it.
    As for letting unskilled people into jobs they can't do. I never ever said that. What I did say was that Limiting jobs in space to members of the egg head club was Snobbish. I can not believe there are not any jobs in space for anyone not a member of the egg head club.
    I also never said to look down on anyone with a list of degrees to their names. What I did say is that it is not the end all . When looking at who should go into space. An yes NASA turns their nose up at anyone not a member of the egg head club.
    NASA Should also Remember that all most all it's funding comes from the US government. Which reacts to Public Opinion. AN How many people have PH D's or even a master Degree.
    Also where did all these grammar cops come from.

  19. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuero View Post
    Since I started this Thread let me make a few points here.
    Anyone going into space has to know it's a risk, anyone wanting to die of old age should not bother. Personally I would go into space with less than 5% chance of making it back. With out even having to think about it.
    Agreed, though I'd hold out for a 20% chance at the least...

    As for letting unskilled people into jobs they can't do. I never ever said that. What I did say was that Limiting jobs in space to members of the egg head club was Snobbish. I can not believe there are not any jobs in space for anyone not a member of the egg head club.
    I also never said to look down on anyone with a list of degrees to their names. What I did say is that it is not the end all . When looking at who should go into space. An yes NASA turns their nose up at anyone not a member of the egg head club.
    They look for some of the best mental and physical attributes, and the astronauts have quite a bit of training in everything from aeronautical mechanics to calculus to everything else necessary to survive. There's a logical reason for sending up the best of the best...

    NASA Should also Remember that all most all it's funding comes from the US government. Which reacts to Public Opinion. AN How many people have PH D's or even a master Degree.
    As a member of the general public, I would consider them achieving their objectives to be much more important than bringing along a space tourist. I think that they can take along a tourist (and have, even), and still succeed in their mission, but there's a reason for concern here.

    Also where did all these grammar cops come from.
    Grammar 911: Bad commas! Whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do when they come for you?

  20. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lonewulf View Post
    Agreed, though I'd hold out for a 20% chance at the least...



    They look for some of the best mental and physical attributes, and the astronauts have quite a bit of training in everything from aeronautical mechanics to calculus to everything else necessary to survive. There's a logical reason for sending up the best of the best...

    I have no trouble with NASA Physical for space travel. AS for the Best Mental Attributes being only in those with PH d's and the like. I can not agree.
    Also I can not agree that "EVERY" space job has to be filled with an egg head.


    As a member of the general public, I would consider them achieving their objectives to be much more important than bringing along a space tourist. I think that they can take along a tourist (and have, even), and still succeed in their mission, but there's a reason for concern here.

    Oh but are you part of general public. Do you look at someone with a PHD and see your self in them? How many in the real world would.
    When Has NASA ever support space tourist. They let the Russians to bring them up only because they have no choice in the matter..

    Grammar 911: Bad commas! Whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do when they come for you?

  21. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuero View Post
    As for letting unskilled people into jobs they can't do. I never ever said that.
    Then what ARE you saying?????

    What I did say was that Limiting jobs in space to members of the egg head club was Snobbish. I can not believe there are not any jobs in space for anyone not a member of the egg head club.
    Well, you've change the "term" (egghead club. what in the heck does that MEAN, anyway) your using, but essentually you're saying the same thing as you have in previous posts...

    Frankly, it's getting a bit boring. If you cannot clearly make your point, then...what is the purpose of your posts???
    The facts, gentlemen, and nothing but the facts, for careful eyes are narrowly watching. Isaac Asimov

  22. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.A.F. View Post
    Then what ARE you saying?????



    Well, you've change the "term" (egghead club. what in the heck does that MEAN, anyway) your using, but essentually you're saying the same thing as you have in previous posts...

    Frankly, it's getting a bit boring. If you cannot clearly make your point, then...what is the purpose of your posts???
    OK I make it very very simple.
    NASA controls most access to space. An NASA turns their snobbish nose up at anyone that dose not have a long list of degrees. <unless your willing to clean toilets>
    I also don't believe everyone that works in space needs a bunch of high degrees.
    yes there are many Jobs that may need that Degree. But not "ALL" of them.
    I may change terms to try and get my point across. But I find it hard to believe any one does not understand the term egghead club. LOL
    Also I'm not just talking about who is or is not allowed by NASA to go into space.
    Their Attitude toward the avg person interested in space is snobbish. There are many grass roots space group. how many of them do you see link in NASA web pages.
    How many of these group get any kind of response from NASA other than it's nose in the air.

  23. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuero View Post
    OK I make it very very simple.
    No...what you are doing is a basic re-hash of claims you've made before. You have provided ZERO evidence for the claim that NASA is "snobbish" to anyone without a degree. (or a member of the "egghead club", or whatever terms you want to use.) Fact is that other posters have shown that you are incorrect in your opinion.

    You seem to have a personal vandetta against NASA (for whatever reasons)...the only thing I can suggest is that you get over yourself.

    As far as this thread is concerned, until you are able to recognize the obvious "flaws" in your reasoning, then I can't see any reason to continue this.
    The facts, gentlemen, and nothing but the facts, for careful eyes are narrowly watching. Isaac Asimov

  24. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilya View Post
    No, the most ever flew on Shuttle is seven. IIRC, it is possible to fit eight seats in the crew compartment; it was never done. And of course, you could carry several more if some kind of habitable module were placed in the cargo compartment.
    The largest shuttle crew ever is eight, done for STS-71 and STS-61-A.
    Everything I need to know I learned through Googling.

  25. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuero View Post
    There are many grass roots space group. how many of them do you see link in NASA web pages.
    I bet there are pretty strict regulations regarding a government agency's appearing to endorse a private organization - perhaps especially a private organization whose purpose it is to support that agency.
    Everything I need to know I learned through Googling.

  26. #56
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    Let's not forget the extraordinary efforts that NASA makes in terms of public education and outreach, including visitors centres, school visits and packages, public lectures, web pages for children, programs such as spaceward bound, support for space camps and a wide range of private space groups such as the planetary scoeity and the various Mars and Moon societies. far from being snobbish, NASA has done a fantastic job in reaching out to ordinary people, not only of the US, but the world.

    Jon

  27. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToSeek View Post
    The largest shuttle crew ever is eight, done for STS-71 and STS-61-A.
    Yes. My mistake.

  28. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonClarke View Post
    Let's not forget the extraordinary efforts that NASA makes in terms of public education and outreach, including visitors centres, school visits and packages, public lectures, web pages for children, programs such as spaceward bound, support for space camps and a wide range of private space groups such as the planetary scoeity and the various Mars and Moon societies. far from being snobbish, NASA has done a fantastic job in reaching out to ordinary people, not only of the US, but the world.
    OMFSM! I remember when I was a child, I went to a NASA camp type thing... we got to play astronauts and Mission Control! This was part of a class field trip, and MAN was it full of awesome and rock!

    I was a mechanic of sorts. In short, I plugged things in and made sure they were connected. Since we had a successful launch (according to the simulation), I can only assume I didn't screw up.

    That was when I decided I wanted to be an aeronautical engineer!


    ...Later on, I realized what it ACTUALLY means to be one, and I decided against it. I'm more a bookworm anyways.

  29. #59
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    BTW, I'd have to google for a reference, but Congress has mandated that anyone wishing to be launched into space in a private vehicle must waive all liabilities and be explicitly warned that they risk life and limb.

  30. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Jubjub View Post
    BTW, I'd have to google for a reference, but Congress has mandated that anyone wishing to be launched into space in a private vehicle must waive all liabilities and be explicitly warned that they risk life and limb.
    Gee, no d'uh?

    "WARNING: Being launched into space is hazardous."

    "WARNING: Fire is hot."

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