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View Full Version : Another silly Hoagland Accusation



Rift
2004-Mar-02, 11:36 PM
Lets grind those fossils to nothing, yee haw!!! (http://www.enterprisemission.com/images/Spirit/Fossil.jpg)

Wingnut Ninja
2004-Mar-03, 03:58 AM
Are those photos showing the same area? The "after" shot is a lot smaller and looks like different features.

mike alexander
2004-Mar-03, 04:14 AM
They're the same.

I mentioned this someplace else. Even if it was a fossil I would probably have done much the same thing. What else are you gonna do? You look at the outside, then try looking at the inside.

Rc2000
2004-Mar-03, 04:15 AM
Yep, it's pretty much the same place, before and after the grinder did it's thing. I got the link to em from that other thread and used Photoshop to match em up best I could. One is a bit smaller than the other and I had to do a little adjusting on size, using the two ground sphere things as markers (which can be seen in the 'before' as bumps).

http://monsters4u3.com/rcart/ba/shrimpcut.jpg

I have my doubts that the 'shrimp' in question is indeed a fossil. Think for a moment --- what would the odds of a probe landing on Mars, rolling around a bit, and finding a fossil so easily? Even on Earth, fossils are hard to find.
I'd assume they'd be 'astronomical'.
But, I'm just a layman, what do I know? ;)

Something else I thought about was this -- if there's such a BIG coverup, why would any pictures showing shapes that might actually be signs of life ( I'm not saying this or Mr. Bunny are ) be released to begin with?

Rc

mike alexander
2004-Mar-03, 04:29 AM
Depends. There are places on earth where you can spit and find it hard not to hit a fossil. (Think coal and limestone).

But you are correct in the basics, for sure. If fossils are incredibly rare there, the stats say you're unlikely to bump into one in the first place. If they are common enough to pop up at random they are not rare, so why not take a peek inside?

And more to the point: what are you saving it for?

Rc2000
2004-Mar-03, 04:40 AM
*spit* -- whiiiizzzz -- SPLAT!
"HEY GUYS! Looka heya! I found the missing link!"

Seriously though, good point on the coal and limestone. There are places like that. I'd sooner believe the rover was in a fossil rich area like that and instead of the junk yard like Hoogie was spouting off before.
As far as saving the 'shrimp', maybe the rover has a hot line to FedEx's inter-planetary delivery system.
Wonder if Mars is on one of the routes?

Rc

EDIT: Added FedEx

Rift
2004-Mar-03, 03:28 PM
They're the same.

I mentioned this someplace else. Even if it was a fossil I would probably have done much the same thing. What else are you gonna do? You look at the outside, then try looking at the inside.

Exactly! We can't dig it up and put it in a museum, I'd do the same thing too.

As for a 'coverup', we got a picture of it don't we? There's not much else we can do. "Destroying it" physically when the only evidence anybody is going to have of it for a long time is photographic doesn't make any sense. We took a picture of it, grounded it to show there is nothing in the matrix of the stone, and he calls it a coverup????

parejkoj
2004-Mar-03, 04:06 PM
This was previously discussed here, (http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=11625) but we never really came up with anything. I passed the thread on to a friend of mine who does paleontology and geoscience (on Earth!) and he said you really can't tell unless you do a compositional study, but that it could be just about anything and the picture really doesn't tell you much.


It could be fossils, it could be erosion from some other process, it could be crystallization from melt.

That's what we get for bringing science into the mix. But he thought the spheres were more interesting... I'm eagerly awaiting the follow up study where Opportunity is going to a pile of spheres to try to get spectra of them.

captain swoop
2004-Mar-03, 04:16 PM
[quote="mike alexander"]Depends. There are places on earth where you can spit and find it hard not to hit a fossil. (Think coal and limestone).

Along the beaches of the North Yorkshire coast there are millions of fossilised shells, some rocks on the beach are more fossil than 'matrix' Amonites and what look like modern Limpets and Cockles.

Humphrey
2004-Mar-03, 04:20 PM
Dover too. The chalk deposits are made up of millions of tiny fossils.

Joe Durnavich
2004-Mar-03, 07:06 PM
Yesterday I think we learned what that shrimp-like feature really is. The "blueberry" spherules sometimes interact with the rock immediately surrounding them causing the rock grains to be larger there. They call this a "reaction rim." Notice in this image, for example, the larger rock grains around the spherule in the upper right corner:

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/opportunity/20040302a/18-jg-04-mi3-halo-B038R1_br.jpg

The "shrimp", then, is likely an area that encased a spherule and the body of the shrimp is just larger grains in the rock matrix. In the shrimp image, you can also make out larger grains around the spherule in the upper right corner in the 3 o'clock to 6 o'clock region. Presumably, if that spherule eroded away, a shrimp-shaped rim would remain:

http://www.enterprisemission.com/images/Spirit/Fossil.jpg