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Fazor
2010-Feb-10, 03:45 PM
First: This thread isn't about the events in Dover or Evolution vs Intelligent Design. I see there's already threads on that (though no longer active).

I'd seen most of this show before, but Tara hadn't seen it and it's been living on our DVR for over a year, so we watched it again last night. I had forgotten just how stellar it was. Tara probably thinks I'm insane, because it always gets me to the point of arguing with the inanimate pictures on the screen.

First off, I love Nova. I think it's one of the very few good, educational shows still on tv. Our DVR has about a dozen episodes, each covering a different subject. Some I've watched and saved. Some I haven't gotten to yet.

But the "Judgment Day" episode managed to surpass even Nova's own consistent excellence. I almost want to quit my job and become a science teacher just so I can make sure every kid in every class watches this show. (Me, teaching kids? That's a scary thought).

You can take out the whole Evolution versus ID argument of the show and still have one of the best scientific documentaries out there. They way they explained the scientific process, what a 'theory' really is, and what constitutes as proof was just superb. And the way they were able to relate the importance of it all, showing that it's not just some arbitrary set of rules.

One could also devote a study to a second aspect of the show; the arguments made by the ID people. Not specifically about ID; but rather the flaws in reasoning, the types of erroneous arguments put forth, the debate tactics used, etc. It was such an excellent, textbook example of a group trying to put forth non-science in the guise of science. It had it all. Appeals to authority. Begging the question. Appeal to belief. Outright lies. Misrepresentation. It was like watching one of our threads over in the CT section.

Anyway, I just had to start this thread, because it is such an amazing work. Thank you, Nova!

(Again, I realize this episode already has an old thread, but from the bit I read, it was more about the argument of Evo vs ID. Which is fine, but not my intention.)

GalaxyGal
2010-Feb-10, 05:05 PM
Thanks Fazor!

I missed this NOVA episode.....so I'm watching it online now at this PBS link. (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/beta/evolution/intelligent-design-trial.html)

Teacher resources are available here (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/teachers/programs/3416_id.html)

Kwalish Kid
2010-Feb-10, 06:55 PM
I taught a class on science in the media where I used this as a study on how to present science correctly. I compared it to the BBC Horizon show on the same thing. The Horizon show was abysmal.

Gillianren
2010-Feb-10, 06:55 PM
One of the joys of my library project is that I'm watching NOVA as well, and this one is coming up. (I'm on "journey"!) I think I've seen it two or three times at least, and I'm looking forward to seeing it again. Lately, practically all I've had have been NOVA episodes and so forth, and while it makes it difficult to get my review-a-day out, they're usually worth watching.

Fazor
2010-Feb-12, 03:00 PM
Hate to bump my own thread, but I was browsing through Nova's web page this morning. I hadn't realized that they make a lot of their programs available to watch online. Here's the "Judgment Day (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/id/program.html)" episode. For those who enjoy seeing science face off against, well, unscience, I highly recommend watching it.

Edit: Ha. I still didn't realize it was online after Galaxy Gal linked it in the second of three total replies in this thread. Go brain, go! I think I'm going back to bed. I'll attempt to re-start this day after a few more hours of sleep.

peter eldergill
2010-Feb-13, 04:27 AM
What frikkin' "Rights Restrictions" doesn't allow me to watch this video in Toronto

People from our city (and obviously other Canadian cities) have supported PBS for many, many years and this is the thanks we get? Yeesh

Pete

GalaxyGal
2010-Feb-13, 06:31 PM
What frikkin' "Rights Restrictions" doesn't allow me to watch this video in Toronto

People from our city (and obviously other Canadian cities) have supported PBS for many, many years and this is the thanks we get? Yeesh

Pete,

It's also available here: YouTube Judgement Day (http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=FFB8B5F4B16D543C&search_query=NOVA%3AJudgement+Day)

Gillianren
2010-Feb-13, 06:50 PM
People from our city (and obviously other Canadian cities) have supported PBS for many, many years and this is the thanks we get? Yeesh

You have my thanks. Were it not for Viewers Like You (and our British Columbian neighbours up here), there wouldn't be enough support to make up for Viewers Like Me, who can't really afford to contribute.

EDG
2010-Feb-14, 08:55 PM
Pete,

It's also available here: YouTube Judgement Day (http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=FFB8B5F4B16D543C&search_query=NOVA%3AJudgement+Day)

Oo, thanks for that. I've watched the first two parts (have to go out now) but I'll watch the rest later.

EDG
2010-Feb-15, 02:19 AM
And having watched it all... yes, it was quite brilliant. I shudder to think what would have happened if the judge went the other way in his decision, though it kinda boggles me that this sort of thing should be decided in a court.

Gillianren
2010-Feb-15, 03:11 AM
And having watched it all... yes, it was quite brilliant. I shudder to think what would have happened if the judge went the other way in his decision, though it kinda boggles me that this sort of thing should be decided in a court.

It's the American way!

Note, the science wasn't being settled in a court; that's being settled by scientists every day, and the judge just went along with scientific standards and consensus. The issue the judge settled was whether or not this particular not-science was also a First Amendment violation, which of course it was. Remember, you'll get people being upset that the local school isn't being allowed to teach the kids what they believe the kids should be taught.

EDG
2010-Feb-15, 04:01 AM
It's the American way!

Note, the science wasn't being settled in a court

I thought one of the things they had to decide was whether or not ID was science wasn't it? At least, the judge declared that it wasn't in the final judgement.

I think in the UK we should have both sides debate it with Jeremy Paxman chairing it... that'd be a laugh. :lol:

Gillianren
2010-Feb-15, 06:04 AM
Whether it was science or not was a minor side-issue. What was really at stake was, "Is this being presented for scientific or religious reasons?" It was found, repeatedly, that the people presenting it didn't even know what ID was, just that it was like creationism.