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Spacewriter
2004-Mar-04, 12:23 AM
Okay, I did a quickie search to see if you guys had ever talked about this one, but only found a discussion on Latin pronunciations that didn't come to a conclusion.

So, here it is:

How do you say Eta Carinae?

I'e heard it as ATE-uh Cuh-RYE-Knee, also as ATE-uh Cuh-RYE-nay, and also ATE-uh Cuh-RYE-nuh. But I've rarely if ever heard ATE-uh Cuh-RYE-NIGH.

I have to coach a narrator in this one next week and want to give her a pronunciation that won't curl everybody's hair. Myself, I tend to say ATE-uh CARR... but I can't do that in a formal show.

Hale_Bopp
2004-Mar-04, 12:50 AM
I do what the greats do...I slur it :lol:

Rob

Andromeda321
2004-Mar-04, 12:59 AM
EAT-ah ca-RI-nai. Very likely wrong and I am horribly mangling two classical languages at once but there you have it.

The Bad Astronomer
2004-Mar-04, 01:20 AM
I say Ate-uh CARE-ee-nay.

Most of us who study it (and I did for a while) just say ATE-uh Car.

Lorcan Faol
2004-Mar-04, 04:25 AM
Ate a Canary? maybe?

Nah...

I say it like ATE-uh Cuh-REE-nay. I am probably very wrong.

Ut
2004-Mar-04, 04:52 AM
I say it like I see it.

ATE-uh CAR-in-ae.

I'm sure I could ask my classics professor tomorrow, if I remember to wake up for class.

Celestial Mechanic
2004-Mar-04, 05:01 AM
You say "ATE-uh CAR-in-ae",
I say "ATE-uh cah-REE-nigh",
Let's call the whole thing off!"

:-?

Jobe
2004-Mar-04, 06:08 AM
I say Ate-uh CARE-ee-nay.

Most of us who study it (and I did for a while) just say ATE-uh Car.

Do you pronounce theta "THATE-UH" too? :P

JohnOwens
2004-Mar-04, 06:56 AM
After four years of Latin, I say "ATE-ah cah-RIN-aye". I never took Greek though, so I won't vouch for the accuracy of the "eta" part.

(Edit: modify my pronunciation slightly)

Charlie in Dayton
2004-Mar-04, 07:31 AM
How do you say Eta Carinae?

I say, "That star over there...no, not that one, that one...no, more to the left...the third one over...yeah, that one..."

Simple, ain't it? =D>

Diamond
2004-Mar-04, 09:24 AM
How do you say Eta Carinae?

I say, "That star over there...no, not that one, that one...no, more to the left...the third one over...yeah, that one..."

Simple, ain't it? =D>

Charlie in Dayton 1 Rest of BaBB 0 =D>

Kaptain K
2004-Mar-04, 11:38 AM
That big star that might go BOOM! any day now! :roll:

TriangleMan
2004-Mar-04, 12:16 PM
I find myself pronouncing it Eh-ta Car-ee-nae, but that might be the Canadian in me. :wink:

informant
2004-Mar-04, 12:37 PM
After four years of Latin, I say "ATE-ah cah-RIN-aye". I never took Greek though, so I won't vouch for the accuracy of the "eta" part.
You can pronounce the whole name in Latin. After all, you're writing it in Latin.
To clarify, the e in Eta would be pronounced as in the word get.

Eta C
2004-Mar-04, 02:09 PM
Even though my user name doesn't refer to the star (it's the name of a subatomic particle) I figured I should chime in here. Being Greek, I can't vouch for the pronunciation of "Carinae" but I can give a little light on the letter pronunciation.

In modern Greek the letter "eta" is pronounced like an English long e (as in the word "meet" so it would be "eat-a" carinae. The usual English proununciation of the letter, however is "ate-a" as you find in fraternity and sorority names. So it's "eat-a" or "ate-a" depending on whether you want to be correct and pedantic or follow common English usage.

Spacewriter
2004-Mar-04, 02:15 PM
Good point. My sisters at ol' Eata Bita Pi would be mortified to know I was asking this question. :)

But seriously, at conferences I've usually heard variations on "Ay-tuh" for Eta. And Carinae is all over the map. I'm leaning toward having her say "Ay-tuh Cah-RYE-nay"...

Avatar28
2004-Mar-04, 04:02 PM
I say Ate-uh CARE-ee-nay.

Most of us who study it (and I did for a while) just say ATE-uh Car.

Do you pronounce theta "THATE-UH" too? :P

How SHOULD theta be pronounced then?

Me, I'm with triangleman. et-uh (as in the stereotyped redneck I et some lunch) car-in-a (long A).

Eta C
2004-Mar-04, 05:12 PM
Well, for starters there was a bit of a transliteration problem in going from Greek to English. "eta" looks like a capital "H" or a small "n" to English eyes so it usually gets transliterated as an "e" along with epsilon. The problem is that these two vowels are different in Greek. Eta is a long "e" as in meet while epsilon is a short e as in "get"

So what does this mean for "theta" It's acually spelled "theta, eta, tau, alpha" so its correct Greek pronounciation is "theeta" as opposed to the usual "they-ta"

I could go on for each of the 24 letters, but that might be a bit much at lunchtime. :)

daver
2004-Mar-04, 08:50 PM
So what does this mean for "theta" It's acually spelled "theta, eta, tau, alpha" so its correct Greek pronounciation is "theeta" as opposed to the usual "they-ta"

Well, that's the way the Time Lords pronounce it, so you must be right.

sol_g2v
2004-Mar-05, 03:41 AM
James Kaler yesterday pronounced it ATE-uh Ky-RYE-nee. I've never heard this pronunciation before.

informant
2004-Mar-05, 02:05 PM
Ky... rhyming with eye?

Eta C
2004-Mar-05, 02:07 PM
Being a Greek speaker, I understand your point, but I was trying to make a distinction between "ee" and "eh" . In modern Greek the latter is epsilon while there are at least five ways of writing the former (eta, iota, upsilon, and two dipthongs). All of these were pounounced differently in ancient. Another example of this is the difference between omicron and omega. The latter used to be held longer than the former (hence micro and mega) but today they're pronounced the same way.

There is less difference between ancient and modern Greek than you'd think. Grammar and pronounciation have changed, but most of the words used for technical and scientific English are still in the language, such as those for Earth, star, moon, sun, as well as the ubiquitous ending "-graph" meaning to write. They may have been pulled into English by people who only knew the ancient language, but they never disappeared from the modern one.

informant
2004-Mar-05, 02:14 PM
I have since edited out my post, because I realised you were still talking about the modern pronunciation. My apologies. :oops:

Eta C
2004-Mar-05, 02:17 PM
No problem. It's not the first time posts have crossed in the ether :) . I'll leave the old one in. Nothing like a small non-sequiter to wake people up.

ysandre
2004-Mar-05, 08:17 PM
Forgive me if I'm repeating what someone else said.

I used to work for one of the Eta Car gurus and nearly everyone I came into contact with said it "Ate-ah Cah REE nah." May be a mis-pronunciation but I like it. Maybe cause that's how you would pronounce it if it was a spanish word... :D

And I also refuse to say Mira as "MYE-rah"-- I would feel like such a hick saying it like that :oops: so I say it (also like it was spanish) "MEE-rah." But that's just me.

:lol:

sol_g2v
2004-Mar-05, 10:09 PM
Ky... rhyming with eye?

yes

umop ap!sdn
2004-Mar-05, 11:16 PM
So, "ATE-uh" was the correct pronounciation in ancient Greek?

Personally, I'm one to prefer the ancient pronounciations of these languages, so if my understanding of ancient Greek and classical Latin are correct, it would be ATE-uh ca-REE-nye.

But that would also mean rolling the R... :D

Wiley
2004-Mar-05, 11:39 PM
After four years of Latin, I say "ATE-ah cah-RIN-aye". I never took Greek though, so I won't vouch for the accuracy of the "eta" part.

(Edit: modify my pronunciation slightly)

"ATE-ah cah-RIN-aye"? Isn't that the star of a Tolstoy novel?

Cougar
2004-Mar-06, 12:12 AM
Well, when in doubt, I sometimes break down and look it up.

This Yahooligans dictionary site (http://yahooligans.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entries/35/c0113500.html) will actually say the word "Carinae" for you, and to my personal surprise, they say car-EYE-nee.

Then there's this informative Looksmart article (http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m1511/1_21/58398796/p1/article.jhtml) that confirms the above by supplying the pronunciation "ate-a car-EYE-nee".

And my Webster's New World Dictionary, which is actually none too new, agrees and says kuh-RYE-nee, but it also gives a second acceptable pronunciation: kuh-REE-nee.

So I'd say you've got two choices, neither of which jive with how I thought it was pronounced, which was obviously wrong. I hate when that happens, but I guess it does mean I'm learning something....

Eroica
2004-Mar-06, 08:32 AM
So, "ATE-uh" was the correct pronounciation in ancient Greek?
Actually, no. "ETT-ah" was how the Greeks pronounced it, with a long "eh" as in "red."

Stephen Daitz demonstrates how ancient Greek was pronounced on this page: Listen to: Greek. (http://www.rhapsodoioralgreekandlatin.org/Greek.htm) (RealOne Player required to listen to the recording.)

Eroica
2004-Mar-06, 08:42 AM
The problem with pronouncing these Classical terms as they were pronounced in the ancient world (ETTa car-EEN-eye), as opposed to a modern English pronunciation (AYta car-RYE-nee, or EETa car-RYE-nee), is that it falls down when you come to Pisces.

Is there a single astronomer - or astrologer, for that matter - who pronounces this any other way than PI-seez? I think the ancient Romans pronounced it ****-case! :o

And let's not open that can of worms, Ophiuchus, again.

informant
2004-Mar-06, 01:52 PM
"ATE-ah cah-RIN-aye"? Isn't that the star of a Tolstoy novel?
Anna Karenina (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/067978330X/qid=1078580520/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1_xs_stripbooks_i1_xgl14/002-9969931-9405614?v=glance&s=books). You joker, you…


So I'd say you've got two choices, neither of which jive with how I thought it was pronounced, which was obviously wrong.
I disagree that it's wrong. We’re talking about a Latin phrase, containing a loan word borrowed from Greek, being pronounced by people who speak English. If anything, the “right” way to pronounce it would be according to Latin pronunciation, but it’s only natural for someone who doesn’t know the language to pronounce it with an English accent – and there you’ve got more than one choice.



So, "ATE-uh" was the correct pronounciation in ancient Greek?
Actually, no. "ETT-ah" was how the Greeks pronounced it, with a long "eh" as in "red."
I was under the impression that it was probably more like the ee in beer. (Notice that the page you cited uses different symbols for the sound of the eta and the sound of the epsilon; it’s the epsilon that sounds like e in red.)

Cougar
2004-Mar-06, 03:39 PM
"ETT-ah" was how the Greeks pronounced it, with a long "eh" as in "red."
The slightest of nitpicks: "eh" as in "red" is a short "e" sound. Long "e" sounds like "need", as in "I need a linguist."

Eroica
2004-Mar-06, 05:58 PM
"ETT-ah" was how the Greeks pronounced it, with a long "eh" as in "red."
The slightest of nitpicks: "eh" as in "red" is a short "e" sound. Long "e" sounds like "need", as in "I need a linguist."
No, you misunderstand me. When I say "long" I mean long in quantity (ie duration). The "ee" in need is indeed long, but it's a completely different vowel.

Compare the English words "bet" and "bed." Same quality of vowel, but the "e" is short in "bet," long in "bed."

In IPA symbols, Greek eta (η) is [ε:], the long "e" in "bed." Epsilon (ε) is [e] - different quality and shorter quantity.

Eroica
2004-Mar-06, 06:01 PM
So, "ATE-uh" was the correct pronounciation in ancient Greek?
Actually, no. "ETT-ah" was how the Greeks pronounced it, with a long "eh" as in "red."
I was under the impression that it was probably more like the ee in beer. (Notice that the page you cited uses different symbols for the sound of the eta and the sound of the epsilon; it’s the epsilon that sounds like e in red.)
Listen a bit more carefully. Epsilon is like the vowel in the Spanish word que. It's very short, though. Eta is much longer and more open.

informant
2004-Mar-06, 06:15 PM
Yes. This (http://ist-socrates.berkeley.edu/~ancgreek/pronunchtml/pronunciation_guide.html) looks like a good pronunciation guide.

Eroica
2004-Mar-09, 12:15 PM
It would be a lot easier if Eta Carinae just blew itself up. Then we could call it SN 2004ap and be done with it! :D

umop ap!sdn
2004-Mar-09, 10:54 PM
The problem with pronouncing these Classical terms as they were pronounced in the ancient world... is that it falls down when you come to Pisces.

If I'm to correctly understand the pronounciation guide in my Latin dictionary, there is a similar problem with the word "facit".

Eroica
2004-Mar-10, 07:57 AM
If I'm to correctly understand the pronounciation guide in my Latin dictionary, there is a similar problem with the word "facit".
And let's not forget "Tarquinium Superbum!" :D

umop ap!sdn
2004-Mar-10, 09:14 AM
And let's not forget "Tarquinium Superbum!" :D

I don't get it.

Oh yeah, I just remembered another one: somebody once showed me a title of a book that had the word "abysmi" in it, and thinking it was a Latin word, I said it aloud... bad idea. :oops:

Charlie in Dayton
2004-Mar-11, 05:46 AM
...Oh yeah, I just remembered another one: somebody once showed me a title of a book that had the word "abysmi" in it, and thinking it was a Latin word, I said it aloud... bad idea. :oops:

Repeat after me:

Owa Tannaa Siam

Repeat.

Repeat faster, again and again.

Keep going...you're almost there... :o #-o 8-[