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Fazor
2010-Feb-22, 04:30 PM
I was talking to my mom this morning (friend's dog was missing, and my parents live close enough where it'd be possible for the dog to make it's way out there . . . dog has since returned, thankfully).

Anyway, while talking to her, she was telling me about an animal they had seen on their property. My mom had seen it, and a friend that was visiting saw it along with my dad on a second occasion, or at least that's how I understood it. She said it looked like a huge cat, body about three feet long. She said the body was dark; it reminded her of a panther.

I'm fairly certain there's not a panther running around in central Ohio; though there's always the remote possibility someone had one as an exotic (and illegal, in these parts) pet and it got loose. More realistically, I wondered about the possibility of it being a bobcat. They're very rare in Ohio, but according to the Ohio Department of Natural Resources, there's been 255 verified sightings over the last few decades, mostly very southern Ohio, but one as far north as Perry county, which borders Fairfield (which is where both myself, and my parents live). Perry's closer to me than my parents, though, who are on the other side of the county.

So it's possible that it was a bobcat. I'd love to get out there and look for tracks. There might still be enough light by the time I get there tonight, but with the rain we've had I don't know that they'd have held up anyway.

Now, I there's another explanation that seems much more likely to me; that's that the size of the animal was an optical illusion caused by the dark body against the bright white snow. My mom did say that there's been a black house cat that's been frequenting the field. I'd imagine that if it were laying in the snow, but had also left a deep track behind it, the shadow and the body could blend together making it look longer than it really was.

Moose
2010-Feb-22, 04:34 PM
Easy way to tell: go and scritch it on the belly saying "here, Kitty Kitty Kitty".

If you lose your hand at the wrist, it's a feral cat. If you lose it at the elbow, it's a lynx or small bobcat. If you lose your hand at the back-hand shoulder, it's a cougar.

Fazor
2010-Feb-22, 04:45 PM
Easy way to tell: go and scritch it on the belly saying "here, Kitty Kitty Kitty".

If you lose your hand at the wrist, it's a feral cat. If you lose it at the elbow, it's a lynx or small bobcat. If you lose your hand at the back-hand shoulder, it's a cougar.

:) Are you saying I should take a fire-arm when I go to investigate? :think:

Moose
2010-Feb-22, 04:49 PM
Take someone else's arm, that's all I'm saying'.

Fazor
2010-Feb-22, 04:55 PM
"Hey Tara, while I check these tracks out, I need you to limp around in a circle out in the middle of that field, doing your best to look injured and vulnerable. Why? It, uh, helps keep other animals away so their tracks don't interfere with these ones. Yeah, that's the ticket!"

BigDon
2010-Feb-22, 04:56 PM
:) Are you saying I should take a fire-arm when I go to investigate? :think:

And another friend with one. Someone who isn't "chatty".

The Backroad Astronomer
2010-Feb-22, 04:59 PM
You do have the right to bare arms.

BigDon
2010-Feb-22, 05:40 PM
And another friend with one. Someone who isn't "chatty".

I'd go, but I live too far away. I'd bring somebody with a 30/30 carbine and a .357 revolver and I'd use a Benelli semi-auto 12 guage and a .45 auto. As someone once said, "A fair fight is a sign of poor tactics."

Your Mom wouldn't have to know any weapons were about either. Even walking about, shotguns on lanyards are surprisingly not noticible, (with the right clothing), but can be brought to bear very rapidly. Especially with practice. (:))

And if you try to wear a bandana I'll give you a wedgie that'll chaff you for a week.

Just giving fair warning.

Anyway that's only last resort stuff. (Better to have and not need...blah,blah, blah...) Numerous cameras would be first choice. Bringing back hair and poop a second choice.

I think you should look because lately (last three years or so) pumas (P. concolor) in my state have been taking old people, or trying to, and might well be responsible for the lastest disappearances of same near Point Reyes. Pumas are remarkibly successful predators. Taking deer successfully 75% of the time they attempt it.

No other big cat has anywhere close to this success rate. Lion's co-operative tactics put them in a distant second at 19%

Old ladies are a lot easier to catch than deer are.

I tested this theory near the local reservoir/hiking trail. Before the police arrived, I think I gathered enough evidence to substantiate this theory. Ear tags and nontoxic painted "X"'s front and back prevented recapture and the numbers I got, Deer 0/5 attempts, Old Ladies 17/18 attempts. (One had mace) convince me.

Anything for my BAUT friends.

Yep, I'd go look.

Fazor
2010-Feb-22, 05:50 PM
Yeah, I wouldn't really take a gun with me. Don't feel the need. Now I could end up as cat food, sure. I'm just not that worried about it. Besides, that's a pretty cool way to go. Painful and terrifying, but how many wakes do people get to attend where their friend or loved one was mauled by a random wild predator? Not that I want to go any time soon, mind you. But still.

I do plan on taking a camera and a ruler (for scale), just in case I can record some tracks. Plaster would be nice, but I won't have time to get the stuff for it. I don't really expect to find anything anyway. But on the off chance that I do, it'd be my duty as a loyal BAUTer to get the best evidence I can possibly recover. If it was a real big-cat sighting in this county, the DNR should know about it, if for no other reason than to have accurate statistics on the animal(s).

sarongsong
2010-Feb-22, 07:20 PM
Yeah, I wouldn't really take a gun with me...I do plan on taking a camera and a ruler...How about a can-opener and can of tuna, to test the "domestic" possibility? http://www.bautforum.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Lianachan
2010-Feb-22, 07:46 PM
I've seen things that looked for all the world like big cats here in the wilds of the Scottish Highlands. Where, of course, the only native wild feline is the Scottish Wild Cat (http://www.scottishwildcats.co.uk/) - which is about the size of a large domestic and is, sadly, extremely rare and seldom seen. The things I've seen were much bigger, and very dark. Two sightings took place within a mile of each other, about a fortnight apart, so may be of the same thing. The local press had later reported that many people were reporting sightings, and that the police were asking people to report sightings to them.

Fazor
2010-Feb-22, 08:34 PM
I've seen things that looked for all the world like big cats here in the wilds of the Scottish Highlands. Where, of course, the only native wild feline is the Scottish Wild Cat (http://www.scottishwildcats.co.uk/) - which is about the size of a large domestic and is, sadly, extremely rare and seldom seen. The things I've seen were much bigger, and very dark. Two sightings took place within a mile of each other, about a fortnight apart, so may be of the same thing. The local press had later reported that many people were reporting sightings, and that the police were asking people to report sightings to them.

My mom had reminded me of a similar occurrence years ago up in northern Columbus (Dublin, OH IIRC). Numerous sightings of a large, dark cat. One was actually a police officer* called out to look for the creature. A few blurry photos came of it, I think, but nobody was ever able to get a confirmable sighting.

*Note: I don't particularly count the police officer's sighting as any more credible than that of anyone else who is not a big-cat expert. It helps that he was responding to a sighting, and 'confirmed' it. But that hardly makes it iron-clad.

HenrikOlsen
2010-Feb-22, 08:46 PM
"Hey Tara, while I check these tracks out, I need you to limp around in a circle out in the middle of that field, doing your best to look injured and vulnerable. Why? It, uh, helps keep other animals away so their tracks don't interfere with these ones. Yeah, that's the ticket!"
One of my ancestors made a living hunting wolves. His tactic was to dig a pit with a raised center and have his wife sit in the middle to draw the wolves in, then shoot them as they tried to get to her.
They had a dozen children or so and apparently he was know to joke that the hunting was extra good when she was pregnant.

Ara Pacis
2010-Feb-22, 09:20 PM
Can't you just go and measure the tracks?

Fazor
2010-Feb-22, 09:39 PM
Can't you just go and measure the tracks?
Yes, which up in post #9 is precisely what I said I want to do. :) Daylight permitting, and assuming I can even find any tracks. The snow should help that, but the melting of said snow might make them too distorted to mean much.

Swift
2010-Feb-22, 10:35 PM
I could believe a bobcat, they are certainly around Ohio.

Could it have been a fox? They are about the size of a big cat, and grey foxes are rather dark and don't have quite as pointy a snout as a red fox.

Fazor
2010-Feb-23, 01:34 PM
I could believe a bobcat, they are certainly around Ohio.

Could it have been a fox? They are about the size of a big cat, and grey foxes are rather dark and don't have quite as pointy a snout as a red fox.

"Was it a fox?" was the first thing I asked. When I went over for dinner last night I noticed a small pair of binoculars by the door to the back porch. I asked if they had them when they saw "the cat" and they said yes (my mom's a birdwatcher, so almost always has binoculars at hand). So apparently they got a decent look at it.

Now, I just looked at pictures of a gray fox compaired to pictures of a bobcat. I guess I should have done that yesterday, as my memory of a bobcat was mistaken on one important detail. They said whatever they saw had a long tail. I thought bobcats had long ringed tails, but it appears they have very short ringed tails. So the tail thing does lend itself to the fox.

Heh, doing some quick "research" (google style) I found an article on Animal planet's website that specifically mentions that "Every few years a sighting of a big cat is reported in a suburb of Columbus known as Pickerington" . . . and yep, that's where I was born and raised, and where my parents live. So that's interesting. The cat's been identified as a cougar or mountain lion, but it's never been confirmed and is believed to actually be a bobcat. There were a handfull of articles about mountain lions and cougars confirmed in Ohio, but all that were confirmed and plausable were pets that got loose.

So that's interesting.

On the "scientific" end of things, I attempted to locate tracks or signs of a large animal. Unfortunately, the sighting was on Saturday morning, and with temperatures in the low 40's Saturday, Sunday, and Monday, and with a constant rain for the last 16 or so hours prior to me getting out there, there weren't any old tracks.

There were tons of rabbit, mouse, racoon, and possibly possum (there was a distinctive set of prints but I really should be getting ready for work by now, so I'll look up what they were when I get to the office). So there's certianly plenty of food for a preditor. But there were no disturbed areas or bloody areas indicating carnivourous feeding. Who knows.

I'm guessing it was the misidentification of something mundane. I just wish I could have found some tracks!

Tog
2010-Feb-23, 01:53 PM
There are two breeds of cats that can be taken for wild at a distance. one is the Ocicat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocicat), the other is the Savannah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savannah_%28cat%29).

The Ocicat is 100% domestic and is considered a medium to large breed. It's got spots and a long tail, and comes in a few different colors.

The Savannah is a cross between a domestic cat and a serval. They get big. They also have very long legs and could easily be mistaken for a cougar. They are illegal in some places due to the wild cat aspect of them, but according to Cats 101, they make great pets.

Fazor
2010-Feb-23, 02:08 PM
They estimated the body length at three feet (not including the tail, obviously) if that helps.

Ara Pacis
2010-Feb-23, 07:53 PM
My aunt's farm had a large assumably domestic cat once that was about 3 feet from nosetip to tailtip. How are you supposed to measure cats, nose to rear or nose to tail-tip?

BigDon
2010-Feb-23, 08:10 PM
My aunt's farm had a large assumably domestic cat once that was about 3 feet from nosetip to tailtip. How are you supposed to measure cats, nose to rear or nose to tail-tip?

Traditionally nose to tail tip, with tail length included.

LookingSkyward
2010-Feb-23, 08:20 PM
And with felines, the long wavy bit on the back end (notably missing in bobcats), is properly termed 'The Fuse'.

BigDon
2010-Feb-23, 08:49 PM
And with felines, the long wavy bit on the back end (notably missing in bobcats), is properly termed 'The Fuse'.

My friend's enormous manx Suki, only recently passed away, used to get animal control out to his place at least once a year looking for "Bobcats".

Trebuchet
2010-Feb-23, 08:55 PM
I believe the population of puma/cougar/mountain lion has increased quite a bit around here in the past few years and I wouldn't be at all surprised if they were to be found in Ohio as well. They're pretty secretive but still there have been quite a few sightings, including right in the middle of Port Townsend, WA. And about 20 years ago one was live trapped in a park in the middle of Seattle. The description sounds appropriate for one of these critters.

By the way, I've found it interesting that news reports lately have taken to using the "mountain lion" name, which is what we called them when I was growing up in Montana. "Cougar" seems to have taken on a whole new meaning. Sort of like "thong", which used to mean a rubber sandle with a piece between your toes.

The Backroad Astronomer
2010-Feb-23, 09:08 PM
Hey Fazor this might help.
http://www.xkcd.com/702/

Fazor
2010-Feb-23, 09:10 PM
:) Yeah, the most interesting thing I found was the specific mention of the city in which my parents live as being a place that has had repeated "sightings" over the years.

There's certainly a lot of woods to hide in, and small critters to feed on. But I'd also find it interesting that in such a populated area, there'd be a sustained population (even if limited to 1 or 2 animals making their home there), yet no reports of livestock or pets being attacked. Pets particularly, as animals who are penned in or chained up are easy game to a predator.

I was really hoping to find some tracks. Stupid Ohio weather; melting the at the exact moment I change my mind and wish for it to stick around.

BigDon
2010-Feb-23, 09:37 PM
:) Yeah, the most interesting thing I found was the specific mention of the city in which my parents live as being a place that has had repeated "sightings" over the years.

There's certainly a lot of woods to hide in, and small critters to feed on. But I'd also find it interesting that in such a populated area, there'd be a sustained population (even if limited to 1 or 2 animals making their home there), yet no reports of livestock or pets being attacked. Pets particularly, as animals who are penned in or chained up are easy game to a predator.

I was really hoping to find some tracks. Stupid Ohio weather; melting the at the exact moment I change my mind and wish for it to stick around.

Though it's leopards and their well known love of dog meat that get top marks for pet swiping. The prison in Nairobi had a problem leopard that kept stealing away with their german shepard guard dogs in the middle of the night. One spot where a dog was chained at night next to a twenty foot stone wall would get the dog stolen so often they had to stop chaining dogs there. He'ed pull them right out of their collars.

Whenever there was somebody laying for him with a big gun and/or night vision he would never show himself, once stealing the dog when the poised sniper left briefly to relieve himself. Which must have...tic'ed him off.

Fazor
2010-Feb-23, 09:47 PM
I found one web page that mentions reported Puma sightings. That I find a little far-fetched. Unless you mean the shoes, which is about all I get in the google image search results for the term "black puma".

. . . for the record, I'm kinda afraid to search for "black cougar" . . . at least, from my work computer.

Alas, at this point it looks like I'll have to settle for the most probable answer, which is the misidentification of a house cat. I'll definitely be paying closer attention to tracks this summer, just in case I can find some proof of something cool. ;)

Oh, and the "weird looking" track we saw appears to be that of a muskrat. My money was on possum, which is similar. Lots of mouse and rabbit tracks. All much more recent than the "cat sighting". Surprisingly, I didn't see any deer tracks.

GeorgeLeRoyTirebiter
2010-Feb-23, 10:21 PM
The only episode of History Channel's MonsterQuest that I've bothered to watch was about giant black cat sightings. Most sightings do seem to be misidentified house cats. They claimed that while it's theoretically possible, there's never been a single documented case of a melanistic (black) cougar. They also interviewed a park ranger who lamented that reported sightings of black cougars far outnumber sightings of normal tan-colored cougars.

Fazor
2010-Feb-23, 11:48 PM
The only episode of History Channel's MonsterQuest that I've bothered to watch was about giant black cat sightings. Most sightings do seem to be misidentified house cats. They claimed that while it's theoretically possible, there's never been a single documented case of a melanistic (black) cougar. They also interviewed a park ranger who lamented that reported sightings of black cougars far outnumber sightings of normal tan-colored cougars.

I wonder if that's because people picture the typical black panther, so they think that's what they see.

If anything unusual, I'd suspect a bobcat. It's a remote possibility that it could be a mountain lion. But the simplist explanation is that it was a large, but regular, house cat.

(For what it's worth, I don't half mind the 'Monster Quests' that are about known creatures out of their element, or of exceptional size. They're still not approached in any scientific way, but at least they're halfway plausable. The best I've seen was about sharks coming inland through freshwater rivers, which has indeed been documented. Bigfoot, on the other hand, still has not been. ;))

JustAFriend
2010-Feb-24, 02:40 AM
I've seen a couple of panthers and bobcats here in Florida (I'm just north of West Palm Beach and have also worked with a local wildlife rescue center).

But I originally came from Columbus and the ONLY way I think you might have seen a big cat in Central Ohio is if someone had a pet that got loose (yes people do illegally get hold of them...)

Fazor
2010-Feb-24, 02:47 AM
Yeah. We were at our Vet's office this weekend just to pick up a refill of our dog's seizure medicine. While we were waiting we were watching a slide-show they had put together consisting of pictures of some of the animals they've treated, with cliche music such as "eye of the tiger" in the background.

Anyway, one of the pictures showed a zebra. Tara said something about how cool the zebra was, and the girl at the desk said "Oh yeah! We get all kinds of neat animals! We've even treated lions!"

. . . so yeah, people have them. I think the lions were from a rescue center. But you never know.

Again, I find it interesting to learn that there's been many sightins of big cats in the area throughout the last few decades. But really, there's been many reported sightings of bigfoot too; doesn't mean he's real either.

Swift
2010-Feb-24, 03:37 AM
Hey Fazor this might help.
http://www.xkcd.com/702/
:lol: ROFL
That was the best I've seen in a while. Forwarded to all my nature geek friends.

chrlzs
2010-Feb-24, 07:52 AM
... (friend's dog was missing, and my parents live close enough where it'd be possible for the dog to make it's way out there . . . dog has since returned, thankfully).

Anyway, while talking to her, she was telling me...




...your friend's dog can talk?

Wow.

Who cares about the big cat...

Van Rijn
2010-Feb-24, 10:05 AM
Recently there was a news story from fairly close by, about a mountain lion attacking a boy's dog. Only this one didn't go do well for the cat: This was apparently a good sized dog, a pit bull/german sheppard mix.

And the teenager had a secret weapon. He ran back to the house for a displayed "ninja sword," pulled it from its sheath, and ran back to the fight. There he could see the cat now had the upper paw in the battle. It was time to go Ninja on that cat. Apparently it was a glancing glow, because the cat was still able to run off, but it did the job. The dog ended up with minor injuries.

The animal control people still say there is some question whether it was a mountain lion, but it wouldn't be that surprising here.

Here's an article:

http://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2010/02/11/Dog-sword-wielding-teen-drive-off-lion/UPI-20651265915233/

DonM435
2010-Feb-24, 01:58 PM
My wife and I (and our female cat) adopted a newborn, orphaned feral cat that someone found. We bottle-fed the little guy until he could eat for himself. He grew like crazy, was soon bigger than his adoptive sister, all on Purina One and water and hardly anything else. He must be 25 pounds by now, and I can barely pick him up.

If we let him out of the house, he'd probably scare people, though he still acts much like a friendly puppy.

Cougar
2010-Feb-24, 02:25 PM
There are two breeds of cats that can be taken for wild at a distance. one is the Ocicat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocicat), the other is the Savannah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savannah_%28cat%29).

Here's my ocicat. Like you say, they're medium to large. Now, Maine Coon cats, they're XL.

Fazor
2010-Feb-24, 02:45 PM
My cat was between 25-30 lbs, but he was fat big, not long/tall big. We didn't feed him any more than normal. Must have been "big boned" ;)

Lianachan
2010-Feb-24, 03:04 PM
Recently there was a news story from fairly close by, about a mountain lion attacking a boy's dog. Only this one didn't go do well for the cat: This was apparently a good sized dog, a pitt bull/german sheppard mix.

And the teenager had a secret weapon. He ran back to the house for a displayed "ninja sword",pulled it from its sheath, and ran back to the fight. There he could see the cat now had the upper paw in the battle. It was time to go Ninja on that cat. Apparently it was a glancing glow, because the cat was still able to run off, but it did the job. The dog ended up with minor injuries.

The animal control people still say there is some question whether it was a mountain lion, but it wouldn't be that surprising here.

Here's an article:

http://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2010/02/11/Dog-sword-wielding-teen-drive-off-lion/UPI-20651265915233/

I'm glad I live in a country where there's practically no dangerous wild life, and no people running around with swords*!

* Except in some parts of Glasgow.

Rue
2010-Feb-24, 03:53 PM
Cougars around the Great Lakes is not unusual. As far as physical evidence goes there was one shot in Chicago and there has been DNA found not far from Niagara falls.

Swift
2010-Feb-24, 04:38 PM
Speaking of cats, big and small, and wild animals, this story from back in 2006 (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/06/060613-cat-bear.html) is one of my favorites.

Fazor
2010-Feb-24, 04:52 PM
Speaking of cats, big and small, and wild animals, this story from back in 2006 (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/06/060613-cat-bear.html) is one of my favorites.

Haha, awesome. Although I feel bad for the bear. Now he gets seen as scaredy-cat--er--bear, when really he was just being nice by not ending the cat with a simple flick of it's wrist. ;)

manxman
2010-Feb-24, 05:22 PM
My friend's enormous manx Suki, only recently passed away, used to get animal control out to his place at least once a year looking for "Bobcats".

Don.
I will source and locate a litter of pure Manxies if you would like your own.
Take a picture and forward it.
I am Manx and it would be easy for me to find you one, however any fee that may or may not be involved for the kitten would have too be paid direct to the breeder.
You would have to pay the vets fee direct to the vet for his examination / report and his shipping of the kitten of your choice to the location of your choice.
I dont want a fee or anything, this isnt spam, just my good deed for the day .. karma and all that.

I will do this for anyone on this thread time allowing PM me.

BigDon
2010-Feb-24, 06:59 PM
Thanks for the thought, Manx.

No pets* at the apartment were I live at the moment and my step-father who has a nice house and yard has his hands full.

But I'll will definately tell my friend "Ol' Wierd Bob", who lost the cat, about your generous offer when he gets back from Los Angeles this weekend.








*Though in my part of the world anything that has to live in a tank or terrarium is a "decoration" and not a pet. Insurance company definition. Pets raise your premiums and decorations don't. That's how businessmen get away with the big lobby aquarium at the office.

Kaptain K
2010-Feb-24, 07:08 PM
Now, Maine Coon cats, they're XL.

Not only that, but they are often polydactyl (extra toes).

Fazor
2010-Feb-24, 07:12 PM
*Though in my part of the world anything that has to live in a tank or terrarium is a "decoration" and not a pet. Insurance company definition. Pets raise your premiums and decorations don't. That's how businessmen get away with the big lobby aquarium at the office.

They actually get to raise your premiums out there because of pets? :think: And people here complain about their insurance!

Ara Pacis
2010-Feb-24, 07:22 PM
I'm glad I live in a country where there's practically no dangerous wild life, and no people running around with swords*!

* Except in some parts of Glasgow.

People? I thought there could be only one?

Lianachan
2010-Feb-24, 07:24 PM
People? I thought there could be only one?

I'm guessing you've not spent much time in Glasgow!

BigDon
2010-Feb-24, 07:25 PM
They actually get to raise your premiums out there because of pets? :think: And people here complain about their insurance!

Landlords of apartments' and offices property insurance rates climb if they allow pets. A subtle but distinct difference.

Sorry for not being clear.

Fazor
2010-Feb-24, 07:42 PM
Ah, well we still do not do that here. I'm not in claims, but technically speaking, any damage a tenant's pet did to a landlord's property would not be something that would be covered under the landlord's property insurance anyway. As for liability arising from, say, a dog bite, I suppose if a tenant's dog bit someone, that person could come back against the landlord as the property owner. The insurance should pay there (though we'd probably subrogate against the pet's owner).

But we still don't charge higher premiums due to that exposure. We do exclude dog bites from coverage for certain breeds (only three; I believe it's pitbull, doberman, and american bulldog, but I'd have to look it up). We would also exclude future bites from an animal after a claim had been filed.

BigDon
2010-Feb-24, 07:58 PM
Faz, I was taught that's how it was when I was doing the aquarium thing for a living. I asked my old fish mentor how they could get pets in offices and that's the story he trotted passed me.

Fazor
2010-Feb-24, 08:13 PM
Could very well be true. Insurance laws (what we're allowed to factor, how much we can charge, what we can offer, etc) are governed on the State level.

Or it could have been something that was common practice but isn't anymore. I just thought it was interesting. If I could have one more way to gouge customers, I could make more money and avoid having to actually work, allowing me to continue to post on BAUT all day! (Just kidding!)

sabianq
2010-Feb-24, 08:33 PM
growing up in the mountians of colorado, we would have cougars (mountian lions) that romed free as the foot hills were the cats natural habatat.

as people moved deeper into the hills, the cats were more and more becomming a nusance, they had a tendency to kill house cats and dogs.
i believe that it is illegal to kill them unless they become a danger to humans, but it was not rare that the anamal contro would trap them and relocate them to isolated areas.

i remember an incident where a friend of my sisters was out cross training and was killed by a mountian lion..
apparently he had run by a den and the mother saw him as a threat so she chased him down..
i do not know what happened to the cat, but i am assuming that anamal control corrected the problem..

Tog
2010-Feb-24, 09:15 PM
We've had a few mountain lions wander into Salt Lake. By Salt Lake, I mean the metro area. The two I remember were down at the south end but still well into the inhabited zones. FOr a few years, school kids ages 6 to 12 were taking home fliers about what to do if they see a cougar or bobcat that won't leave them alone. Most of the Wasatch front (5 counties) is easily within 20 miles of mountain lion habitat with a lot of the more expensive houses built right up on the mountains.

I work near the center of the valley (river nearby) and we've had deer hit by cars within a mile of it.

BigDon
2010-Feb-24, 09:52 PM
i do not know what happened to the cat, but i am assuming that anamal control corrected the problem..

Tracking dogs combined with armed humans. For when you're not playing around anymore. :(

Van Rijn
2010-Feb-24, 11:19 PM
I'm glad I live in a country where there's practically no dangerous wild life, and no people running around with swords*!

* Except in some parts of Glasgow.

Mountain lion (cougar) attacks are rare in California, especially down in the well populated areas in the valley, though you do hear about them occasionally. Usually, when they happen, it is an animal that starts snacking on the local pets. Attacks on humans are very rare, usually because of a sick or desperate animal.

Though I'm a little concerned that we're getting many more deer in the suburbs, which might attract the predators.

Regarding the sword, owning a sword is one thing, but running around with one off your property could easily get you into legal trouble. This was an unusual situation (which is why it made the news).

Lianachan
2010-Feb-24, 11:32 PM
Mountain lion (cougar) attacks are rare in California, especially down in the well populated areas in the valley, though you do hear about them occasionally. Usually, when they happen, it is an animal that starts snacking on the local pets. Attacks on humans are very rare, usually because of a sick or desperate animal.

We have a venomous snake around here, but that's about it. Of course, you wouldn't want to get into an argument with a herd of cows (especially Highland cattle) or any large animal, but there's nothing that's terribly dangerous. I suppose, if you slip and fall very unluckily, you could conceivably choke on a frog or something.

HenrikOlsen
2010-Feb-25, 12:01 AM
Regarding the sword, owning a sword is one thing, but running around with one off your property could easily get you into legal trouble. This was an unusual situation (which is why it made the news).
Terry Pratchett, in his recent lecture on voluntary death, bemoaned the fact that even a Knight isn't allowed to wear his sword in public anymore.
He incidentally made his own the hard way, starting with digging up the ore and smelting it in his garden.

BigDon
2010-Feb-25, 12:58 AM
Mountain lion (cougar) attacks are rare in California, especially down in the well populated areas in the valley, though you do hear about them occasionally. Usually, when they happen, it is an animal that starts snacking on the local pets. Attacks on humans are very rare, usually because of a sick or desperate animal.

I disagree, Mr. Rijn.

For one, sick and desperate animals usually don't take risks in experimentation with new food stuffs and prey items. It's actually healthy, well off animals that can afford to do so. I know, seemed counterintuitive to me too.

For two, a lot of animal attacks aren't reported widely. When I was in San Diego in the service, twice packs of rabid coyotes infected the local stray and feral dog populations and became nightly news with at least a dozen attacks on humans.

Shoot I thought it was national news. Really got bad in the suburbs. Twice the daring reporters or their crews doing live coverage were attacked and bitten and twice I saw police shooting some dog down with their sidearms with one time not being fast enough and a deputy who looked just like the Sheriff in Corner Gas got bit one the leg by a rabid pitbull. Came out from under a porch at them. Foamy mouth and the works.

Barely anybody out of San Diego County even heard about it! Cheeses off the Chamber of Commerce and lowers property values.

For three, "rare" is relative. I've lived on the Peninsula my whole life and remember all the way back to the early sixties. So I think of all the ones you hadn't heard about as being contemporary as well. :)

Ara Pacis
2010-Feb-25, 03:02 AM
Terry Pratchett, in his recent lecture on voluntary death, bemoaned the fact that even a Knight isn't allowed to wear his sword in public anymore.
He incidentally made his own the hard way, starting with digging up the ore and smelting it in his garden.

How Twelfth Century of them.

They can have my sword when they pry it from my rolled steel gauntlet.

Rue
2010-Feb-25, 04:17 PM
Cougars around the Great Lakes is not unusual. As far as physical evidence goes there was one shot in Chicago and there has been DNA found not far from Niagara falls.

I just realized how bad this post might look.

Here is the Chicago story (http://urban-woodswalker.blogspot.com/2008/04/cougar-killed-by-chicago-police.html). This Cougar's DNA test showed it has lineage going back to South Dakota, therefore not an escaped pet.

DNA found in droppings in a place called Wainfleet (http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2009/05/24/9551121-sun.html) about 21 miles from Buffalo, NY.
This DNA was also North American Cougar (not South American, that is commonly used as pets.)

I was attempting to use places where physical evidence was found that would bracket Ohio to the east and west.

Fazor
2010-Feb-25, 04:51 PM
As further evidence, my Alma mater is Ohio University, which isn't far from here. And their mascot? That's right, the OU bobcats! Nail-in-the-coffin! ;)

But seriously:

I was attempting to use places where physical evidence was found that would bracket Ohio to the east and west.
I did appreciate that bit of info. And, while I'm a few hundred miles south of the Lakes, it still supports my general opinion of the matter: it's possible that it was some sort of 'big cat'--bobcat being the far most likely--it's more probable that it was just a regular cat.

And, like many 'sightings' of various circumstances, it will likely stay unknown. Unless there's another sighting or tracks turn up. I'll just know to really keep my eyes open this spring and summer. I hope to spend a lot of time in the field and surrounding woods, as I hope to take up archery in the goal to take up bow hunting. A goal I set last year, but did not find the financial and temporal means to realize said goal.

I think I'm becoming too much a science dork, as I'm almost more excited to pick up some plaster so I can make casts of tracks I find, so as to have solid proof if I ever find anything. So thanks for that, BAUT.

Kaptain K
2010-Feb-25, 05:16 PM
Bobcats are not "big cats". They are not much larger than house cats. In fact, their size ranges overlap (very) slightly. A large Maine Coon or Siberian tom can be slightly larger than a small adult female bobcat.

BigDon
2010-Feb-25, 05:28 PM
As further evidence, my Alma mater is Ohio University, which isn't far from here. And their mascot? That's right, the OU bobcats! Nail-in-the-coffin! ;)

But seriously:

I did appreciate that bit of info. And, while I'm a few hundred miles south of the Lakes, it still supports my general opinion of the matter: it's possible that it was some sort of 'big cat'--bobcat being the far most likely--it's more probable that it was just a regular cat.

And, like many 'sightings' of various circumstances, it will likely stay unknown. Unless there's another sighting or tracks turn up. I'll just know to really keep my eyes open this spring and summer. I hope to spend a lot of time in the field and surrounding woods, as I hope to take up archery in the goal to take up bow hunting. A goal I set last year, but did not find the financial and temporal means to realize said goal.

I think I'm becoming too much a science dork, as I'm almost more excited to pick up some plaster so I can make casts of tracks I find, so as to have solid proof if I ever find anything. So thanks for that, BAUT.

One time a friend's mother sent the guys out to run a raccoon out of her hen house in the middle of the night. A serious egg thief who had been making semi weekly visits. (This was up in Berryessa, near Puta Creek.) Given a single shot 12 guage to end the matter as well.

Imagine the consternation when instead of a future Daniel Boone hat it turned out to be...Yogi Bear! Apparently tired of pic-a-nic baskets and going for the chicken nuggets.

Just reminding you sometimes snarks are boojums.

Fazor
2010-Feb-25, 05:30 PM
Bobcats are not "big cats". They are not much larger than house cats. In fact, their size ranges overlap (very) slightly. A large Maine Coon or Siberian tom can be slightly larger than a small adult female bobcat.
Yeah, I'm aware. In fact, when I was researching their prints, I realized that even finding those wouldn't be an easy identification (for me) because they're about the same size as other cats. Which is why I'll probably never know for sure what they saw. That's the nature of evidence-less sightings.

I'm just grouping bobcats into the "big cats" category more based on their predator traits, less on size. Or, the ability to take down animals larger than that of house cats (I've never known a house cat to take down a goat or a sheep, but I'm also not a cat expert).

Oops, thank you Wikipedia. I didn't realize 'Big Cat' was an actual biological term used to mean the same as 'Great Cats'. My mistake.

Fazor
2010-Feb-25, 05:34 PM
Just reminding you sometimes snarks are boojums.
Haha, indeed! And I didn't mean I intended to hunt this particular creature. The risk of stumbling into a 'hazardous species' is one you always take when in the wild. I don't think I've ever heard of it happening, but theoretically you could come across a bear in these parts. Last summer, within a few miles of my house, someone netted a hundreds-of-pounds wild hog (dangerous buggers if you tick 'em off). And coyotes are common. Not "running wild at every turn" common. But common enough that you'll likely see a few per year if you spend any amount of time outdoors.

BigDon
2010-Feb-25, 05:36 PM
Oops, thank you Wikipedia. I didn't realize 'Big Cat' was an actual biological term used to mean the same as 'Great Cats'. My mistake.

Hey, at least you haven't be addressing one of your favorite moderators by the wrong first name for the last two weeks. Fortunately he seems to think I was addressing someone else so I'll just let it slid off the forums. :doh:

BigDon
2010-Feb-25, 05:40 PM
Just reminding you sometimes snarks are boojums.
Haha, indeed! And I didn't mean I intended to hunt this particular creature. The risk of stumbling into a 'hazardous species' is one you always take when in the wild.

A backyard henhouse is "the wild"? You DO need to get out more.

You're going to make me have to hitch-hike out there, aren't you? :)

Fazor
2010-Feb-25, 05:44 PM
Hey, at least you haven't be addressing one of your favorite moderators by the wrong first name for the last two weeks. Fortunately he seems to think I was addressing someone else so I'll just let it slid off the forums. :doh:

I'm so bad with names on this (or any other) forum! There's people that have been around since long before I joined, who are frequent posters, of whom I still have to look up a post before I can address them by the proper name.

As for posters real names? Fogeddaboudit. (Though ones like yours and Gillian's are easy enough to remember).

Fazor
2010-Feb-25, 05:46 PM
A backyard henhouse is "the wild"? You DO need to get out more.

You're going to make me have to hitch-hike out there, aren't you? :)

No no, the henhouse was your thing. My wild involves no hens (though the farmer who's property boarders ours* might have some. I'm not sure. I think he sticks to cattle though).

Eta: Heh, I still refer to my parent's house as 'ours', even though I no longer live there.

BigDon
2010-Feb-25, 05:49 PM
Oddly enough, I sometimes confuse yours and Korjik's posts.

Fazor
2010-Feb-25, 06:01 PM
Anything that can possibly help me hide from accountability is a good thing, so no problem. ;) And now I know that if I ever offend you too much, I just have to say, "Hey, that wasn't me! It was KORJIK!" (and then run, of course).

Ara Pacis
2010-Feb-25, 06:23 PM
Last summer, within a few miles of my house, someone netted a hundreds-of-pounds wild hog (dangerous buggers if you tick 'em off).

Have you heard about the "Pig Bomb"? They may become more common if that's true.

Rue
2010-Feb-25, 06:24 PM
.....a few hundred miles south of the Lakes.

Are you saying there's more to Ohio then just Sandusky? ;)

Fazor
2010-Feb-25, 06:34 PM
Have you heard about the "Pig Bomb"? They may become more common if that's true.
Never heard the term. Here's the archived article description (http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/lancastereaglegazette/access/1703568211.html?FMT=ABS&date=Mar+30,+2009), though you can no longer get the full article without paying for it.

350 to 425 lbs. More than I'd want coming after me were it guarding it's territory. :)

Ara Pacis
2010-Feb-25, 06:57 PM
Never heard the term.

It's the idea that wild pigs are over-poplating and causing problems in the south and may spread north. Some think it's due to interbreeding with russian boars also let loose.

BigDon
2010-Feb-25, 07:45 PM
Why would you need to interbreed with Russian boars to overpopulate? :)

Fazor
2010-Feb-25, 07:46 PM
Why would you need to interbreed with Russian boars to overpopulate? :)

You're obviously not familiar with the general appearance and grooming habits of people 'round these parts . . .

:lol:

BigDon
2010-Feb-25, 07:50 PM
Believe it or not I know some serious psychos that hunt those things with heavy pistols from the ground. They induce a charge while standing behind a single sharpened stake set at an angle.

I don't hunt with them. Don't have quite the same "thrill issues" they do.

Kaptain K
2010-Feb-25, 07:54 PM
Why would you need to interbreed with Russian boars to overpopulate? :)

Hybrid vigor?

chrissy
2010-Feb-25, 08:05 PM
Hey Fazor just be glad it isn't this big kitteh (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2J6uUMeAVW8&feature=related) from the Goodies. Something I used to watch as a kid. ;)

BigDon
2010-Feb-25, 08:16 PM
Used to watch them on PBS, oh, about a million years ago! Thanks Chrissy.

chrissy
2010-Feb-25, 08:44 PM
Used to watch them on PBS, oh, about a million years ago! Thanks Chrissy.

Yeah I didn't want to write a million years ago, just shows the age..;) Oh those Goodies. :D

Tog
2010-Feb-26, 09:54 AM
Believe it or not I know some serious psychos that hunt those things with heavy pistols from the ground. They induce a charge while standing behind a single sharpened stake set at an angle.

I don't hunt with them. Don't have quite the same "thrill issues" they do.

My dad is one of them. He got his first one with a .44 Desert Eagle and bullets he'd built for the purpose. He had to fire a second shot to get the guide to stop screaming "Hit it again, it's gonna get up!"

I was also present where a guy got one with a spear. I'm not sure it's forum worthy though.

mugaliens
2010-Feb-26, 10:36 AM
We have bobcats in my parents' neighborhood. And deer. And bears. And foxes, coyotes, and the occasional mountain lion and wolf.

Deer are by far the most prevalent, but I've seen all the rest except mountain lion. They have pics of 'em all. Only one of mountain lions in the last 22 years. Three of wolves, but the rest are common.

It just pays to be prudent.

And oh, I'm but a mile to the East, on the other side of I-25, and we've have the same, sans the deer, mountain lions, bears, bobcats and wolves.

Ara Pacis
2010-Feb-26, 10:25 PM
We don't have much for dangerous animals here, not even much for poisonous snakes. Some Coyotes and deer that like to commit suicide-by-car. Unless you go into certain parts of the river... there are claims of man-sized catfish in certain deep areas. I don't know if it's true, but I've seen some that are pretty big.

mugaliens
2010-Feb-28, 08:13 AM
Where's "here," Ara? When I lived in New Orleans, a neighbor was a contstruction diver. He finally quit after 22 years of loving it when he came face to face with a catfish in the big muddy while working on some underwater construction project.

He sold insurance for the remainder of his life.

Ara Pacis
2010-Feb-28, 06:50 PM
Where's "here," Ara? When I lived in New Orleans, a neighbor was a contstruction diver. He finally quit after 22 years of loving it when he came face to face with a catfish in the big muddy while working on some underwater construction project.

He sold insurance for the remainder of his life.

A moderate sized river and a minor tributary to the Miss in the American Midwest. There's a dam where swirling water or previous excavation made the river ~50ft deep and a mile downstream another spot where a company used to excavate sand or some sort of mineral where it's claimed to be 50ft or deeper, although it might have filled in a bit after the company ceased operation many decades ago, plus lots of spots where it cuts deep under bedrock outcrops.

BigDon
2010-Feb-28, 09:04 PM
THOSE are the big cats I enjoy hunting. I stopped raying as a matter of just because, decades ago*, and I found that stingray gear adapts itself quite well to big catfish. If I could only land one...but that's on me.









*Okay, it's because they blubber and cry when you land them. Especialy bat rays. With big tears and everything.

Fazor
2010-Mar-01, 02:21 AM
I've only caught one stingray. Was fishing the canal behind my Aunt's house. Thank god my grandfather happened along as I landed the thing; I would have had no idea how to get it off the hook. That was probably 15 years ago.

mugaliens
2010-Mar-01, 09:53 AM
As a kid collecting sandollars we were told to shuffle our feet to feel for them. I didn't find out until much later that was also to help keep from stepping on a ray...

Gosh, out parents were bold with our lives! Gaters, moccasins, stingrays, jellyfish...

Lianachan
2010-Mar-01, 01:05 PM
News story (http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/dorset/hi/people_and_places/nature/newsid_8533000/8533592.stm) on the BBC website about an increasingly sighted, alleged big cat in Dorset in the south of England.

eburacum45
2011-Aug-26, 10:12 PM
Big black cats seen in the United Kingdom are almost certainly misidentified domestic cats, seen in unusual conditions. They tend to be black, which makes it unlikely that they are feral big cats- black leopards or jaguars are rare and valuable, and unlikely to be released into the wild and extremely unlikely to exist in the wild as breeding populations.

It would be interesting to be proved wrong, but that seems unlikely in this country.