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nimbus2506
2010-Mar-11, 08:56 PM
Hey guys,

So I have joined the astronomy outreach program at my local university and I was told something that seemed unusual that I wanted to follow up.

I was told that the person who coined the big bang theory was a revent.

However I seem to be having trouble finding out his name. Some pages tell me his name is Gary B. However searches turn up nothing. I could just be me and my search methods but I doubt it.

So my question is what is his name and does he have a bio or a website?

Seems pretty strange that someone who coined the big bang does not have the recognition that he should have. (assumed after a 25 minute search)

Thank you in advanced :)

slang
2010-Mar-11, 09:06 PM
Seems pretty strange that someone who coined the big bang does not have the recognition that he should have. (assumed after a 25 minute search)

If only you'd spent 1 minute of those on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang).. (3rd paragraph). I have no idea what a "revent" is, so can't help you there, sorry.

nimbus2506
2010-Mar-11, 09:14 PM
Ah opps, I've been told it was gary so I've been searching for gary.

Thank you anyway,

I meant preist, reverent or whatever they are called.
:)

pzkpfw
2010-Mar-11, 09:15 PM
Reverend?

nimbus2506
2010-Mar-11, 09:17 PM
That's it.

This may now be closed :)

gzhpcu
2010-Mar-11, 09:19 PM
I meant preist, reverent or whatever they are called.
:)
and "priest"..... that is "i before e, except after c". :)

slang
2010-Mar-11, 09:20 PM
This may now be closed :)

Nah, it'll stay open, and a discussion will pop up if Hoyle actually meant it to be a negative term to belittle the idea or not :)

korjik
2010-Mar-11, 09:44 PM
Naa, Hoyle was much more devious. He forsaw the development of internet forums, and made his statement deliberately ambigous so that the numerous arguements would keep his name and memory alive forever.

He was always puzzled on what the 'internet' was tho.

:)

forrest noble
2010-Mar-11, 10:18 PM
nimbus2506,

Who coined the name the Big Bang?

Sir Fredrick Hoyle a renowned English Physicist developed his own cosmological model and coining the term "Big Bang" to describe the alternative model at that time. This description/ name was given on his BBC radio broadcast on the 28th of March 1949.

His best recognized contribution to physics was his part in developing the theory of stellar/ supernovae nucleosynthesis. Since he did not believe in the BB model he needed another way to explain the existence of all the elements which at the time were asserted to have been created by the BB. He therefore proposed stellar nucleosynthesis, along with others. The same theory today is still recognized as being valid by nearly all practitioners.

mmaayeh
2010-Mar-11, 11:02 PM
Actually, there is a wiki about the origins of the big bang theory. And, it turns out that the originator was Monsignor Georges Henri Joseph Édouard Lemaître a Belgian Roman Catholic Preist. I believe the whole debate about the origins was about that the universe is eternal and static vs. dynamic and finite. So, Lemaître being a priest was seeking the origins of creation, so to speak. He believed everything was created therefore, his impetus was to find a theory that explains the beginnings of the universe. Where previous thought, the universe was always there and static it had no beginning and it will not have any end -- it will last forever and had always existed.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lema%C3%AEtre

George
2010-Mar-11, 11:04 PM
His best recognized contribution to physics was his part in developing the theory of stellar/ supernovae nucleosynthesis. Since he did not believe in the BB model he needed another way to explain the existence of all the elements which at the time were asserted to have been created by the BB. He therefore proposed stellar nucleosynthesis, along with others. The same theory today is still recognized as being valid by nearly all practitioners. The irony througout the history of astronomy adds to its richness.

I am convinced that Hoyle did not intend this to be the pejorative that some, including me, have thought he intended it. But I have yet to get a grip on UK humor and subtle jabs, though I try. :)

Cougar
2010-Mar-12, 03:09 AM
...the originator was ... Lemaître, a Belgian Roman Catholic Preist.

I agree Lemaître (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lema%C3%AEtre) (1894 – 1966) is credited with being the first to propose the broad outlines of the big bang theory. Only he termed it the "primeval atom," which obviously lost the naming contest. And even though Lemaître had four first names, not one of them is Gary. :think: It's pretty tough searching the internet for somebody by their first name, I imagine.

But Nimbus, perhaps unintended, specified who "coined the big bang theory." That's where Hoyle (1915 – 2001) comes in. Simon Mitton's Conflict in the Cosmos, Fred Hoyle's Life in Science [2005] is a pretty good biography.

Ari Jokimaki
2010-Mar-12, 06:07 AM
It seems to me that the origin was Einstein but he just didn't realize it himself.

forrest noble
2010-Mar-12, 06:45 AM
George,

I loved the cool character that Fred Hoyle really was even though he may have looked like a nerd to some. Although most biographers hinted at his pejorative intent in coining The Big Bang name for Lemaître's Fireworks theory (his theoretical competitor), he later denied this intent in subsequent interviews but I also suspect the denial itself was tongue-in-cheek British humor such as you suggest, a half-hearted recharacterization of a subtle insult.

mmaayeh
2010-Mar-12, 07:08 AM
I agree Lemaître (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lema%C3%AEtre) (1894 – 1966) is credited with being the first to propose the broad outlines of the big bang theory. Only he termed it the "primeval atom," which obviously lost the naming contest. And even though Lemaître had four first names, not one of them is Gary. :think: It's pretty tough searching the internet for somebody by their first name, I imagine.

But Nimbus, perhaps unintended, specified who "coined the big bang theory." That's where Hoyle (1915 – 2001) comes in. Simon Mitton's Conflict in the Cosmos, Fred Hoyle's Life in Science [2005] is a pretty good biography.

Yes, that is absolutely correct. I believe Hoyle did coin the term "the big bang". But, what was just as interesting at that time was the two opposing groups view points on the origins of the universe and how the cosmological evidence build up to favor Lemaître (or the group of scientists that favored "big bang") eventually won out over Hoyle and his group lost out. Kind of nice to see science using multiple lines of evidence to build up and discount one theory and favor another. It is truly standing on the shoulder's of giants in the end. One thought leading to another thought while other thoughts dropping out because they do not stand up to the evidence. :)

George
2010-Mar-12, 02:20 PM
I loved the cool character that Fred Hoyle really was even though he may have looked like a nerd to some. Although most biographers hinted at his pejorative intent in coining The Big Bang name for Lemaître's Fireworks theory (his theoretical competitor), he later denied this intent in subsequent interviews but I also suspect the denial itself was tongue-in-cheek British humor such as you suggest, a half-hearted recharacterization of a subtle insult. Yes, it seems to have been more of a colorful poke than an out-right slap, which seems to be typical of his colorful character.

Strange
2010-Mar-12, 04:26 PM
Yes, it seems to have been more of a colorful poke than an out-right slap, which seems to be typical of his colorful character.

You mean colourful surely? ;)

George
2010-Mar-12, 05:44 PM
You mean colourful surely? ;) A fun point of affirmation; even the word invokes action. :)

Cougar
2010-Mar-13, 03:03 AM
Yes, it seems to have been more of a colorful poke than an out-right slap, which seems to be typical of his colorful character.

Did he say it during one of his BBC programs? about which Mitton wrote:



Lord Simon turned to Sydney Goldstein, then professor of applied mathematics at Manchester, for an expert opinion. Goldstein, who had been a fellow of St. John's College, responded by saying it all depended what programming the [BBC] corporation wanted. "If they want entertainment, the lectures are fine. If they want science they are not fine. The best astronomers would not agree with many of his conclusions. Hoyle has not the humility of a good scientist." [p.143]

George
2010-Mar-13, 05:36 PM
Did he say it during one of his BBC programs?
Yes. Here is a wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Hoyle) account.


...and Hoyle was a strong critic of the Big Bang. Ironically, he is responsible for coining the term "Big Bang" on BBC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Broadcasting_Corporation) radio's Third Programme broadcast at 1830 GMT on 28 March 1949. It is popularly reported that Hoyle intended this to be pejorative, but the script from which he read aloud clearly shows that he intended the expression to help his listeners.[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Hoyle#cite_note-5) In addition, Hoyle explicitly denied that he was being insulting and said it was just a striking image meant to emphasize the difference between the two theories for radio listeners.

It seems many if not most were against Lemaitre's idea. Eddington was certainly opposed to it. He said that "philosophically, the notion of a beginning of the present order of Nature is repugnant to me... By sweeping it far enough away from the sphere of our current physical problems, we fancy we have got rid of it. It is only when some of us are so misguided as to try to get back billions of years into the past that we find the seeping all piled up like a high wall and forming a boundary -- a beginning of of time -- which we cannot climb over." [The Day we Found the Universe, Marcia Bartusiak, pg. 256. A book you will enjoy, if you don't have it already.]

Eddington, many years before Hoyle's comment, stated that he did "not believe that the present order of things started off with a bang." [Ibid]