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Argos
2010-Mar-11, 10:05 PM
Few years ago one of the members here said that Virtual Reality would be the last human invention. Im starting to believe it.

How about his: A child starved to death while her parents cared for an imaginary child instead [on Slate Magazine (http://www.slate.com/id/2247465/)]

A quote from the article:

Maybe this is just a weird story about a sick couple on the other side of the planet. But look in the mirror.

Any thoughts?

TheHalcyonYear
2010-Mar-12, 04:55 AM
Few years ago one of the members here said that Virtual Reality would be the last human invention. Im starting to believe it.

How about his: A child starved to death while her parents cared for an imaginary child instead [on Slate Magazine (http://www.slate.com/id/2247465/)]

A quote from the article:

Maybe this is just a weird story about a sick couple on the other side of the planet. But look in the mirror.

Any thoughts?
A heartbreaking story and a very unfortunate occurrence, but I don't think it necessarily spells doom. Each breakthrough from the invention of fire to the printing press, to the ability to fly has been heralded as the invention that would spell the doom of humanity. With each invention there have come uses and abuses; those who could handle change and those who could not.

Stregone
2010-Mar-12, 04:57 AM
I think its more the problem with people.

Sententia
2010-Mar-12, 05:07 AM
I doubt Virtual Reality is that harmful to the world.. more so the brain being taken from the body, and continuously kept alive with future tech and reality being put into surrogate robots, or virtual worlds. It'll never really be virtual reality unless we leave our actuality first and if people are really that lazy to have children and not take care of them they'll spend that actuality in jail.

SolusLupus
2010-Mar-12, 05:14 AM
A quote from the article:

Maybe this is just a weird story about a sick couple on the other side of the planet. But look in the mirror.

Any thoughts?

I looked in the mirror.

Sorry, silly scare cliches like that haven't convinced me I would do the same thing. Try again?



There's always going to be scary unusual stories like these. If we went off of them like they were statistically relevant and made decisions based on them, people wouldn't even be allowed have children. How many parents lock their children in the cellar for months to years on end? I can pull out tons of newspaper reports where that very thing happens. Should I act like you're going to?

Would you see a news report of people with "virtual pets/babies" that didn't kill their kids? No?

And the argument we're getting out of touch with the world? You think that people wouldn't get out of touch by getting in conversations, becoming involved with other people or parties, attending theaters, writing novels or letters in the past? "Getting lost in our own world" is nothing new. It's certainly not going to cause civilization to topple on our heads.

Who are the fear mongers here? Look in the mirror.

Argos
2010-Mar-12, 01:45 PM
Disclaimer, as I feel being accused of fear mongering: I spend 12 hours in front of the computer every day, for professional reasons. Still, I got a life. But I do see people detaching from real life, especially on social networks.

ineluki
2010-Mar-12, 01:52 PM
How about his: A child starved to death while her parents cared for an imaginary child instead


Great, somebody found a new scapegoat to excuse stupidity.

Argos
2010-Mar-12, 01:57 PM
The problem exists. Call it stupidity, bad use of technology. Still, it exists.

Ilya
2010-Mar-12, 01:59 PM
How is social network NOT "real life"? I am dealing with real other people on it.

You could just as easily claim that "all this talking, visiting and socializing detaches people from real life of plowing fields and whipping slaves."

Granted, OP was about virtual reality, not social networks. When we get truly automated interactive VR environments (we are not there yet, in games like WoW you interact mostly with other players), it will become possible for a person to disconnect from "real" people completely. OTOH, if virtual environment is so rich that normal, social (as opposed to introverts, Aspies, and loners in general) people prefer it to dealing with each other, then we have a strong AI, and for all practical purposes world's population has just multiplied many times. I do not see it happening any time soon.

skyline5k
2010-Mar-12, 02:07 PM
I looked in the mirror.

Sorry, silly scare cliches like that haven't convinced me I would do the same thing. Try again?I looked in the mirror, and it scared the bejeezus out of me.

I haven't shaved in A WEEK!

Argos
2010-Mar-12, 02:23 PM
Granted, OP was about virtual reality, not social networks.

Whoa, you make it look like Ive made the story. Its just a heads up, meant to a light discussion. Im not proposing anything, except that Ive witnessed this phenomenon.

Im not to blame.

(*) Social networks can be virtual too.

SolusLupus
2010-Mar-12, 05:26 PM
Disclaimer, as I feel being accused of fear mongering: I spend 12 hours in front of the computer every day, for professional reasons. Still, I got a life. But I do see people detaching from real life, especially on social networks.

I was accusing anyone who was seriously making the "Look in the mirror" claim of fear mongering. You quoted it, but I'm not sure if you were taking it seriously.


The problem exists. Call it stupidity, bad use of technology. Still, it exists.

And some parents throw their children in the closet for months on end. That problem exists. I'm just not sure how relevant it is to the average person.

I just find it kind of odd, if not somewhat disgusting, to use the death of a neglected baby for this kind of "social commentary".

Argos
2010-Mar-12, 05:52 PM
I just find it kind of odd, if not somewhat disgusting, to use the death of a neglected baby for this kind of "social commentary".

I it' s a fully legitimate subject to discuss, given the extraordinary impact of the Internet [and virtual interactions and relationships] on our lives. But please dont discuss me. Discuss the subject in the OP. Or dont.

SolusLupus
2010-Mar-12, 06:12 PM
Okay. The story:

A baby starved because its parents were too busy off in a PC Bong.

That sucks.

That's all there is to say.

Argos
2010-Mar-12, 06:14 PM
I never said it was cool. It is a social disease. Diseases suck [especially when we identify ourselves with the sickness].

SolusLupus
2010-Mar-12, 06:31 PM
Except that your statement seems to be entirely in disagreement with the actual definition of "disease". Not the first time someone hijacked a word for "social commentary".

News flash: Neglectful parents weren't born within the last few decades. They've always been around. You want a disease that can be attributed? It's called being a homo sapien. And even in nature, you can find "neglectful parents" -- more neglectful than the species should be on the whole, anyways.

Your extreme example as being some sort of "symptom of a disease" is nonsense, pure and simple.

Argos
2010-Mar-12, 06:37 PM
If youre unable to see how this is similar to Internet addiction, which many people [including members of this board] have admitted suffering from, then I can do nothing for you. I have no theory to prove, and no strong feelings [if any] about the subject.

BTW, I thought you said you were done with this thread. Lets move on.

SolusLupus
2010-Mar-12, 06:39 PM
I said "that's all there is to say [about the OP]"; I never made any indication that I was "done with this thread" -- I somehow think that if that was my true meaning, I would have, you know, said it. You claimed I should deal with the OP, and I dealt with it -- then you then made a post about how there's a "disease" that needs to be addressed, and I responded to that claim.

Kindly do not put words in my mouth. Thank you.

And you're right. You "can do nothing for me"; I don't think I should throw up my arms and say that the sky is falling because of two neglectful parents, because like I said, neglectful parents have always existed, they exist today, and they will always exist. If you don't want to believe that, then there's nothing I can do for you. Sorry.

Buttercup
2010-Mar-12, 06:54 PM
Disclaimer, as I feel being accused of fear mongering: I spend 12 hours in front of the computer every day, for professional reasons. Still, I got a life. But I do see people detaching from real life, especially on social networks.

I agree and am generally online 55 hours a week due to work (in my home).

Reality isn't always easy to deal with, but it's there. And I too am concerned about what seems increasing levels (even amongst older people) to bury themselves in a make-believe world. Escapism run amok?

It's very hard nowadays, imo, finding people (in real-life) who want to converse at even a moderately meaningful level. :(

As for the parents in the story, I didn't even read it. :mad: Not good for my blood pressure.

Argos
2010-Mar-12, 07:08 PM
Reality isn't always easy to deal with, but it's there. And I too am concerned about what seems increasing levels (even amongst older people) to bury themselves in a make-believe world. Escapism run amok?

Well, thanks, Buttercup. Thats what it is all about.

Mister Earl
2010-Mar-13, 02:44 AM
My grandmother used to tell me that her grandparents used to tell her that the invention of the radio was corrupting the nation's youth. My own father told me of his parents telling him that television was having a terrible effect on kids. My own father told me that computers and the internet are "taking over". I wonder what I'll tell my kids, when I get around to having them?

TheHalcyonYear
2010-Mar-15, 03:10 AM
The problem exists. Call it stupidity, bad use of technology. Still, it exists.
No people and their weaknesses exist. When the human race first used fire, individuals who had never before experienced burns were getting severely burned. When the printing press was first developed, some people began to detach from society and lose themselves in books. When radio was discovered, some people felt "inundated" with information and couldn't cope.

When the ice cream Sunday first came out, there those who felt that it would turn the masses away from religion. (There are some who think that history proves this one correct :) )

With each development lives are changed; opportunities for one are the downfall of others. There is nothing new here.

TheHalcyonYear
2010-Mar-15, 03:15 AM
I it' s a fully legitimate subject to discuss, given the extraordinary impact of the Internet [and virtual interactions and relationships] on our lives. But please dont discuss me. Discuss the subject in the OP. Or dont.
I believe some of us have. The op is no different than the one that was banged out on the drums after fire was tamed. The op is no different than some of the first pamphlets that came off the printing press when some peasant was caught reading a romance rather than harvesting against the coming winter.

TheHalcyonYear
2010-Mar-15, 03:21 AM
I never said it was cool. It is a social disease. Diseases suck [especially when we identify ourselves with the sickness].
So is alcoholism, but society has been able to function for thousands of years in spite of the fact that some cannot handle the consumption of alcohol. So are car accidents, but society functions in spite of them. You have pointed to an anecdote that is both stupid and tragic, but you fail to point to anything that makes this "social disease" worse than alcohol, or any other "social diseases".

There are many "social diseases" in this world and I don't think there are advocates for any of them. However, life goes on.

TheHalcyonYear
2010-Mar-15, 03:25 AM
My grandmother used to tell me that her grandparents used to tell her that the invention of the radio was corrupting the nation's youth. My own father told me of his parents telling him that television was having a terrible effect on kids. My own father told me that computers and the internet are "taking over". I wonder what I'll tell my kids, when I get around to having them?
exactly!! And when fire was first harnessed, the drums were alive with the warnings that the next generation would be burned alive before it had a chance to chase the water buffalo.



How about self control and personal responsibility.

novaderrik
2010-Mar-15, 03:32 AM
actually, Scott Adams (the Dilbert guy) wrote in his book "The Dilbert Future" that the holodeck as seen on Star Trek:TNG would be the last thing invented by humans.
that book came out in 1997.

TheHalcyonYear
2010-Mar-15, 03:38 AM
actually, Scott Adams (the Dilbert guy) wrote in his book "The Dilbert Future" that the holodeck as seen on Star Trek:TNG would be the last thing invented by humans.
that book came out in 1997.
So, basically we have a couple of hundred years left. Good to know.

Ilya
2010-Mar-15, 12:22 PM
My grandmother used to tell me that her grandparents used to tell her that the invention of the radio was corrupting the nation's youth. My own father told me of his parents telling him that television was having a terrible effect on kids. My own father told me that computers and the internet are "taking over". I wonder what I'll tell my kids, when I get around to having them?
And Plato warned that widespread literacy would lead to decline of memory. And when novels were invented, many people warned they would "rot the brains" of younger generation. Examples are endless.

BTW, Plato was right. Literacy DID make memory skills common in pre-literate societies obsolete.

closetgeek
2010-Mar-15, 12:47 PM
Whoa, you make it look like Ive made the story. Its just a heads up, meant to a light discussion. Im not proposing anything, except that Ive witnessed this phenomenon.

Im not to blame.

(*) Social networks can be virtual too.

Most of the virtual worlds do have a strong social aspect and when I was in marriage counseling, the therapist did say that it was an increasing problem. She claimed that at least once a week a couple would come in and either one spends too much time playing or one met someone else on the game and wants to start a new life. Do I think it's an arising new problem? No, it's just a new distraction from life. Someone who is addicted to social networking/virtual gaming/any type of internet socialization is not suffering from a new disorder and if that escape wasn't available, they would find another source of gratification or stimulation; what ever the attraction might be.
I really think it's the smug "look at how horrible you are" tone in the article that is setting people off, not necessarily the idea that it's an interesting topic. I find it interesting but that's because of personal experience. I know what it's like to live with someone who snapped at me and treated me like I was inconveniencing him because I had the nerve to call him, crying that my father just died, while he was in the middle of a raid.

Ilya
2010-Mar-15, 06:57 PM
I know what it's like to live with someone who snapped at me and treated me like I was inconveniencing him because I had the nerve to call him, crying that my father just died, while he was in the middle of a raid.
Holy crap (and I mean it most sincerely).

If someone called me with such news when I was in the middle of the raid, I'd just unplug my computer. "<character name> had lost connection" -- no need to tell the rest of the party what happened.

closetgeek
2010-Mar-16, 12:48 PM
Holy crap (and I mean it most sincerely).

If someone called me with such news when I was in the middle of the raid, I'd just unplug my computer. "<character name> had lost connection" -- no need to tell the rest of the party what happened.

You would think but gaming addiction is real. It's effects are similar to chemical addiction but of course, it's stimuli induced rather than substance induced. He justified it as, there were 9 other people in the group, counting on him to lead the raid, similar to the way an alcoholic would justify their drinks as "I just need to take the edge off." Addicts need their fix and when you get in the way of it, you are the problem, not the addiction.

I suspect that the author of that article identified with the story in some way or another. Perhaps he felt saw himself in that article or felt resentful because he saw someone else, I am only speculating. He doesn't sound much different than a recovering addict. He seems to be going from one extreme to the other. People can get hooked on FB, an MMO, or some type of cyber reality but the majority, at least I think, can look around and say, "Wow, this is out of hand, I can't believe I just blew off laundry to play Mafia Wars." We've all felt conflict between what we want to be doing vs what we should be doing. With addicts, want usually wins, but still, those are extreme cases. Everyone who drinks is not an alcoholic and everyone who plays on their computer is not an addict.

Ilya
2010-Mar-16, 07:16 PM
Very true. And there is no greater temperance zealot than a reformed drunk.