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orreman7
2010-Mar-17, 07:13 AM
One of mankinds greatest mysteries, the Nazca Lines in Peru, may have been solved. To date no plausable answers have provided the who, how and why of Nazca until now. The answer to this centuries old mystery was found in an accidental UFO photo taken by an amatuer photographer/researcher in San Diego. The now famous "Inaja UFO Photo", which is currently featured at the "Science of Aliens" exhibit at the San Diego Air & Space Museum, has been authenticated by experts around the world and resulted in numerous front page features, radio interviews and TV spots. A 2006 CBS UFO Special highlighted the discovery with evidence the Los Angeles Times labeled "UNSETTLING". I invite all members of this esteemed forum to visit my non-profit research website and take the entire 30+ tour and decide for yourself if the who, how and why of Nazca have been solved. Along the way you will see how a famous pyramid in Mexico may be a purposefully designed GIANT humanhead. Google "Inaja UFO Photo" or go to


http://www.orreman7.com/BestUFOphotoever.html

I look forward to your comments orreman7

captain swoop
2010-Mar-17, 09:29 AM
Orreman7 Welcome to BAUT. Please take some time to read the rules for posting the the board.
I moved your post to the Conspiracy Forum as iti is more suited to UFO claims.

While I am sure your website is fascinating, if you want to present claims on BAUT you need to make and support them here. Linking to a website is allowed but only as support for posting here.
Also it is upon you to provide support for the claims and answer questions asked by other posters

Tedward
2010-Mar-17, 10:04 AM
which is currently featured at the "Science of Aliens" exhibit at the San Diego Air & Space Museum, has been authenticated by experts around the world

Scuse the snip. What experts and what did they say?

Also, how is this featured in the exhibit. I don't mean "how" as an incredulous how, more "how" as in what part of the exhibit is it playing.

slang
2010-Mar-17, 10:38 AM
The now famous "Inaja UFO Photo", which is currently featured at the "Science of Aliens" exhibit at the San Diego Air & Space Museum, [...]

Famous? A google search for "Inaja UFO Photo" gives only about 400 hits, one of them this very thread, few seem relevant. Which photo are you talking about?


[...]evidence the Los Angeles Times labeled "UNSETTLING".

Oh wow! Some newspaper calls something "UNSETTLING".. Shocking. I'm not impressed.

eburacum45
2010-Mar-17, 11:37 AM
I've had a look at the 'famous Inaja UFO photo'; it shows nothing more than a landscape in California with some dots in the sky.
http://picasaweb.google.com/dhodrien/InajaUFOPhotographJuly1995?authkey=Gv1sRgCO2u35_k-PLjVQ#5374780819510559570
Can you see 'em? No?
extreme enlargement
http://picasaweb.google.com/dhodrien/InajaUFOPhotographJuly1995?authkey=Gv1sRgCO2u35_k-PLjVQ#5374780825600225106
Probably birds. This photo seems to have nothing to do with the Nasca Lines, which are in Peru not California, and nothing to do with aliens at all, unless birds are actually extraterrestrial and we are not aware of that fact.

pvicente
2010-Mar-17, 12:29 PM
One of mankinds greatest mysteries, the Nazca Lines in Peru, may have been solved. To date no plausable answers have provided the who, how and why of Nazca until now. The answer to this centuries old mystery was found in an accidental UFO photo taken by an amatuer photographer/researcher in San Diego. The now famous "Inaja UFO Photo", which is currently featured at the "Science of Aliens" exhibit at the San Diego Air & Space Museum, has been authenticated by experts around the world and resulted in numerous front page features, radio interviews and TV spots. A 2006 CBS UFO Special highlighted the discovery with evidence the Los Angeles Times labeled "UNSETTLING". I invite all members of this esteemed forum to visit my non-profit research website and take the entire 30+ tour and decide for yourself if the who, how and why of Nazca have been solved. Along the way you will see how a famous pyramid in Mexico may be a purposefully designed GIANT humanhead. Google "Inaja UFO Photo" or go to

http://www.orreman7.com/BestUFOphotoever.html

I look forward to your comments orreman7

How can a photo prove that aliens made anything unless it is a photo of the ET caught in the act with a spade in his hands?

It would be better if you gave a direct link to the photo and tell us exactly why do you think that it proves something, it would clear things up, save time and you would get better, more relevant, responses.

ineluki
2010-Mar-17, 01:05 PM
One of mankinds greatest mysteries, the Nazca Lines in Peru, may have been solved.

Your definition of "proof" is not shared by the rest of the world...

Fazor
2010-Mar-17, 01:46 PM
I've really taken to the Nazca lines. I think they're neat. It really bothers me that they so often get soiled by the "U" word though.

Anyway, it would take much more than a handful of random specs in a highly blown up portion of a low quality photograph to convince me of alien visitation.

MartianMarvin
2010-Mar-17, 02:55 PM
I've always wondered what makes the Nazca lines special for the ETI crowd. How are the Nazca lines so much different than, say, the medicine wheels or the animal mounds?

gzhpcu
2010-Mar-17, 03:24 PM
The Inaja Ufo photo is described here (http://www.ufocasebook.com/inaja.html) as being "the best UFO picture ever taken"....:sick: Wow, that doesn't say much for ufo pictures does it? Fuzzy dots in a fuzzy photo...

Could the OP please describe what is so convincing here?

Also what is the link between this fuzzy picture and the Nazca lines in Peru? :confused:

Why would an alleged advanced civilization of aliens create primitive lines in Peru for that matter?:confused:

JayUtah
2010-Mar-17, 03:26 PM
Hello and welcome.


...

The answer to this centuries old mystery was found in an accidental UFO photo taken by an amatuer photographer/researcher in San Diego.

I assume you're Michael Orrell. If so I hope you'll stick around and discuss your claims. However this isn't the place to work on your publicity. We ask hard questions here, and you will be required to answer them if you decide to stick around.

The now famous "Inaja UFO Photo" ...has been authenticated by experts around the world

Authenticated as what? What are the names of the experts?

Your little TV blurb claims it was examined by photographers who ruled out dust and mechanical defects. It says the tiny little black dots appear to be flying but they "don't have wings." That's because you've enlarged it right down to the grain, where wings seen edge-on are too thin to appear.

...and resulted in numerous front page features, radio interviews and TV spots.

How about publications in well-recognized scientific or historical journals? Lectures to historians, paleographers, or archaeologists?

BAUT isn't very interested in hype. Give us facts, please.

A 2006 CBS UFO Special...

You mean the local CBS affiliate who did a human-interest feature? I thought it was hilarious when they pointed to the rock and said it was an "alien face." Hogwash like that is why I don't want local television news.

...the Los Angeles Times labeled "UNSETTLING".

I generally don't trust one-word quotations from the media.

...decide for yourself if the who, how and why of Nazca have been solved.

The only claim I can find is that one of the absurdly enlarged blobs bears a superficial resemblance to one of the abstract Nazca figures. That doesn't solve anything. It doesn't even rise to a level of attention greater than coincidence. Solving the question of the Nazca lines means identifying who made them, how, and why. Pictures of distant birds in California isn't even connected to Nazca.

I look forward to your comments orreman7

Not to be overly cynical, but I don't think you will be looking forward to my comments. When your site's banner is a tabloid article about "spreading the UFO gospel," I don't think your research is going to stand up to the kind of scrutiny I employ.

Look, it's not even a good UFO photo. Very distant dots in the sky are birds until you prove they are something else.

Garrison
2010-Mar-17, 03:35 PM
One of mankinds greatest mysteries, the Nazca Lines in Peru, may have been solved. To date no plausable answers have provided the who, how and why of Nazca until now. The answer to this centuries old mystery was found in an accidental UFO photo taken by an amatuer photographer/researcher in San Diego. The now famous "Inaja UFO Photo", which is currently featured at the "Science of Aliens" exhibit at the San Diego Air & Space Museum, has been authenticated by experts around the world and resulted in numerous front page features, radio interviews and TV spots. A 2006 CBS UFO Special highlighted the discovery with evidence the Los Angeles Times labeled "UNSETTLING". I invite all members of this esteemed forum to visit my non-profit research website and take the entire 30+ tour and decide for yourself if the who, how and why of Nazca have been solved. Along the way you will see how a famous pyramid in Mexico may be a purposefully designed GIANT humanhead. Google "Inaja UFO Photo" or go to

http://www.orreman7.com/BestUFOphotoever.html

I look forward to your comments orreman7

Sorry but what do you mean unexplained? I remember watching a documentary a few years ago that explained how they were made and the purpose, ceremonial paths that worshippers were intended to follow.
Were you aware of this explanation? if so why have you rejected it?

billy2
2010-Mar-17, 04:13 PM
I've always imagined the Nazca lines as being simply drawings on parchment, with a grid overlay, that were then transferred to a larger gid on the ground. Each person involved would have a copy of the drawing with his/her designated square to complete. Erase the grid from the ground when the drawings complete, and you're left with evidence of Aliens from Alpha Centauri or wherever. Maybe the Incas were hoaxers.

Tom Servo
2010-Mar-17, 04:34 PM
The answer to this centuries old mystery was found in an accidental UFO photo taken by an amatuer photographer/researcher in San Diego. The now famous "Inaja UFO Photo", which is currently featured at the "Science of Aliens" exhibit at the San Diego Air & Space Museum, has been authenticated by experts around the world and resulted in numerous front page features, radio interviews and TV spots. A 2006 CBS UFO Special highlighted the discovery with evidence the Los Angeles Times labeled "UNSETTLING".http://www.orreman7.com/BestUFOphotoever.html

I look forward to your comments orreman7

Welcome to Baut Orreman7

As many have said before this is very unconvincing "Proof".

I have hundreds of amatuer photos taken by me that if blown up in the same manner will look just as convincing as this one. They are almost all Birds caught in the background. Some are airplanes, and some are just artifacts from the camera. I can also easily just put some fuzzy dots on a fuzy photo with photoshop. Heck I dont even need photoshop to do that.

Any of these are just as much proof of aliens as this article you have presented.

It is not unheard of for black birds to fly together in groups over hills on clear days. Also not unheard of for them to fly in triangular paterns. Actualy I think they prefer to fly that way.

My conclusion. This looks an awful lot like birds in a grainy fuzy photo blown up really large and then claimed to be UFOs. Also the terrible black and white, detail destroying, artifact introducing xerox copy is laughable at best to even be included along side as proof.

Here is another question I ask of you. Why would the alleged advanced aliens waste their recources on creating the Nazca lines? Surely if they wanted to communicate with us they would be inteligent enough to pick a better way. After all they did somehow master space travel. That must have taken a monumental amount of alien time and resources no doubt. Then, only to get to earth, and creat some lines that us humans might look at and say gee thats kinda neat looking. To even entertain the thought that the aliens did this is really very far fetched.

Gillianren
2010-Mar-17, 04:37 PM
There's a very good book called Unsolved Mysteries of History which talks about the Nazca lines and includes very intelligent analysis including all the major candidates for an explanation--and concludes that more than one of them is probably correct. It also points out that the things aren't exactly difficult to make. As pointed out, those mounds up in North America are far more complicated.

novaderrik
2010-Mar-17, 04:52 PM
well, i'm convinced. i welcome our new alien overlords, and look forward to watching them draw naughty pictures in an open field..

Jim
2010-Mar-17, 05:27 PM
One of mankinds greatest mysteries, the Nazca Lines in Peru, may have been solved. To date no plausable answers have provided the who, how and why of Nazca until now. The answer to this centuries old mystery was found in an accidental UFO photo ...

Oops, you had me going for a minute there. I thought you were refering to the National Geographic article which shows how and why the native peoples made those glyphs.

Spirits in the Sand
The ancient Nasca lines of Peru shed their secrets. (http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2010/03/nasca/hall-text)

Wow, do I feel silly.

Tedward
2010-Mar-17, 06:47 PM
For some reason I am reminded of crop circles and Roman road engineers thinking about those lines. I suppose that with three sticks (minimum, two will be a tad errorsome?) you can get a very long straight lines and then with a bit of rope you can get into complex shapes.

Fazor
2010-Mar-17, 07:02 PM
For some reason I am reminded of crop circles and Roman road engineers thinking about those lines. I suppose that with three sticks (minimum, two will be a tad errorsome?) you can get a very long straight lines and then with a bit of rope you can get into complex shapes.

That's what I liked about the awful 'Ancient Aliens' program on History. They made a bigger deal out of the "straight lines that obviously resemble runways" than the actual depictions of animals and people. "How'd they ever make lines soo straight!? They were too primitive!"

Getting a straight line does require some work and forethought. But it's also probably the most basic form of surveying and building. There are many different techniques that can be used on various scale and to various effect. It's really not all that mysterious.

gzhpcu
2010-Mar-17, 07:06 PM
It's really not all that mysterious.
Except for UFO believers apparently...:)

MartianMarvin
2010-Mar-17, 07:21 PM
That's what I liked about the awful 'Ancient Aliens' program on History. They made a bigger deal out of the "straight lines that obviously resemble runways" than the actual depictions of animals and people. "How'd they ever make lines soo straight!? They were too primitive!"

Getting a straight line does require some work and forethought. But it's also probably the most basic form of surveying and building. There are many different techniques that can be used on various scale and to various effect. It's really not all that mysterious.

Yup, farmers operating without GPS tech have made straight lines for years.

Fazor
2010-Mar-17, 07:29 PM
Yup, farmers operating without GPS tech have made straight lines for years.

Combine that with those little baby corn things you find in some salad, and I think we have all the evidence we need to prove that farmers are aliens!

Torsten
2010-Mar-17, 07:51 PM
The centreline for the road in the middle of this Google Maps (http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=53.363358,-124.788723&spn=0.039592,0.08729&t=h&z=14) view (make sure "Satellite" view is on) was located in the mid-1990s, through forest, using nothing more than a Silva Ranger (http://www.thecompassstore.com/ranger1.html) compass and a hip chain (http://www.cspoutdoors.com/hipchains.html). The upper section is just over 3 km long, and the shorter section is about 1.5 km long.

As Tedward noted, making straight lines just requires a few sticks. In open spaces, it is very simple.

kleindoofy
2010-Mar-17, 08:31 PM
... The now famous "Inaja UFO Photo" ... resulted in numerous front page features, radio interviews and TV spots. ...
So have numerous "authentic" pictures and films of Bigfoot, the Loch Ness monster, Yuri Geller, and re-incarnations of Elvis.

So what?

So, I have to go feed my pet unicorn now.

Rue
2010-Mar-17, 08:42 PM
Here is another question I ask of you. Why would the alleged advanced aliens waste their recources on creating the Nazca lines? Surely if they wanted to communicate with us they would be inteligent enough to pick a better way.

IIRC it was von Däniken who came out with the idea that these lines are the remnants of an ancient airport. Some of them resemble airstrips from the air. Of course that would suggest that these wonderful interplanetary craft need to land like todays airplanes.

Also experts have said that if an airplane did land it would obliterate the line.

Fazor
2010-Mar-17, 08:48 PM
IIRC it was von Däniken who came out with the idea that these lines are the remnants of an ancient airport. Some of them resemble airstrips from the air. Of course that would suggest that these wonderful interplanetary craft need to land like todays airplanes.

Also experts have said that if an airplane did land it would obliterate the line.

I usually add the argument that most of our major roadways look like runways if viewed from the sky as well. That doesn't make it so.

And if I were a betting man, I'd agree and say that the chances of alien craft using an airplane-like runway to land and/or take off are slim. Considering they are apparently an inter-galactic tourists, I'd think they'd have a craft that would better handle the varied atmospheric and terrain differences from planet to planet.

Swift
2010-Mar-17, 08:54 PM
IIRC it was von Däniken who came out with the idea that these lines are the remnants of an ancient airport. Some of them resemble airstrips from the air. Of course that would suggest that these wonderful interplanetary craft need to land like todays airplanes.

Also experts have said that if an airplane did land it would obliterate the line.
That is my understanding; certainly von Daniken is where I first read the idea (Chariots of the Gods).

Another argument against that, is that, IIRC, most of the paired lines that von Daniken showed as being runways, are actually only a meter or two apart. So the alien spacecraft must be very tiny. :doh:

ShadowSot
2010-Mar-17, 09:01 PM
So was this a one hit amscray or what?

Swift
2010-Mar-17, 09:04 PM
So was this a one hit amscray or what?
Time will tell. Some posters, for a variety of reasons, can only post infrequently. If orreman7 returns, he has a lot of questions to answer.

And please, no further speculation in thread on the possible "sea gull" nature of orreman7. Leave that to the moderators.

Thanks,

Starfury
2010-Mar-18, 12:02 AM
Sounds to me like the OP has been listening too much to woowoos like Erich von Daniken and Giorgio Tsoukalas, who look at a small artifact that looks roughly like an airplane and proclaim, "This is absolute proof of aliens."

:rolleyes:

Gillianren
2010-Mar-18, 12:06 AM
Also experts have said that if an airplane did land it would obliterate the line.

It doesn't take an expert to say that. Just someone who knows how the lines were made. It's not as though they're somehow embedded into the soil or something. The only reason the lines are still there after all this time is how very, very dry the region is. They're just the soil under the surface layer, not even an inch down.

kleindoofy
2010-Mar-18, 12:22 AM
If they are not disturbed (expect by normal weather), foot beaten paths can show ostensibly visible traces over long periods of time in many places.

The compression of the soil can cause a difference in the vegetation that can grow on them (if any) compared to the soil directly next to them.

Aerial photography with analytic equipment can show those differences over extended time periods, i.e. thousands of years.

Sardonicone
2010-Mar-18, 12:56 AM
I dunno gang, I think it's highly likely that beings capable of interstellar travel would love to come to pre-industrial planets and draw lines in the sand.

I mean, even Vulcans probably like to go camping.

Gobligok
2010-Mar-18, 01:08 AM
One of mankinds greatest mysteries, the Nazca Lines in Peru, may have been solved. To date no plausable answers have provided the who, how and why of Nazca until now. The answer to this centuries old mystery was found in an accidental UFO photo taken by an amatuer photographer/researcher in San Diego. The now famous "Inaja UFO Photo", which is currently featured at the "Science of Aliens" exhibit at the San Diego Air & Space Museum, has been authenticated by experts around the world and resulted in numerous front page features, radio interviews and TV spots. A 2006 CBS UFO Special highlighted the discovery with evidence the Los Angeles Times labeled "UNSETTLING". I invite all members of this esteemed forum to visit my non-profit research website and take the entire 30+ tour and decide for yourself if the who, how and why of Nazca have been solved. Along the way you will see how a famous pyramid in Mexico may be a purposefully designed GIANT humanhead. Google "Inaja UFO Photo" or go to

http://www.orreman7.com/BestUFOphotoever.html

I look forward to your comments orreman7

Orreman7, it appears that you have taken some less than stellar photographs of ...... birds. At least I consider that far more likely than flying so-called aliens.

I'll also raise the same point here than I have in a couple of other CT threads. The term "aliens" has no referent in reality. You might as well say that your photo is proof of blarnosnash, weenohock and joopersnitch.

captain swoop
2010-Mar-18, 07:28 AM
If they are not disturbed (expect by normal weather), foot beaten paths can show ostensibly visible traces over long periods of time in many places.

The compression of the soil can cause a difference in the vegetation that can grow on them (if any) compared to the soil directly next to them.

Aerial photography with analytic equipment can show those differences over extended time periods, i.e. thousands of years.

It's one of the ways to spot ancient sites. 'Crop marks' are important indicators of Bronze age, Iron Age, Saxon etc field lines or settlement sites. Towards the end of summer when things dry out a bit they stand out as lighter or darker lines in a field of wheat or across a meadow.

Tedward
2010-Mar-18, 07:38 AM
Never mind a plane (or ET) damaging the lines if it tried to land, what about the plane surviving? Looks like the gravel traps around a race track.

orreman7
2010-Mar-18, 08:50 AM
Bruce Maccabbe was the first to declare the objects Unidentifaible & Opaque. The triangular formation in the left corner of the photo duplicates numerous videos seen recently of UFOs, furthermore they are stretching to the right as another acorn shaped object on the right moves to the left to join them. Hasn't anyone mythodically examined each page in sequence so we can talk specifics. I am proposing that a pattern has been found on numerous different UFOs. Somebody please check this out.

Tedward
2010-Mar-18, 08:54 AM
I see birds fly in formation. Have they been ruled out and who are the experts and what part of the display in San Diego are these images playing?

orreman7
2010-Mar-18, 08:59 AM
The curator and his staff at the Alien Exhibit were impressed enough to feature a composite of enlargements of my UFO photo at the Air & Space Museum in San Diego. Along with an illustration of three UFOs is my front page Beach & Bay Press article and some verbage on the bottom that goes UFOs??? The large piece is situated at the entance to the exhibit and it represents a major accomplishment to have passed the highest inspection by these aviation professionals who judged it worthy of inclusion.

orreman7
2010-Mar-18, 09:03 AM
Birds also have wings and are photographed with obvious appendages in different positions. these ten objects have no wings and almost the same tight density. I went back 2 weeks later and photographed birds and planes in the same position and after enlarging them in my own Omega C760 Enlarger could easily tell the difference.

Gobligok
2010-Mar-18, 09:29 AM
Bruce Maccabbe was the first to declare the objects Unidentifaible & Opaque. The triangular formation in the left corner of the photo duplicates numerous videos seen recently of UFOs, furthermore they are stretching to the right as another acorn shaped object on the right moves to the left to join them. Hasn't anyone mythodically examined each page in sequence so we can talk specifics. I am proposing that a pattern has been found on numerous different UFOs. Somebody please check this out.

I don't think "go read my website" is how this CT section is supposed to work.

I'm not too interested in your website, though. I'm interested in the title of this thread: "UFO Photo Proves Aliens Created Nazca Lines." I'm even more interested in what your referent in reality is for the term "aliens." Please elucidate. Thank you.

Gobligok
2010-Mar-18, 09:35 AM
hese ten objects have no wings and almost the same tight density.

And exactly how do you know that?



I went back 2 weeks later and photographed birds and planes in the same position and after enlarging them in my own Omega C760 Enlarger could easily tell the difference.

How far away were the objects in the "UFO" photograph? How large were they? Velocity? If you don't know, what do arbitrary photos of readily-identifiable birds and planes in roughly the "same position" demonstrate?

What connection do "UFOs" have with "aliens," and what connection do "aliens" have with what we might ostensibly call objective reality?

HenrikOlsen
2010-Mar-18, 10:38 AM
I've just taken an image that's conclusive proof that Aliens are visiting Denmark.

The enlarged part clearly shows two saucer shaped crafts flying in formation.

Except I took it from my chair and it's spots on the window.

eburacum45
2010-Mar-18, 10:50 AM
I've seen this kind of photo many times before; these featureless spots are almost always birds. (Sometimes they are insects instead). To compare them with other bird photos you have taken you need to get the same species at the same distance under the same lighting conditions.

Incidentally, about the 'triangular formation'; any three dots form a triangle, so triangular formations prove nothing.
.
. .

eburacum45
2010-Mar-18, 11:00 AM
And to state the obvious once again, this photo has absolutely no connection with the Nasca lines.

chrissy
2010-Mar-18, 11:05 AM
I've seen this kind of photo many times before; these featureless spots are almost always birds. (Sometimes they are insects instead). To compare them with other bird photos you have taken you need to get the same species at the same distance under the same lighting conditions.

Incidentally, about the 'triangular formation'; any three dots form a triangle, so triangular formations prove nothing.
.
. .

My bold.
Sorry I was there and there were no birds present when Henrik took that picture on his mobile phone. As for insects, phah! it is still winter.

HenrikOlsen
2010-Mar-18, 11:08 AM
I've seen this kind of photo many times before; these featureless spots are almost always birds. (Sometimes they are insects instead). To compare them with other bird photos you have taken you need to get the same species at the same distance under the same lighting conditions.
And take the photo using the same camera, with the same settings and the same film, later scanned using the same equipment at the same settings.
And precisely repeat all steps of manipulation done to the digital copy.

kleindoofy
2010-Mar-18, 11:30 AM
... The triangular formation in the left corner of the photo duplicates numerous videos seen recently of UFOs ...
So you're saying that a comparison with other pictures confirms your findings? A comparison with other pictures of UFOs?

That's circular logic.

If you want to use those other pictures to substantiate your claim, you first have to prove, beyond any doubt, that those other pictures are *truly* pictures of UFOs. Can you do that?

Sorry, but I doubt that very much.

When you come to BAUT, you're not among people who accept every blob on a picture as proof of aliens. Or any blob for that matter.


... Hasn't anyone mythodically examined each page in sequence ...
Aren't Freudian slips fun?

I'm sure you meant "methodologically," but "myth" is certainly more suitable.


... Somebody please check this out.
I'm afraid many people here have better things to do with their time. Like painting the bottom side of the cellar steps or feeding unicorns in the park.

Time for a reality check.

gzhpcu
2010-Mar-18, 11:59 AM
Bruce Maccabbe was the first to declare the objects Unidentifaible & Opaque. .
Maccabbe declares the objects "unidentifiable and opaque" any you consider this evidence for your case?:confused: :confused:

Strange
2010-Mar-18, 12:43 PM
Bruce Maccabbe was the first to declare the objects Unidentifaible & Opaque.

Unidentifiable, I can agree with. But you are claiming to identify them. That requires some more convincing evidence.


The triangular formation in the left corner of the photo duplicates numerous videos seen recently of UFOs

Three objects can only form a straight line ("wow, look at that alignment, it must mean something") or a triangle ("wow, look a triangle, that is just like all those other trangles I have seen").


acorn shaped object

"Blob" might be a better description. Have you heard of pareidolia? You need something a bit more objective than this.


on the right moves to the left to join them

Sorry, its a photo. How can you tell how things are moving? And what does it prove anyway. I assume you have observed birds in flight; how does this differ from behavior like that?


Hasn't anyone mythodically examined each page in sequence so we can talk specifics.

I did take a look. Ignoring the fact that it has to be a candidate for worst website design ever, all I found was random photos of unrelated things. With some vague descriptions trying to draw some implausible connections between them.

Your "analysis" of the grainy "blob" on page 2 is quite amusing though. By the way, there are well established image processing algorithms for extracting details such as outlines from images. Drawing a shape by hand, surprisingly, is not one of them.


I am proposing that a pattern has been found on numerous different UFOs.

You think you can see some common patterns. This is a long way from demonstrating that (a) these common patterns exist using some objective measure and (b) what they might mean if they do. If all your UFO pictures are birds, for example, we would expect to see some common patterns.

eburacum45
2010-Mar-18, 12:53 PM
My bold.
Sorry I was there and there were no birds present when Henrik took that picture on his mobile phone.

That's County Durham in Denmark, is it?

NEOWatcher
2010-Mar-18, 01:39 PM
The curator and his staff at the Alien Exhibit were impressed enough to feature a composite of enlargements of my UFO photo at the Air & Space Museum in San Diego.
But; what is it's context? According to thier website (http://www.aerospacemuseum.org/upcoming/scienceofaliens.html), it looks like they are taking many concepts (both sightings and SciFi) and comparing it to the real science.
Since I'm a few thousand miles away, I can only guess that they are using these enlargements as an attention getter or introduction to some discussion.

Along with an illustration of three UFOs is my front page Beach & Bay Press article and some verbage on the bottom that goes UFOs??? The large piece is situated at the entance to the exhibit and it represents a major accomplishment to have passed the highest inspection by these aviation professionals who judged it worthy of inclusion.
"some verbage on the bottom"? Your article? Did you write it, or are you saying it's about you?
Without seeing the article I can only guess that you are speaking of a caption for the picture. It's also hard to tell if the "accomplishment" is being attributed to the exhibit or the picture. News reports seem to make things sound ambiguous when taken out of context. They also love to sensationalize things.

Fazor
2010-Mar-18, 02:02 PM
News reports seem to make things sound ambiguous when taken out of context. They also love to sensationalize things.
What?! Never! I'm going to have to see some proof before I believe those wild accusations! Oh. Right. Carry on.

Personally, I believe that there's a species of rare flying cows that's inhabited the earth for centuries, but are very elusive. This photo shows some flying dots and we don't know what those dots are. Finally, I have concrete proof that it's a herd of flying cattle! Game over, mainstream science! Your ballooning bovine conspiracy lays in ruins!

. . . Or, it's just a photo with some dots in it, which doesn't actually tell us anything about what those dots might be. I wonder how a rational person should handle such a thing? (Hint: by looking at the most rational explanations first, before jumping to some wild and unsupported conclusion).

slang
2010-Mar-18, 02:22 PM
That's County Durham in Denmark, is it?

Yep, something like that (http://www.bautforum.com/off-topic-babbling/87184-out-abaut-meeting-up-other-bauters-your-travels-3.html#post1690654).

eburacum45
2010-Mar-18, 02:25 PM
Goodness.

JayUtah
2010-Mar-18, 03:16 PM
...

Bruce Maccabbe was the first to declare the objects Unidentifaible & Opaque.

How does this constitute the "authentication" you claimed? Simply ruling out certain selected common anomalies doesn't provide proof of aliens, as you are claiming in the title of this thread.

The triangular formation in the left corner of the photo duplicates numerous videos seen recently of UFOs

And how many different ways can a triangle appear?

...another acorn shaped object on the right moves to the left to join them.

You didn't see the "craft" until you developed the picture. Assessments of motion are completely speculative at this point.

Hasn't anyone mythodically examined each page in sequence so we can talk specifics.

"Mythodically." How Freudian. I think you mean "methodically."

No, the way it works here is not, "Everyone go please read every single page on my web site." Especially when you're so vigorously trying to promote yourself as an evangelist of the UFO gospel. Present your best case here and now.

BigDon
2010-Mar-18, 03:42 PM
I thought this was laid to rest when it was demonstrated that all these lines mark underground water courses? The waterways marked by name drawn as symbols.

Waterways that are proven to exist, unlike extraterrestrials.

Bobbar
2010-Mar-18, 03:44 PM
The "BEST UFO PHOTO EVER!" consists of 10 indistinguishable blobs on the horizon?

I think the term 'Unidentified Flying Object' gets used too loosely and too often. Just because it's unidentifiable to you doesn't mean it's unidentifiable. Just because it hasn't been identified doesn't mean you can identify it as an alien space craft.

It's a photo of some potentially identifiable and, in all likelihood, totally terrestrial objects.

My guess? Birds. Again.

JayUtah
2010-Mar-18, 03:45 PM
...

...it represents a major accomplishment to have passed the highest inspection by these aviation professionals who judged it worthy of inclusion.

Oh please. They licensed your photo for their exhibit. Don't make such a big deal out of it. Here's the museum's summary:

http://www.aerospacemuseum.org/upcoming/scienceofaliens.html

Note the decidedly sensational "hooks." I noticed they also licensed images from Close Encounters of the Third Kind, and that they talk about the UFO phenomenon, aliens in fiction, and a whole host of marginally scientific topics.

"Highest inspection?" "Aviation professionals?" Good heavens, you make it sound like you won the Nobel prize or something. On what criteria did they "judge" your photo? Are you really implying that it constitutes any kind of scientific verification or endorsement of your claims that those little black specks represent alien spacecraft?

Sorry, but the ability to attract attention doesn't constitute a confirmation of the claim, especially since you seem to seek it so vigorously.

JayUtah
2010-Mar-18, 03:52 PM
...

Birds also have wings and are photographed with obvious appendages in different positions.

Photographed that way always in all cases? Your blobs are right at the grain limit of the film. To pretend you can extract meaningful contours is ridiculous. To pretend that all appendages will be prominent enough to exceed the Nyquist limit is preposterous.

I went back 2 weeks later and photographed birds and planes in the same position...

No. You went back and photographed those known objects in positions that you cannot verify represent the original conditions of your UFO photo. You didn't notice the original objects when you photographed them, only after you developed the film. So you have no way of determining whether the birds you photographed later were the same kind of bird or were far enough away to duplicate the original photographic conditions.

You attempted to falsify the bird hypothesis, but you did so unscientifically.

Gillianren
2010-Mar-18, 04:28 PM
I thought this was laid to rest when it was demonstrated that all these lines mark underground water courses? The waterways marked by name drawn as symbols.

Waterways that are proven to exist, unlike extraterrestrials.

Some of them point to water sources elsewhere, I know, but unless there are underground water courses shaped like monkeys, it's not a universal explanation. It's part of why I doubt a universal explanation. And if you're going to label them by name, there have to be easier ways, given the size of the "labels."

Fazor
2010-Mar-18, 04:51 PM
Some of them point to water sources elsewhere, I know, but unless there are underground water courses shaped like monkeys, it's not a universal explanation. It's part of why I doubt a universal explanation. And if you're going to label them by name, there have to be easier ways, given the size of the "labels."

A theory I heard said they were likely a combination of "labels" -- more like gangs and tagging in cities -- as way to identify a water source as belonging to a particular family/tribe/group; a way to lead the way to or from water sources; and symbols meant to bring the god's favor to provide ample water to the area.

Like most ongoing studies, these were just theories, but based on the very real importance of water for life in that particular environment, and based on how other cultures throughout history did similar things for similarly important resources.

You know, rather than claiming it was highly evolved and technologically advanced yet oddly artistically deficient aliens, which is a theory based on . . . nothing but a desire to believe.

kleindoofy
2010-Mar-18, 08:16 PM
It's one of the ways to spot ancient sites. 'Crop marks' are important indicators of Bronze age, Iron Age, Saxon etc field lines or settlement sites. Towards the end of summer when things dry out a bit they stand out as lighter or darker lines in a field of wheat or across a meadow.
Yes, but those are usually remnants of walls, etc.

I mean normal footpaths. If used regularly (but not necessarily frequently) for an extended period of time, even a footpath can remain visible for a long time after its no longer being used.

From what I've been told by scholars of American Studies, the formations in question were most probably paths outlining images of deities and sacred figures which were trampled down over centuries in rituals which included running (or walking) around the outlines repeatedly.

HenrikOlsen
2010-Mar-18, 08:48 PM
For the foot path and other things, what happens is that the plants have slightly different growing conditions so will have an average height that's slightly different.

The trick is to use aerial photography in the early morning or late evening where the sun is low and those small differences show up clearly as shadows cast by the taller plants on the shorter.

orreman7
2010-Mar-18, 11:06 PM
So let me explain some more on my theory that aliens created the Nazca Lines. I take this accidental photo of what appear to be ten UFOs with a formation of nine on the left and a single craft on the right. After having the objects professionally blown up to grain I can now see that the single object has been captured moving right to left because on its right side are 3 trails of itself and the left side is clearly visable. Even in the grainy enlargement you can see(I can at least) that the contour is acorn shaped. What you can't see so well is an obvious spike like projection 2/3rds up the left side. At the very same time I'm discovering this, an Unsolved Mysteries episode on TV details the acorn shaped craft that crashed in Kecksberg in the 60s. I look at my photo and back at the TV and I'm convinced that I've captured ten Kecksberg UFOs on film. Before long I had collected three other UFO photos that also were acorn shaped and had a distinct spike-like projection 2/3rds up the left side. There are now a total of 5 separate UFOs that have this same anomally and if someone can recall anyone else who has discovered a single pattern between 2 UFOs I'd like to hear about it.

orreman7
2010-Mar-18, 11:25 PM
Now for the sake of those who have no artistic or photographic ability and can't tell the difference between a flock of birds and a formation of UFOs, lets just forget about the Inaja UFO Photo. That still leaves 4 famous documented UFOs that have the same pattern; Astronauts James McDivitt and Charles Conrad, Canadian Dorothy Izatt and Russian Marina Popovich. All 4 photos are available for review on my website. So being the first human in history to stumble upon this lost sacred pattern I started looking at ancient artifacts to confirm my theories as well as metaphysics that; UFOs seeded our planet and were instrumental in every developement of our species. It wasn't long before the evidence flowed in and then I found Marilyn Bridges book "Markings". On pages 27 & 29 were huge markings on the desert floor titled 'The Concorde" and the "Great Triangle" and to my utter amazement that had the same kind of projection on top that 5 different UFOs have. Coincidence? I don't think so.

orreman7
2010-Mar-18, 11:38 PM
For those who think the Nazca Lines have already been solved you are sadly misinformed. No theory has been universally accepted. The lines did on occasion happen to point towards constellations and some of the human made lines may have led to water but no expert has scientifically explained the who ,how and why. It was after I watched Arthur C. Clarke embarrass himself on his "World of Mysterious Powers" program by lining up some native kids at Nazca and using sticks and a rope to map out a wobbly line then declaring thats how all the lines were made, that I decided long before I took my UFO photo that there had to be a more plausible explanation.

JayUtah
2010-Mar-18, 11:57 PM
...

Now for the sake of those who have no artistic or photographic ability...

According to the news accounts I read, you're a drywaller.

I have formal training in photographic analysis and interpretation. My work has been reviewed in Science, the premier scientific journal in the English language. For two years I have owned and operated my own photography studio, part of whose services are photographic analysis and interpretation. I'll keep my own counsel on whether I'm qualified to interpret photographs.

...and can't tell the difference between a flock of birds and a formation of UFOs...

What exactly is a "formation of UFOs" and how did you determine what, if anything, they are?

...lets just forget about the Inaja UFO Photo.

Unless that's concession that you can't prove it depicts anything in particular, let's not forget it. After all, you say it's the "Best UFO Photo Ever," and you can't keep talking about how much attention it's getting. Plus you seem to believe you have proven it can't be birds or airplanes.

So let's stick with the specific questions on the table, which you don't seem to be answering.

First, what did you do to establish that your "control" photos of known birds or airplanes closely enough duplicated the original conditions to serve as a refutation?

Second, since you're at the limit of the film grain, what did you do to ensure that the contours you've pretended to extract from those enlargements actually mean anything and aren't just your subjective interpretation of blobs?

That still leaves 4 famous documented UFOs that have the same pattern...

No, you don't get to say that other photos look like yours until you've answered the questions about yours and how you extracted shapes and patterns from them.

Unfortunately your site is too poorly organized to be useful. If you want us to look at specific photos, please provide specific links.

So being the first human in history to stumble upon this lost sacred pattern...

So no one before you had seen this, yet somehow you -- being the first on the scene, as it were -- know it to be both sacred and lost. How does that work?

I started looking at ancient artifacts to comfirm my theories...

What did you do to attempt to falsify your theory? Did you attempt to prove it wrong?

JayUtah
2010-Mar-19, 12:05 AM
...

...ten UFOs with a formation of nine on the left and a single craft on the right.

You have specks. I see no proof that they are "craft" of any kind. You seem to think you have ruled out birds and dust. What proof do you have that they are vehicles?

...the single object has been captured moving right to left because on its right side are 3 trails of itself

How is this not purely supposition?

Even in the grainy enlargement...

So you admit that grain is a factor. Please then explain how you controlled for that.

...you can see (I can at least)

So you admit that some subjective interpretation is required to "see" your shapes and patterns. How would a scientist have approached this claim differently?

...that the contour is acorn shaped.

And what else would be acorn-shaped if it's made grossly indistinct by inappropriate enlargement and fanciful interpretation?

What you can't see so well is an obvious spike like projection...

Make up your mind: it's either obvious or it's hard to see.

There are now a total of 5 separate UFOs that have this same anomally and if someone can recall anyone else who has discovered a single pattern between 2 UFOs I'd like to hear about it.

Since triangular irises in various kinds of cameras were responsible for a host of UFO photography during the 1990s and 2000s, and all you have are blobby, vague triangular shapes, then I think your "anomaly" is well explained in those cases.

If you want people to believe you've photographed alien spaceships, you have to do a lot more than show how absurdly overblown enlargements produce indistinct simple shapes.

kleindoofy
2010-Mar-19, 12:35 AM
... There are now a total of 5 separate UFOs that have this same anomally ...
Time for another reality check.

Part--and I stress: part--of the problem here is that you seem to assume that it is a generally accepted fact that these other photos show alien spacecraft.

This is *not* a generally accepted fact. Only the alien UFO devote believe this.

I would like to see positive proof of these aliens.

Please convince me.

But, just saying "they're aliens" will not convince me. Prove it. Please.

captain swoop
2010-Mar-19, 01:11 AM
For the foot path and other things, what happens is that the plants have slightly different growing conditions so will have an average height that's slightly different.

The trick is to use aerial photography in the early morning or late evening where the sun is low and those small differences show up clearly as shadows cast by the taller plants on the shorter.

From what I have seen watching many episodes of 'Time Team' the plants usualy either yellow before the ones around them or stay green longer when the weather is hot and dry.

Torsten
2010-Mar-19, 04:22 AM
Before Europeans arrived in this part of the world, the people living here traded extensively with one another and had large trail networks connecting their settlements. Many of these trails have not been regularly used in decades, but centuries of foot traffic have compressed the soils so that the ancient paths appear as a visible depression relative to the surrounding areas, even when completely overgrown with mosses or other vegetation. Generally, but not necessarily, the plant communities that have recolonized these sites are less vigorous than on the adjacent untrodden soils. The texture and coarse fragment content of the soils affect how they respond to the traffic. My guess is that with sufficient freeze/thaw cycles, and churning caused by uprooted trees, the soils under the trail can return to a condition resembling the surrounding areas, but it requires a very long time.[/derail, you may now return to discussing specks on photographs] :)

Spoons
2010-Mar-19, 04:47 AM
For those who think the Nazca Lines have already been solved you are sadly misinformed. No theory has been universally accepted.
Well, there are always misinformed people regarding pretty much every subject - doesn that mean everything we know is wrong? That breaks down everything.

I do not accept your explanations - there, now we can dismiss what you say outright.

Though I think some of the people here will still be inclined to review the details and make their own analysis.

Tom Servo
2010-Mar-19, 07:10 AM
Even in the grainy enlargement you can see(I can at least) that the contour is acorn shaped.

I don't know about acorn shaped they all seem to be blob shaped to me.


Now for the sake of those who have no artistic or photographic ability and can't tell the difference between a flock of birds and a formation of UFOs, lets just forget about the Inaja UFO Photo. That still leaves 4 famous documented UFOs that have the same pattern; Astronauts James McDivitt and Charles Conrad, Canadian Dorothy Izatt and Russian Marina Popovich. All 4 photos are available for review on my website. So being the first human in history to stumble upon this lost sacred pattern I started looking at ancient artifacts to comfirm my theories as well as metaphysics that; UFOs seeded our planet and were instrumental in every developement of our species. It wasn't long before the evidence flowed in and then I found Marilyn Bridges book "Markings". On pages 27 & 29 were huge markings on the desert floor titled 'The Concorde" and the "Great Triangle" and to my utter amazement that had the same kind of projection on top that 5 different UFOs have. Coincidence? I don't think so.

Really. Thats the thing about blobs they tend to be irregularly shaped. If you are suggesting that these aliens ships are acorn shaped than why is just one blob slightly acorn shaped and the others are just blobby. Surely they are all at the same angle.

Maybe their spikes were distorted (or is not showing up clearly) by the distance of the photographer and the blowing up to the grain process. Ohh wait that could also be used to explain why we wouldn't see wings of a bird either.

Spoons
2010-Mar-19, 07:22 AM
I don't know about acorn shaped they all seem to be blob shaped to me.
With either a) a hammer, or b) advanced alien technology you can turn an acorn into all sorts of shapes, even one that resembles a bird from certain angles.

orreman7
2010-Mar-19, 08:19 AM
What makes Nazca special? There are arrow straight lines that run for miles as if sketched by a lazer from above. We cannot duplicate the feat today. The past few crop circle seasons have also produced images so geometrically precise without a single error that no human could possibly recreate them. The real question is why are these images at Nazca and in the crops being created? It was only from the air that the numerous animal figures were discovered. Because almost 3000 years ago whoever made the lines were in the air when they did it. This link shows the obvious signature of the artist who created Nazca. The large projecting triangles with their whips or tails were the pens that drew these magical images on the pampa at Nazca. Those images closely resemble 5 projecting acorn shaped UFOs. 2+2 generally equals 4. http://www.orreman7.com/NazcaRevealed.html

Tedward
2010-Mar-19, 08:26 AM
For those who think the Nazca Lines have already been solved you are sadly misinformed. No theory has been universally accepted. The lines did on occasion happen to point towards constellations and some of the human made lines may have led to water but no expert has scientifically explained the who ,how and why. It was after I watched Arthur C. Clarke embarrass himself on his "World of Mysterious Powers" program by lining up some native kids at Nazca and using sticks and a rope to map out a wobbly line then declaring thats how all the lines were made, that I decided long before I took my UFO photo that there had to be a more plausible explanation.

More sticks. Like I said earlier, three can get me a straight line. As pointed out people can do complex shapes with simple tools. I can draw a perfect circle with one stick and a bit of rope. One more stick and I can dissect the circle, bits of circles can be used in drawings. Back to the three sticks, add another four and I can see a way for some parallel lines.

So, geometry is fun, you can do all sorts with simple tools. To me the human ingenuity is more plausible than ET. There is evidence through history of humans doing some amazing engineering. So why ET and not the engineering?

orreman7
2010-Mar-19, 08:32 AM
Why would aliens create Nazca? My answer will surprise most of you. Since the mid seventies I was aware through metaphysics that a cataclysmic polar shift was overdue and inevitable. A crustal displacement so swift and deadly that 500 MPH winds will scour the earth and destroy everything. Edgar Cayce said it would happen in the blink of an eye, and volcanic core samples confirm that were almost 250,000 years overdue for the next one. Now we see major killer earthquakes across the globe with one of them slighty shifting our magnetic pole. And the hundreds of small earthquakes at Yellowstone are prophecy in the making. Now my theory is that aliens helped create the Giza pyramids, stonehenge and the Tungusta blast all of which have stablized our earths precessional wobble resulting in the shift delay. They want us to live and I'm personally hoping for their return on or before Dec 21 2012. So are the Nazca Lines or Crop Circles sending us a message about impending doom? see for yourself
http://www.orreman7.com/CropCircles2.html

gzhpcu
2010-Mar-19, 08:52 AM
Now for the sake of those who have no artistic or photographic ability and can't tell the difference between a flock of birds and a formation of UFOs, lets just forget about the Inaja UFO Photo.
You must be kidding... What does artistic ability have to do with the question? What you apparently intend to say is "overly vivid imagination". Incredible what you see in some fuzzy points in a fuzzy photo. Sounds like a psychological test to me, or reading tea leaves...


So being the first human in history to stumble upon this lost sacred pattern I started looking at ancient artifacts to comfirm my theories as well as metaphysics that; UFOs seeded our planet and were instrumental in every developement of our species.
"The first human in history...."? Don't be so modest... Ever hear of Erich von Däniken ("Chariots of the Gods, etc. Also wrote that aliens made Nazca lines...)?


It wasn't long before the evidence flowed in and then I found Marilyn Bridges book "Markings". On pages 27 & 29 were huge markings on the desert floor titled 'The Concorde" and the "Great Triangle" and to my utter amazement that had the same kind of projection on top that 5 different UFOs have. Coincidence? I don't think so.
And you see this in a fuzzy dot? :confused:

So actually, "flying saucers" is a misnomer. We should be talking about "flying acorns"?:)

pvicente
2010-Mar-19, 08:54 AM
For those who think the Nazca Lines have already been solved you are sadly misinformed. No theory has been universally accepted. The lines did on occasion happen to point towards constellations and some of the human made lines may have led to water but no expert has scientifically explained the who ,how and why. It was after I watched Arthur C. Clarke embarrass himself on his "World of Mysterious Powers" program by lining up some native kids at Nazca and using sticks and a rope to map out a wobbly line then declaring thats how all the lines were made, that I decided long before I took my UFO photo that there had to be a more plausible explanation.

Do you think that there is something that makes the Nazca lines especially hard to make? Harder than the roads and monuments that people have built trough history?
If so, I'm curious, what makes one of those lines more "special" than a Roman aqueduct for example?

Tedward
2010-Mar-19, 09:02 AM
The Romans built some very straight roads and there were, and some to this day, remain very straight and a lot longer that the straight Nazca lines. UK has a lot of them in various states, criss crossing the country.

Gobligok
2010-Mar-19, 09:03 AM
Now for the sake of those who have no artistic or photographic ability and can't tell the difference between a flock of birds and a formation of UFOs, lets just forget about the Inaja UFO Photo. That still leaves 4 famous documented UFOs that have the same pattern; Astronauts James McDivitt and Charles Conrad, Canadian Dorothy Izatt and Russian Marina Popovich. All 4 photos are available for review on my website. So being the first human in history to stumble upon this lost sacred pattern I started looking at ancient artifacts to comfirm my theories as well as metaphysics that; UFOs seeded our planet and were instrumental in every developement of our species. It wasn't long before the evidence flowed in and then I found Marilyn Bridges book "Markings". On pages 27 & 29 were huge markings on the desert floor titled 'The Concorde" and the "Great Triangle" and to my utter amazement that had the same kind of projection on top that 5 different UFOs have. Coincidence? I don't think so.

Orreman, I previously sought your referent in reality for the term "aliens." Please consult those posts (#34 and #41). I'm curious as to how you distinguish "aliens" from nonsense words like hiwnofarsh. My contention is that the term "aliens" has no apparent ontology and no connection to anything in reality. This calls into question a number of your assertions.

Also, in post #42 I asked how you know that the "objects" have no wings, and I asked a series of questions about measurements.

gzhpcu
2010-Mar-19, 10:05 AM
The Romans built some very straight roads and there were, and some to this day, remain very straight and a lot longer that the straight Nazca lines. UK has a lot of them in various states, criss crossing the country.
Or for that matter, the precision with which they were built. The remarkably fine tolerances, and of a technological standard that had a gradient of only 34 cm per km (3.4:10,000), descending only 17 m vertically in its entire length of 50 km (31 miles)!

eburacum45
2010-Mar-19, 10:26 AM
Concerning the McDivitt photo;
http://ronrecord.com/astronauts/white-mcdivitt.html

McDivitt has publicly denied having seen a aliencraft and states that the released picture was not the object that he saw. The released picture was a light reflection off the copilot's window. McDivitt believes that what he saw was a manmade satellite which was probably not acknowledged for defence security reasons.
So you are basing your theory of 'acorn-resemblance' on an image of light reflecting off a window?

Sardonicone
2010-Mar-19, 02:40 PM
What makes Nazca special? There are arrow straight lines that run for miles as if sketched by a lazer from above.



No, they are not as if sketched by a laser. Not even close. If they had been, there would have been tell-tail signs that would have given away the use of said technology. (Scorch marks, fractured stones, chemical evidence etc.) There is no evidence of this. Claiming that the pathways were made "as if by a laser" is either showing your ignorance at how lasers work, or you are being disingenuous.



We cannot duplicate the feat today. The past few crop circle seasons have also produced images so geometrically precise without a single error that no human could possibly recreate them.

So now crop circles are a seasonal event? Interesting. Also considering there have been many shows that have come out and demonstrated how complex designs are rather easy to emulate, why do you prescribe to them an alien origin? What evidence do you have to prove they are not indeed man-made. It seems here you are trying to set up an argument from incredulity.

"I don't see how man could do this, therefore it must have been created with alien technology".

That doesn't work, you have to first prove it couldn't be done by human ingenuity, and then you have to prove it's origin is indeed extra-terrestrial. You have done neither.


The real question is why are these images at Nazca and in the crops being created? It was only from the air that the numerous animal figures were discovered. Because almost 3000 years ago who whoever made the lines were in the air when they did it.


More assumptions, with no proof to back them up. Why must the lines have been made in the air? Also if this was truly done with "alien technology" why is the end result so decidedly low tech. You mean to tell me aliens traveled light years just to make some lines in the ground, that just HAPPEN to look like regular old worn in pathways? Why not leave, I don't know, something more advanced, like a monolith made from materials not found on our planet? Or some alien technology....a recording of who they were and why they were here...perhaps with instructions to make our own devices and join in the "galactic community"...or better yet, why not just still be here? What they made some lines, then just got bored? You've yet to prove the lines are anything other than human made, and instead are just assuming they are.




This link shows the obvious signature of the artist who created Nazca. The large projecting triangles with their whips or tails were the pens that drew these magical images on the pampa at Nazca. Those images closely resemble 5 projecting acorn shaped UFOs. 2+2 generally equals 4. http://www.orreman7.com/NazcaRevealed.html

I see nothing obvious in that link. I do see that you're obviously trying to make us assume you have proof of something which you do not.

NEOWatcher
2010-Mar-19, 02:45 PM
So let me explain some more on my theory that aliens created the Nazca Lines. ...
That post talked about a photo and nothing about the lines.

How does a (what appears to be) random photo with some unexplained blotch of grains explain the Nazca Lines?


For those who think the Nazca Lines have already been solved you are sadly misinformed. No theory has been universally accepted. The lines did on occasion happen to point towards constellations and some of the human made lines may have led to water but no expert has scientifically explained the who ,how and why.
So; What you are saying is that since scientists can't agree on a single solution, or that each line may be from a different process, we can't accept the explainations so it must be alien?


It was after I watched Arthur C. Clarke embarrass himself on his "World of Mysterious Powers" program by lining up some native kids at Nazca and using sticks and a rope to map out a wobbly line then declaring thats how all the lines were made, that I decided long before I took my UFO photo that there had to be a more plausible explanation.
Because some kids with no experience or previous exposure to the process were inaccurate indicates nobody could do it?

Sardonicone
2010-Mar-19, 02:46 PM
Why would aliens create Nazca? My answer will surprise most of you. Since the mid seventies I was aware through metaphysics that a cataclysmic polar shift was overdue and inevitable. A crustal displacement so swift and deadly that 500 MPH winds will scour the earth and destroy everything. Edgar cayce said it would happen in the blink of an eye, and volcanic core samples confirm that were almost 250,000 years overdue for the next one. Now we see major killer earthquakes across the globe with one of them slighty shifting our magnetic pole. And the hundreds of small earthquakes at Yellowstone are prophecy in the making. Now my theory is that aliens helped create the Giza pyramids, stonehenge and the Tungusta blast all of which have stablized our earths precessional wobble resulting in the shift delay. They want us to live and I'm personally hoping for their return on or before Dec 21 2012. So are the Nazca Lines or Crop Circles sending us a message about impending doom? see for yourself
http://www.orreman7.comCropCircles2.html



Pole shifts occur all the time on Earth, the last one was about 700k years ago. All that happens is the magnetic poles reverse. While it will mess up our compasses if it were to happen, and perhaps if our magnetic field were to "power down" while it happened we'd be exposed to some larger than normal radiation levels, it will hardly be cataclysmic.

As for the Earth's wobble, well we have the Moon to help take care of that.

Did aliens create the moon?

And why are you now posting about 2012? Is this where you erroneously claim the Mayans, who couldn't even predict their own demise, knew something was going to happen then? Their calendar ends, that's it. I have a shuttle calendar I bought some years ago that only went to Dec 31, 2007. Did that mean NASA was predicting the end of the world? Furthermore, if they were, why were they wrong?

Sardonicone
2010-Mar-19, 02:50 PM
It's nice to know that humans are incapable of even making straight lines, yet we've we've managed to split the atom and somehow develop into a space-faring species.

Why can't the CT's ever prescribe more advanced technology to aliens other than pyramids and lines?

Seems to me that ET must be very lucky indeed to ever have gotten off his/her own proverbial rock, as all they're able to do is replicate feats that us lowly humans were able to do thousands of years ago, often times before the advent of the wheel.

NEOWatcher
2010-Mar-19, 02:57 PM
...Why can't the CT's ever prescribe more advanced technology to aliens other than pyramids and lines? ...
Maybe we are just the intergalactic sand box where the aliens send thier kids of to play with thier blocks.

Sardonicone
2010-Mar-19, 03:01 PM
Maybe we are just the intergalactic sand box where the aliens send thier kids of to play with thier blocks.

Wait, so we're the day-care of the universe?

Great. Now we have even more snotty-nosed brats to deal with, only these ones have figured out how to violate the (known) laws of physics.

I'll be darned if I have to change any of their diapers.

JayUtah
2010-Mar-19, 03:21 PM
...

There are arrow straight lines that run for miles as if sketched by a lazer from above.

No.

Lasers used for alignment are laid along the line to be rectified, not applied to it from altitude.

Lasers used for material removal require an external means of rectification, and as has already been said, leave behind evidence of thermal disturbance.

You seem to be confusing two different roles of lasers.

We cannot duplicate the feat today.

Not only can we duplicate it easily today, the Victorian surveyors did similar feats more than a hundred years ago using only their simple tools. Much of this particular brand of pseudoscience seems to rely on wrong assumptions of what was otherwise possible.

The past few crop circle seasons have also produced images so geometrically precise without a single error that no human could possibly recreate them.

"Cereologists" have been claiming this for decades despite the demonstrations of crop-circle makers who consistently defy those unlearned opinions. The original crop circles were thought to be too complicated for humans to make; yet humans have been observed in the process of making them.

If you want to argue that precise crop circles and your UFO photo are somehow connected, you have to argue far more directly. "It can't be this, so it must be that" is not generally a valid argument, especially when "that" is a specific claim regarding aliens.

It was only from the air that the numerous animal figures were discovered.

False. It was only from the air that the general public began to take notice of them, being underneath a scheduled air route. And it is from the air that they are most conveniently seen today. Previously the locals enjoyed them from a nearby hillside. It is a common misconception that the figures can only be seen from the air.

Because almost 3000 years ago who whoever made the lines were in the air when they did it.

No, this is only what "must" be true if you accept the supposition that the figures can be seen only from the air.

This link shows the obvious signature of the artist who created Nazca.

Why do you think that's obvious?

The large projecting triangles with their whips or tails were the pens that drew these magical images on the pampa at Nazca.

There's nothing "magical" about them. They're curious indeed, but simply ordinary constructions that served ceremonial and practical purposes.

The problem is that you've shifted shapes. Nazca shows us, according to you, triangles with projections, but you're all excited about acorns with projections in your UFO photos. Your "triangles" didn't have projections. And neither, as a matter of fact, did your "acorn" -- you had to draw it on there where it clearly has no support from the underlying image.

Those images closely resemble 5 projecting acorn shaped UFOs.

Not at all. Your "acorn-shaped" figures that you claim to be UFOs don't even resemble acorns. They're misshapen blobs reproduced at the limit of the underlying spatial quantization.

2+2 generally equals 4.

But you don't have anything as precise as a 2. You have blobs. And your logical "arithmetic" is simply a series of grand speculative leaps.

You simply guess that crop circles have something to do with your photo, Nazca, and space aliens.

You distinguish triangle from acorn when it suits you, then you assert that triangles and acorns are equivalent when it comes to the little projection.

You assert with no proof whatsoever that some sort of craft with a projection used that projection to somehow create the Nazca lines and figures, then circularly claim the Nazca triangles are the "signature" of their author.

How is all of that supposed to add up? You're just making this stuff up as you go.

Strange
2010-Mar-19, 03:26 PM
The Romans built some very straight roads and there were, and some to this day, remain very straight and a lot longer that the straight Nazca lines. UK has a lot of them in various states, criss crossing the country.

This was also done using very simple surveying equipment: I believe a horizontal wooden cross on top of a pole with four weighted strings hanging from it was about as sophisticated as it got. There is absolutely no reason the Nazca shouldn't have used something similar.

Fazor
2010-Mar-19, 03:31 PM
No, this is only what "must" be true if you accept the supposition that the figures can be seen only from the air.

I'd still argue with that, though in fairness you did put the word 'must' in quotes. If the figures were meant as signals to the gods, they wouldn't necessarily have had to been viewable by any ground-bound person.

The same way an artist can paint a pointillistic painting that can only truly be viewed from a distance without ever taking a step back from the canvas. Or, more relevantly, a cartographer could (fairly) accurately chart a coastline from the lowest point, sea-level.

In short, with a minimal knowledge of perspective and some practice at charting/graphing, it's more than possible to draw a large-scale image that no one can see.

And it's not like these are Rembrandts burnt into the desert sands.

Strange
2010-Mar-19, 03:34 PM
So let me explain some more on my theory that aliens created the Nazca Lines.

Hypothesis, not theory. A theory needs some confirmation. Actually, "guess" would probably be more accurate as a hypothesis needs at least some evidence.


appear to be ten UFOs

"Appear to be UFOs"? That makes no sense. Either they are idenitifed or they are not. They can't "appear" to be unidentified.


and a single craft on the right

Hang on, I thought they were unidientified? So how can you say it is a craft?


After having the objects professionally blown up to grain I can now see ...

Can you not see how ludicrous this statement is? Have you seen Blow Up (1966)? If you blow the image up until it is a blur of grains you can probably see anything you want in it.



that the single object has been captured moving right to left because on its right side are 3 trails of itself and the left side is clearly visable.

You motion analysis seems to be based on the conventions used in animated cartoons.


Even in the grainy enlargement you can see(I can at least)

So you admit it is purely subjective.

JayUtah
2010-Mar-19, 03:41 PM
...

Since the mid seventies I was aware through metaphysics...

I assume by "metaphysics" you mean the popular hogwash that gets written up in the form of pseudoscience and pseudohistory, such as von Danikan and Edgar Cayce. No one here considers those kinds of authors reliable sources.


...that a cataclysmic polar shift was overdue and inevitable.

I hate to break it to you but people have been predicting the end of the world (or rather, failing to) thousands of years before the 1970s.

volcanic core samples confirm that were almost 250,000 years overdue for the next one.

That's priceless. Volcano areas are the newest depositions of crustal material. You often can't tell from them what happened last year, much less 250,000 years ago.

Now we see major killer earthquakes across the globe with one of them slighty shifting our magnetic pole.

That too is priceless. The recent Chile earthquake altered Earth's rotational behavior by a negligible amount, but not its magnetic behavior. What makes this priceless is that the 2012 gang can't make up their minds whether magnetic pole-shifting is causing the earthquakes or whether earthquakes are causing the magnetic poles to shift. That's because there's no connection between them.

Geologists all over have been telling people that the recent earthquakes are not an acceleration of the rate at which they occur. There is no anomaly that geology recognizes in this timing.

And the hundreds of small earthquakes at Yellowstone are prophecy in the making.

Yellowstone National Park sits on top of a caldera that occupies the better part of three western states. It's enormous on the same scale the asteroids and moons are enormous. Why is it such a shocker that such an area would be prone to earthquakes?

Now my theory...

No, that's not a theory. Theories are scientifically testable and have predictive properties. Yours is more like wild, handwaving speculation.

...is that aliens helped create the Giza pyramids, stonehenge and the Tungusta blast all of which have stablized our earths precessional wobble resulting in the shift delay.

Of course. Your story has to involve all the global curiosities in order to widen its appeal and get you more museum gigs and radio appearances.

How, in physical science terms, do the Giza pyramids stabilize the Earth?

How, in physical terms, does Stonehenge help stabilize the Earth?

How did the Tunguska event stabilize the Earth? On this last one, we know the approximate strength of the explosion, so you should be able to work out how much of an effect it would have on the Earth.

Besides, I would really like to know how you propose to reconcile the difference between magnetic and rotational pole-shifting. When the magnetic pole shifts, it is simply a change in Earth's magnetic field. The Earth itself doesn't move. So even with an enormously powerful blast, why would applying that physical force to the Earth have any effect on its internally-generated magnetic field?

Nazca Lines or Crop Circles sending us a message about impending doom? see for yourself

Okay, you really need to stop your sales pitch and start answering questions. This is not a forum where you can just spew your wild hypotheses with no accountability. If you want to keep participating here, you'll have to start actually discussing things.

Torsten
2010-Mar-19, 05:35 PM
What makes Nazca special? There are arrow straight lines that run for miles as if sketched by a lazer from above. We cannot duplicate the feat today.

Why do you make this ignorant assertion when several posts in this thread have described the basics of how it is done? You may not be able to do it, but that doesn't alter the fact that I have, in far more difficult conditions than a desert plain.

I have established the route for hundreds, and perhaps more than a thousand, kilometres of roads through forests. The basic tool for establishing the initial direction is a compass. However, to achieve a long, straight alignment the "trick" is to hang intervisible lengths of surveyors tape on limbs, stems and brush in a straight line, akin to lining up wooden sticks. I have often discovered highly localized magnetic deviations that are different from the general magnetic declination of the area. These are probably caused by ore bodies. The only way to ensure that the line remains straight while traversing such areas is to ignore the compass and line up survey ribbons as I've just described.

Strange
2010-Mar-19, 05:48 PM
I was aware through metaphysics

What about science?


Edgar cayce said it would happen in the blink of an eye

Is he a well known geologist?


Now we see major killer earthquakes across the globe

Situation normal, then. No different from any other time.


Now my theory is that aliens helped create the Giza pyramids

Why don't you think the Egyptians built them? Do you have any evidence of alien assistance? Or you just making this up?


They want us to live and I'm personally hoping for their return on or before Dec 21 2012.

Why that date? So will you take down you web site and stop this nonsense in January 2013?


So are the Nazca Lines or Crop Circles sending us a message about impending doom?

No. (And how "impending" is it if these lines were made so long ago?)

Making crop circles is a very popular hobby round here - something to do with the scrumpy, I think.

Are you going to answer any of the questions you have been asked here?

BigDon
2010-Mar-19, 07:49 PM
Hey Torsten, so how much easier would a flat plain AND a forty foot tall pole to observe from be?

They found the sockets and stones the poles used to sit in. The observer would then climb the pole and sit on a platform, encreasing his horizon up to about ten miles. Part of the local oral history as well.

BigDon
2010-Mar-19, 08:01 PM
Ever see that Easter Island film Thor Heyerdahl made?

Ooooohhhh Easter Island heads, huge and mysterious, until ol' Thor paid the local chief twenty dollars American to make another one. Which he filmed the whole process. This was about 1955. Water, logs and rocks, plus human intelligence are all it takes to make a giant monolithic statue.

That's why the OP is offensive and he doesn't even realize it.

"Why, there's just no way those poor benighted wogs could have done that!"

C'mon Orreman! These people built stone cities in earthquake country! You don't think they had surveying?

Luckmeister
2010-Mar-19, 08:22 PM
orreman7

After four pages of responses to your OP, and unanswered questions regarding your methodology and lack of scientific objectivity, it is obvious that your main purpose here is to advertise your website in order to recruit new "believers."

I think this will backfire. After reading through this thread, few if any BAUT members will be swayed by your assertions and assumptions, but many others who Google pseudoscience keywords will discover this discussion and quickly see the folly of your unwarranted guesswork.

So thanks for helping BAUT spread our own "gospel" for critical thinking and the scientific method.

Torsten
2010-Mar-19, 08:48 PM
Hey Torsten, so how much easier would a flat plain AND a forty foot tall pole to observe from be?

I think you'd be limited by your eyesight and ability to convey signals over those distances. In other words, not much of a limitation, and the accuracy of the overall alignment would be better. You'd still need people placing sticks, or other temporary marks at intervals between the major control points so that those responsible for actually inscribing the line (which is nothing more than removing the reddish surface material to expose lighter materials) had something close at hand as a reference. Local variations in terrain and manpower would determine how these details were resolved.

Sometimes I've had to locate a straight line across a broad open area, with only saplings and brush growing on it. In these cases, there is almost always a distant feature visible, such as a tree on a ridge, and another tree in the middle ground. The two objects can be used as reference points that define the extension of the line I'm locating. It is incredibly easy and efficient to lay out a straight line in these cases.

As I understand it, there are hills around the Nazca lines that would have provided exactly such distant reference points, making it even easier to use tall poles as intermediate markers (and that's without considering the possibility that someone could observe from atop the pole).

BigDon
2010-Mar-19, 09:06 PM
Hey, you're right, the poles themselves would make good markers.

HenrikOlsen
2010-Mar-19, 09:13 PM
From what I have seen watching many episodes of 'Time Team' the plants usualy either yellow before the ones around them or stay green longer when the weather is hot and dry.
Those are the obvious ones, Time Team likes to bet on winners:)

The method I mentioned is more sensitive and will reveal deeper discontinuities.

HenrikOlsen
2010-Mar-19, 09:16 PM
Why would aliens create Nazca? My answer will surprise most of you. Since the mid seventies I was aware through metaphysics that a cataclysmic polar shift was overdue and inevitable. A crustal displacement so swift and deadly that 500 MPH winds will scour the earth and destroy everything.
Magnetic pole reversal, not crustal movement.

Someone's been feeding you postdigested bovine fodder.

Abaddon
2010-Mar-19, 09:51 PM
Ever see that Easter Island film Thor Heyerdahl made?

Ooooohhhh Easter Island heads, huge and mysterious, until ol' Thor paid the local chief twenty dollars American to make another one. Which he filmed the whole process. This was about 1955. Water, logs and rocks, plus human intelligence are all it takes to make a giant monolithic statue.

That's why the OP is offensive and he doesn't even realize it.

"Why, there's just no way those poor benighted wogs could have done that!"

C'mon Orreman! These people built stone cities in earthquake country! You don't think they had surveying?

Hey bigdon, its not a particular interest of mine usually, but thats downright interesting.

Got some links by any chance? That would be a good read.

captain swoop
2010-Mar-19, 10:01 PM
I drove along two Roman Roads this week as I made my way around the country from job to job. They are still used as major highways in England. We have hundreds of miles of dead straight railway tracks cutting through hills and mountains, crossing valleys on vidaucts and embankments. All laid out by Victorian Engineers without a Laser to be seen.

Jim
2010-Mar-19, 10:03 PM
Okay, you really need to stop your sales pitch and start answering questions. This is not a forum where you can just spew your wild hypotheses with no accountability. If you want to keep participating here, you'll have to start actually discussing things.



Are you going to answer any of the questions you have been asked here?


After four pages of responses to your OP, and unanswered questions regarding your methodology and lack of scientific objectivity, it is obvious that your main purpose here is to advertise your website in order to recruit new "believers."

orreman7, the Rules for Posting (http://www.bautforum.com/forum-rules-faqs-information/32864-rules-posting-board.html) - specifically #13 - and the Advice for Conspiracy Theory Supporters (http://www.bautforum.com/conspiracy-theories/86593-advice-conspiracy-theory-supporters.html) require you to answer any and all pertinent questions. So far, you have failed to do so.

Consider this a formal warning. Begin answering direct questions. You can start - let's make this easy - with Jay's post #68 (http://www.bautforum.com/conspiracy-theories/102014-ufo-photo-proves-aliens-created-nazca-lines-3.html#post1701977). (Anyone with a question before that post can repost it or link to it in a new message.)

BigDon
2010-Mar-19, 10:17 PM
Orreman, "I don't know" is allowed as an acceptable answer, as is "I need more time" within reason.

Sometimes that's not made clear.

kleindoofy
2010-Mar-20, 01:10 AM
Wow, the OP is going for three credit points in Woo-ology 101:

Nazca Lines? Check!
UFO photos? Check!
(Giza) pyramids? Check!
Triangular formations? Check!
Grainy enlargements? Check!
Ancient artifacts? Check!
UFOs seeded the planet? Check!
Crop circles? Check!
Alien lasers? Check!
Cataclysmic polar shift? Check!
Tungusta? Check!
Dec. 21, 2012? Check!
Impending doom? Check!

No, wait!

Area 51? No, not yet!
Abductions by aliens? No, not yet!
Black helicopters? No, not yet!
LCH/CERN black hole? No, not yet!
Planet X? No, not yet!
Terrafoming Mars? No, not yet!

Sorry, no credit points before all the bases are hit.

Swift
2010-Mar-20, 02:31 AM
Hey bigdon, its not a particular interest of mine usually, but thats downright interesting.

Got some links by any chance? That would be a good read.
I recall seeing the same movie and a PBS program from many years ago that covered similar material. The PBS program didn't go as far as making a finished head, but they videoed the locals carving out the stone block, moving it, and placing it upright in a hole. All that was left to do was the finished carving.

So, no link, but my memory matches BD's. And my feelings agree with his - so many of these "humans couldn't have done that - must be aliens" theories are insulting to the humans who in fact did them.

Fazor
2010-Mar-20, 02:50 AM
I recall seeing the same movie and a PBS program from many years ago that covered similar material. The PBS program didn't go as far as making a finished head, but they videoed the locals carving out the stone block, moving it, and placing it upright in a hole. All that was left to do was the finished carving.
Yeah. Nova I think. Maybe not. But I've seen it too. It talked about why they were made too, or the best they've been able to piece together.

Van Rijn
2010-Mar-20, 03:00 AM
Yeah. Nova I think. Maybe not. But I've seen it too. It talked about why they were made too, or the best they've been able to piece together.

It was "Easter Island." Here's a page with some of what they learned:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/easter/dispatches/index.html

Here's the main page:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/lostempires/easter/

Looks like you can still get it on DVD in the "Secrets of Lost Empires II" set.

Van Rijn
2010-Mar-20, 03:09 AM
"Why, there's just no way those poor benighted wogs could have done that!"

C'mon Orreman! These people built stone cities in earthquake country! You don't think they had surveying?

If I understand the claim, he also doesn't seem to think people today can make good crop circles. :doh:

Hungry4info
2010-Mar-20, 03:37 AM
I think anyone here aware of Occam's razor is shaking their head right now.

ravens_cry
2010-Mar-20, 04:32 AM
I think anyone here aware of Occam's razor is shaking their head right now.
As is anyone familiar with the definition of the word 'proves'.:doh:

Sardonicone
2010-Mar-20, 04:37 AM
If I understand the claim, he also doesn't seem to think people today can make good crop circles. :doh:

I am rather curious about this claim. How is it we can accurately launch a probe so that it will meet up with an object billions of miles away, yet our civilization is unable to make simple crop circles?

It's akin to a world class athlete being able to run a marathon in record time, yet unable to do a decent 40 yard shuttle.

Sardonicone
2010-Mar-20, 04:39 AM
As is anyone familiar with the definition of the word 'proves'.:doh:


I've spent the last several hours imbibing in my choice of alcoholic beverages and watching basketball (NCAA tournament), and I still can't stop shaking my head.

Geo Kaplan
2010-Mar-20, 07:03 AM
That is my understanding; certainly von Daniken is where I first read the idea (Chariots of the Gods).

Another argument against that, is that, IIRC, most of the paired lines that von Daniken showed as being runways, are actually only a meter or two apart. So the alien spacecraft must be very tiny. :doh:

Aha! I'd overlooked that support for the nanognome TOE (they're cousins of van rijn's elf).

orreman7
2010-Mar-20, 08:34 AM
Jay, my interpretation of a formation of UFOs would include any airborne group that is not identifiable. I have photographed countless birds and planes and they are easily identifiable. When I went back to the same spot 2 weeks later to photograph birds and planes I set the camera on the same rock wall and I waited for my subjects to pass in front of my camera. On the day I took the UFO photo however my zoom lens was fully extended and I could not duplicate it with birds in the same airspace that the objects were back in 1990. I was satisfied with the results however which compelled me to pay to have the objects blown up to grain. Those enlargements further supported the UFO theory, oops I mean idea, that the objects were of unknown origin. First it appeared that the objects were reflecting the setting sun as well as the blue haze below them on what had to have been metallic surfaces. This is obvious in the actual enlargements using a magnifing loop to look at the grain. Some of the "blobs" in the formation also appeared to be acorn/triangular in shape with some pointing up and some down. I considered the triangular formation of 3 blobs to be highly suspicious as they pointed to the single object on the other side of the valley. My original opinion of the single blob was disheartening compared to the formation on the left but I was determined to examine it objectively without prejudice. Quite quickly I recognized that the left side of the object only was in focus and it looked like a giant acorn. Then I noticed this spike type projection 2/3rds up the left side and could also distinguish 3 separate images trailing behind it which I surmised meant that the object was in motion going right to left to join the formation which was clearly stretched out towards it. Now, I don't claim to be a professional photographer JayUtah, I barely know how to use my own camera. I just put it on auto and let the camera figure out f-Stops and exposure settings. My job is finding scenic vistas to photograph and sell at the numerous galleries that have sold thousands of dollars of my local landscapes such as these;
http://www.orreman7.com/MichaelsSanDiegoPhotoArt.html

chrlzs
2010-Mar-20, 08:42 AM
I just want to reiterate two things. No wait. Three things.. :lol:

1. orreman7, you said "We cannot duplicate the feat today."
This is patently ridiculous, and does not reflect well on your claims. I can recall reading about the Nazca lines when I was about 13-ish. And it was immediately obvious to me how you would do it. Draw a small scale version, then use VERY simple scaling and sighting techniques to lay out the big version. It's EASY. And if I make a basic ladder, or a pole that can be climbed, it becomes beyond easy.

No GPS, no laser, not even a ruler is required - you can easily improvise measuring devices, and the units are irrelevant.

2. Using the words "best ufo photo ever" is a serious indictment of your evidentiary standards.

3. If this was an attempt to drive traffic to your site, I'm afraid you have simply succeeded (very efficiently) in making sure Google finds this thread first...

orreman7
2010-Mar-20, 09:12 AM
Gobligok, you've asked what my referent in reality is for the term alien. My "concept" of what aliens are was developed in my youth when I was led to metaphysics after my father died when I was 13. Metaphysics is "the branch of philosophy that deals with first principles and seeks to explain the nature of being or reality and of the origin and structure of the world"-New World Dictionary. Now starting at 17 I read most of the works of T.Lobsang Rampa, Carlos Castanada and Jane Roberts. Their writings converged on many issues and convinced me of the existence of a "separate reality" where UFOs, telepathy, OOBEs, reincarnation and everything else that our schools and religions werent teaching us exist. These 3 writers revealed unknown truth which I personally experienced in numerous ways like several accidental telepathic moments. Also "how far were the objects away?" I can only guess but if the entire valley is 18 miles long they (blobs) must have been at least several miles away as the crow flies. Since I did not see them I can't determine their velocity. The connection between UFOs and aliens is measured for me by the countless shapes of their vehicles which indicates various origins of construction, Once again metaphysics confirms that a real galatic federation exists where trade between worlds is big business. For more info on that read "The Hermit" by T.Lobsang Rampa. As far as the size of the craft Gobligok it would probably be the size of a VW sedan as witnesses at the Kecksberg crash site have testified. Here is the example as re-created by Unsolved Mysteries.
http://www.orreman7.com/BestUFOphotoever2.html

pvicente
2010-Mar-20, 01:38 PM
Why would aliens create Nazca? My answer will surprise most of you. Since the mid seventies I was aware through metaphysics that a cataclysmic polar shift was overdue and inevitable. A crustal displacement so swift and deadly that 500 MPH winds will scour the earth and destroy everything. Edgar cayce said it would happen in the blink of an eye, and volcanic core samples confirm that were almost 250,000 years overdue for the next one. Now we see major killer earthquakes across the globe with one of them slighty shifting our magnetic pole. And the hundreds of small earthquakes at Yellowstone are prophecy in the making. Now my theory is that aliens helped create the Giza pyramids, stonehenge and the Tungusta blast all of which have stablized our earths precessional wobble resulting in the shift delay. They want us to live and I'm personally hoping for their return on or before Dec 21 2012. So are the Nazca Lines or Crop Circles sending us a message about impending doom? see for yourself
http://www.orreman7.com/CropCircles2.html

Ok, thanks for the information, now for some questions:

1 -if the Nazca lines are some kind of "planetary stabilizer" and are special or "magical" because they are so straight, then what about all the other straight stuff that people have been building for ages? Roads, walls, tunnels, aqueducts, what kind of "magical" effects they have?

2 - and the same question for the Giza pyramids and Stonehenge, of course. Those are famous examples of pyramids and stone circles but not the only ones of their kind, is every monument with those shapes "magical"? If that's the case for Stonehenge then what are the implications for all the other circular stuff out there like other stone circles, arenas (like Rome's Colosseum for example), domes, plazas, roundabouts, etc?

3 - Are the Nazca lines sending us a message? What? I thought that your idea was that they were made to stabilize the planet?

Swift
2010-Mar-20, 03:06 PM
orreman7,

May I make a very strong suggestion (but it is a suggestion, not a warning). Could you use paragraphs? Your posts of blocks of text are very hard to read. Thanks,

kleindoofy
2010-Mar-20, 03:34 PM
... My original opinion of the single blob was disheartening ... but I was determined to examine it objectively without prejudice. ...
Disheartening?

You may not realize it, but you have just confessed that your reason for seeing so-called aliens in your blobs is not because that's the only thing those blobs could possibly be, but because you *want* them to be so-called aliens.

There are sooooo many other possible and probable explanations for your blobs, but you choose the most fantastic: aliens.


... metaphysics confirms that a real galatic federation exists where trade between worlds is big business.
What? :eek:

Metaphysics is an age-old, highly respected branch of philosophy, not a discipline for confirming one's inner dreams and fantasies.

According to your logic, I could use metaphysics to prove that invisble dwarfs are using my office to breed intergalactic unicorns.

Sorry, that doesn't work.

HenrikOlsen
2010-Mar-20, 04:42 PM
Now starting at 17 I read most of the works of T.Lobsang Rampa, Carlos Castanada and Jane Roberts.
I was a bit younger when I read Castaneda, I thought the first couple of books were an interesting account of a shamanistic tradition but that was about it, at book four I stopped reading because he started getting weird and self contradictory.

And as for Rampa (Cyril Henry Hoskin), I have to admit to having my doubts about the writings of a man who claimed to have been possessed by the spirit of a Tibetan monk after he fell out of a tree and hit his head.

Jane Roberts looks like she was a professional medium.

None of them seems to have any connection with metaphysics as the word is used outside the pseudoscience circles within which it's a referentless buzzword used in order to sound learned.


The connection between UFOs and aliens is measured for me by the countless shapes of their vehicles which indicates various origins of construction, ...
You don't think it could just as well be because they're lots of different mundane objects?

, Once again metaphysics confirms that a real galatic federation exists where trade between worlds is big business.
Metaphysics does no such thing. If it claims to have answers it isn't metaphysics.

I think you're confusing metaphysics and mysticism.

Sardonicone
2010-Mar-20, 04:44 PM
Wait, did I honestly just read that metaphysics confirms a real galactic federation exists?

metaphysics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphysics)?

Really?

Metaphysics is about the study of being and existence, gods, and first principles.

One of those, the law of non-contradiction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_noncontradiction), doesn't help the OP claims at all.

And at any rate, how does a branch of philosophy confirm the existence extraterrestrial life, let alone a whole "galactic federation"?

What you need for that is proof. Something that philosophy is never going to give you.

Gillianren
2010-Mar-20, 06:00 PM
This is obvious in the actual enlargements using a magnifing loop to look at the grain.

Well, that confirms one thing.

You haven't seen Blow-Up. May I suggest you do? It's fiction, but it makes pretty clear why this is a bogus investigatory tool. It's also a pretty interesting film. More interesting, to me, than bizarre speculation about the Nazca Lines which, I have to tell you, still doesn't indicate to me any relation between the picture and the Lines. Or the Lines and Stonehenge. Et cetera.

blueshift
2010-Mar-20, 06:40 PM
To drop a hint, if one wants to show some data that has some validity to it, then the data needs to be revealed in a language that shows and uses the tools of measurement accurately. Such a language would describe the angular size of the object or objects, azimuth and angular elevation off the horizon. Without a sextant or even the ability to make a good estimate then what constellation was in the background at the time? If the size of the object is said to be enormous and over a mile wide and hovering in a location for a given time, then I would expect the temperature on thermometers to drop for a daytime object and I would expect a particular part of a star constellation to be blocked from view during the night. If it was at twilight or nightfall was it twinkling at all? What time did all this occur? If there was displacement, how long did the displacement take from point A to point B? Was a watch used to make the measurement?

I would further cross examine the witness to see how reliable their measurements are. Was a telescope being used? What was its aperture and focal length? What was the focal length of the eyepiece being used? What is the witness' estimate of the angular size of the Moon if it was visible that night? What was its phase? What is the angular size of the Sun? How is it comparable to the angular size of the Moon?

Last October 10th my astronomy club held a public at Afton Woods Forest Preserve in Dakalb, Illinois I had my XT-12 Orion with a 32 mm Q70 eyepiece aimed at the Double Cluster in the northeastern sky. Someone from the public wanted assistance in finding the Double Cluster so I pointed to Casseopia and told him to drop down from one of the legs of the "W" and the cluster will be located approximately two leg lengths down. He did not have a finderscope show I aimed my laser right at the location for him to take aim from behind his Newtonian scope. So I was no longer looking through my scope though someone else was.

An explosion occured right where I aimed with a puff of exhaust following. The whole crowd jumped and then laughed. Was it a metorite that reached terminal velocity with gases trapped in it that were finally unleashed due to the friction with the atmosphere? OR was it an M-80 that some teen threw upward on the other side of the forest preserve and just so happen to explode in our line of sight at that moment? Did we blow up some UFO?

No. Even the data I gave here is unreliable and so is my recollection. It is likely is was a meteorite. Someone did claim to seeing a streak heading there but I was too busy dealing with not blinding all the people with my green laser and aiming it properly to back that up. Further, nobody cared and just went on with observing, giving it only minor attention. No debris could be seen or heard hitting the ground nearby.

Tedward
2010-Mar-20, 07:45 PM
Is there a link to this pesky piccy that is not on that site (or on it if it is just to the image)? An unadulterated copy to peruse? Have I missed it in the advertising?

BigDon
2010-Mar-20, 10:01 PM
According to your logic, I could use metaphysics to prove that invisble dwarfs are using my office to breed intergalactic unicorns.

Eeew! How much do you pay the cleaning staff?

Geo Kaplan
2010-Mar-20, 10:06 PM
Eeew! How much do you pay the cleaning staff?

Lots, I'm sure, but in equally invisible currency.

Torsten
2010-Mar-20, 10:45 PM
At this point I just want one question answered by orreman7:

There are arrow straight lines that run for miles as if sketched by a lazer from above. We cannot duplicate the feat today.

Do you still believe we can't do this?

Sardonicone
2010-Mar-20, 10:51 PM
At this point I just want one question answered by orreman7:


Do you still believe we can't do this?

As much as I want this answered, I've lost track where this particular question is in the que. He has quite a few questions to deal with.

Strange
2010-Mar-20, 10:58 PM
Jay, my interpretation of a formation of UFOs would include any airborne group that is not identifiable.

[my bold]

Therefore, there is no way you can identify them as alien craft.


On the day I took the UFO photo however my zoom lens was fully extended and I could not duplicate it with birds in the same airspace that the objects were in back in 1990.

So this test is meaningless.


I was satisfied with the results however

You have therefore abandoned any pretence of objectivity.


Some of the "blobs" in the formation also appeared to be acorn/triangular in shape with some pointing up and some down.

But there is no way these projections (if they even exist) could be the wings of birds? Really?


I considered the triangular formation of 3 blobs to be highly suspicious as they pointed to the single object on the other side of the valley.

Just generally pointing in that direction? Or more precisely aligned? How precisely? How did you determine this?


My original opinion of the single blob was disheartening compared to the formation on the left

So, not objective after all.



could also distinguish 3 separate images trailing behind it which I surmissed meant that the object was in motion

How do you know that is what these "trailing images" mean? You "surmise" it? So not objective evidence then.


going right to left to join the formation which was clearly stretched out towards it.

Even if we accept your assumptions about the movement, how is this different from the behavior of a flock of birds?

In summary, you have no objective evidence of anything unusual and you have nothing that connects these blobs to Nazca lines, pyramids or anything else.

Gobligok
2010-Mar-21, 01:25 AM
Gobligok, you've asked what my referent in reality is for the term alien. My "concept" of what aliens are was developed in my youth when I was led to metaphysics after my fater died when I was 13. Metaphysics is "the branch of philosophy that deals with first principles and seeks to explain the nature of being or reality and of the origin and structure of the world"-New World Dictionary.

Not sure what metaphysics has to do with so-called aliens, but all right....


Now starting at 17 I read most of the works of T.Lobsang Rampa, Carlos Castanada and Jane Roberts. Their writings converged on many issues and convinced me of the existence of a "separate reality" where UFOs, telepathy, OOBEs, reincarnation and everything else that our schools and religions werent teaching us exist.

Do you have any evidence whatsoever for the existence of these alleged things?


These 3 writers revealed unknown truth which I personally experienced in numerous ways like several accidental telepathic moments.

Do you have any evidence whatsoever that anything "telepathic" exists?

None of this does anything to provide an ontology for "aliens," and you most certainly have not connected the concept to reality. You've explained a floating abstraction by invoking more floating abstractions.


Also "how far were the objects away?" I can only guess but if the entire valley is 18 miles long they (blobs) must have been at least several miles away as the crow flies.

How did you determine this? How does the length of the valley factor into this conclusion (or "guess" as you put it)?


Since I did not see them I can't determine their velocity.

Okay.


The connection between UFOs and aliens is measured for me by the countless shapes of their vehicles which indicates various origins of construction,

How are you determining shapes? Above, you yourself admit that this "greatest UFO photo" of yours is nothing but blobs.

Why do "countless shapes" matter? You're reasoning in circles.


Once again metaphysics confirms that a real galatic federation exists where trade between worlds is big business. For more info on that read "The Hermit" by T.Lobsang Rampa.

Uh, wow. First of all, just making such a claim about metaphysics doesn't make it so. Maybe you'd care to outline your axioms and then explain precisely how they alone reveal the existence of so-called aliens and this....er...."galactic federation" you mentioned.

I think you're simply throwing around the term "metaphysics" without actually understanding what it means or entails. As for everything else, I see nothing in your post to suggest it's all anything but a product of your imagination.


As far as the size of the craft Gobligok it would probably be the size of a VW sedan as witnesses at the Kecksberg crash site have testified. Here is the example as re-created by Unsolved Mysteries.
http://www.orreman7.com/BestUFOphotoever2.html

What makes you think the blobs on your photo have anything to do with alleged objects from somewhere else?

Aside from being poorly presented and hard to read, there's nothing on your webpage but ad hoc assertion and speculation. None of it is clear or even plausible.

orreman7
2010-Mar-21, 06:09 AM
"In the end what you believe is yours to decide" comes from the movie I watched tonight called "The Fourth Kind" very unsettling actual footage based on true abduction accounts from Nome, Alaska. I would ask this panel for comments on this movie. So Gobligok you see nothing on my webpage but ad hoc assertation and speculation none of which is clear or even plausible. I sometimes think that after reading your posts that everyone of you would have discarded the Inaja UFO photo as nothing but birds or a negative glitch and missed the opportunity that this simple Joe lunchbox followed up on. Your idea of reality is limited and does not seem to include the possibility of UFOs.

orreman7
2010-Mar-21, 06:27 AM
My UFOs, as I have pointed out, closely resemble the acorn shaped Kecksberg UFO based on the close-up of the single craft that although fuzzy is still distinguishable even if Kleindoofy can't see it. But no worries your not alone. In one of my early presentations to a group of Mufon investigators, they also failed to draw on paper the same acorn shape that I saw in the enlargement. So was I supposed to assume their opinion outweighed what my own eyes could see? Thats when I decided that professionals, like many on this panel, were capable of costly blunders in interpeting evidence and most often had their own private agendas and were not interested in new or provocative ideas if they didn't fit into their cozy idea of reality.

orreman7
2010-Mar-21, 06:39 AM
Gobligok, yes I do have some limited personal experiences that confirm the existence of these paranormal abilities. Right after my dad died the phone used to ring constantly with no one on the other end. Mom used to blast my Dads police whistle into the phone out of frustration. Years later my apartment doorbell would ring with no one there even as I answered it instantly. After reading that departed spirits can contact loved ones through electromagnetic means the next time the doorbell rang and no one was there I spoke as if my father was standing invisibly right before me and told him that I loved him and appreiated his efforts to contact me. That doorbell never rang again without someone there. Years later Channeler John Edwards confirmed that mysterious phone calls are often departed loved ones.

Tedward
2010-Mar-21, 06:40 AM
"In the end what you believe is yours to decide" comes from the movie I watched tonight called "The Fourth Kind" very unsettling actual footage based on true abduction accounts from Nome, Alaska. I would ask this panel for comments on this movie. So Gobligok you see nothing on my webpage but ad hoc assertation and speculation none of which is clear or even plausible. I sometimes think that after reading your posts that everyone of you would have discarded the Inaja UFO photo as nothing but birds or a negative glitch and missed the opportunity that this simple Joe lunchbox followed up on. Your idea of reality is limited and does not include the possibility of UFOs.

Run that by me again. actual footage based on true abduction accounts? Think there is a typo.

Before this movie is discussed, I am still trying to see some answers here. I can still see a flock of birds, type which populate this planet and do not appear on cue for you to compare.

PetersCreek
2010-Mar-21, 06:59 AM
"In the end what you believe is yours to decide" comes from the movie I watched tonight called "The Fourth Kind" very unsettling actual footage based on true abduction accounts from Nome, Alaska. I would ask this panel for comments on this movie.

It would be inappropriate to change the subject given that you have so many unanswered questions to attend to. Presenting substantive support for your assertions wouldn't be a bad idea, either.

orreman7
2010-Mar-21, 07:00 AM
To answer Torsten's question yes I still believe that there are many ancient accomplishments that were beyond our ancestors capabilities the Nazca Lines being one of them. Are you aware that several mountain tops at Nazca have been completely cut off with no indication of where the rubble went. Then please explain how ancient Peruvians manuvered blocks at Sacsahuaman, some of which weighed a staggering 190 tons that fitted togeather so tightly that no mortar was needed. "It is still an impenetrable mystery how the Incas moved such boulders and how they were able to fit them togeather so precisely.

Torsten
2010-Mar-21, 07:23 AM
orreman7:
I quoted a statement you made and asked a simple question that you have not answered. Now again, you claimed that this feat of making long, arrow-straight lines cannot be duplicated today. After what has been written in this thread, do you still believe we cannot do this today? Quit dodging and then changing the subject and just answer the question. Yes or no?

orreman7
2010-Mar-21, 07:24 AM
PetersCreek, I mentioned "The Fourth Kind" movie only in passing and because the actual footage of Psychologist Dr. Abigail Tyler's hynotic regressions of purported abduction victims represents better evidence for aliens and UFOs in my opinion than anything I have produced. So tell me Tedward what evidence do you have that my UFO formation is a flock of birds? And keep in mind that fleets of UFOs just like mine have been captured on film around the world and match the uniform density of my objects with no visable wings from birds or planes.

LaurelHS
2010-Mar-21, 07:29 AM
Gobligok, yes I do have some limited personal experiences that confirm the existence of these paranormal abilities. Right after my dad died the phone used to ring constantly with no one on the other end.
Isn't it more likely that these were wrong numbers from people who didn't bother to explain themselves, or those annoying silent calls (http://www.ofcom.org.uk/complain/landline/silent/) that sometimes come from telemarketers? It certainly doesn't prove anything about paranormal abilities.

orreman7
2010-Mar-21, 07:36 AM
Torsten, no I don't believe that it is possible to duplicate,at Nazca, the same long arrow straight lines that are present at Nazca. Some extend for dozens of miles.If it were possible I'm sure a simple test would have already been done to prove it. And what device would be imployed that would leave no footprints and uncover just the top layer of rock. Of course its easy enough to make arrow straight lines today but not like that and not out there. This is just my opinion based on unscientific speculations.

orreman7
2010-Mar-21, 07:48 AM
LaurelHS, the numerous occassions that the phone rang in 1971 with no one there were clustered around the time right after my Dad died and I didn't make any connection to a paranormal event. The mysterious phone calls never followed us after we moved. My accidental telepathic event was classic in that my mind was calm and open in one room and in the next was a person in a dire situation. I heard in his own voice, a phrase that I acted upon which he later confirmed. Details upon request.

LaurelHS
2010-Mar-21, 07:56 AM
LaurelHS, the numerous occassions that the phone rang in 1971 with no one there were clustered around the time right after my Dad died and I didn't make any connection to a paranormal event.
This sounds a lot like the post hoc fallacy (http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/post-hoc.html).

orreman7
2010-Mar-21, 08:02 AM
Even before Rampa's classic tale in "The Hermit" where a blind monk was brought on board a space ship and argued on behalf of mankind to a large gathering of assorted off-worlders, the idea of a galatic federation was raised during Betty Hills famous interview after her and Barneys abduction. She claimed the aliens showed her a map where bold lines between planets represented trading routes and broken lines, like the one to our planet, represented expeditionary routes. The numerous UFO shapes cataloged by eyewitnesses add to this theory.

orreman7
2010-Mar-21, 08:18 AM
Post hoc fallacy- "Confusing coincidental relationships with causes". Well I suppose that may apply sometimes but where and when do you separate the omens that accompany true relationships from the false ones. I've been taught that our thoughts create our reality and when a passionate thought is sent out to "coordination points" it comes back as a material manifestation. "Thoughts have substance"-Jane Roberts from the Seth Material. For example was it an accident that I just happened to be at that park shooting a photo at the same time UFOs were passing through?

orreman7
2010-Mar-21, 08:39 AM
Gillianren, the relationship of the photo to the Nazca lines is the projecting triangular shapes at Nazca that match my UFO photo and 4 others. Sardorricone, the branch of philosophy known as metaphysics talks extensively about UFOs and aliens and how they seeded our planet after it cooled and how they are emissaries from God who have to change their "camouflage" when they enter our carbon universe. The existence of a cosmic library known as the "Akashic records" is very well known in paranormal circles and it contains all the past present and probable futures. It is apparantly what Nostradumas and Edgar Cayce tapped into. It also represents, if it exists, the definitive answer to all our questions and one day, hopefully, we will have access to it and really make this forum sing.

Weltraum
2010-Mar-21, 09:03 AM
My UFOs, as I have pointed out, closely resemble the acorn shaped Kecksberg UFO based on the close-up of the single craft that although fuzzy is still distinguishable even if Kleindoofy can't see it. But no worries your not alone. In one of my early presentations to a group of Mufon investigators, they also failed to draw on paper the same acorn shape that I saw in the enlargement. So was I supposed to assume their opinion outweighed what my own eyes could see? Thats when I decided that professionals, like many on this panel, were capable of costly blunders in interpeting evidence and most often had their own private agendas and were not interested in new or provocative ideas if they didn't fit into their cozy idea of reality.
:whistle: Sounds to this Joe Lunchbox as if anyone who disagrees with you is automatically wrong while you are inexorably correct in your beliefs.

http://www.orreman7.com/BestUFOphotoever2.html <- Here, it looks like the proof is in the fuzzy photographs.

I think your rather firm belief in the other dimension you've mentioned comes in part from the trauma of losing your father, and the subsequent, subconscious wish of his being "reincarnated" and alive somewhere becoming manifest.

Try taking an objective look at how you're arguing your case vs how similarly argued cases are handled, such as what the moon landing hoax believers do (try aulis.com for one source). The similarities I see so far are a firm belief serving as a basis for the selection of supporting "evidence," and thus a reliance on falsified or heavily flawed pieces of evidence, such as your fuzzy photographs.

Weltraum
2010-Mar-21, 09:07 AM
Even before Rampa's classic tale in "The Hermit" where a blind monk was brought on board a space ship and argued on behalf of mankind to a large gathering of assorted off-worlders,
This also sounds like Ijon Tichy and the Futurological Congress written about by Stanislaw Lem, at least as I saw it portrayed in a German television production.


the idea of a galatic federation was raised during Betty Hills famous interview after her and Barneys abduction. She claimed the aliens showed her a map where bold lines between planets represented trading routes and broken lines, like the one to our planet, represented expeditionary routes. The numerous UFO shapes cataloged by eyewitnesses add to this theory.
The idea has been raised by science fiction for decades. Just think of Star Trek. So what? Do you believe all fiction stems from some kind of reality in some dimension?

captain swoop
2010-Mar-21, 10:33 AM
Torsten, no I don't believe that it is possible to duplicate,at Nazca, the same long arrow straight lines that are present at Nazca. Some extend for dozens of miles.If it were possible I'm sure a simple test would have already been done to prove it. And what device would be imployed that would leave no footprints and uncover just the top layer of rock. Of course its easy enough to make arrow straight lines today but not like that and not out there. This is just my opinion based on unscientific speculations.

We have given examples of lines that are dozens of miles long and dead straight. Roman Roads, surveyed with little more than sticks and plumb lines and built mt Roman Armies. I drive along the course of several as I move around England, they are still major roads today. Railways laid out in the 19th Century surveyed with little more than sticks and plumb lines and built by armies of Navvies using picks and shovels. Why are the Nazca lines any more remarkable?

RobDog
2010-Mar-21, 11:58 AM
Torsten, no I don't believe that it is possible to duplicate,at Nazca, the same long arrow straight lines that are present at Nazca. Some extend for dozens of miles.If it were possible I'm sure a simple test would have already been done to prove it. And what device would be imployed that would leave no footprints and uncover just the top layer of rock. Of course its easy enough to make arrow straight lines today but not like that and not out there. This is just my opinion based on unscientific speculations.

Dear orreman7,

If I may I'd like to show you another example of how fundamentally easy it is to create the "arrow straight" lines that you "don't believe that it is possible to duplicate". In England there are many Roman roads, as mentioned by captain swoop, that are still followed by their modern counterparts. A prime example is the A15 from Lincoln to the M180 motorway (freeway) which runs in a dead straight line for something approaching 20 miles; check it out on Google Maps:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&q=lincoln%2C%20uk&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl

This (if I remember correctly) follows the route of the Roman Ermine Street. It was built using a simple tool called a groma. You can read about gromas here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A24591099

So, two direct questions;

1) Do you see any reason why the creators of the Nazca lines could not have used a similar technology to create their straight lines "like that" and "out there"?

2) As for leaving no footprints, well is it not possible that the creators of the lines simply walked within the tracks that they had just created?

Garrison
2010-Mar-21, 01:13 PM
:whistle: Sounds to this Joe Lunchbox as if anyone who disagrees with you is automatically wrong while you are inexorably correct in your beliefs.

http://www.orreman7.com/BestUFOphotoever2.html <- Here, it looks like the proof is in the fuzzy photographs.

I think your rather firm belief in the other dimension you've mentioned comes in part from the trauma of losing your father, and the subsequent, subconscious wish of his being "reincarnated" and alive somewhere becoming manifest.

Try taking an objective look at how you're arguing your case vs how similarly argued cases are handled, such as what the moon landing hoax believers do (try aulis.com for one source). The similarities I see so far are a firm belief serving as a basis for the selection of supporting "evidence," and thus a reliance on falsified or heavily flawed pieces of evidence, such as your fuzzy photographs.

I looked at the page, orreman7's taken a blown up section of the photograph and drawn a squiggly line on it that at no point follows the visible contours of the blob in the middle. There is nothing in the image that justifies the shape orreman7 has assigned to it. I can only assume he has seen what he wants to see rather than anything that is actually in the picture.

captain swoop
2010-Mar-21, 02:30 PM
2) As for leaving no footprints, well is it not possible that the creators of the lines simply walked within the tracks that they had just created?

Also, why would he think footprints in the soil or sand would be visible after any length of time?

RobDog
2010-Mar-21, 03:36 PM
...If it were possible I'm sure a simple test would have already been done to prove it...

I'm not aware of any recent tests done to recreate long straight lines, but I am aware of a modern attempt to recreate a large scale figure.

In this case it's a recreation of the Cerne Abbas Giant chalk figure carved into the hillside in Dorset, England. Although the original is not believed to be that ancient (best estimates put it at around 400 years old), it does easily pre-date modern tools such as lasers and GPS. The recreation was created in 2007.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/07/uk_enl_1184598005/html/1.stm

In case anyone's wondering, the modern recreation is on the left :)

Tedward
2010-Mar-21, 03:53 PM
Torsten, no I don't believe that it is possible to duplicate,at Nazca, the same long arrow straight lines that are present at Nazca. Some extend for dozens of miles.If it were possible I'm sure a simple test would have already been done to prove it. And what device would be imployed that would leave no footprints and uncover just the top layer of rock. Of course its easy enough to make arrow straight lines today but not like that and not out there. This is just my opinion based on unscientific speculations.

Just to reiterate what others have said as many a bit of advice on examples of the methodology provided which you ignore, why so?

Footprints. Left in what?

This is my opinion based on simple geometry and evidence. Need a right angle? There are simple ways to get one without buying a set square.

Selenite
2010-Mar-21, 04:23 PM
I've been taught that our thoughts create our reality and when a passionate thought is sent out to "coordination points" it comes back as a material manifestation. "Thoughts have substance"-Jane Roberts from the Seth Material. For example was it an accident that I just happened to be at that park shooting a photo at the same time UFOs were passing through?

So you think passionately a lot about UFOs and they appear. That explains a great deal.

Basically, it comes down to: I WANT to believe. Facts, please don't get in the way.

Torsten
2010-Mar-21, 05:03 PM
(Prepared this last night, but didn't wait for the system backup to complete.)


Torsten, no I don't believe that it is possible to duplicate,at Nazca, the same long arrow straight lines that are present at Nazca. Some extend for dozens of miles.If it were possible I'm sure a simple test would have already been done to prove it. And what device would be imployed that would leave no footprints and uncover just the top layer of rock. Of course its easy enough to make arrow straight lines today but not like that and not out there. This is just my opinion based on unscientific speculations.

Well, then how do you explain the highway that crosses the very plain on which the Nazca Lines are located? It consists of three straight segments, totaling 20.3 km, the longest segment being 8.8 km long. The slight changes in direction were necessitated by control points, places where the road passes through gaps in hills that rise out of the plain. Otherwise it could have been one long straight shot.

The longest segment of a Nazca Line that I can see using Google Earth measures just short of 12 km. The elevation change over the length of that line is about 50 m, on a more-or-less steady grade. In other words, it's just about flat. It is trivially simple to lay out straight lines under those conditions. Your unscientific opinion is worthless in the face of practical experience. That link to a view of a long straight section of a forest road I offered you in post #23 is one that I layed out, using the tools and methods described in my various posts here. The two sections combined required less than 8 hours to complete.

Have you even seen a really close view of the Nazca landscape? Do you know the composition of the material at the site? Where did you get the idea that it is a layer of rock, or that the presence or absence of footprints is an issue? Are you aware that the remains of wooden posts have been found at the ends of some of the lines? What do you think is so special about Nazca that we can "make arrow straight lines today but not like that and not out there"?

And, do you realize that the largest of the figures - the animal shapes - is only ~270 m long? The hummingbird figure, for example, is only 85 m from tip of beak to end of tail, and the wingspan is about 52 m. When my youngest daughter was 8 years old she was drawing chalk figures on our street that were about 30 m from end to end. Given that the Nazca area is an outwash plain, the materials are gravelly (it's described as having pebbles on the surface). Making these figures would be a good team exercise for school children in transferring and scaling up drawings.

Chelonaut
2010-Mar-21, 05:09 PM
Sardorricone, the branch of philosophy known as metaphysics talks extensively about UFOs and aliens and how they seeded our planet after it cooled and how they are emissaries from God who have to change their "camouflage" when they enter our carbon universe.

You are confusing "metaphysics" with "paraphysics". Which isn't a branch of philosphy, rather a grabbag of pseudo-sciences.

Gillianren
2010-Mar-21, 06:01 PM
Gillianren, the relationship of the photo to the Nazca lines is the projecting triangular shapes at Nazca that match my UFO photo and 4 others.

So you saw blurry pictures from Nazca that matched your own blurry photos, and that's a connection?

Okay, direct question time.

Do you understand why looking at a picture blown up to the grain limit with a magnifying glass will not provide any useful information?

Do you dispute the repeated evidence of the Roman roads?

If footprints would be left behind by the creators of the Nazca Lines were those creators human, why isn't the site awash with footprints now?

You mentioned earlier that they were supposedly to help balance the Earth against I don't entirely understand what you're talking about; how would some lines dug in the dirt do that against the phenomenal weight of the Earth? Similarly, how massive would an object have to be in order to balance the Earth if it were tilting in the opposite direction?

Please answer this in as clear writing as you can manage, including separating out each response by paragraph. This is in your own words; if I wanted to know what Cayce thought, I'd go read Cayce. Oh, and cite a specific Nostradamus quatrain that clearly and simply lays out whatever it is you think he's saying.

Oh, and welcome, Chelonaut; read the rules and stay awhile. The turtle moves!

Weltraum
2010-Mar-21, 06:50 PM
So you saw blurry pictures from Nazca that matched your own blurry photos, and that's a connection?

Okay, direct question time.

Do you understand why looking at a picture blown up to the grain limit with a magnifying glass will not provide any useful information?

Do you dispute the repeated evidence of the Roman roads?

If footprints would be left behind by the creators of the Nazca Lines were those creators human, why isn't the site awash with footprints now?

You mentioned earlier that they were supposedly to help balance the Earth against I don't entirely understand what you're talking about; how would some lines dug in the dirt do that against the phenomenal weight of the Earth? Similarly, how massive would an object have to be in order to balance the Earth if it were tilting in the opposite direction?

Please answer this in as clear writing as you can manage, including separating out each response by paragraph. This is in your own words; if I wanted to know what Cayce thought, I'd go read Cayce. Oh, and cite a specific Nostradamus quatrain that clearly and simply lays out whatever it is you think he's saying.

Oh, and welcome, Chelonaut; read the rules and stay awhile. The turtle moves!

That is a very good question! Are the figures posted earlier ( http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/07/uk_enl_1184598005/html/1.stm ) also influencing the Earth's movements?

Sardonicone
2010-Mar-21, 07:26 PM
Gillianren, the relationship of the photo to the Nazca lines is the projecting triangular shapes at Nazca that match my UFO photo and 4 others. Sardorricone, the branch of philosophy known as metaphysics talks extensively about UFOs and aliens and how they seeded our planet after it cooled and how they are emissaries from God who have to change their "camouflage" when they enter our carbon universe. The existence of a cosmic library known as the "Akashic records" is very well known in paranormal circles and it contains all the past present and probable futures. It is apparantly what Nostradumas and Edgar Cayce tapped into. It also represents, if it exists, the definitive answer to all our questions and one day, hopefully, we will have access to it and really make this forum sing.

1. It's Sardonicone, please try and type it correctly, or at the very least, use the quote system, as this will help reduce in any confusion. I honestly missed your reply to me initially because of the lack of you quoting me.

2. I have supplied a link from wikipedia that explains exactly what metaphysics are. Metaphysics is patently NOT about UFOs and aliens, and you claiming as such despite evidence to the contrary doesn't make it so. Just for clarification purposes, I'll supply it again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphysics

I'm not really sure what you're referencing. Could you supply some links, as in peer reviewed scientific journals concerning extraterrestrials?

3. Edgar Cayce (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Cayce)or Nostradameus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nostradamus) are both purported psychics with track records that can only be prescribed as "questionable" at best. I've seen no compelling evidence that either person was gifted in a paranormal way, and indeed, I have no clue why you're bringing them up anyways.

4. You've been given numerous sources, links, and references concerning the ingenuity of humans to replicate the Nazca lines. Have you looked at them yet? Are you willing to concede the point it is within our capability to replicate such feats?

5. You have still not shown how you can come up with anything in your blurry photos, other than the fact there are blurry objects in them. You've proven time and time again your methodology is flawed, and your analysis of your photos are biased. Do you have any way of proving your methodology to be scientifically valid, and furthermore can you actually prove how it's possible to determine what is found in your photos?

6. Furthermore, even if your photos HAD been able to show anything, you've yet to show how they are linked to the Nazca lines anyways.

7. You speak of these "Akashic records" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akashic_records).

The following quote is directly from the Wikipedia page (link provided above)


So far, the only presented evidence of akashic records has been the claims of those who purport to gather information from them. These claims cannot be empirically tested, and thus is not deemed a serious matter of scientific inquiry.[4]

(As previously cited from here: http://www.randi.org/encyclopedia/Akashic%20records.html)

Considering these records are never brought forth so anyone is able to peruse them, why are we to believe they are anything but a work of fiction? We have no evidence they exist, outside of some claims of a few fringe individuals.

It seems to you me you've decided to piecemeal a few common hoax theories and appropriate them as if your own as a means to manufacture credibility for your claims. That won't work here. I, among others, have asked you several direct questions, and as a requirement of your continued participation on these forums, you must answer them. "I don't know", and "I need more time" (within reason) are acceptable answers.

It is also perfectly acceptable to withdraw your claims if you have no way of proving them.

Geo Kaplan
2010-Mar-21, 08:20 PM
{snip} Years later Channeler John Edwards confirmed that mysterious phone calls are often departed loved ones.

I am disturbed by your uncritical acceptance of John Edwards as a channeler with other-worldly talents. Perform a little critical due-diligence on the man. You will discover that everything he does is entirely explicable by the ordinary. The hypothesis that best fits the data is that he is a charlatan.

Your citations of Cayce and Nostradamus are similarly disturbing. If you are sincerely interested in the truth, instead of cherry-picking "data" to confirm a pre-existing bias, you would do well to read "The Mask of Nostradamus" by James Randi.

Swift
2010-Mar-21, 08:35 PM
So tell me Tedward what evidence do you have that my UFO formation is a flock of birds? And keep in mind that fleets of UFOs just like mine have been captured on film around the world and match the uniform density of my objects with no visable wings from birds or planes.
Orreman7,

Just so you are clear as to how it works around here. You are making the extraordinary claims - that this photo shows alien spacecraft and that somehow that proves aliens created the Nazca lines. It is up to you to prove these claims and to answer questions. It is not up to anyone else to prove that such things can be explained by ordinary objects or explanations.

kleindoofy
2010-Mar-21, 08:48 PM
...
Abductions by aliens? No, not yet!
...
Update.

Abductions by aliens? Check!
Ghosts? Check!
Akashic records? Check!
Nostradumas? Check!
"I think, therefore it is"? Check!
Betty & Barney Hill? Check!
Telepathy? Check!
Ancient accomplishments done by aliens? Check!
Sacsahuaman stone walls? Check!
Paranormal abilities? Check!

Why is it that I get the distinct impression that you indiscriminately swallow each and every UFO/alien orientated story hook, line and sinker?

Are there any reports of UFO (= alien spaceship) sightings that you don't believe?

Honestly, I'd really like to know.

Tedward
2010-Mar-21, 08:54 PM
Hmmm. Missed the question to me that Swift has pointed out. But yes, show me it is not birds and it is an alien entity space ship on a mission.

Jim
2010-Mar-21, 09:48 PM
Orreman7, you have questions needing answers in the following posts:

...


...


...


...


...


...


...


...

(Click the link - the little white-on-blue > - to open the post.)

Please address them promptly. I suggest you answer one post at a time and use the Quote function. Please try to answer the questions as directly and concisely as possible, in your own words.

Remember, "I don't know" and "I'll get back to you _____" are acceptable answers, as is retracting the statement that led to the question.

orreman7
2010-Mar-21, 10:47 PM
It was science that proved a purpose for the Nazca Lines to be made. It was the National Geographic Magaziner that first pointed out that 2 large figures at Nazca each had 7 fingers. The magazine claimed it was a mistake. I thought there was purpose for the 7 fingers in the "hand" also known as "duckling" figure and the monkey figure. Science would confirm the importance of the number 7 as this link demonstrates:
http://www.orreman7.com/MoreNazcaRevealed.html

Weltraum
2010-Mar-21, 11:05 PM
It was science that proved a purpose for the Nazca Lines to be made. It was the National Geographic Magaziner that first pointed out that 2 large figures at Nazca each had 7 fingers. The magazine claimed it was a mistake. I thought there was purpose for the 7 fingers in the "hand" also known as "duckling" figure and the monkey figure. Science would confirm the importance of the number 7 as this link demonstrates:
http://www.orreman7.com/MoreNazcaRevealed.html

http://www.orreman7.com/nazcasevencomposite.jpg

Man, are you serious? A solar flare seen from a particular angle and photographed at the right time appears to have the shape of a seven, so it's evidence of the number 7 in the universe? I mean, are you certain it wasn't just a backwards gamma or something? :lol:

Most of your sevens there are entirely pareidolic. Perhaps all of them!

Anyway, you have a long list of questions to get to.

orreman7
2010-Mar-21, 11:08 PM
I never said that the Nazca lines are acting as a planetary stablizer. It was the Giza Pyrimids,Stonehenge, and Tungusta blast that helped stabalize the planet. The Nazca Lines are truly magical because:
1. The #7 has been incorporated in numerous figures at Nazca. Science confirms the importance of the #7. There are 7 interstellar molecules, 7 regions of the visible light spectrum, 7 spectral classes of stars, 7 spinal chakras, 7 planes of consciousness, and on and on. The Bible is a book of 7's.

2. 5 purported UFO photos are shaped the same as numerous markings at Nazca and the giant hummingbird at Nazca is on the shoulder of God L in this Mayan ceramic vase withj a projecting triangular shape on his head suggesting he is the Nazca artist.
http://www.orreman7.com/NazcaResolved.html

That's why I feel the Nazca Lines are magical.

orreman7
2010-Mar-21, 11:19 PM
I personally believe these Lines, which were created thousands of years ago, were meant to be deciphered by future generations. The message is that we are not alone and that God or "all that is" exists. The projecting triangles at Nazca which duplicate numerous UFO's are meant to be evidence of there existence.

Geo Kaplan
2010-Mar-21, 11:20 PM
I never said that the Nazca lines are acting as a planetary stablizer. It was the Giza Pyrimids,Stonehenge, and Tungusta blast that helped stabalize the planet. {snip}

That's why I feel the Nazca Lines are magical.

You still have not answered the many pending questions that others have been waiting for you to address. How do the pyramids stabilize the planet? And against what destabilizing forces are they working? Ditto for Stonehenge and the Tunguska (note the spelling) blast?

Yes, we all know that you feel that certain things are magical, but this is a science-based forum. That means that the threshold for acceptance is quite a bit higher than "this is what I feel" or "I see this number everywhere, so it's gotta mean something important."

As are the others here, I am eagerly awaiting your responses to the many questions that remain unanswered by you.

LotusExcelle
2010-Mar-21, 11:25 PM
I think this is a joke. Really.

Weltraum
2010-Mar-21, 11:25 PM
I never said that the Nazca lines are acting as a planetary stablizer. It was the Giza Pyrimids,Stonehenge, and Tungusta blast that helped stabalize the planet. The Nazca Lines are truly magical because:
1. The #7 has been incorporated in numerous figures at Nazca. Science confirms the importance of the #7. There are 7 interstellar molecules, 7 regions of the visible light spectrum, 7 spectral classes of stars, 7 spinal chakras, 7 planes of consciousness, and on and on. The Bible is a book of 7's.

2. 5 purported UFO photos are shaped the same as numerous markings at Nazca and the giant hummingbird at Nazca is on the shoulder of God L in this Mayan ceramic vase withj a projecting triangular shape on his head suggesting he is the Nazca artist.
http://www.orreman7.com/NazcaResolved.html

That's why I feel the Nazca Lines are magical.

From the linked site:

"Is it a coincidence that the famous "Radiating Points" at Nazca on the left resemble the spliting of the Atom on the right? Of course they knew we eventually would."

No, it doesn't surprise me that radiating lines bear some resemblance to one another.. They should by definition. :doh:

orreman7
2010-Mar-21, 11:26 PM
Creating a Roman road and a line that is miles long and only a foot wide path are two different things! There is a reason that humans are no longer allowed anywhere near the geoglyphs at Nazca. Only from viewing towers are you allowed to view them. The reason for this is clear, move one rock and you have uncovered the yellow soil underneath that has been undisturbed for thousands of years.

Strange
2010-Mar-21, 11:26 PM
You can't tell the difference between fuzzy blobs, birds and aliens.


"In the end what you believe is yours to decide" comes from the movie I watched tonight called "The Fourth Kind" very unsettling actual footage based on true abduction accounts from Nome, Alaska.

You also can't tell the difference between marketing hype and reality.

You do realize that the Hollywood phrase "based on a true story" pretty much means "we made it all up".

orreman7
2010-Mar-21, 11:32 PM
To create the lines as perfect as they are many without flaw and not leave any traces of its making would be impossible considering the fragile nature of the desert floor. The best explanation would be the same for the real crop circle makers. The images were created by something or someone from above. Dozens of geoglyphs at Nazca have a clear entrance line and exit line that is connected to the figures. This may indicate that these geoglyphs were pre-designed and then transferred to the Nazca floor by the "Concorde" and "Great Triangle" figures.

Garrison
2010-Mar-21, 11:38 PM
To create the lines as perfect as they are many without flaw and not leave any traces of its making would be impossible considering the fragile nature of the desert floor. The best explanation would be the same for the real crop circle makers. The images were created by something or someone from above. Dozens of geoglyphs at Nazca have a clear entrance line and exit line that is connected to the figures. This may indicate that these geoglyphs were pre-designed and then transferred to the Nazca floor by the "Concorde" and "Great Triangle" figures.

But its been explained to you how such lines could be made, and that there are potential traces in the form of post holes. The entrance and exit lines, if they are such, could be connected to ritual usage. And the 'real crop circle makers' are bored farmers who admitted to starting the phenomenon and demonstrated their technique. You are simply restating the same beliefs over and over without offering one shred of evidence.

Strange
2010-Mar-21, 11:40 PM
Creating a Roman road and a line that is miles long and only a foot wide path are two different things!

What, exactly, is the difference? Specifically, what differences make ine straightforward for people to do but apprently render the other only possible by "aliens"?

You cannot simply make assertions like this without evidence or any form of logical argument.

assert: stated, declared or alleged, especially with confidence but no proof

Just to be clear: an assertion like this is considered a Bad Thing in science or rational argument. It has no value.

Strange
2010-Mar-21, 11:43 PM
Your idea of reality is limited and does not seem to include the possibility of UFOs.

We all accept the idea of unidentified flying objects. (This is further evidence of your careless use of ideas.)

What we do not accept, without real evidence is the idea that some number of these unidentified objects can indeed be identifed as "aliens".

orreman7
2010-Mar-21, 11:46 PM
Is it a coincidence that the Giza Pyramids are not only aligned with true north but have been built precisely aroung the belly of the world? Is it possible that ancient aliens knew ahead of time that mankind would perish in the periodic reversal of our earth's magnetic poles which JayUtah cannot prove is not linked to a crustal displacement. Stonehenge, according to Coral Lorenzen's book "Shadow of the Unknown" claims that there are strong magnetic fields eminating directly under Stonehenge which in my opinion may have contributed to the stabalization of earth's processional wobble. Unfortunately, this idea and the fact that the Tungusta blast which produced an effect on our magnetic field, are only my ideas and not scientific evidence as to the delay of our earth's shifting poles.

Strange
2010-Mar-21, 11:47 PM
I've been taught that our thoughts create our reality

Then you have been taught wrong. Time to go back to school.


and when a passionate thought is sent out to "coordination points" it comes back as a material manifestation.

I find comments like that in rather poor taste at best. What about all those people who are passionately hoping for a job, or for their loved one not to die?


For example was it an accident that I just happened to be at that park shooting a photo at the same time UFOs were passing through?

Yep.

Strange
2010-Mar-21, 11:50 PM
PetersCreek, I mentioned "The Fourth Kind" movie only in passing and because the actual footage of Psychologist Dr. Abigail Tyler's hynotic regressions of purported abduction victims represents better evidence for aliens and UFOs in my opinion than anything I have produced.

Do you realize just how easy it is to produce false memories in people? I would have zero confidence in information gathered in this way unless it was corroborated by good physical evidence.

orreman7
2010-Mar-21, 11:56 PM
Whatever posts were found still doesn't explain literally thousands of intersecting bullet straight lines that apparently serve no purpose. The animal glyphs which were composed with various geometric shapes are flawless and it's my opinion that it would be too difficlut to do this without mistakes and not leave evidence of that mistake.

orreman7
2010-Mar-22, 12:03 AM
The 2 bored farmers, Doug and Dave died years ago. So how do you explain the intricately designed flawless figures seen in countless crop circles since their demise. This website previews some of the best crop circles ever made:
http://www.temporarytemples.co.uk/

LotusExcelle
2010-Mar-22, 12:08 AM
The 2 bored farmers, Doug and Dave died years ago. So how do you explain the intricately designed flawless figures seen in countless crop circles since their demise. This website previews some of the best crop circles ever made:
http://www.temporarytemples.co.uk/

Other humans can, at times, learn from others and copy or improve their form.

orreman7
2010-Mar-22, 12:09 AM
In numerous court cases around the world photography, some of which has been blown up to grain, have sent people to prison for years. My UFO enlargements have been examined and authenticated as "unidentifiable" by numerous experts, some of which I've named. It was critical that the single craft on the right of the valley was in the sharpest focus which was only visible after it was blown up to grain.

Sardonicone
2010-Mar-22, 12:18 AM
The 2 bored farmers, Doug and Dave died years ago. So how do you explain the intricately designed flawless figures seen in countless crop circles since their demise. This website previews some of the best crop circles ever made:
http://www.temporarytemples.co.uk/

Clearly other people caught on to the idea, and have been doing it alongside and since.

No one is claiming that two people are responsible for all the crop circles in the world. Insinuating as such is being purposefully misleading.

I'll give you a kindly reminder that you have been directed by a Moderator to start quoting those who have asked direct questions of you. As per the rules of this forum, you are the one who has to defend your claims, not try and attack the mainstream explanations for the phenomena/events/structures previously discussed. If you are unable to do so, other than with arguments of incredulity and "I feel" statements, you need to withdraw your claim(s).

This is a scientific community here; ad-hoc speculation and wild conjecture will not fly.

orreman7
2010-Mar-22, 12:18 AM
What I consider metaphysics greatest source is "The Seth Material" :
http://sethcenter.com/pages/JR60.htm. You can call it parapsychics or whatever you want to but "The Seth Material" includes countless references to UFO's their origin and their numerous abilities.

Sardonicone
2010-Mar-22, 12:20 AM
In numerous court cases around the world photography, some of which has been blown up to grain, have sent people to prison for years. My UFO enlargements have been examined and authenticated as "unidentifiable" by numerous experts, some of which I've named. It was critical that the single craft on the right of the valley was in the sharpest focus which was only visible after it was blown up to grain.

If it has been authenticated as "unidentifiable" how can you claim to have identified it?

Do you not see the problem in your statement? Enlarging it isn't going to help in this instance, as the original image(s) are so small and out of focus to being with enlarging it is only going to further blur whatever it is that is there. This has been explained to you several times.

captain swoop
2010-Mar-22, 12:21 AM
So far we have had five pages and all we have from you is your 'opinion' One of the rules for posting in the CT Forum is you must provide some evidence to support your 'opinion'. If you can't do this then let us know otherwise you are inviting action against yourself by the Moderators.
Please take some time to refresh your understanding of the Rules for posting and the advice for CT posters, both are linked at the bottom of this post.

Sardonicone
2010-Mar-22, 12:23 AM
What I consider metaphysics greatest source is "The Seth Material" :
http://sethcenter.com/pages/JR60.htm. You can call it parapsychics or whatever you want to but "The Seth Material" includes countless references to UFO's their origin and their numerous abilities.

I never called it paraphysics. I did however link you to the wikipedia article on "metaphysics". In fact, I have done so on two separate occasions so far.

It doesn't matter what you consider to be metaphysics. I've supplied you with the textbook definition, along with a history of how that branch of philosophy (not science, mind you, philosophy) came about.

You don't get to change definitions as you see fit to help your case. I can't go into a supermarket, pick out a bag of oranges, and insist I want to pay whatever the apple price for the oranges are, because I consider oranges to be apples.

Swift
2010-Mar-22, 12:25 AM
orreman7,

OK orreman7, last shot. First, as several people have asked, if you are answering a specific person's question, would you please go to their post and click the "Quote" button in the lower right corner of their post and give your answer. That will quote the question you are answering. It is otherwise very hard to figure out which question you are dealing with.

Second, I very strongly advice you to focus on your initial topic - the photo of the "UFOs" and how that relates to the Nazca lines. All the rest of this stuff on the pyramids and crop circles and other stuff is just confusing and is generating even more stuff you have to answer.

Third, your next posts better be clear answers to specific questions, or you will be infracted. No more warnings.

Bozola
2010-Mar-22, 12:45 AM
One of mankinds greatest mysteries, the Nazca Lines in Peru, may have been solved.

I don't know why the author is uncertain. I just checked the weather and it's recently rained there.

Geo Kaplan
2010-Mar-22, 02:14 AM
The 2 bored farmers, Doug and Dave died years ago. So how do you explain the intricately designed flawless figures seen in countless crop circles since their demise. This website previews some of the best crop circles ever made:
http://www.temporarytemples.co.uk/

This is beyond sad. You're behaving like an adolescent, sticking his fingers in his ears and yelling "la la la" to avoid hearing what he doesn't like.

Doug and Dave may have died, but it's obvious from the information that they provided that the process of making crop circles is trivially conveyed to others. No special skills, no special tools, no extra-dimensional physics needed. Just time, and a sense of humor.

You have ignored all of the explanations provided. You prefer to insist that these "mysteries" cannot be explained by known processes, despite all of the evidence that falsifies your assertions. But ignoring the evidence doesn't make it go away. Take your fingers out of your ears, stop screaming "la la la" and address the questions. Or withdraw your claim. This isn't a site for collecting declarations of personal beliefs.

Spoons
2010-Mar-22, 03:25 AM
Feel free to ignore the ramblings of this here Joe Keyboard, but here's my thoughts (no net access over the weekend, so this mostly goes back a couple pages)


Years later Channeler John Edwards confirmed that mysterious phone calls are often departed loved ones.
Orreman7 – have you ever had a pizza arrive at your house that you didn’t order, or someone call to enquire as to the condition of your fridge? Your chum John makes his living off other peoples' misfortune, so don't be surprised that he said what he did.


Well I suppose that may apply sometimes but where and when do you separate the omens that accompany true relationships from the false ones.
That’s just it, isn’t it? Coincidences happen in amongst other things that aren’t significant enough to us to grab our attention, that’s kind of part of the definition. You don’t get to separate off the “hits” from the “misses” to improve your success percentage, otherwise my field goal shooting percentage in basketball would be fantastic!


For example was it an accident that I just happened to be at that park shooting a photo at the same time UFOs were passing through?
Well, it’s no accident that you got the photo when you were out taking photos. The UFO bit I think by this stage we can pretty much just ignore, given some of the remarks we’ve heard so far, but even with the birds that you photographed (you can call them UFO’s I guess, they could’ve been model airplanes, and it seems you either didn’t identify them or you misidentified them – MFO’s don’t sound quite so exotic though) it’s no coincidence that you saw them fly past when you were there to see them fly past – doesn’t mean they do it exclusively for your viewing.

And if we're getting into numerology now too: On the weekend I was hungry, so I went to the fridge, hoping to make some hot dogs. Upon opening the fridge I found 5 sausages. Then I went to the pantry - 5 pieces of bread. As you can guess, I was a little stunned by now, and a cold chill ran up my spine. Then I remembered it had been 5 days sisnce I'd bought those items. I ran out of the room in terror and got some takeaway chinese instead!

The point is, numbers are just that, numbers. If you are aware of enough, or if you have an active enough imagination, you can find all sorts of creative ways to apply numbers you find in life. (This goes for other things than just numbers - don't let your imagination get the better of you, or the real world might trip you up while you're staring at the clouds.)


In numerous court cases around the world photography, some of which has been blown up to grain, have sent people to prison for years.
I'm guessing the prosecution had a pinch more than a bad photo and a book by a man who fell out of a tree.

Van Rijn
2010-Mar-22, 03:48 AM
Science confirms the importance of the #7. There are 7 interstellar molecules,


At least 140 have been found so far.

http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/I/ismols.html



7 regions of the visible light spectrum


No such thing. Any divisions would be physically arbitrary.


7 spectral classes of stars


Really? See, among other things,extended spectral types (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellar_classification#Extended_spectral_types). Not to mention subdivisions, or other details. This is a classification system that never was as simple as you seem to think, and has been modified and extended as we've learned more.

I won't get into the other stuff you mentioned in the same post, since it doesn't have anything to do with science.

kleindoofy
2010-Mar-22, 03:52 AM
Gobligok, yes I do have some limited personal experiences that confirm the existence of these paranormal abilities. Right after my dad died the phone used to ring constantly with no one on the other end. ...
I spent today at the office. Sunday. That's part of being self-employed. Oh well. C'est la vie.

So, after seven hours of peace and quiet, i.e. no calls, just working and listening to the WCRB/WGBH classic-stream, a friend called on the phone.

Nothing paranormal there.

BUT.

During that call, somebody else called, battering my ear with the annoying "2nd-call-is-waiting" beep.

Nine hours at the office, only two calls, BUT AT THE SAME TIME! OMG!

A ghost? A lonley spirit? Satan calling to congratulate me on being blasphemous?

No.

The second call left an ID, so I called back. They said they had called by mistake, i.e. wrong number.

Sorry to be so prosaic and anticlimactic, but reality tends to be boring.

Spoons
2010-Mar-22, 04:11 AM
So, after seven hours...
Ah, see? SEE? :D

kleindoofy
2010-Mar-22, 04:16 AM
Let's not forget that the Pleiades consist, at least for the naked eye, of seven predominant stars.

And who would want to doubt the magical majesty of the Pleiades?

Spoons
2010-Mar-22, 04:23 AM
Only a fool would, kleindoofy. Only a fool.

jja
2010-Mar-22, 05:05 AM
...whiich JayUtah cannot prove is not linked to a crustal displacement...

As Bergen Evans observed, "You can't prove it isn't so!" is as good as a Q.E.D. in folk logic. However, this board observes stricter standards. The problem here is that you can't prove that it is so, and therefore it is a very weak point in your argument.

JayUtah is under no obligation to prove it isn't so until you put in the research and effort to make a solid case that it may actually be so. However, you seem to have confused quantity with quality, for you present showers of conceits from across the spectrum of fringe ideas without linking them together in any solid way or showing how they relate more than peripherally to the topic at hand.


Unfortunately, this idea and the fact that the Tungusta blast which produced an effect on our magnetic field, are only my ideas and not scientific evidence as to the delay of our earth's shifting poles

Since you seem to belong to the eschatological school of fringe speculators, it is fortunate for us all that your ideas are only that, and that you lack scientific evidence to support them.

jja
2010-Mar-22, 05:16 AM
In numerous court cases around the world photography, some of which has been blown up to grain, have sent people to prison for years. My UFO enlargements have been examined and authenticated as "unidentifiable" by numerous experts, some of which I've named. It was critical that the single craft on the right of the valley was in the sharpest focus which was only visible after it was blown up to grain.

This comic (http://nedroid.com/2009/12/crime-lab/) may help to show you the flaw in your argument.

In any case, if they have indeed been certified as 'unidentifiable,' then why do you feel justified in identifying them as alien spacecraft?

Weltraum
2010-Mar-22, 05:30 AM
As Bergen Evans observed, "You can't prove it isn't so!" is as good as a Q.E.D. in folk logic. However, this board observes stricter standards. The problem here is that you can't prove that it is so, and therefore it is a very weak point in your argument.

JayUtah is under no obligation to prove it isn't so until you put in the research and effort to make a solid case that it may actually be so. However, you seem to have confused quantity with quality, for you present showers of conceits from across the spectrum of fringe ideas without linking them together in any solid way or showing how they relate more than peripherally to the topic at hand.
I was going to pick on that line if no one else did. The notion that Jay or anybody else here is supposed to disprove something that was never proven to begin with is absurd beyond description.


Since you seem to belong to the eschatological school of fringe speculators, it is fortunate for us all that your ideas are only that, and that you lack scientific evidence to support them.
I wish I knew how an explosion over Tunguska was supposed to have any effect on the movement of the planet or on its magnetic field.

Hey, wait... Our own nuclear weapons have poured radiation into Earth's magnetic field, too! Does that mean mankind has helped avert a pole switch?

Personally, I don't believe in periodic pole shifts, for the record. But that'd be another discussion.


"People do not want immortality... They simply do not want to die... They want to feel the ground beneath their feet, see the clouds overhead, love other people, be with them, and think. Nothing more. Everything that has been said beyond that is a lie." - Ijon TichyI love seeing this :D I still have to get around to reading Ijon Tichy books.

Tedward
2010-Mar-22, 08:28 AM
Creating a Roman road and a line that is miles long and only a foot wide path are two different things! There is a reason that humans are no longer allowed anywhere near the geoglyphs at Nazca. Only from viewing towers are you allowed to view them. The reason for this is clear, move one rock and you have uncovered the yellow soil underneath that has been undisturbed for thousands of years.

Sorry but I have thought of another method using stones instead of sticks. This is not a joke, many years ago I visited the stones at Carnac. Whilst not as true as a Roman road the method will still work.

Now back to the Roman road. Many are more than a few miles long. Look up the Fosse Way. I'll do it for you, Link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fosse_Way). Now they did not have state of the art technology to mark these out, they just did what they had been doing for hundreds of years and using the roads to project power. The quicker you got messages or your army about, the better for Pax Romana.

So this would indicate that it is not beyond the wit of man to mark out stuff. And there is evidence stretching back through time of mans understanding of basic geometry. And in your comment you have shown that all they had to do was move the top soil/rubble or whatever it is composed of. Also sort of disables your comment on laser accuracy.

So, can you prove this is impossible and had to be aliens?

Tedward
2010-Mar-22, 08:36 AM
Whatever posts were found still doesn't explain literally thousands of intersecting bullet straight lines that apparently serve no purpose. The animal glyphs which were composed with various geometric shapes are flawless and it's my opinion that it would be too difficlut to do this without mistakes and not leave evidence of that mistake.

How so? I said earlier I can make a perfect circle with a bit of rope and a stick, give me another stick and I can make more shapes. Shove a stick in the radius of the circle you are making and your circle will change shape. Bit of paper and shape and I can make a right angle. When I make a plan of my kitchen for a new layout I scale it down. Why could they not use methods similar and scale the glyphs up?

I am not looking this up, just thinking out aloud.

Tedward
2010-Mar-22, 08:51 AM
In numerous court cases around the world photography, some of which has been blown up to grain, have sent people to prison for years. My UFO enlargements have been examined and authenticated as "unidentifiable" by numerous experts, some of which I've named. It was critical that the single craft on the right of the valley was in the sharpest focus which was only visible after it was blown up to grain.

Unidentified then. Using your experts, they do not know what it is so you cannot pin ET as a definitive on them. I would have thought.

Strange
2010-Mar-22, 09:31 AM
it's my opinion that it would be too difficlut to do this without mistakes and not leave evidence of that mistake.

And why should we accept your (non expert) opinion in the face of actual evidence that others have done the same thing?

Strange
2010-Mar-22, 09:36 AM
In numerous court cases around the world photography, some of which has been blown up to grain, have sent people to prison for years.

I doubt anyone has been sent to prison on the basis of some unidentifiable blobs. Where there is doubt about the contents of the images, then I would expect someone with experience and expertise in image analysis to give evidence.


My UFO enlargements have been examined and authenticated as "unidentifiable" by numerous experts, some of which I've named.

Hello? "unidentifiable" - what does that mean to you? Experts tell you it is unidentifiable so you assume it is aliens. Sheesh.

I saw someone I didn't recognise at the weekend. Does that mean he must be an alien?

Strange
2010-Mar-22, 09:51 AM
This is all irrelevant to your fuzzy photos of (probably) birds and your even fuzzier idea of the concept of "proof" but...


Is it a coincidence that the Giza Pyramids are not only aligned with true north

If they are aligned with anything, it is almost certainly celestial objects - stars, the sun at certain times of the year, etc - astrology and keeping accurate calendars was very important to the Egytians for very practical reasons.


but have been built precisely aroung the belly of the world

What does that even mean? They are not on the equator are they? And they are not "around" the world (belley or otherwise) they are all in one place.


Is it possible that ancient aliens knew ahead of time that mankind would perish in the periodic reversal of our earth's magnetic poles

How could they know? If they can't even draw long straight lines using primitive surveying equipment...


Stonehenge, according to Coral Lorenzen's book "Shadow of the Unknown" claims that there are strong magnetic fields eminating directly under Stonehenge which in my opinion may have contributed to the stabalization of earth's processional wobble. Unfortunately, this idea and the fact that the Tungusta blast which produced an effect on our magnetic field, are only my ideas and not scientific evidence as to the delay of our earth's shifting poles.


"claims that there are strong magnetic fields eminating directly under Stonehenge" - but is there any evidence for these magnetic fields? No? Oh, what a surprise.

TUNGUSKA - you don't even know what it is you don't know!

only my ideas and not scientific evidence

So, once again: all you have is some ideas with no supporting evidence. Thanks for playing. Next!

RobDog
2010-Mar-22, 10:54 AM
Update.

Abductions by aliens? Check!
Ghosts? Check!
Akashic records? Check!
Nostradumas? Check!
"I think, therefore it is"? Check!
Betty & Barney Hill? Check!
Telepathy? Check!
Ancient accomplishments done by aliens? Check!
Sacsahuaman stone walls? Check!
Paranormal abilities? Check!



...:
1. The #7 has been incorporated in numerous figures at Nazca. Science confirms the importance of the #7. There are 7 interstellar molecules, 7 regions of the visible light spectrum, 7 spectral classes of stars, 7 spinal chakras, 7 planes of consciousness, and on and on. The Bible is a book of 7's...


Numerology? Check!

gzhpcu
2010-Mar-22, 10:57 AM
My UFO enlargements have been examined and authenticated as "unidentifiable" by numerous experts, some of which I've named.
A direct question: please answer this:

By what reasoning do you equate "unidentifiable" with "identifed as alien spaceships"? :confused:

Gobligok
2010-Mar-22, 12:19 PM
Gobligok, yes I do have some limited personal experiences that confirm the existence of these paranormal abilities.

If your "personal experiences" cannot be objectively distinguished from imagination, there is nothing I can derive from them. Science might be empirical, but its veracity is reliant upon reproducibility and falsifiability, not fantastical storytelling.


Right after my dad died the phone used to ring constantly with no one on the other end. Mom used to blast my Dads police whistle into the phone out of frustration. Years later my apartment doorbell would ring with no one there even as I answered it instantly. After reading that departed spirits can contact loved ones through electromagnetic means the next time the doorbell rang and no one was there I spoke as if my father was standing invisibly right before me and told him that I loved him and appreiated his efforts to contact me. That doorbell never rang again without someone there.

Riiiight. Do you have any evidence whatsoever for the existence of these things you call "spirits?" What is a spirit? What are its properties?


Years later Channeler John Edwards confirmed that mysterious phone calls are often departed loved ones.

John Edward is a known cold reader and a fraud (http://www.randi.org/jr/2006-04/042106edward.html). He's never confirmed anything except his own propensity to lie and prey upon human suffering.

It's pretty clear to me at this point that you can't/won't defend your claims and have no interest in rational discourse. Utterly lacking evidence, you have retreated to mysticism.

JayUtah
2010-Mar-22, 02:39 PM
...

Jay, my interpretation of a formation of UFOs would include any airborne group that is not identifiable.

But you have identified them as alien spacecraft. That means they are not unidentifiable according to you. The problem is that you, along with all other UFO evangelists, have arrived at this definition by default and indirection.

I have photographed countless birds and planes and they are easily identifiable.

But that wasn't my question. My question was whether a photograph taken of a bird will always be identifiable as a bird? Is there a region of distance and aspect that lie between identifiability and invisibility?

I was satisfied with the results however...

I am not. You admit you cannot control for the most important variables in the problem, meaning that you can't falsify the hypothesis that what you orginally photographed were ordinary objects simply too far away and too poorly focused to be identifiable solely from the photo.

Those enlargements further supported the UFO theory, oops I mean idea, that the objects were of unknown origin.

No. You are simply unable to identify the objects because the data are too indistinct to rule them definitively in or out.

First it appeared that the objects were reflecting the setting sun as well as the blue haze below them on what had to have been metallic surfaces.

Supposition.

This is obvious in the actual enlargements using a magnifing loop to look at the grain.

So even though you have a photograph enlarged beyond the natural ability of the underlying medium to convey spatial resolution, you are applying more magnification? How is that valid?

Some of the "blobs" in the formation also appeared to be acorn/triangular in shape with some pointing up and some down.

What did you do to assure yourself that this perceived shape could be the actual shape of the object and not a factor of the extreme magnification combined with optical abberation?

I considered the triangular formation of 3 blobs to be highly suspicious as they pointed to the single object on the other side of the valley.

"Pointed to" is an interpretational supposition. You don't know that the two groups of objects are related at all.

I was determined to examine it objectively without prejudice.

You're serious about claiming that your interpretation of these photos is not prejudiced? You have identified them as alien spacecraft and built a little cottage industry out of that interpretation.

Quite quickly I recognized that the left side of the object only was in focus...

Please describe your method for determining whether an image feature enlarged to the film grain is in focus.

Then I noticed this spike type projection 2/3rds up the left side...

That "spike type projection" is absent from the photographic data on which you've interpretively drawn the outline. In other words, your outline bears no resemblance to the underlying photograph. It is not supported, and upon that outline you've based your entire cottage.

...3 separate images trailing behind it which I surmised meant that the object was in motion going right to left to join the formation which was clearly stretched out towards it.

How does that constitute an interpretation without prejudice? That is as prejudiced as an interpretation can get.

Now, I don't claim to be a professional photographer JayUtah, I barely know how to use my own camera.

I can appreciate that. One doesn't have to be a professional photograph to enjoy using a camera and to take wonderful photographs with it. I live in the land of landscape photography. Here is one of my friends. http://www.fatali.com/ Now he clearly knows how to use his camera, but that doesn't stop others from being inspired by his work and doing very good work with their own equipment. And yes, his gallery really is blue.

However, one must know something about the science of photography and of human perception to be a photograph analyst and interpreter, which is what you're doing here. You're making fanciful "spacecraft" out of unrelated blobs of film grain.

I just put it on auto and let the camera figure out f-Stops and exposure settings.

What about focus? For example, in your enlargement did you examine other areas of the photograph to determine the likely focus setting? How do you know the image was well enough focused to determine the outline of objects at film grain? What about lens aberration? How would that affect objects at this magnification?

JayUtah
2010-Mar-22, 02:59 PM
...

My "concept" of what aliens are was developed in my youth when I was led to metaphysics...

So it sounds like you just made up in your mind what aliens ought to look like and don't feel the need to connect it to reality. Metaphysics doesn't provide any sort of falsificatory frame work by definition, so it's not science that helps identify things.

Their writings converged on many issues and convinced me of the existence of a "separate reality" where UFOs, telepathy, OOBEs, reincarnation and everything else that our schools and religions werent teaching us exist.

But we're not talking about a separate reality. We're talking about alleged ordinary reality actually caught on film at a valley near San Diego. Waving your hands about some other framework of understanding and conceptualization doesn't help identify what you photographed. It seems you've turned to a warped version of metaphysics to provide a pseudo intellectual veneer over what you've already decided to believe.

The connection between UFOs and aliens is measured for me by the countless shapes of their vehicles which indicates various origins of construction...

Highly prejudiced and circular.

Further, a good portion of your site is based on comparative morphology. You drawn an outline around your figure and then say that it resembles other shapes from history: the Nazca lines, for example, and sculpture from different cultures. You can't on the one hand say such resemblance is important and then explain away other "spaceships" that don't look like yours by saying that exact shape isn't important when identifying things in photos.

To carry that thought further, you tried to falsify the bird hypothesis by taking pictures of birds to see whether you could recreate your famous photograph using them. You based that exercise on the premise that birds in photographs should always exhibit some telltale property that allows you to make the identification, such that the absence of any of those properties would let you rule out birds. The ability to say, "If it is X then it will look a certain way," is completely undermined by saying, on the other hand, "but Y can look like anything." Basically you have a double standard: you claim alien spacecraft can exhibit a variety of appearances, but birds must always look a certain way.

Once again metaphysics confirms that a real galatic federation exists where trade between worlds is big business.

Whoa! Metaphysics does no such thing! It "confirms" nothing, and it certainly doesn't confirm anything so blatantly specific.

manxman
2010-Mar-22, 05:10 PM
You heard it here first.

This is someone winding-up.
He must be getting even for a previous mauling or similar but its got to be a windup.

JayUtah
2010-Mar-22, 05:31 PM
...

I sometimes think that after reading your posts that everyone of you would have discarded the Inaja UFO photo as nothing but birds...

Your "best UFO photo ever" is simply a bunch of very indistinct dots that you have fancifully interpreted as alien spacecraft, and around which you have built a cottage industry apparently designed to make you famous. You can't stop talking about how much attention this photo has brought you, but it seems to be mostly a matter of you hyping this photo to anyone and everyone.

When you go outside and see dots in the far distance, they are far more likely to be birds than not to be birds. Why? Because the sky is full of birds.

Your idea of reality is limited...

My idea of reality is based in reality, not in fantasy.

...and does not seem to include the possibility of UFOs.

Hogwash.

You are the one trying to positively identify these little specks as alien spacecraft. Your philosophy is the one that won't accept that the data support no clear identification. You are the one steadfastly trying to show they can't be birds, simply upon your assertion that if they were birds they would be identifiable as such in all cases.

Your "reality" doesn't include the notion that ordinary objects may appear in photographs in such a way as to preclude their identification. Kindly don't accuse us of closed-mindedness simply becuase we're questioning your assertive identifications.

JayUtah
2010-Mar-22, 05:42 PM
...

My UFOs, as I have pointed out, closely resemble the acorn shaped Kecksberg UFO

Hogwash. There are no photos of the Kecksburg UFO, so your "resemblance" is simply your broadening of various descriptions and interpretation to include a variety of unrelated sightings and photographs. You're trying to worm your "best UFO photo ever" into the lore that will provide you an audience and market.

...craft that although fuzzy is still distinguishable even if Kleindoofy can't see it.

Nobody can see it, and everyone agrees that your outline is pure fiction. There is nothing in the photograph that supports your drawing. Further, there are analytical tools by which contour can be extracted objectively from photographic data. Please employ those tools and show that they support your claims, or explain why your subjective drawing is a more scientifically defensible analysis of the photo.

In one of my early presentations to a group of Mufon investigators, they also failed to draw on paper the same acorn shape that I saw in the enlargement.

Can you identify any third party who independently agrees with the validity of your drawing?

So was I supposed to assume their opinion outweighed what my own eyes could see?

Yes. That's the point of getting other opinions and submitting one's work to peer review. No person can claim to be strictly unbiased, therefore we rely upon others to help us identify their biases.

Thats when I decided that professionals, like many on this panel, were capable of costly blunders in interpeting evidence and most often had their own private agendas...

So in other words anyone who doesn't agree with your interpretation -- even other UFO fanatics -- are ipso facto prejudiced against you and "must" have some other agenda.

Wow, sounds like you're having a hard time breaking into the UFO market. Tough.

JayUtah
2010-Mar-22, 05:55 PM
...

Torsten, no I don't believe that it is possible to duplicate,at Nazca, the same long arrow straight lines that are present at Nazca.

What you believe is irrelevant, because the belief that something is impossible is limited by one's ability to determine how it may have been done. This is the grand fallacy of UFO fanatics and most pseudohistorians: they simply willfully ignore all competing claims so that they can continue to hold their wacky theories by default.

You have this notion in your head that the only way such well-aligned constructs could be made is by "lazers," but that simply ignores other methods such as were used by surveyors up until the 1930s. Those all relied on simple tools too.

If it were possible I'm sure a simple test would have already been done to prove it.

Examples have been provided of arrow-straight constructs made with simple tools. You simply declare that those examples are irrelevant, but don't say why. At this point it's clear you're just sticking your fingers in your ears so that you don't have to entertain competing theories.

This is just my opinion based on unscientific speculations.

Sorry, you don't get leniency. Not when you're accusing everyone else of being closed-minded and of having other agendas that prevent us from being convinced by your claims. If your claims are "unscientific" then you need to accept the likelihood that there are explanations you're simply not aware of. If this is just your "opinion" then you need to let others form different opinions.

Weltraum
2010-Mar-22, 06:11 PM
I doubt anyone has been sent to prison on the basis of some unidentifiable blobs. Where there is doubt about the contents of the images, then I would expect someone with experience and expertise in image analysis to give evidence.

Hello? "unidentifiable" - what does that mean to you? Experts tell you it is unidentifiable so you assume it is aliens. Sheesh.

I saw someone I didn't recognise at the weekend. Does that mean he must be an alien?

That is our chief problem here. Some people want to assume that if an object cannot be identified, it must be extraterrestrial. That way it supports an existing belief for those people.

Paying attention here, Orreman? Have you stopped to consider what you're doing and how you're thinking, truly?

JayUtah
2010-Mar-22, 06:42 PM
...

Is it a coincidence that the Giza Pyramids are not only aligned with true north but have been built precisely aroung the belly of the world?

Yes, because the latter aspect is simply a circular paraphysical claim, and the former is unremarkable because constructions tend to be so aligned far more often than not. My city happens also to be laid out along the cardinal compass points. The fact that it was laid out like this by a Mormon astronomer (Orson Pratt) does not justify me in claiming there is some mystical Mormon significance to it all.

You don't get to go claiming associations and connections for which you have no evidence. Just because you know Fact A and Fact B doesn't mean they are necessarily related.

Is it possible that ancient aliens knew ahead of time that mankind would perish...

Wrong question. You first have to prove there's going to be an upheaval, not simply wild speculation of it. Then you have to prove there are aliens before it's meaningful to wonder about what they may or may not know.

You certainly don't get to call people closed-minded for disputing your assertions that beings that may or may not exist know about events that may or may not happen.

...in the periodic reversal of our earth's magnetic poles which JayUtah cannot prove is not linked to a crustal displacement.

You're the one claiming the two are connected, therefore your burden of proof. You can't ask someone to prove a negative; it's logically impossible.

My point was that you and other 2012 doomsayers are so unscientific in your approach that you can't even figure out the direction of the alleged causality. There is nothing in your approach that's based on testing ideas for factuality and strength. Hence thinking people rightly ignore you.

...strong magnetic fields eminating directly under Stonehenge

Strong magnetic fields are ordinarily very easy to detect and measure. Unfortunately magnetometers -- the standard tool for measuring magnetic fields -- do not detect any such fields in or around Stonehenge. The true believers use dowsing to "detect" magnetic fields. Sorry, I don't accept rattle-shaking as a valid method.

...which in my opinion may have contributed to the stabalization of earth's processional wobble.

Fortunately for the world such questions are not a matter of opinion but of practical scientific and engineering principles that can be reasoned about, measured, and tested. You don't get to throw out centuries of scientific progress and rely on voodoo simply because of what you want to believe.

No, the Tunguska event registered on nearby magnetometers. That's not the same as affecting Earth's magnetic field.

Earth's precessional "wobble" has nothing to do with magnetism. Precession is a purely gyroscopic phenomenon, assisted in Earth's case by gravity owing to its presence in a complex gravitational environment. Spinning objects are subject to precession, regardless of whether such objects also exhibit any sort of magnetic behavior.

If you want to argue that some sort of magnetic phenomena, either from Stonehenge or Tunguska, has some sort of effect on Earth's rotation, then you need to provide a quantitative argument with the appropriate measurements and computations. You don't get to say that magnetic pole reversal and precession are "somehow" related without showing your work, and then call scientifically-minded people pig-headed for not believing you.

You know from skill, training, and experience that a certain number of sheets of drywall will be necessary for any one job. You know that quantitative measurements of the framing are required, and you know the arithmetic and utilization factors that determine the connection between the size of the job and the size of the order. Someone who doesn't know how to compute that doesn't have the luxury of telling you that you're wrong and having you believe him.

Unfortunately, [these] are only my ideas and not scientific evidence as to the delay of our earth's shifting poles.

Yes, and this is why no one takes you seriously.

You simply believe the charlatans who wander around with sticks and simply announce that there are magnetic fields present that only they can feel.

You simply latch onto two different scientific concepts and assume you can conflate them without people asking you to justify that.

BigDon
2010-Mar-22, 06:54 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/07/uk_enl_1184598005/html/1.stm

In case anyone's wondering, the modern recreation is on the left :)

And an obvious alien space port on the right. With a "place gantry here" marker.

Weltraum
2010-Mar-22, 07:11 PM
And an obvious alien space port on the right. With a "place gantry here" marker.

:lol: Is it more likely that human beings or technologically advanced aliens left that pornographic graffiti on the countryside?

RobDog
2010-Mar-22, 07:21 PM
:lol: Is it more likely that human beings or technologically advanced aliens left that pornographic graffiti on the countryside?

:hand: Anatomically correct graffiti, please. I don't want to be accused of posting inappropriate material before I've even lost my "newbie" status ;)

thomheg
2010-Mar-22, 07:39 PM
One of mankinds greatest mysteries, the Nazca Lines in Peru, may have been solved.
My personal 'theory' about the Nazca Lines is very different. I think, they were scratched into muddy ground, while this area was a lake, that was drying out. This is my assumption, because I assume those flat planes to be generated in a process similar to the Atacama desert, that raised the area above the mean see level long ago, together with the raising of the Andes. Than the area fell dry and left shallow muddy areas, that were easy to draw in.
The interesting problem, though, is the timing, because e.g. the Atacama Desert is supposed to be dry for 15 million years. So some advanced ancestors of us have to have lived that long ago.

captain swoop
2010-Mar-22, 08:05 PM
My personal 'theory' about the Nazca Lines is very different. I think, they were scratched into muddy ground, while this area was a lake, that was drying out. This is my assumption, because I assume those flat planes to be generated in a process similar to the Atacama desert, that raised the area above the mean see level long ago, together with the raising of the Andes. Than the area fell dry and left shallow muddy areas, that were easy to draw in.
The interesting problem, though, is the timing, because e.g. the Atacama Desert is supposed to be dry for 15 million years. So some advanced ancestors of us have to have lived that long ago.

Thomheg Do not hijack this already marginal thread with your own ATMclaims

Garrison
2010-Mar-22, 08:26 PM
looking up the Horizon documentary on Nazca I went off at a tangent and found this page that details a recreation of one of the Nazca figures and give a bit of the history of investigations into the lines:

http://www.onagocag.com/nazca.html

Now orreman7 care to concede that it is after all possible to create such figures using nothing but purely terrestrial techniques that would have been accessible to the Nazca people?

rigel
2010-Mar-22, 08:28 PM
When I was 8 about 50 years ago, me and my friends made some straight lines, circles and designs in a 5 acre wheat field. It wasn't hard to do. We were justmaking a place to play. The designs got bigger over several days until the farmer chased us off.

HenrikOlsen
2010-Mar-22, 10:14 PM
Just tried the Baez list (http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/crackpot.html),
-5+10(stopped counting on page 1)*1+5(ditto)*2+3(ditto)*3+3*5+5+10+2*20+50=144

orreman7
2010-Mar-23, 02:12 AM
I'm still trying to figure out how to post more effectively so please excuse my delays in answering questions. JayUtah, I just showed my girlfriend the same image on the computer of the photocopy of the single crafts left contour and she saw it almost immediately and was curious when I showed her your posts where you and others claim not to see it. She looks through a microscope for a living so I think she was qualified to see if a contour existed. My hand drawn example is nothing but an aid. The problem here is you claim to "have formal training in photographic analysis and interpretation" and yet you claim that "They are not very indistinct dots" and that "nobody can see it and everyone agrees that your outline is pure fiction" This is apparantly not just a forum on conspiracies but is a conspiracy in itself.

orreman7
2010-Mar-23, 02:23 AM
I refuse to believe that you dont see that contour and know deep down that the photo is real and that I am being as honest as I possible can because I'm to stupid to get this much publicity on my own. My only obvious motive is to share my story (without charge) to anyone who will hear it. Not once have I tried to profit off the use of my photos or story. You don't see any advertisements or pleas for donations on my website. In a matter of days by story will once again will be published in a local magazine which I will certainly share with this forum if I haven't been kicked off yet.

Gillianren
2010-Mar-23, 02:36 AM
If you answer questions, you won't get kicked off. You might want to start with mine about why looking at the grain through a magnifying glass isn't actually accomplishing anything. It doesn't matter what your girlfriend does for a living; she isn't going to get meaningful information that way, either. It is not physically possible by definition.

kleindoofy
2010-Mar-23, 02:40 AM
... I am being as honest as I possible can ...
Nobody here doubts your honesty.

We just don't accept your conclusions.

orreman7
2010-Mar-23, 02:56 AM
My unidentified objects are indeed identified JayUtah and if you had some cataract surgery maybe you could see the outline of the single craft that so many other professionals can see. Without the acceptance of that vital piece of evidence there is no way you could make the link to the other UFO photos with the same contours or the related ancient artifacts including the Nazca Lines in Peru. And now your slandering the good name of those eye witnesses who saw the actual Kecksberg UFO and supplied invaluable testimony to numerous production crews that duplicated the object. The best of these was the "Unsolved Mysteries" reproduction and the objects contour almost exactly matches the single Inaja UFO. Now I'm spending a lot of energy and time in this forum Jay and you seem to be leading your flock astray with unfounded assumptions. Let's resolve this issue by sending the photos to a lab of your choice here in San Diego and have their verdict posted on this forum. If they don't see the contour, I'll stop posting. Your idea of reality is based on your current concept of reality. Hopefully one day it will expand.

PetersCreek
2010-Mar-23, 03:01 AM
I'm still trying to figure out how to post more effectively so please excuse my delays in answering questions.

If you have time to tell us about your incredulity, tell us about pending magazine articles, and take other little side tracks, you have time to answer questions. Make your next post and every post thereafter an honest attempt to answer the questions that remain outstanding. Until you have done that, bring up no other points of discussion.

Geo Kaplan
2010-Mar-23, 03:05 AM
I'm still trying to figure out how to post more effectively so please excuse my delays in answering questions. JayUtah, I just showed my girlfriend the same image on the computer of the photocopy of the single crafts left contour and she saw it almost immediately and was curious when I showed her your posts where you and others claim not to see it. She looks through a microscope for a living so I think she was qualified to see if a contour existed. My hand drawn example is nothing but an aid. The problem here is you claim to "have formal training in photographic analysis and interpretation" and yet you claim that "They are not very indistinct dots" and that "nobody can see it and everyone agrees that your outline is pure fiction" This is apparantly not just a forum on conspiracies but is a conspiracy in itself.

No conspiracy. The most likely explanation is that the same mechanism operative in the Rorschach test is at work here. Humans are so good at pattern recognition that we often see things that simply aren't there. Famous optical illusions rely on our over-eager image recognition system. A little suggestion by someone can encourage the process, particularly if that someone is a loved one, as in this case. That's why a dispassionate third-party analysis is important, or else you run the great risk of confirmation bias, as has happened in your case. We have no skin in the game, so to speak, and none of us see what you see. Sorry, that's not a conspiracy, that's science.

PetersCreek
2010-Mar-23, 03:06 AM
My unidentified objects are indeed identified JayUtah and if you had some cataract surgery maybe you could see the outline of the single craft that so many other professionals can see.

And that will be quite enough of that behavior.

orreman7
2010-Mar-23, 03:12 AM
Gillianren I don't think I understand your position. First of all during the enlarging process in my dark room it was essential to use a magnifying loop to focus in on the grain of the negative for maximun clarity, and thats just in developing. Second with my UFO photo it was only after the dots were blown up to grain that any accurate assumptions could be made, which I did. There was a clear acorn contour on the single crafts left side along with a projection and so much more.

Kleindoofy- I think that you just wrote the first positive thing I've read about myself in this forum. Now I would like to ask you human to human do you see the combination of dots in the single craft that form a recognizable pattern that resembles an acorn? Take a moment and review the image pleassssse.
http://www.orreman7.com/BestUFOphoto2.html

Van Rijn
2010-Mar-23, 03:27 AM
I'm still trying to figure out how to post more effectively so please excuse my delays in answering questions.


If you're having trouble with the mechanics of how to post (using the quote function and so on) ask. Folks here would be happy to help you with that. By the way, I know that there is a temptation to just respond to the most recent posts, but that doesn't answer the previously posted questions.

orreman7
2010-Mar-23, 03:53 AM
Geo Kaplan- While I may have overreacted with my conspiracy claim, Im still having a tough time believing that none of you see what I see. And I agree maybe a dispassionate third party is exactly what is required. I must admit that no expert has verbally confirmed the acorn contour. Maybe a thermal image? whatever it is I'm game

orreman7
2010-Mar-23, 03:55 AM
I am having trouble with the quote function and need some advice so I can go back and answer questions. Thank you

Gillianren
2010-Mar-23, 03:56 AM
Gillianren I don't think I understand your position. First of all during the enlarging process in my dark room it was essential to use a magnifying loop to focus in on the grain of the negative for maximun clarity, and thats just in developing. Second with my UFO photo it was only after the dots were blown up to grain that any accurate assumptions could be made, which I did. There was a clear acorn contour on the single crafts left side along with a projection and so much more.

The grain of the film is the absolute smallest amount it can, by definition, resolve. If it's smaller than the grain, tough noogies for your picture--it won't appear. If you look at the grain through a magnifying glass, you are getting a closer look at the grain, not at whatever it is you've photographed. It's like a pixel in digital photography. You can't resolve it any further. If your item only appeared when you blew it up to grain, the odds are very good, to the point of near-certainty, that what you've got there is just something too small to be resolved. This is basic photography. May I suggest again Blow-Up? It really is an excellent film which shows the madness a person can be driven to by trying to see more in a picture than could have been captured.

Gillianren
2010-Mar-23, 03:58 AM
I am having trouble with the quote function and need some advice so I can go back and answer questions. Thank you

There is a button at the bottom of every post which says "quote." Click on it. It will then take you to a reply screen. The thing you're trying to quote will appear, as will everything else from the relative post. Simply delete what you don't want to respond to--assuming it isn't a direct question per forum rules--and type what you want to say after that.

Van Rijn
2010-Mar-23, 04:10 AM
I am having trouble with the quote function and need some advice so I can go back and answer questions. Thank you

As Gillian says, use the quote function for the post you're responding to. If you want to delete part of the post, leave the "[/QUOTE]" at the end. So if I wanted to quote part of your post above, it would look like this on the edit window:




I am having trouble with the quote function



You'll notice that your name is there, and that number is a link to your post. That makes it a lot easier to figure out who a person is responding to.

Spoons
2010-Mar-23, 04:11 AM
Please, enough of this. Answer the questions or retract your statements.

Tedward
2010-Mar-23, 05:43 AM
In all of this many pages have I missed the film, setings and link to original unadulterated as possible image? Orreman7 post 240 says link not found. I am assuming it is on a negative not digital.

orreman7
2010-Mar-23, 05:48 AM
Now orreman7 care to concede that it is after all possible to create such figures using nothing but purely terrestrial techniques that would have been accessible to the Nazca people?[/QUOTE]
That was a great link but in proved just how tough it was to create the real Nazca Lines and the team that attempted to do it admitted as much; "Since we could not mark the lines by clearing the ground to expose lighter colored earth, as the Nazcas did". Of course just walking on the desert floor creates a mark. So they don't duplicate the ancient technique and instead drop some lime on grass and used common tools to closely replicate the condor. Thats as bad as me photographing birds close to me but not over the spot the UFOs were hovering, and claiming a legitimate scientific experiment. They also admit that "to some extent" the images can be seen from the ground. That leaves an entire flat desert with no high vantage point to create perfect large geoglyths. Even Maria Reiche admits; "That ancient Peruvians must have had instruments and equipment which we ignore and which togeather with ancient knowledge were buried and hidden". The geoglyth team really stretched their cred when they stated " In summary we do know that it was the Nazcas who produced the drawings". Based on what? a few scattered posts, some resemblace to pottery and an lame attempt to duplicate a drawing on dissimiliar surface. I think the term is Hogwash and I stand my ground

orreman7
2010-Mar-23, 05:57 AM
In all of this many pages have I missed the film, setings and link to original unadulterated as possible image? Orreman7 post 240 says link not found. I am assuming it is on a negative not digital.

Yes I took the photo with my Canon EOS 650 using 100asa 35mm film and a 50-150 zoom lens. The best copies were made recently by Chrome Digital Photography for the "Aliens" exhibit at the Air & Space Museum. They were one of the professionals on air to declare that after examinating the objects that they appeared to be flying and were unidentifiable. I believe they would know the difference if the objects were birds or planes. Either way they printed an extra set for me which I would be delighted to have a third party examine to settle my claims.