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Argos
2010-Mar-17, 03:26 PM
Then this might interest you.


If you can play the guitar, you can quit your day job!

Well, maybe. But independent musicians who are accepted by YouTube’s “Musicians Wanted” section will be able to do just that if their music videos and live musical performances draw enough views through a new feature of Google’s YouTube Partner Program.

Source (http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2010/03/sxsw-youtube-launches-partner-program-for-indie-bands/)

YouTube´s 'Musicians Wanted' (http://www.youtube.com/musicianswanted) program

HenrikOlsen
2010-Mar-17, 05:58 PM
Read the terms of service and check who has copyright and/or subsequent rights to control publication other places.

If you can't find terms of service and an example agreement, start looking for the dead fish.

Argos
2010-Mar-17, 06:06 PM
"NO free lunch" applies, as with everything in life.

J Riff
2010-Mar-18, 04:34 AM
I can't see posting original music on youtube unless one has a corresponding product to sell, a CD or otherwise..
and if you have that- who needs this lot ?
Seems a bit glassy-eyed and elitist to me.
Quit your job and play music on youTube.
Uh-huh.

mugaliens
2010-Mar-18, 07:21 AM
Cool! I've been teaching myself to play guitar now for about a month, with 10 chords down pat, about 90 to 100 more to go.

I'll let you know in year...

EDG
2010-Mar-18, 07:23 AM
10 chords should be enough to play a heck of a lot of songs... most of the time you won't ever need to know an A-flat-minor-diminished-9th after all ;)

J Riff
2010-Mar-18, 08:17 AM
Minor diminished ninth. That's a new one, don't reckon it actually exists.. except in 'special' harmony. )
If you are learning 'chords' also known as 'arpeggios', bear in mind the teachings of the great Joe Pass. You can probably find his vid out there or on youtube. There are only three types of chords, sez Joe.
Yes, u guessed it - Major, Minor and Seventh.

Daffy
2010-Mar-18, 02:17 PM
Minor diminished ninth. That's a new one, don't reckon it actually exists.. except in 'special' harmony. )
If you are learning 'chords' also known as 'arpeggios', bear in mind the teachings of the great Joe Pass. You can probably find his vid out there or on youtube. There are only three types of chords, sez Joe.
Yes, u guessed it - Major, Minor and Seventh.

Arpeggios are how you play the chords---each note individually---not the chords themselves; and I can't even begin to guess what he meant by the claim that there are only three types of chords. A thousands jazz musicians just sat up in their graves and called hoarsely for a double whiskey over that one!

And minor diminished 9ths are perfectly real.

A.DIM
2010-Mar-18, 02:42 PM
Cool! I've been teaching myself to play guitar now for about a month, with 10 chords down pat, about 90 to 100 more to go.

I'll let you know in year...

You really only need four; a la Ramones.
:)

J Riff
2010-Mar-19, 07:30 AM
oh music theoreticians huh ?
Minor dim 9ths are redundant chords even tho they appear in common phrygian scale tones. The chord itself , mi -9 ... yuk. Minor chords abhor flat 9s whether they are ma7 or dominant 7ths. Ive never seen a plain mi/dim9 chord notated anywhere. Maybe Bill Evans could sneak one in.
For ex: Take A(mi/dim9). It's C13 among other synonyms.. but in any of the 3 keys where it may appear ( G, F,C) it will never function as itself. Really it can only show up on the 3 chord, hence key of F. Sounds awful to the point of unusability.
Doesnt mean it's not a 'real' chord. Just bad notation. It doesn't work with melodic or harmonic minor scale harmony either.
There are exactly 3 families of chords.
Majors 1,3,5,(6,7,9,11,13) as well as the odd altered 5, almost never the 9.
Minors 1 flat3 5 (6,7,9,11,13) and again the altered 5 and never the nine.
Dominant Sevenths- 1 3 5 flat7 (6,9,11,13) and full alteration of the five AND the nine.
there's no chord that doesn't belong to one of these groups.
Now you know. Go practice. )

mugaliens
2010-Mar-19, 08:49 AM
You really only need four; a la Ramones.
:)

Lol, you're right :lol: I can play a three songs all the way through. :) Probably more if I knew what they might be. I'm working through a workbook, however, and they don't make it easy! More chords, more chords, and not easy ones.

Daffy
2010-Mar-19, 01:25 PM
oh music theoreticians huh ?
Minor dim 9ths are redundant chords even tho they appear in common phrygian scale tones. The chord itself , mi -9 ... yuk. Minor chords abhor flat 9s whether they are ma7 or dominant 7ths. Ive never seen a plain mi/dim9 chord notated anywhere. Maybe Bill Evans could sneak one in.
For ex: Take A(mi/dim9). It's C13 among other synonyms.. but in any of the 3 keys where it may appear ( G, F,C) it will never function as itself. Really it can only show up on the 3 chord, hence key of F. Sounds awful to the point of unusability.
Doesnt mean it's not a 'real' chord. Just bad notation. It doesn't work with melodic or harmonic minor scale harmony either.
There are exactly 3 families of chords.
Majors 1,3,5,(6,7,9,11,13) as well as the odd altered 5, almost never the 9.
Minors 1 flat3 5 (6,7,9,11,13) and again the altered 5 and never the nine.
Dominant Sevenths- 1 3 5 flat7 (6,9,11,13) and full alteration of the five AND the nine.
there's no chord that doesn't belong to one of these groups.
Now you know. Go practice. )

So...if I follow what you're trying to say, minor 9th chords:

a) Do not exist at all or
b) They are "bad notation," and
c) You think they sound yucky.

Sarcasm noted...I will continue to practice because playing music is what I do for a living. Keep working on those arppegios.

Btw, I like The Ramones.

tdvance
2010-Mar-19, 08:39 PM
You really only need four; a la Ramones.
:)

You know, Nancy Sinatra proved you could sell records by singing 5 or 6 notes.

tdvance
2010-Mar-19, 08:43 PM
I've played with (more than played) American standards (Irving Berlin, etc.) while teaching myself to play piano, and I had never before realized how many different exotic chords are there! I thought Jazz had a lot of chords.... It's funny, the songs don't sound exotic, so I guess I assumed it was mostly the "usual" chords, e.g. the three my grandfather taught me before I learned to read (music or English): C major, F major, and G major. I could play by ear any simple song (e.g. Mary had a Little Lamb) with just those three. Next, grade school teacher suggested adding a minor 7th to the G, and---wow, exotic! To go beyond that, though, you need a lot more chords.

tdvance
2010-Mar-19, 08:45 PM
So...if I follow what you're trying to say, minor 9th chords:

a) Do not exist at all or
b) They are "bad notation," and
c) You think they sound yucky.

Sarcasm noted...I will continue to practice because playing music is what I do for a living. Keep working on those arppegios.

Btw, I like The Ramones.

I don't make money playing music, but I have seen minor 9th chords in American Standards---they sound funny just by themselves to me, but put in the progression....they blend right in and give the song some "color".

Daffy
2010-Mar-19, 10:08 PM
I've played with (more than played) American standards (Irving Berlin, etc.) while teaching myself to play piano, and I had never before realized how many different exotic chords are there! I thought Jazz had a lot of chords.... It's funny, the songs don't sound exotic, so I guess I assumed it was mostly the "usual" chords, e.g. the three my grandfather taught me before I learned to read (music or English): C major, F major, and G major. I could play by ear any simple song (e.g. Mary had a Little Lamb) with just those three. Next, grade school teacher suggested adding a minor 7th to the G, and---wow, exotic! To go beyond that, though, you need a lot more chords.

My first professional experience with more advanced chords was when I auditioned for a swing band. I got the gig, but then turned it down because I didn't feel at the time that I was smooth enough with those types of chords; I still don't, really. But one never (hopefully) stops learning.

I agree completely with your comment on minor 9ths.

novaderrik
2010-Mar-20, 02:27 AM
http://www.cracked.com/funny-1677-indie-music/
a handy guide to help you decide if you can make it as an indie musician... be warned- it is Cracked, so i think there may be some language..

J Riff
2010-Mar-20, 03:19 AM
Guitar player theorists. )

!st off...and to be sure ... what is this chord you are attempting to define ? It occurs to me that you may actually be referring to ' A minor diminished' and then adding a natural 9 on top ? Wrong, and does not exist.
If you mean a plain Aminor triad..with a flat nine chucked up on top..then yes it exists.. but you MUST define the 7th degree.. either natural Ma7, or dominant flat 7th. Or even a six if you want to be troublesome about it. OK ? Otherwise it's a partial chord and cannot function as itself, which it never would anyway since the root inversion sounds like crud.
Try it. A, C, E, Bflat. Rancid, not my fault ! Would function as at least 3 other chords before being called Ami -9. Does NOT exist as such in american or any other standards.
The most obvious synonym for ami7-9 is C13. If you want Ami/ma-9 it's C13+5. Using the 6 turns it into C13-5. Clear ?
Like i said.. in any of the 3 Major keys where this voicing may appear ( f,g,c) it will function as the 5 chord in F, the 4 chord in G, and most likely be called C13/A in the root key. Which won't be happening in anything short of atonal noise music, where it still would not be defined as Ami-9. What happened to the 7 ? What key is it therefore in ?
There's 2 more sets of synonyms to go thru before one would ever get near defining this chord as ami-9. Nor does it appear in true minor harmony.
You do not define a chord by the convenient order of it's notes, as if it's cut off from all other chords. It has to function as something. So, even tho u may run thru these four notes everytime u whiz up and down a phyrigian scale, it will never, ever be defined as the 3 chord with a flat 9 slung on top, as you have set forth.
I had some difficulty with partial chords like this in the 70s when I started teaching music for a living. It took a Berkely jazz grad teacher to clear it up to the point where redundant chords no longer messed up the tune OR my mind.
Guitar players invented tablature..it should be no surprise that they believe in all kinds of theoretically incorrect chords either.

J Riff
2010-Mar-20, 03:28 AM
Wait a sec... now you guys are on about minor 9ths ?? What happened to Minor diminished 9 ? Not the same thing at all.
Here I thot we had a real theory question worth responding to... but NO.. it's back to plain ol' minor 9s.
Phooie. Well then , here's a question for all you guitar bangers:
: What do you throw a drowning thrash/metal guitar player ?

HenrikOlsen
2010-Mar-20, 11:49 AM
Guitar player theorists. )
Since you claim to know all about chords, please state your credentials and references for your claims.

Because you're sounding like you're coming from a completely different musical tradition and don't actually know what people are talking about.
Unless we can establish that everyone's talking the same language and using the terms the same way, you're going to continue sounding like you read too much Wikipedia.

ritchyrev
2010-Mar-20, 12:32 PM
Hi there,
Couldn't help myself I just had to comment on this. Sorry its off topic to the OP.

EDG_ wrote first
"A-flat-minor-diminished-9th "

J Riff wrote
"Minor diminished ninth. That's a new one, don't reckon it actually exists"

Then Daffy wrote
"And minor diminished 9ths are perfectly real"

Daffy, could you point me to somewhere that shows the use of a minor diminished 9th?

Then J Riff wrote
"Minor dim 9ths are redundant chords even tho they appear in common phrygian scale tones. The chord itself , mi -9 ... yuk. Minor chords abhor flat 9s whether they are ma7 or dominant 7ths"

My take on this is as follows.

I have never seen a chord written like A-flat-minor-diminished-9th
( It was obviously meant as a joke, but anyway)

How do you interpret it?

If I say its minor diminished with a 9th, the diminished cancels the minor.
A diminished chord is minor.
Ab dim is already minor, the 9th implies the 7th is added, which in this case would be double flatted because the seventh is diminished as well.
Not to be confused with Half diminished or m7th(b5).
That would then be a diminished 9th. (1, b3, b5, bb7, b9)

If I interpret it as a minor chord with a diminished 9th added to it, I don't see why everyone says it sounds bad. What's so bad sounding about an A flat minor Triad?

To diminish a 2nd, 3rd, 6th or 7th you have to double flat. One flat is minor.
Only the the unison, octave, P4th and p5th are diminished with one flat.

So a diminished 9 is the octave.

For that reason I can't see how this would fit Phrygian. If its the first way, there is no b5, or bb7 in Phrygian.
If the second way, no problem if interpreted as diminished meaning one flat, which is wrong. Phrygian has a minor 2nd.

Then Daffy wrote
"So...if I follow what you're trying to say, minor 9th chords:

a) Do not exist at all or
b) They are "bad notation," and
c) You think they sound yucky."

Which is not what J Riff said. How did Minor diminished ninth become minor ninth?

Anyway, it's confusing enough with all the different ways that chords are actually written.

Cheers.

ritchyrev
2010-Mar-20, 12:58 PM
Guitar player theorists. )


Guitar players invented tablature..

Uhm, not quite. Tab has been around longer than guitars. Mainly developed by lute players and other fretted string instruments.

ritchyrev
2010-Mar-20, 01:11 PM
Arpeggios are how you play the chords---each note individually---not the chords themselves;
That's right,but it got me thinking.
I figure if you are a flat picker (use a plectrum) like me, and don't use hybrid picking, you can't actually play a chord on a guitar.

With one pick you can only play one string at a time, so when you strum a chord, you actually start by playing an arpeggio that sustains into a chord.
Played fast enough it sounds like the notes are being played at the same time.

I know, I'm just being pedantic.:)

ritchyrev
2010-Mar-20, 01:37 PM
: What do you throw a drowning thrash/metal guitar player ?

Okay, I'll have a try at an answer since this applies to me.( the thrash/metal player part not the drowning) Actually I'd be be more melodic metal.

My answer would be

A jazz muso and a classical muso. Because after listening to them tell him" you play too fast, it sounds too aggressive, it's too atonal, you don't know what your playing, it all sounds the same, the vocals are just grunts, you can't understand the lyrics" etc., drowning would be a preferred option.:lol:

Daffy
2010-Mar-20, 02:23 PM
That's right,but it got me thinking.
I figure if you are a flat picker (use a plectrum) like me, and don't use hybrid picking, you can't actually play a chord on a guitar.

With one pick you can only play one string at a time, so when you strum a chord, you actually start by playing an arpeggio that sustains into a chord.
Played fast enough it sounds like the notes are being played at the same time.

I know, I'm just being pedantic.:)

I actually expected that one. ;) I play both with a pick or fingerstyle, although I am lousy at hybrid picking. So there.

As far as diminished minors, since a diminished chord lowers the 5th, I am not certain how it cancels the minor, since that is determined by the lowered 3rd. However, if everyone says that is incorrect, I guess I was taught wrong. As I say, always trying to learn!

mugaliens
2010-Mar-20, 03:34 PM
Ok, I now have a small blister under one of my callouses, can actually play through American Pie (very, very slowly), so what does that mean? Just under a month beginning.

ritchyrev
2010-Mar-20, 03:36 PM
As far as diminished minors, since a diminished chord lowers the 5th, I am not certain how it cancels the minor, since that is determined by the lowered 3rd. However, if everyone says that is incorrect, I guess I was taught wrong. As I say, always trying to learn!

Not quite what I was trying to say. What I meant was if you see a diminished chord, say Cdim7, it is already implied a minor. You could write C minor dim7, but the minor term would be redundant, since a diminished chord is minor. I guess it would be the same as saying A Major Dominant seventh. We don't need the Major term because a dominant seventh is Major.

I always found diminished chord notation confusing. I prefer to use "min(b5)"to describe a diminished triad.
For Full Diminished "dim7" or O
For Half Diminished "min7(b5)" or an O with a slash through.

You only have to do a Google to see how many different ways there are to notate chords. It can be confusing. :confused:

ritchyrev
2010-Mar-20, 04:22 PM
Ok, I now have a small blister under one of my callouses, can actually play through American Pie (very, very slowly), so what does that mean? Just under a month beginning.

It means your finger tips are gunna hurt for a while.

It's fairly normal, until you build up decent callouses. Your finger tips aren't used to pushing on steel strings repeatedly.

Wait till you start bending and sliding, that will hurt for a while too.

As you progress and work all your fingers more, you will find they become super sensitive. Tapping on a desktop, shutting a door,picking something up,will all feel like needles rammed into your finger tips.

On the plus side, it doesn't last long. The trick is to just practice things like picking or exercising your fingers that don't hurt.Try to use less pressure to fret the string. Don't let the callouses soften by doing the dishes etc. Wear gloves.

I have had blisters under blisters, from doing repeated full fretboard bends and slides. That seriously hurt for a while.

tdvance
2010-Mar-20, 05:58 PM
Since you claim to know all about chords, please state your credentials and references for your claims.

Because you're sounding like you're coming from a completely different musical tradition and don't actually know what people are talking about.
Unless we can establish that everyone's talking the same language and using the terms the same way, you're going to continue sounding like you read too much Wikipedia.

Not only that-- but claiming a constructable chord "doesn't exist"---if you can play it, it exists.

tdvance
2010-Mar-20, 06:03 PM
and as pointed out--there are multiple ways of notating chords.

I confused some people by mentioning a C major minor 7th---but that's just the ordinary C7 in pop music (dominant 7th). In my music theory class, we had a naming system in which this became C major minor 7th--a C major chord with a minor 7th appended. What was the chord above---A flat diminished minor 9th? That would be

A-flat C-flat E-double-flat B double flat (optionally with a G double-flat between E-double flat and B double flat)

or enharmonically, A-flat B D F A

J Riff
2010-Mar-20, 10:11 PM
We should have a music theory quiz in here. I've been reading thru the math quiz going on in another thread and it is mind-boggling, I can't even pretend to follow most of it.

To clear this dim thing up. Someone said: Aflat Minor Dim 9
the Aflat doesnt matter, could be any "Minor Dim 9"
Since there is nothing resembling a 'minor diminished' anywhere in music theory, what u said is: A Minor flat9, or Aminor-9.
Diminshed can simply mean lowered one semitone, same as the word flat, or the minus sign.

Diminished is not by definition always minor. If it is viewed as a minor the result is a mi6-5 chord. (actually four of them) It is more common to view it as a dominant seventh with a flat 9. (-9, or dim9) and no root, again four of them.
The chord you accidently identified shows up, annoyingly, in the third mode of the major scale, phrygian.
I recall hitting this exact chord around 1976 and going what the- ..? I had to ask someone what to do with it.
Try it. Take a G triad with a nine on top- G,B,D,A. This chord is properly called G add9 since we are leaving out the seven.
Now move it up the scale. Next comes Ami add9, and then Bmi add-9, the chord originally mentioned.
You are looking at the five chord. Even with a low B bass note this chord will function as D7 or D13 - the five of the key, every time, in every song.
Yesss.. you could pass thru this chord many times.. but it's like taking a Bach piece and starting to write the chord names for guitar players. It turns into more chord symbols than there are space for.
So the thing is to learn to read music. Tablature will mess you up good if you ever want to get real about it.

J Riff
2010-Mar-20, 10:23 PM
Ritchey Im trying to make sense out of what you are saying, and some of it is right and some is confusing.
It is true that there is a ton of 'guitar player' theory out there. You can avoid all this junk by simply going and studying what a great player has to say, and how they view chords, keys, substitutions and so forth.
Try Joe Pass, or Ted Greene. If you don't know at least major scale theory it can be messy, but you will know what's what if you stick with it a few weeks or months.

J Riff
2010-Mar-20, 11:19 PM
I've started a new thread, a music theory quiz, for anyone interested enough to give it a shot. This could really help some people out, particularly guitar players who are often surrounded by an ocean of tablature and misinformation.

What do you throw a drowning thrash/metal guitar player ??

His Amp.

Ritchey or anyone else, have a go at posting a question. Could be fun.

Daffy
2010-Mar-21, 02:51 PM
Since there is nothing resembling a 'minor diminished' anywhere in music theory...

You keep saying that as incontrovertible fact, and yet I see minor diminished chords used all the time. At this point it seems to be a matter of opinion regarding notation preference; but clearly there are those who disagree with you.

J Riff
2010-Mar-22, 10:08 AM
Probably right. I have seen so many takes on theory, there's schools of thought like fish in the ocean. Minor diminished. Sounds good. Somebody Wikpedia it, I've never used it to look up much, let alone music theory.
They had these things called music books, long ago, there's a pile of them in the corner that I feel extreme guilt over not dusting off.
Wait a tic, here's one I hadn't seen before ..." Minor Diminished Polychordalism in the Music of the 7th century Huns. " by A. G. Itpicker.

Daffy
2010-Mar-22, 02:31 PM
Wait a tic, here's one I hadn't seen before ..." Minor Diminished Polychordalism in the Music of the 7th century Huns. " by A. G. Itpicker.

LOL!

Our discussion reminds me a bit of Frank Zappa's record: "Shut Up and Play Yer Guitar!"

HenrikOlsen
2010-Mar-22, 05:48 PM
Ok, I now have a small blister under one of my callouses, [] so what does that mean?
Not a bleeding blister? After one month? You're not practicing hard enough!:D

tdvance
2010-Mar-22, 07:01 PM
I forgot the name of the movie (group of Irish 20-somethings get together to form a soul band, yeah the irony was part of the joke) but one scene, the pro trumpet player they managed to attract into the band told the guy practicing guitar, "don't stop until your hand falls off."

Argos
2010-Mar-22, 07:35 PM
So, is anybody taking part of YouTube´s "Musicians Wanted" initiative?

J Riff
2010-Mar-22, 10:04 PM
Musicians wanted posters can be found at the Police station.

Maybe that movie was called 'The Commitments' ?

Saw Frank Z twice, both times he played completely new unheard material, a lot of instrumental jazz one time, and when the audience got restless he lectured them on drug use, told everyone to put out their reefers, etc.
Hard to believe now, but Zappa had to pay for his own projects, the record company would never back him up. He claimed to have never been able to afford to properly finish any of his projects before he had to go back on the road and earn $. No friends, only employees.

Daffy
2010-Mar-23, 12:25 AM
Musicians wanted posters can be found at the Police station.

Maybe that movie was called 'The Commitments' ?

Saw Frank Z twice, both times he played completely new unheard material, a lot of instrumental jazz one time, and when the audience got restless he lectured them on drug use, told everyone to put out their reefers, etc.
Hard to believe now, but Zappa had to pay for his own projects, the record company would never back him up. He claimed to have never been able to afford to properly finish any of his projects before he had to go back on the road and earn $. No friends, only employees.

I have great respect for FZ...however, like all of us, he could be very inconsistent. He often seemed to want people to play his music simply for the art of it, but he was always very careful to get all the money that was due him personally.

Or at least that's my impression. I didn't know the man (wish I had) and my opinion is based on (probably unreliable) interviews he gave. But whatever the truth of it, he was a brilliant artist who always pushed the envelope; I applaud him.

Cougar
2010-Mar-23, 01:46 AM
So, is anybody taking part of YouTube´s "Musicians Wanted" initiative?

Well, uh, making music is one thing; making music videos is quite another. :o

J Riff
2010-Mar-23, 09:33 AM
.. this town..thiii-iiiisss town ... is just a sealed Tuna sandwich .
FFranks version of Stairway to Heaven is nice, too.

It's really hard to get a real gig, and ridiculously easy to get one on the world-wide-web ! Go figure.