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Fazor
2010-Mar-17, 06:36 PM
The Cleveland Sports Syndrome (Popularly 'CS^2' in medical circles) has long plagued Ohio. Each year we hope and pray for a cure. Symptoms occasionally seem to diminish. But before we can declare ourselves CS^2 free, the illness strikes again.

I'm of course talking about the Browns and the Indian's persistent tendency to 'clean house' in exchange for promising new players, only to trade those players once they start to develop for washed-up old players in the belief that said players aren't on the decline, and that the Cleveland sports environment will spark a miraculous comeback.

Yes, more specifically I'm talking about the cutting of Browns QB's Derek Anderson and Brady Quinn, in exchange for an 8-year backup that few of us on the east coast have ever heard of, and a starting QB coming off his worst year ever, whose best year was in 2003--seven years ago.

I'm not a die-hard Anderson and Quinn fan by any means, so this is not a bitter response to losing any particularly liked player. And the QB dynamic in Cleveland certainly needed to change. I just don't see how this is a good solution.

To me, it looks like the same kind of hiring advice that brought coach Romeo Crennel to the club in 2005. We saw how that worked out. Really, it's the same thing that brought Mangini as his replacement. So far, that's not worked out either (I'm surprised they kept him, but I'm glad they did. One year isn't enough to get the measure of a coach; particularly since he's playing guys he didn't chose for the team).

Again, the Browns share this affliction with their baseball-brothers, the Cleveland Indians. After coming so close in 2007, we saw major changes to the club, particularly the pitching staff. Now I understand having to work with salary and budget. But hearing 2010 pre-season chatter about how the Indians have a "decent" line-up on offense, but have absolutely no pitching and thus will likely suffer through at least another sad year is a hard thing to swallow when at the end of 2007, we had arguably two of the top 3 pitchers in the American league, backed by a handful of only slightly less great pitchers. By the end of last year, we had nothing.

Also note how we let go Casey Blake and Ryan Garko; not exceptional players by any measure, but both experienced and dependable. Worse still was the release of Victor Martinez behind the plate; recently hailed by ESPN as one of the top three catchers of the decade (for his all-around abilities both offense and defense), at a position that is extremely difficult to find such players as the need far outweighs the availability of talent (silver lining is that one of their recent minor league pickups is prospected to become another such player, eventually. They'll likely trade him off before then though, since that's a side-effect of the CS^2 disease).

Anyway, I know we have a few Cleveland sports fans around here. Interested on their take on this whole thing. Also interested in any non-Cleveland sports fans who experience similar things in their favorite sport clubs. Does 'young player farming' really ever pay off, particularly when you cycle through it every five years or so?

As for Cleveland; the complete lack of any kind of championship, the rarity of championship appearances, and even the yearly struggle (and mostly failure) to even reach post-season play sort of speaks for itself.

Swift
2010-Mar-17, 06:52 PM
I'm trying very hard to not care (my personal cure) and so far, its working pretty well.

I don't claim any special knowledge about football. I'm not sorry to see either Anderson or Quinn go. Mike Holmgren (the new head of football operations for the Browns), based on past history, would seem to know something about football, and I'm willing to let him do his thing and see what happens. I have fairly low expectations for next year and am willing to give him a year or two to put his system and players in, and see what happens. I suspect the two recently acquired quarterbacks are only a interim step in the process.


But hearing 2010 pre-season chatter about how the Indians have a "decent" line-up...
Really? Who said that? I do know a little more about baseball and I fully expect the 2010 Indians to be horrible. There is a chance they will be improved from last season (no where to go but up), if Acta (the new coach) can make some things happen, Westbrook is healthy, and Fausto can figure out how to pitch again, but if they ended the season at 0.500, it would be close to a miracle.

Go CAVS!

Trebuchet
2010-Mar-17, 06:57 PM
I'm of course talking about the Browns and the Indian's persistent tendency to 'clean house' in exchange for promising new players, only to trade those players once they start to develop for washed-up old players in the belief that said players aren't on the decline, and that the Cleveland sports environment will spark a miraculous comeback.

You've just described the Seattle Mariners in a nutshell.


Go CAVS!

Go Sonics! Oh wait, they did....

Fazor
2010-Mar-17, 06:57 PM
Really? Who said that? I do know a little more about baseball and I fully expect the 2010 Indians to be horrible. There is a chance they will be improved from last season (no where to go but up), if Acta (the new coach) can make some things happen, Westbrook is healthy, and Fausto can figure out how to pitch again, but if they ended the season at 0.500, it would be close to a miracle.

I agree, but should mention that the exact sentiment was "If the players play to their full potential, they line-up should be okay."

That's a huge if, considering that as far as I'm aware, the line-up is largely (or wholly?) unchanged from last year, and it was horrible last year.

Grady had an off year, that was still an okay year. I expect him to recover from that. They mentioned that Kronk (Haffner) would have to hit again like he did in 2007. I watched him play all last season, and saw him two or three times while he was in Columbus recovering from his injury. He just doesn't even seem to be trying anymore. I don't expect any miracle return to greatness for him.

Martinez was their other potent bat, and as mentioned, he's gone. Everyone else has streaks of greatness, but even longer streaks of sub-par at bats. Unless the league has made the ball larger and limited pitching speed this year, I don't see a whole lot changing. And the Indians are more than welcome to come out and prove me wrong.

So yeah, go Cavs! (It's just a shame that I can't stand the NBA. I'm still pulling for a Cleveland team to bring home some kind of championship though!_

kleindoofy
2010-Mar-17, 08:39 PM
Go Red Sox!

Fazor
2010-Mar-17, 08:43 PM
Go Red Sox!

In the summer of 2008 I was driving through Mass, near enough Boston, on my way to Maine. The toll booth operator saw my shirt and said, "Uh oh, you're in Red Sox territory. That's not a Yankees shirt, is it?" It wasn't; but it was their colors and had a logo where a sport's team's logo would go.

I said, "Heck no! It's worse even; I'm an Indian's fan and I'm still [mad] about what you did to us last year."

He just laughed as I drove off. *sniffle*

Swift
2010-Mar-17, 09:14 PM
Since I was born and raised in New York City (but have lived in Cleveland for over 20 years), I am sometimes asked if I am a Yankees fan. I tell fellow Clevelanders I hate the Yankees as much as you do, I was always a Mets fan. I am then usually asked, who would I root for if the Mets played the Indians in the World Series.....

I put that on my list of worries right between Unicorn Attacks and Liechtenstein Invading.

Fazor
2010-Mar-18, 02:14 AM
Since I was born and raised in New York City (but have lived in Cleveland for over 20 years), I am sometimes asked if I am a Yankees fan. I tell fellow Clevelanders I hate the Yankees as much as you do, I was always a Mets fan. I am then usually asked, who would I root for if the Mets played the Indians in the World Series.....

I put that on my list of worries right between Unicorn Attacks and Liechtenstein Invading.

Haha! I always thought I'd be a Mets fan if I had to pick a NY team (all sports) to be a fan of. Cubs, if same was said of Chicago.

Fazor
2010-Mar-18, 03:46 PM
I suspect the two recently acquired quarterbacks are only a interim step in the process.

I forgot that part of the problem. I'm fine with a "Bandaid" solution to the problem (even if it's more of a sutures situation). The thing that I really didn't like to hear was the Browns' expressed interested in Sam Bradford, with the possibility of trading some of there numerous draft picks to move up enough to nab him.

First off, he's already been set back by injuries. Not fair to count him out because of it, but I'd think that should send up a red flag when it comes to risking so much to make him a first-of-first round pick and hinge your clubs future on him being the long term QB.

Secondly, we already have tried to draft low round QBs. Brady Quinn? You just cut him. Charlie Fry? Cut him too. Tim Couch? Yep, cut.

. . . oh well, at least they didn't express interest in Tebow. :)

I'd say use your temporary fix this year, and maybe next. The problem is there's no real must-have QB in the draft, and no real tempting QBs in free agency either. Slim pickin's this year, and on a year where a lot of teams are looking for new franchise QBs.

I'll have to trust Holmgren, but mostly because we have no choice. I do think he'll be good for the Browns. I'm just sick of the Cleveland sports motto: "Maybe next year." Particularly since it's a chant that usually starts months before the coming season!

MAPNUT
2010-Mar-18, 05:38 PM
While we're on the subject of CS^2, I hate seeing a letter that occurs twice represented as S^2. There's nothing "squared" about it; it isn't even S times S. It's just an S and another S. You guys should be scientific types, go back and edit your posts to just CSS!

mike alexander
2010-Mar-18, 05:46 PM
It's the Curse of Rocky Colavito, I tell you.

Cleveland, God bless its aging bones, missed the train fifty years ago, and still can't figure out why it's so lonely on the platform.

Fazor
2010-Mar-18, 05:49 PM
While we're on the subject of CS^2, I hate seeing a letter that occurs twice represented as S^2. There's nothing "squared" about it; it isn't even S times S. It's just an S and another S. You guys should be scientific types, go back and edit your posts to just CSS!
Yeah, but CSS is already in use. I didn't want to associate a mental illness prominent in Cleveland sports management with web design.

I'll agree to rename it to Perbs - Persistent 'Rebuilding' Syndrome. No mathematical notation required.

Swift
2010-Mar-18, 05:55 PM
One other Indians thought....

In many sports, there is often a debate as to how much of a team's performance is the players, and how much is the coaching. Well, the 2010 Indians will be a pretty good test of that. We have basically the same players as last year, but a completely new coaching staff. If nothing else, it will be a good data point.

MAPNUT
2010-Mar-18, 08:13 PM
I'll agree to rename it to Perbs - Persistent 'Rebuilding' Syndrome. No mathematical notation required.

That's good. Although they can't call it "rebuilding" unless they actually had something built at one point that they want to rebuild.

Fazor
2010-Mar-18, 08:14 PM
That's good. Although they can't call it "rebuilding" unless they actually had something built at one point that they want to rebuild.
Hmm. That's sound logic. But the problem is 'logic' has no place in the discussion of Cleveland and their sports. ;) (They use the term 'rebuilding' at least twice a year, between the Browns and the Indians.)

mike alexander
2010-Mar-18, 08:46 PM
Have they ever thought of just switching the players between the Browns and Indians? I don't really see how it could be worse, and the idea of a 350 lb catcher might give anyone thinking of stealing home a pause.

Fazor
2010-Mar-18, 09:04 PM
Have they ever thought of just switching the players between the Browns and Indians? I don't really see how it could be worse, and the idea of a 350 lb catcher might give anyone thinking of stealing home a pause.

I've wondered that myself. Though I wouldn't look forward to the debate over who should be the starter and closer (Quinn? Anderson? Cribbs?) ;)

The real solution is to just recruit LeBron to all three teams. He's such an athlete that he just may be able to single-handedly turn that whole city around.

Swift
2010-Mar-19, 02:14 AM
The real solution is to just recruit LeBron to all three teams. He's such an athlete that he just may be able to single-handedly turn that whole city around.
He did play football in high school, not a bad idea.

I think you could trade the Indians' players with the St. Edwards Girls Field Hockey team and have an improvement (for the Indians, not for St. Eds).

Fazor
2010-Mar-19, 02:32 AM
Hmm. I should have probably watched a pre-season game before I said they have the same lineup. I dont know most of these guys. Their bats look good in the preseason, but that's against preseason pitching.

I'm not holding my breath. I am looking forward to the Clippers' season (Tripple-A ball) so that we have games to go to. Went to a half dozen games or so last year. Want to go to more than that this year.

Swift
2010-Mar-19, 02:10 PM
Hmm. I should have probably watched a pre-season game before I said they have the same lineup. I dont know most of these guys. Their bats look good in the preseason, but that's against preseason pitching.

Don't jump to conclusions about the line-up that way either. There are a lot of guys in camp getting swings that they know will be in Double-A or Triple-A come the regular season. From all that I've heard, the line-up will be a lot like it was post-Victor's trade.

Fazor
2010-Mar-19, 02:11 PM
That explains it, because that's what I thought I had heard too. But last night they made it sound like these guys were more likely prospects for the main roster.

I'll have to watch 'em closer (I only watched about an inning and a half); probably end up seeing a handful of them here in Columbus then.

NEOWatcher
2010-Mar-19, 05:05 PM
I think you could trade the Indians' players with the St. Edwards Girls Field Hockey team and have an improvement (for the Indians, not for St. Eds).
It's hard enough to watch the Indians' players now. Now you're going to put skirts on them? :sick:

Fazor
2010-Mar-19, 05:12 PM
It's hard enough to watch the Indians' players now. Now you're going to put skirts on them? :sick:

Now I'm picturing the third base coach on a close play at the bag frantically signaling and shouting "DON'T SLIDE! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, DON'T SLIDE!!!"

ETA: Oh man, worse yet, the way the TV cameras like to focus on the already uncomfortable hand signals from the catcher! :sick:

Sardonicone
2010-Mar-19, 05:26 PM
Now I'm picturing the third base coach on a close play at the bag frantically signaling and shouting "DON'T SLIDE! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, DON'T SLIDE!!!"

ETA: Oh man, worse yet, the way the TV cameras like to focus on the already uncomfortable hand signals from the catcher! :sick:

I'm sorry, but due to my primitive instincts still hard-wired into my DNA....I have to say this makes the prospect of watching Indians games more intriguing.


It has to be better than watching all the crotch-grabbing and spitting that goes on now.

Swift
2010-Mar-19, 05:48 PM
I'm sorry, but due to my primitive instincts still hard-wired into my DNA....I have to say this makes the prospect of watching Indians games more intriguing.


It has to be better than watching all the crotch-grabbing and spitting that goes on now.
Yeah, that's more my thinking. Reference any of numerous scenes from A League of Their Own.

NEOWatcher
2010-Mar-19, 06:06 PM
I guess it all depends on whether you're thinking:
(a) The previous St Eds team in Indians uniforms on the ball field, with the previous indians in skirts on the hockey field.:sick:
or
(b) each team retaining thier own uniform.:)

Fazor
2010-Mar-19, 06:28 PM
Yeah for whatever reason I forgot about the switching of the actual players themselves. Was picturing (or, trying rather hard not to picture) Travis Haffner running around in a skirt.

Swift
2010-Mar-19, 08:20 PM
Yeah for whatever reason I forgot about the switching of the actual players themselves. Was picturing (or, trying rather hard not to picture) Travis Haffner running around in a skirt.
OK, now I need a brain cleaning.

mike alexander
2010-Mar-19, 09:26 PM
After watching sports in Cleveland for a long time (I attended my first Indians game in 1957) I can only say that, averaged over time, such spectating prepares one well for life, if life is defined as being hit repeatedly over the head.

Sardonicone
2010-Mar-21, 03:12 PM
OK, now I need a brain cleaning.

I had just engaged in that activity last night while watching TV. I feel another 7% alcohol scrub is in order after his post.

J Riff
2010-Mar-22, 10:22 AM
Go Tribe, first of all. I've been watching since Colavito, too, though they have never been my No. 1 team. Yanks fan, all the way until Steinbrenner. Dropped em, can't stand em' now, the bums.
Unbelievably, I became a fan of the hated Dodgers after moving to LA. Hated them forever as an Expos/Cards fan.
I know the hitting is OK, but can't get head into baseball enough yet, hockey season heading into playoffs here, but I suspect you need 'one more quality starter' as usual, to contend again this year.
Just watched the Red Wings score two goals in five seconds, and one with .1 sec on the clock to beat the Canucks.
The Blue Jays... nevermind.

Fazor
2010-Mar-22, 01:26 PM
Dodgers fan, eh? Well you got my favorite Indian (assuming they've kept him around for this season?) in Casey Blake. I mentioned him above. I just love his attitude and the way he plays the game.

After he was traded late in the 2008 season, as LA was stocking up for the playoffs and Cleveland was out of the running and clearing house (again), the [Indians] GM said that after the season, he'd do everything he could to get Blake, who would be a free agent, back.

Either he lied, or LA liked him enough to give him an unbeatable offer.

J Riff
2010-Mar-22, 10:19 PM
I remember Casey coming over, I think they did make him a great offer. The Dodgers thought they had a good shot that year, and they did, but no cigar. Torre was a great move.
Watching Manny hit .390 his first partial season was really fun. Many times I saw him hit guys best pitches straight over centre field wall, a great hitter no matter what his attitude. I also watched him give up 2nd base on routine singles hit his way.
I refuse to go into full baseball mode until the puckchasing season is over. The Canucks have a shot this year, Detroit, Washington, Chicago, the Penguins... who will it be ?

Swift
2010-Mar-23, 08:38 PM
I suspect that Manny is one of, if not the best, pure hitter I have and will ever see.

Fazor
2010-Mar-23, 08:44 PM
I suspect that Manny is one of, if not the best, pure hitter I have and will ever see.

You know what though? He was one of the players that I wasn't that upset when they traded him. Would we be better with him? Maybe. The game I was at though, he looked like the kid in little league, standing out in right field kicking daisies. I was also tired of him strolling away from the base only to be easily thrown out by the pitcher because he wasn't paying attention.

kleindoofy
2010-Mar-23, 08:47 PM
I suspect that Manny is one of, if not the best, pure hitter I have and will ever see.
*cough, cough* Ted Williams *cough, cough*

Go Red Sox!

J Riff
2010-Mar-23, 09:52 PM
Manny won a batting crown in case we forget. I agree Swift, it's like watching Ruth or Williams, he takes your best pitch and destroys it. If the pitcher has great stuff he is smart enough to tap it to right field. I hope he has a great year, he seems to have cleaned up his fielding and baserunning a bit.
Would love to see the Tribe break through somehow. Don't know if this is possible this year, but miracles do happen.
No hockey fans in here, no Cleveland Barons supporters ? Tsk.

Swift
2010-Mar-24, 01:48 AM
You know what though? He was one of the players that I wasn't that upset when they traded him. Would we be better with him? Maybe. The game I was at though, he looked like the kid in little league, standing out in right field kicking daisies. I was also tired of him strolling away from the base only to be easily thrown out by the pitcher because he wasn't paying attention.
That's why I said hitter. How many times have we also watched him zone out on routine fly balls, or forget about running the bases. I don't disagree about trading him, as a total package, he was not worth the money he wanted.

@ kleindoofy - I don't disagree about Ted Williams, that's why I mentioned "that I've seen". His last at-bat was in 1960 - I was 2 years old. I saw Manny alive and in person and in my conscious memory.

J Riff
2010-Mar-25, 08:11 AM
I have distant memories of Ted Williams retiring. But it was all Yankees in those days, Mantle, Maris, Berra.
Ted is still the best pure hitter I reckon, but there's endless stats to consider, and adjustments for different eras.
I've watched the Mariners since the seventies, and Ken Griffy Jr. and Ichiro are two of the best. Being an Ms fan is kind of like being a Tribe fan though, neither of them has a World Series to show for it.

NEOWatcher
2010-May-14, 03:46 PM
Just thought I'd bump the thread because of last night.

(Cav's playoff loss for those not following)

Fazor
2010-May-14, 04:52 PM
Yep. And let me tell you; the past few weeks of sports talk radio has been pleasant -- who doesn't like to hear how great, and poor, and amazing, and pitiful, and warrior-like, the quitter LeBron is. (I'm not calling him a quitter, by the way, they were.) I despise the NBA already. I'm looking forward to the next few weeks of "LeBron's soo over-rated! Blah blah blah!" segments. *sigh* If only there were a decent radio station around here that played music, or intelligent talk, or *something*. Good thing my commute is typically 5 minutes.

mike alexander
2010-May-14, 06:03 PM
Rocky's Curse rises from the grave, I tell you. It's like the buzzards coming back to Hinckley. I believe this has gone from correlation to a Law of Nature.

(Mr. Colavito himself is alive and well in Pennsylvania, I hasten to add.)

The minute I heard that James had a sore elbow in the playoffs, I knew, knew, I tell you, that the Cosmic Carma Choke had appeared over the Soldiers and Sailors Monument and was casting chokerays from Lorain to Geneva-on-the-Lake. Maybe as far as Ashtabula and Sandusky.

Swift
2010-May-14, 06:09 PM
Just thought I'd bump the thread because of last night.

(Cav's playoff loss for those not following)
< bitter sarcasm mode>
Oh sure, and why don't you just give me a paper cut and rub lemon juice in it too, Mr. Thread Bumper.

I think (and kind of hope) I've given up. When it comes to sports we're doomed and there is nothing to do about it. I'll go to a game once in a while, but I've given up any hope to see any Cleveland team win a championship.

Hey! How about them nice beers at Great Lakes Brewing Company! Now they've actually won championships! (http://www.greatlakesbrewing.com/beerProfile.php?beer_id=00000001)

Gold Medal, 2008 World Beer Championships
Gold Medal, 2007 World Beer Championships
Gold Medal, 2006 World Beer Championships
Gold Medal, 2004 World Beer Championships
Silver Medal, 2003 World Beer Championships
Gold Medal, 2002 World Beer Championships
...

Swift
2010-May-14, 06:11 PM
The minute I heard that James had a sore elbow in the playoffs, I knew, knew, I tell you, that the Cosmic Carma Choke had appeared over the Soldiers and Sailors Monument and was casting chokerays from Lorain to Geneva-on-the-Lake. Maybe as far as Ashtabula and Sandusky.
To show how much I embrace that, I actually thought they'd win last night, so they could lose at home Game 7, so as to maximize our pain. I'm almost thankful for the mercy killing.

Fazor
2010-May-14, 06:28 PM
Hey! How about them nice beers at Great Lakes Brewing Company! Now they've actually won championships! (http://www.greatlakesbrewing.com/beerProfile.php?beer_id=00000001)
I love Great Lakes Brewing Company's beers! One of my favorite brands. Anytime I can get my alcohol local is a plus (We have a bottle of Riesling from a vineyard in Ohio waiting for dinner tonight). And as far as GLBC's beers go, I've loved every one I've tried; Edmund Fitzgerald and Commodore Perry's IPA are my favorites. Dortmunder Gold is great. Burning River is very good. Eliot Ness is my least-favorite of their year-long line, and I'd still take it before many other beers. Yum!

Back to sports, at least down here I still have my Columbus Crew; undefeated thus far (though a couple of draws). They had the best record in the MLS for the last two years, though last year they got eliminated in the first play-off round by the eventual champions. They won the championship the year before that. So that's a team to get behind.

And of course, here we have OSU Football, which is always in the upper ranks of the sport.

But Cleveland? It's a write-off.

mike alexander
2010-May-16, 03:56 PM
Fazor Wrote:


And of course, here we have OSU Football, which is always in the upper ranks of the sport.

Ah, Oregon State, glad you mentioned it.

Given the amount of money and support pumped into OSU Bootfall, it would be stunning if it wasn't in the upper ranks.
And I went there.

M.S. OSU 1978
PhD OSU 1983

Fazor
2010-May-17, 01:16 PM
Fazor Wrote:
Given the amount of money and support pumped into OSU Bootfall, it would be stunning if it wasn't in the upper ranks.
And I went there.

Right; I never said college football was fair, just that I can at least be happy to live near one of the big school with a big program. :)

Oh, and Crew won again this weekend, so still sporting a zero in the 'L' column. Too bad I was out of town and completely forgot to record the game. Well, maybe it's for the best; sounds like it was an ugly game (won 1-0 on a late PK).

NEOWatcher
2010-Jul-09, 02:11 PM
And another bump because of the Cavs (Lebron's decision to be specific)

Since it seems like national headline news, I won't make a particular link. Go ahead and pick your own.

I just want to make a few comments at this point.
In the local news last night:
- I actually noticed some "adults" actually weeping when the decision was announced. (get a life)
- Most were angry that Cleveland wasn't told first. Yeah right, like it wouldn't be national news in seconds anyway.
- And; of course, you get those who instantly turn from devoted fan to something evil, as if he personally betrayed them.

Fazor
2010-Jul-09, 02:24 PM
Blast. I was hoping this would go unmentioned here. :) I'm sick of hearing about it. I was hoping he'd stay, just because I'm a fan of Cleveland as a city, but the NBA is a joke anyway. Two things that made me scoff extra scoffingly were LeBron's, "To the city of Cleveland" break-up speech (sorry LeBron, you're not my boyfriend. The only part you left out was the "It's not you it's me" line. Ridiculously after-school special.)

And did you by chance see the open letter that majority owner Dan Gilbert (http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/news/gilbert_letter_100708.html) released shortly after the announcement?

NEOWatcher
2010-Jul-09, 02:32 PM
... I'm sick of hearing about it...
Same here, but it is fun to discuss how sick of it I am. And; make fun of the sickening stories.


... "To the city of Cleveland" break-up speech...
I didn't bother to watch past the word "Heat". But; I'm sure it was your normal choreographed plea for mercy.
I only watched it to see how the decision it was introduced before the media started thier own hoopla.

And the "I made the decision last night in my dream"? Yeah right. You got the teammates you wanted, and I'm sure that took time.
And the whole "it's not the money" thing that's been bantering around lately. Sure; Cleveland could offer him more of a salary, but spread over the years, and the lack of income tax in Florida, he's going to have more money in that offer.
(not that endorsements have anything to do with salary :whistle:)

Fazor
2010-Jul-09, 02:52 PM
I didn't watch it at all, but still got the pleasure of getting bits and pieces of it during halftime of the Chicago Fire v Real Salt Lake game. And during the game they were scrolling quotes from the 'special' across the bottom of the screen, but those went largely ignored by me.

Buttercup
2010-Jul-09, 02:58 PM
I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade (or thread)...but just a tiny rant here: I'm sick to death of sports stars and music stars being treated like royalty and is if they are SO truly important.

Meanwhile scientists, researchers, philosophers, etc., are greatly ignored.

Everyone loves the fact that electricity was harnassed and all the zillions of inventions as a result, are grateful for modern sterile surgical hospitals, vast supermarkets, etc.

But meanwhile it's all about LeBron and Lady Gaga.

Oh well, since when has humanity in general had its priorities straight huh?

NEOWatcher
2010-Jul-09, 03:24 PM
I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade (or thread)...
It ain't my parade, if you haven't noticed from some of my sarcasm.


Meanwhile scientists, researchers, philosophers, etc., are greatly ignored.
Even worse, some of these sports and celebrities are the "anti-science" types. Or at least Scientifically ignorant.
And they are constantly spouting thier un-informed decisions.

But then again, I wonder how many scientists are armchair quarterbacks. :whistle:

Click Ticker
2010-Jul-09, 04:13 PM
I don't begrudge LeBron his decision. He's entitled to play ball where ever he wants. In fact, being a Pistons fan, I'm rather pleased that he's no longer in Cleveland (central division rivals and all). That being said, he certainly could have handled the announcement in a better fashion. To not even talk to your owner since the season ended is rather pathetic. He did not even return the phone call of a prospective coach (Izzo) to say that he hasn't made up his mind yet.

Detroit experienced something similar in 2000 when Grant Hill left for Orlando. However, Grant kept an open line of communication with the Pistons ownership and helped work out a sign and trade that allowed him to make more money and allowed Detroit to get a couple decent players in return (Ben Wallace for one). Since that time, Detroit won the NBA title in 2004 and saw far more success than Hill or Orlando.

LeBron just left, and Cleveland's cupboard is pretty bare otherwise.

Gilbert's letter is childish. That's a fan reaction. I would expect more of ownership. It's a business and if LeBron didn't play up to expectations, how loyal would Gilbert be to him? He'd ship him out of town as fast as he could. You wouldn't hear anything about LeBron being from the Cleveland area and how the team should stick by him during these tough times because he's a local kid. A billionaire owner should send a message that shows other free agents what they can expect from him in the future. Who's going to want to play for a guy that reacts like that to a business decision?

Gilbert is from Detroit and the only reason he bought the Cavs is because of LeBron and Bill Davidson wasn't willing to sell the Pistons. Should've waited. Pistons are for sale now by the Davidson estate. Probably cheaper than the Cavs were and with no superstar's that can take $100MM plus of franchise value away with the stroke of a pen.

Fazor
2010-Jul-09, 04:16 PM
Probably cheaper than the Cavs were and with no superstar's that can take $100MM plus of franchise value away with the stroke of a pen.
That's the annoying thing about Gilbert's letter; he try's to act like he's identifying with the fans. He's a man of the people! Etc etc. But it's obvious that he's really only mad because his team just sank back into a mostly fan-less obscurity. It's not like the Cavs had much of a following before LeBron, and he knows they won't have much of a following now. He doesn't care about us fans. He's mad that his investment just tanked. Oh boo-hoo.

NEOWatcher
2010-Jul-09, 04:37 PM
Gilbert's letter is childish. That's a fan reaction. I would expect more of ownership.
And, if he just used the right font, it would probably have been recieved differently
Cavs owner's letter mocked for Comic Sans font (http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/web/07/09/comic.sans.cavs.james/index.html?hpt=T2)


TechCrunch's Siegler, ... said he will "await a LeBron response in Wingdings." :lol:

R.A.F.
2010-Jul-09, 04:43 PM
I'm sick to death of sports stars and music stars being treated like royalty and is if they are SO truly important.

I couldn't agree more. The absolute worse is when they are characterized as heroes. Real heroes risk their lives and even die to help/protect others, and they do so selflessly, without regard to any "reward".

edit to add "risk their lives".

Click Ticker
2010-Jul-09, 04:59 PM
I would argue that celebrities are important. They get a ton of money moving through the economy which in turn supports other endeavors. Sure we pay LeBron $20MM per year, but in turn he sells millions of dollars worth of clothing, tickets, advertising, etc. All of which is revenue to different companies which in turn pay their employees which in turn pay taxes, etc...

Also, many of them are true hero's. People look at their public image, but ignore the multi-million dollar charitable organizations many of them set up. The money they give back to their schools and communities. Steve Smith (former NBA player and MSU alumni) just had his 12th annual charitable golf outing and has given at least $3.1MM back to his school for academic scholarships and academic facilities.

Of course guys like Steve Smith don't get nearly the press that those who go broke after making that much do.

R.A.F.
2010-Jul-09, 05:22 PM
...many of them are true hero's. People look at their public image, but ignore the multi-million dollar charitable organizations many of them set up.

While laudable, there is nothing "heroic" involved in setting up a charitable foundation.

Click Ticker
2010-Jul-09, 05:38 PM
If you narrowly define "hero" as only including those who risk their lives, then you are correct. However for those who would otherwise lack a safe, clean place for their kids to play in their neighborhoods or would otherwise lack any resources to send their kids to college, people that fund charitable foundations are quite heroic.

NEOWatcher
2010-Jul-09, 06:17 PM
If you narrowly define "hero" as only including those who risk their lives, then you are correct.
I for one prefer it to stay that way, otherwise how do you distinguish the selfless physical risky acts of people from the selfless emotional acts?


.. people that fund charitable foundations are quite heroic.
Laudable, admirable, commendable, respected, esteemed, etc. But not heroic.
They are offering something that is in thier means to offer. Not offering thier existance.

Swift
2010-Jul-11, 03:26 AM
And, if he just used the right font, it would probably have been recieved differently
Cavs owner's letter mocked for Comic Sans font (http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/web/07/09/comic.sans.cavs.james/index.html?hpt=T2)

:lol:
Actually, I liked Gilbert's letter, I like Comic Sans font, and I think mocking the font someone picks, and publishing that as a story by a national news organization (CNN) is moronic.

SeanF
2010-Jul-11, 04:16 AM
And, if he just used the right font, it would probably have been recieved differently
Cavs owner's letter mocked for Comic Sans font (http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/web/07/09/comic.sans.cavs.james/index.html?hpt=T2)

:lol:

Normally a staple among six-year olds and grandmothers, Gilbert for some reason decided...
Poor font choice is not the only problem that crops up in public writings, Mr. Siegler.

grapes
2010-Jul-11, 11:27 PM
I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade (or thread)...but just a tiny rant here: I'm sick to death of sports stars and music stars being treated like royalty and is if they are SO truly important.

Meanwhile scientists, researchers, philosophers, etc., are greatly ignored.It's Einstein's fault, he was treated like royalty, hung out with movie stars, went to fabulous parties, etc. But would he wear socks and take a shoe endorsement? No-ooooooo, he poisoned the well for everyone else. Scientists would be on cereal boxes if only... :)

NEOWatcher
2010-Jul-15, 03:46 PM
(the Lebron decision...)
I don't know how many people watch the Espys, but I found this Steve Carell spoof on "the decision" (http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/07/15/espys-2010-steve-carell/?hpt=C2) hilarious.

Fazor
2010-Jul-15, 06:20 PM
I love Steve Carell (anyone named Steve is automatically funnier than everyone else :whistle:), and have been waiting all days for work to die down so I could watch that. 'Twas worth it! (I still hate the Espys, though. And Will Ferrel as the Vuvuzela inventor (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLKZ6nrzt34) was funny for about a half a second).

Swift
2010-Jul-15, 08:21 PM
As far as I'm concerned, Will Ferrel as anything is funny for about half a second. ;)

I only heard the highlights of Steve Carell's comments on the news this morning, but I thought them funny.

Click Ticker
2010-Jul-15, 08:48 PM
(anyone named Steve is automatically funnier than everyone else :whistle:)

Don't forget better looking and probably smells nicer too. Just sayin'...

NEOWatcher
2010-Jul-22, 12:17 PM
(the Lebron decision...)
I don't know how many people watch the Espys, but I found this Steve Carell spoof on "the decision" (http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/07/15/espys-2010-steve-carell/?hpt=C2) hilarious.
I know some of you (and me) are tired of (or don't care about) LeBron. But; I just wanted to point this out.
Chili's has a response to the Steve Carell spoof of the decision ( I previously mentioned).
Chili's responds to ESPYs 'The Decision' (http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/sports/basketball/cavaliers/chili%27s-responds-to-espy%27s-%22the-decision%22)
It's done ala the Gilbert letter.

I assume this was all set up beforehand, but it's amusing anyway.

Fazor
2010-Jul-22, 01:38 PM
That's good, but doesn't Steve call the Chilli's owner "Warren P Chilli" or something during "The Decision"? (I can't watch it again right now to verify). Shoulda signed the letter from that name.

NEOWatcher
2010-Oct-27, 05:39 PM
We had the curse of Rocky Colavito and more.
7 curses of Cleveland sports (http://www.retrojunk.com/details_articles/6306/)

So; now what do we do.
Radio morning show hires witch to curse Cleveland's former King (http://www.woio.com/Global/story.asp?S=13387322)

The witch, Samhain and assistant witch Lady Magick used bones, blood, and James' Miami Heat jersey to place a hex on the star live on the air. Rover asked all Cleveland-area listeners of the show, which is based at 100.7 WMMS-FM, to simultaneously focus all their negative energy towards James during the ceremony.
Ok; it's Halloween time, and they were probably just having fun. So; don't turn it into a news story. It's not news.
Next: Enough already. There's too many people caught up in entertainment celebs.
Finally (at least for this post):

"A broken leg, hand or other debilitating injury would be the best outcome," says Rover. "At the very least a sordid sexual misconduct accusation against LeBron would be alright I suppose."
I can see how some might think of that as funny, but I don't. I guess that's why I don't listen to that station.

Fazor
2010-Oct-27, 07:01 PM
No. Not funny. It's like I said when poking fun at a friend who is a Cowboys fan; I wanted to see Romo get hurt. He's one of my 'Sports Villians" simply because he's the QB of a team I don't like. Anyway, I wanted him to get *hurt*. I'm saddened that he got *injured*. There's a difference. I don't want to see any player have to miss an extended amount of play time because of an injury. LeBron included.

Besides; how much better would it be for Miami to have a mediocre or even bad season with all their stars healty? Isn't that more of a "ha-ha" than having one or more of their players get hurt?

Swift
2010-Oct-28, 02:59 AM
By the way, the Cavs had a very nice game against Boston tonight and beat them. My hopes for the season are modest, but it was a nice start.

Fazor
2010-Oct-28, 03:25 AM
Boston beat Miami, Cleveland beat Boston, therefore Cleveland beat Miami by proxy. That's it. Close down the season. Call it a wrap. LeBron got his comeuppance.

. . . I noticed we have to wait until Dec 2nd before Cleveland faces Miami. That will very likely be the only NBA game I even slightly care about all year. I do like the men's college tourney though.

mike alexander
2010-Oct-28, 07:15 PM
The real curse of Rocky Colavito is that no matter how long you have been away from Cleveland, you always have to look back.

Go Trail Blazers!

Feh.

NEOWatcher
2010-Dec-02, 05:35 PM
Aaaaaargh.... Enough of the Lebron stories already. All of our local stations are devoting close to half their stories on him.

Just to show how absurd this is getting:
LeBron arrives, gets look at new banner (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40468670)

The bus caught a red light at the intersection of Ontario Street and Huron Road, and had to sit through the duration of the light overlooking the Sherwin Williams building that once displayed LeBron’s Nike ad.

Their plane had a problem but they only spend one paragraph on that. But; they did make sure that they told us he was wearing tan pants.

I have a feeling somebody(or the crows) is going to do something really stupid tonight and we won't stop hearing about it for weeks.

Swift
2010-Dec-16, 04:34 AM
"Rapid Robert", Cleveland Indians Hall of Fame Pitcher Bob Feller, passed away at the age of 92 today. :sad:

Indians.com (http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20101208&content_id=16282782&vkey=news_cle&c_id=cle)

Born in Van Meter, Iowa, in 1918, Feller made his big league debut in 1936, four months before his 18th birthday and without professional experience. Before the birthday passed, he had won five games, lost three and produced starts of 15, 10, 17 and 10 strikeouts, five complete games, a 3.34 ERA and quite a reputation.

Before his career ended on Sept. 30, 1956, months before the inaugural Cy Young Award was presented, he had won 266 games, struck out 2,581 batters, won 62 percent of his decisions, pitched three no-hitters, 12 one-hitters and 44 shutouts and won a pitchers' Triple Crown. He led the league in victories six times and strikeouts seven times.
And that was with four years Navy service during the prime of his career during WWII.

I saw him multiple times over the years at Indians games, throwing out first-pitches and such, and got to met him once, at a book signing for his Little Blue Book of Baseball Wisdom, and got to shake his hand.

Most certainly, the passing of a legend.

Fazor
2010-Dec-16, 02:35 PM
I think he's one of the signatures on the baseball my dad has, full of past Indian's greats' autographs. He certainly talked about him a lot. I'm too young; I knew who he was, but not much about him.

The eerie thing? (Okay, not really eerie, just neat coincidence); I hadn't heard this news yet. When I clicked the thread and it jumped down to the post, as soon as I started reading it, the sports talk radio show (Mike and Mike) came back from break with "And hall of fame'er Bob Feller died last night at the age of 92." If I was of weaker mental constitution, I might have thought that my life finally had a commentary track.

NEOWatcher
2010-Dec-16, 02:54 PM
(Okay, not really eerie, just neat coincidence)
Actually it's an Erie thing.
Around here, it wouldn't be a coincidence. It seems like the majority of the local news and talk this morning.

I never really followed why Feller was so great since I'm just a casual (mostly local) sports fan. I just accepted he must have done enough for high praise. But; now that everyone is talking about his career, I'm learning the whys, and feel it's well deserved.

Swift
2010-Dec-16, 03:06 PM
I never really followed why Feller was so great since I'm just a casual (mostly local) sports fan. I just accepted he must have done enough for high praise. But; now that everyone is talking about his career, I'm learning the whys, and feel it's well deserved.
On top of his baseball stats, everything I've ever heard or read about him said he was a classy guy. Though he has been retired for over 50 years, he remained a fixture in the Indians organization and fandom, always happy to sign autographs, shake hands, and talk to fans about baseball. He'd pop into the TV or radio booth at games once in a while, and talk with the announcers. You could tell he still kept up on the game. He'd always be the guy who threw out the first pitch at the start of pre-season and regular season (and post-seasons, when we had those).

I think it was the 1997 World Series, so he would have been around 80 years old, he throw out the first pitch from the rubber on the pitching mound, gave it a wind-up and a kick, and threw it over the plate for a strike.

He also was asked on multiple occasions what was the most important thing he had done, and he always said it was the 4 years he spent in the Navy.

DonM435
2010-Dec-17, 04:41 PM
Actually it's an Erie thing.
Around here, it wouldn't be a coincidence. It seems like the majority of the local news and talk this morning.

I never really followed why Feller was so great since I'm just a casual (mostly local) sports fan. I just accepted he must have done enough for high praise. But; now that everyone is talking about his career, I'm learning the whys, and feel it's well deserved.

Greatest pitcher of the 1940s (despite missing a good bit of action), I'd say.

Donnie B.
2010-Dec-20, 02:34 PM
The sad part: he'd been quoted as hoping he'd live long enough to see the Indians win another World Series.

I was not aware of the fact that he started his major league career as a teenager -- just 17. Yet he was a dominating pitcher right from the start.

One report stated that until recently, he attended fantasy baseball camps regularly -- and delighted in striking out the young guys. This was in his 80s!

NEOWatcher
2011-Feb-10, 06:35 PM
Ok; the Caveliers now have tied the record of consecutive losses for ALL professional sports.

I wasn't going to mention that, but since I have another story to laugh at, I thought I'd throw that in.

It's Cleveland, it's winter, it's cold, it happens every year. We get enough stories saying that. But when I saw this as it's own story, I got to the "so what?" stage.

Cavs, Bieber fever bring people out into cold (http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/local_news/cavs%2C-bieber-fever-bring-people-out-into-cold)


Cavaliers fans made a fastbreak for the doors of The Q as temperatures approached the sub-zero mark.
Was that to get in or to get out after watching the game?


"It's terrible out here," said one Cavs fan.
Outside, or out on the court?

(not the game, but a movie preview)

And one teenage girl wore shorts with Bieber's name across the back. So why did she do it?
"Because I love Justin Bieber," she said
Yep, that's a teenager. My question is what the parents had to say.

Swift
2011-Feb-12, 03:50 AM
Our long dark nightmare is over... the Cavs finally remembered how to win a game.

Just in time for the start of the Indians' spring training and an entirely new long dark nightmare.

Fazor
2011-Feb-12, 01:56 PM
Our long dark nightmare is over... the Cavs finally remembered how to win a game.
Just in time for the start of the Indians' spring training and an entirely new long dark nightmare.

Yeah, just like Cleveland too. On the cusp of finally setting some kind of noteworthy record and they screw that up too. :-P From what they've been saying on the radio, the Indian's season looks to be pretty bleak too. I tend to believe that, when the best news they had all year was that they finally managed to resign Cabrera. Yippidee-doo . . .

Fazor
2011-Jul-25, 07:46 PM
The Indians' recent woes combined with the fortunate juxtaposition of these two headlines today inspired me to make my own motivational poster. Meh.

15276

redshifter
2011-Jul-25, 07:52 PM
Seattle Mariners set a franchise record; losing their 15th straight game...http://www.seattlepi.com/sports/article/Mariners-lose-15th-straight-12-8-to-Red-Sox-1572500.php

At least football is getting close...

Fazor
2011-Jul-25, 08:16 PM
Seattle Mariners set a franchise record; losing their 15th straight game...http://www.seattlepi.com/sports/article/Mariners-lose-15th-straight-12-8-to-Red-Sox-1572500.php
At least football is getting close...

Yeah, I saw that. That's what they get for hiring Wedge though -- an Indians reject.

Swift
2011-Jul-25, 09:00 PM
The Indians' recent woes combined with the fortunate juxtaposition of these two headlines today inspired me to make my own motivational poster. Meh.

15276
<snort> Unfortunately, too true. The Indians sure look like they are sinking fast. Personally, I'm coming to the conclusion that they should not go shopping for a trading deadline bat, that this is not "the year", and they shouldn't trade a lot of good prospects to rent a player. There are just too many gaps to fix with a trade or two.

Fazor
2011-Jul-25, 09:35 PM
I'm hoping they're thinking the same thing -- they've been pretty quiet about it, so it doesn't appear like they're seriously shopping. That said, they're the kind of club that will play dumb, then right at the deadline happily announce that they gave their three top prospects for someone like Adam Dunn. Ugh.

DonM435
2011-Jul-26, 01:57 AM
Cleveland's Greatest Sports Moment

http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/articles/cleveland-pathetically-celebrates-greatest-sports,20819/#

Swift
2011-Jul-26, 02:04 AM
Cleveland's Greatest Sports Moment

http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/articles/cleveland-pathetically-celebrates-greatest-sports,20819/#
Who knew the Onion occasionally reported true stories.

Fazor
2011-Jul-26, 01:31 PM
Cleveland's Greatest Sports Moment

http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/articles/cleveland-pathetically-celebrates-greatest-sports,20819/#

Lol.

In other news, Kipnis picked a hell-of-a-time to get his first big-league hit last night. After Pronk tied the game in the bottom of the ninth, then the Indians loaded the bases, and with two outs, a rocket single into right field for the walk-off win. I love games like that! That's why you can never turn an Indians game off before the end.

NEOWatcher
2011-Aug-03, 04:22 PM
Ok; no more fooling around. Cleveland is getting tough...

We'll get a win even if we have to resort to assault with a batted weapon...

Woman's Knee Key Play In Sox Loss (http://www.thebostonchannel.com/r/28740212/detail.html)


Cabrera said when he saw “it hit someone in the stands,” he thought he was deserving of more than a single.


EDIT: Looks like Fazor beat me to it elsewhere (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php/64930-It-s-not-my-fault?p=1921097#post1921097).

Fazor
2011-Aug-03, 04:39 PM
I already put that in the "Not My Fault" thread (based on the woman's comments), but I won't gloat. Being ToFazored doesn't have the same ring to it anyway.

Were you watching the game? I was. I didn't catch that it was a home run on the live play, but the second they showed the replay you could tell it was off the woman. I thought it caught her chair's armrest at first, mostly based off of how hard it ricochet back into the field of play. You could see the pained look on her face, but it could have also been an "holy crap that almost hit me" look.

I love Rick Manning and crew, but they kept saying "Oh, yeah. That's clearly off the wall." And then after they finally got a second angle you could see it was off the fan.

I'd love to see 'Dibble keep it up. But, in typical Cleveland fashion, they come back from an exciting win only to lose a disappointingly winnable game.

NEOWatcher
2011-Aug-03, 04:46 PM
Being ToFazored doesn't have the same ring to it anyway.
ToFazored actually sounds like it would hurt.
(I guess we crisscrossed with my edit too.)
I didn't catch it either. My baseball watching is usually only when I'm in a social situation.

Fazor
2011-Aug-03, 05:02 PM
My baseball watching is usually only when I'm in a social situation.

I mostly watch baseball at home when I'm alone. Isn't that a sign of being a Basebaholic? :( I'll seek treatment as soon as I admit I have a problem (never.)

Swift
2011-Aug-03, 05:21 PM
I mostly watch baseball at home when I'm alone. Isn't that a sign of being a Basebaholic? :( I'll seek treatment as soon as I admit I have a problem (never.)
I believe they have a patch (http://i.ebayimg.com/22/!CC5oU+QEWk~$(KGrHqN,!k0Ez+zdydSjBNMydZjstw~~_35.J PG) you can use now to help you kick the habit.

redshifter
2011-Aug-03, 05:32 PM
I mostly watch baseball at home when I'm alone. Isn't that a sign of being a Basebaholic? :( I'll seek treatment as soon as I admit I have a problem (never.)

Hmmm...I may have a problem....I usually watch college football at home alone. Sometimes for an entire Saturday during the football season. Ah well...

NEOWatcher
2011-Aug-03, 05:59 PM
I believe they have a patch (http://i.ebayimg.com/22/!CC5oU+QEWk~$(KGrHqN,!k0Ez+zdydSjBNMydZjstw~~_35.J PG) you can use now to help you kick the habit.
Of course you would show the one with the highest dosage...

Fazor
2011-Aug-26, 02:04 PM
So Thome is officially back with the Tribe. I might have to duck out of family dinner night early to race back to civilization where I can watch or at least listen to it. Actually, while we never installed and antenna rig for my dad's radio, he can stream the game over his new iPhone. While the iPhone surprises me with very decent loudspeaker sound, I have a set of plug-in speakers that'll make it a little easier to hear.

One place yesterday reported ChiSox had nabbed him, while another said the deal with Cleveland was all but signed. I'm glad it was the later!

NEOWatcher
2011-Aug-26, 03:06 PM
I just hope he's got enough left to make a difference.
I'd hate to think he's using us as waypoint on his way to being put out to pasture.

Fazor
2011-Aug-26, 03:41 PM
I just hope he's got enough left to make a difference.
I'd hate to think he's using us as waypoint on his way to being put out to pasture.

Can it be any worse than having Haffner?

Swift
2011-Aug-26, 04:15 PM
I just hope he's got enough left to make a difference.
I'd hate to think he's using us as waypoint on his way to being put out to pasture.
Actually, I doubt he is enough to make the difference. To be honest, the Indians are approaching the "we'll need a miracle" point to make the post-season, and I don't think Thome is going to supply it. I'm not saying it is impossible; I'm just not going to bet that way. ;)

As Fazor says, he is at least as good as Hafner has been this season, even when healthy, and Hafner is done for the year. It also shows the fans that the Front Office is at least still trying to make it happen.

My guess is the boast in ticket sales, particularly if Thome is welcomed back and does well, will more than make up for the little bit of salary they'll have to pay out.

That said, I'm glad the Tribe made the deal. It will be very nice to see Thome again. If he retires at the end of the season (I don't know what his plans are) it means he will end his career with them. I think that would be great for both the Indians and him. Odds are he will be the next Indian in the Hall of Fame.

My biggest concern is the crowd reaction. When he left, there were a lot of bitter feelings (I had them too). Over the years since, I think he's gotten more boos than cheers when he has returned. But I've put that all behind me, and I'd like to see him get a warm welcome.

Fazor
2011-Aug-26, 04:34 PM
I think he'll retire at the end of the year. From what I understand, he's said that he was really just sticking around for that #600. He had even joked that if he hit it in Cleveland, he'd walk the bases, pick up his kids, and walk off right then and there. I don't see him sticking around, but then again, I don't know him either. He's certainly past his prime, but he's at least as good a DH as we have. Haffner has always been streaky and injury prone. Don't get me wrong; I still cheer for Pronk. But Thome wins by virtue of being part of the dream team during my junior high and high school years.

AGN Fuel
2011-Sep-01, 07:15 AM
Cleveland sports serves at least one Community Service. (http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/articles/kids-in-scaredstraight-program-visit-horrifying-cl,19156/?utm_source=morenews)

NEOWatcher
2011-Dec-07, 06:45 PM
First; I'd like to express my condolences to any Cleveland fans for the outcome of tomorrow's game.



Second; We need something positive in any sports. I'm getting tired of old stories being re-hashed.
Lebron James says he's no longer a "jerk" (http://www.woio.com/story/16204624/lebron-james-says-hes-no-longer-a-jerk)

I just wish they would explain this statement:

And what's funny is the schedule was announced just 24 hours after Lebron announced he's no longer the villain of Cleveland.
Why would that be funny? It's not even a coincidence. Everyone's beginning thier posturing for the season.

Swift
2011-Dec-07, 06:55 PM
I've already written off the Browns for the season, let alone tomorrow's game. And the Cavs and the NBA... I don't really care. I'm so glad that Lebron no longer thinks he's a jerk; that means at least one person has that opinion.

Go Indians!

NEOWatcher
2011-Dec-07, 07:05 PM
I've already written off the Browns for the season...
I don't think I know anyone who hasn't.
But; that doesn't keep me from watching to see if there's that glimmer of hope for "next year".
Besides, by watching, I can say "hey; I saw that!" if they ever do win a game*.

*legitimately. Not by luck.

Swift
2011-Dec-07, 07:16 PM
"Rapid Robert", Cleveland Indians Hall of Fame Pitcher Bob Feller, passed away at the age of 92 today. :sad:
The revival of this thread reminded me of a Bob Feller thing that happened recently.

A couple of weeks ago I was in a local jewelry store, buying something for my wife (birthday present). As I came in the store, one of the owners was talking with this older woman. She left a minute or so later. The owner saw the Indians jacket I happened to be wearing and asked me if I happened to know who that lady was. I said I didn't and he said that it was Mrs. Bob Feller, and she was a regular customer. He figured, from the jacket, that I was a fan and would be interested (I was). A minor, near-miss, "I'm not worthy" moment.

Fazor
2011-Dec-07, 09:06 PM
Season is written off as soon as the schedule is released each year. That's nothing new. Still, I quit watching.

. . . because my da...rn Central Ohio carrier never shows them. It's happened every year for the last five or so; Browns used to take precedence over Bengals games, but hasn't been that way in a long time. So if they're playing at the same time, I can't get the game.

Last week, they *weren't* playing at the same time and the local carrier still chose to air a game for two teams that have no fanbase here, becase they figure that'll still draw more views than the Browns. Which surprised me, since it was a Browns/Ravens game. But whatever. I was busy Sunday anyway so wouldn't have caught it.

Tomorrow's game will be on the NFL network, right? Think all Thur games are. So I won't see that either. On average anymore, I think I have the ability to see about 5 of the 16 games each season.

Of course, I could get that NFL Sunday ticket, but I don't even remotely care about any sport enough to pay $500 a year to watch it on tv.

NEOWatcher
2011-Dec-07, 09:18 PM
Last week, they *weren't* playing at the same time ... it was a Browns/Ravens game.
They weren't *playing* at the same time either. The Ravens played at air time. I don't know when the Browns played, but I saw them on the field at that time.

Fazor
2011-Dec-08, 04:35 AM
They weren't *playing* at the same time either. The Ravens played at air time. I don't know when the Browns played, but I saw them on the field at that time.

:) Wasn't it 24 to 10? That's actually a lot better than I would have guessed. The Facebook fan page (had) posted "What do you think the Browns need to beat the Ravens this week?" I replied "Food poisoning at the Ravens' team breakfast meeting."

As for the game tomorrow, I'm not sure there's anything that could help them.

NEOWatcher
2011-Dec-08, 01:47 PM
Wasn't it 24 to 10? That's actually a lot better than I would have guessed.
It was the squirrel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FK8bKSjp6_g&feature=related). But; Colt didn't throw to him even though he was open in the endzone. He was the only Clevelander to make it all the way down the field without going out of bounds.


As for the game tomorrow, I'm not sure there's anything that could help them.
More Squirrels.

Editorial cartoon in today's paper.
Brows vs. Steelers Viewer Advisory (http://www.cleveland.com/darcy/index.ssf/2011/12/browns_vs_steelers_viewer_advi.html)

Fazor
2012-Apr-25, 02:31 PM
Well, I need to mark the calendar. The Indians are officially at the top of their division, with the second best winning percentage in the American league. Looks like they're going to try for another first-half run before a second-half topple. I doubt they'll make it to the All Star break like they did last year though. They may have the standings, but the "eye test" says they're not nearly as good as their record. And, of course, they're only 15 games in.

NEOWatcher
2012-Apr-25, 02:35 PM
Highlighting the important (more common) parts:

Well, I need to mark the calendar. The Indians are officially at the top of their division, with the second best winning percentage in the American league. Looks like they're going to try for another first-half run before a second-half topple. I doubt they'll make it to the All Star break like they did last year though. They may have the standings, but the "eye test" says they're not nearly as good as their record. And, of course, they're only 15 games in.

Swift
2012-Apr-25, 02:55 PM
Well, I need to mark the calendar. The Indians are officially at the top of their division, with the second best winning percentage in the American league. Looks like they're going to try for another first-half run before a second-half topple. I doubt they'll make it to the All Star break like they did last year though. They may have the standings, but the "eye test" says they're not nearly as good as their record. And, of course, they're only 15 games in.
I suspect you are correct, but I'm content to wait and see. I'm just waiting for a warm, weekend home-game that I don't have something else going on to get to a game.

Its interesting the changes from last year. The hitting seems better; not even particularly for average, but guys are being more patient at the plate, drawing more walks, striking out less, doing better situational hitting (except last night). The starting pitching is overall about the same: so far Lowe looks solid, Jimenez is looking much better than last year, but Masterson has been shakey. The surprise has been the bullpen, which has been weaker than last year, though with basically the same staff. Tony Sipp does seem to be turning around, but Rafael Perez has been terrible.

At least the Royals and Twins should keep the Indians out of last place.

On a completely different note, I am more than completely tired of the speculation about Browns' draft picks; it seems like it has been talked about for months. And does anyone really think it will make a darn bit of difference.

Fazor
2012-Apr-25, 03:38 PM
. . . doing better situational hitting (except last night) . . .
That's the "eye test" part. I'd love to simply say that the are being "more patient," except I grow hoarse from screaming at the tv for all the fat, middle-of-the-plate stuff they're letting sail right by. I don't think it's patience, I think they're afraid to swing.

And yeah, last night there were two innings where the bases were loaded with nobody out, and at least one more inning where they loaded the bases with only one out. With the 8 out's worth of loaded bases, they managed to bring in a whopping zero runs against struggling KC pitchers. Scarey.


On a completely different note, I am more than completely tired of the speculation about Browns' draft picks; it seems like it has been talked about for months. And does anyone really think it will make a darn bit of difference.

Yeah. I couldn't care less. Though I made the statement yesterday that if they draft a QB with their first pick, I might finally give up being a fan.

Trebuchet
2012-Apr-25, 06:47 PM
Would it help if the Indians drafted a QB instead?

Fazor
2012-Apr-25, 06:57 PM
Would it help if the Indians drafted a QB instead?

. . . probably couldn't hurt.

Swift
2012-Apr-25, 07:19 PM
Actually, I suspect they have. There are a lot of guys in baseball who also played other sports, often football. One of the Royals they were talking about last night was a star high school football player. IIRC, Pronk (Travis Hafner) for the Indians played football, though I don't think it was QB.

mike alexander
2012-Apr-25, 07:46 PM
I think it was either Jimmy Dudley or Hal Lebovitz who coined the famous CI phrase, "June swoon."

Fazor
2012-Apr-27, 01:22 PM
Yeah. I couldn't care less. Though I made the statement yesterday that if they draft a QB with their first pick, I might finally give up being a fan.

. . . not first pick, but still, *sigh*.

Those NY Giants are kinda fun to watch. Maybe I'll be a Giants fan now. Their games make it to broadcast here more often than Cleveland's do too (50% of the Cleveland games don't get shown here because they're on the same network and time as Cincinnati. For years, Cleveland would take that spot. Last few, Cinci gets the air time instead.

NEOWatcher
2012-Apr-30, 05:17 PM
I saw this one in the news today and immediately thought "SLOW NEWS DAY?".
Wow; a reporter actually noticed someone from our area wrote to Dear Abby, and reported details about the column. :rolleyes: Woop-de-do, I could have read that myself.

But; with Cleveland sports, it might actually be a sign of a larger problem.

Cleveland father asks 'Dear Abby' for advice about son’s anger over sports team losses (http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/local_news/cleveland_metro/cleveland-father-asks-dear-abby-for-advice-about-sons-anger-over-sports-team-losses)

The father said his 8-year-old son loves sports, but has trouble accepting a loss, and takes his frustrations out by beating their dog, Patches. The dad said he didn’t want to get rid of the dog.
Ok; so the dog won't get beaten, that's not going to do anything about the problem though. (unless he meant Dawgs)

Swift
2012-Apr-30, 05:25 PM
Yeah, slow news day. That ain't about sports, it is about a kid with some serious problems and a dad too stupid to get him the help he needs immediately.

mike alexander
2012-Apr-30, 11:48 PM
Indians are 11-9?

I'm riding Birdie's Rocket!

NEOWatcher
2012-Aug-17, 04:50 PM
One of these days, one of our teams might do something newsworthy. I am really getting tired of the LeBron James stories getting dug up after all this time.

Bin Laden aid: LeBron is 'very bad man' (http://www.nbcnews.com/id/48703683/ns/local_news-cleveland_oh/)

In a declassified letter to the Washington Times, Muhammad Rahim [Osama bin Laden's translator] wrote, “Lebron James is a very bad man. He should apologize to the city of Cleveland.”

Fazor
2012-Aug-17, 10:05 PM
But Weedon (Wheedon? I dunno) went 12-20 yesterday! People are excited! Yeah!!!

... have we Cleveland fans really gotten to the point where 60% completion in a pre-season game against 2nd and 3rd string defense is exciting? I'm depressed.

Swift
2012-Aug-18, 03:00 AM
... have we Cleveland fans really gotten to the point where 60% completion in a pre-season game against 2nd and 3rd string defense is exciting?
Do you really have to ask? (http://www.newsrealblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Grasping-at-Straws.jpg) ;)

vonmazur
2012-Aug-18, 05:01 AM
I guess this means that the Indians will not be playing the Braves in the World Series this year....Too bad, I like it when the "Native American" Teams play in the series....Just once I'd like to see the Indians v. Braves in this Century....( My Matrilinear line has the Mashentucket Pequots, and I feel obligated to root for the "Home Teams"!)

I am tired of the Yankees and their superiority thru $$$$...The smaller market teams deserve a chance too....

Dale

NEOWatcher
2012-Aug-20, 06:37 PM
I guess this means that the Indians will not be playing the Braves in the World Series this year....
The qualifiers don't even matter. Emotionally, it's "The Indians are not playing this year" period.

NEOWatcher
2012-Sep-06, 04:54 PM
I think we already mentioned the persistant and lingering hatred of a sports figure (LBJ) in Cleveland.
Now; we dredge up another.
The Browns owner who moved them out of town 17 years ago died... It's amazing the hatred that is still going around, including mentions in the news about how so many people are glad he died.

The "new" Browns are stuck in a pickle because of this hatred. They'll look bad honoring him because of the hatred, and they will look bad not honoring him because he had a long NFL history.
So; they are stuck with making a short and impersonal statement... Simply:
"The Cleveland Browns would like to extend their deepest condolences to the entire Modell family."

Gee, let it go already people...

Fazor
2012-Sep-06, 05:15 PM
Gee, let it go already people...

I'd say I'm never happy when someone dies, but that's only mostly true. There's been a few exceptions, but they're not important and political anyway. When I heard the news about 'ol Art, I couldn't be *happy* he died.

But I also reflexively scoffed when they said something about a tribute for him. Yes, it's old history. But I don't like him for what he did. Dieing won't change that opinion.

NEOWatcher
2012-Sep-06, 05:30 PM
But I also reflexively scoffed when they said something about a tribute for him. Yes, it's old history. But I don't like him for what he did. Dieing won't change that opinion.
Reflexive is one thing, but what's in the news about the volume of "I'm glad he's dead" is another.
I don't like him for what he did either. Not so much about him moving the team, but outright lied to us about "never going to move the team. But what happened to respect?
I guess it's the old "if you have nothing good to say, then don't say anything"

Fazor
2012-Sep-06, 05:48 PM
Reflexive is one thing, but what's in the news about the volume of "I'm glad he's dead" is another.


I agree. There's a videogame journalist who was recently diagnosed with (very early stage, fairly treatable) cancer recently, and there's been a lot of people who don't agree with his views posting things like, "Good! He deserves to die. I hope it's long and painful. Etc etc."

It's disgraceful, but sadly common.

otakenji
2012-Sep-07, 08:54 AM
Having grown up in Cleveland and after returning as a visiting adult in 2007 I came to realize why Cleveland is so in love with their sports teams. There is nothing else there to be proud of...

DonM435
2012-Sep-09, 02:28 PM
Sez The Onion with their usual finesse "it is not yet too early to be pessimistic about the Cleveland Browns this season."

17509

But they seem to have overlooked the obvious: if you permit a guy on the other team to hang out in your huddle, forget about running any surprise plays!














(I know, I know: In scrimmage drills, they often wear other colors and switch sides frequently.)

Trebuchet
2012-Sep-09, 04:15 PM
(I know, I know: In scrimmage drills, they often wear other colors and switch sides frequently.)

In this case, it's more a matter of "The guy in red is OUR quarterback! Don't try to kill him like you would the opposition!"

Solfe
2012-Sep-09, 05:46 PM
I would feel much better about the Bill's first game if we were not going up against Ryan Fitzpatrick. That guy is a killer...

Fazor
2012-Sep-10, 01:11 AM
Well, those top two draft picks really shined in the season opener. I wonder who will be our new "franchise quarterback" next year?

Swift
2012-Sep-10, 04:10 AM
Having grown up in Cleveland and after returning as a visiting adult in 2007 I came to realize why Cleveland is so in love with their sports teams. There is nothing else there to be proud of...
I didn't see a smilie so I assume you were not joking, but I completely disagree. If anything, we should forget about our terrible teams and celebrate all the great things we have.

primummobile
2012-Sep-10, 01:07 PM
Well, those top two draft picks really shined in the season opener. I wonder who will be our new "franchise quarterback" next year?

I'm not giving up on Richardson, especially since yesterday was the first time he has ever played in the NFL.

I'm one of the people who actually liked Colt McCoy as a quarterback. I think he got a raw deal in all of this. There was never really a competition in the preseason for the job, and I don't really know what people expected McCoy to do the last few years. He never had any time to throw the ball and even if he did have time, he didn't have any receivers other than Cribbs (who spends most of his time on the bench under Pat Schurmer) who could catch the ball. Without receivers who can catch the ball, the other team can afford to play man coverage on the receivers and dedicate their linebackers to choking up any holes for runners. The Browns didn't need a quarterback with a stronger arm and a harder throw. They need people who can catch, a good offensive line, (I do think we are on the right track with the offensive line) and a quarterback who can direct sustained drives. I'll take a consistent 5-7 yard passer over a quarterback who can throw a bullet 40 yards any day.

Fazor
2012-Sep-10, 01:19 PM
I love Colt McCoy, and nothing against Weedon, I just don't see how you could ever say that he's *better* than McCoy. At best, they're equals. So, why yank McCoy after never really giving him a chance then treat a 4th-round-pick at best QB like the new franchise savior? It's a move that never made any sense, and yesterday's game shows why.

Will he get better than that? He should. In fairness, it was his first game too. But does anyone honestly see *that* evolving into a Super Bowl caliber QB?

primummobile
2012-Sep-10, 01:50 PM
Agreed. The way to have a successful offense in the NFL is to find a quarterback and then build your offense around him. You don't ask a quarterback to fit into your offense. Last year was so frustrating to watch because McCoy was chased out of the pocket on nearly every down. The fact that he didn't get sacked a million times is just amazing to me.

The whole problem with the Browns is that they are too short-sighted. We have been "rebuilding" for about twelve years now, which is longer than the careers of most NFL players. I understand wanting to have a good season to keep fan support. But the Browns aren't hurting for fans, and I know that win or lose I still love them. But they need to give people some time to develop before changing everything around. San Francisco didn't give up on Alex Smith, although I'm sure there was plenty of screaming coming from the fans and the media. But look at how that decision has worked out for them.

Fazor
2012-Sep-10, 02:18 PM
Replacing a slightly above average QB with another slightly above average QB has limited potential to help your offense, and then only if the new QB's style fits better within the existing structure around him*.

Taking a slightly above average QB and giving him a strong O-Line has won the Giants two Super Bowls. I mean, I love Eli. I really do. But he's not the greatest QB in the league, by far.

*Which might as well be nil for Cleveland, since they don't have any "structure" to speak of.

Jim
2012-Sep-10, 04:47 PM
Colt's former coach, Mack Brown, says he learned something watching last year's BCS championship. He's going to try it this year, and it's a philosophy that NFL teams [cough]Cleveland[cough] could try, too.

Rather than build an offense around a single, superstar, francishe player, build a team around a lot of above average talent. The other team won't be able to stop everyone every time. And, if you lose one player, the rest can pick up the slack easier 'cause the loss is less.

(Actually, Mack had this when Colt was there. The team had several solid running backs and receivers. All Colt had to do was find the ones who were hot that game and use them. He was good at that.)

Jim
2012-Sep-10, 04:57 PM
I'm not sure this belongs here, but a thread of its own seems wasteful, and there is that post about Art Modell who moved the original Browns, so...

History: A few years ago, the owner of the Houston Oilers - who had promised that he would never move the team - moved the team when he couldn't get a new stadium.

A few years later, Houston got a brand new team, the Texans.

No one told The Gap.

Last week they introduced a new sports tee, showing the Houston Texans name and logo and underneath them "AFC Champions 1961."

That was the Oilers.

And it was AFL, not AFC.

And it was 1961 and 1962.

By the time The Gap realized their mistake, the shirts had all sold out at every Houston outlet.

Collectors' items, every one.

(Of course, this could have been a brilliant marketing ploy.)

NEOWatcher
2012-Sep-10, 07:05 PM
Well, those top two draft picks really shined in the season opener. I wonder who will be our new "franchise quarterback" next year?
Do you really think it's going to take that long?

Can someone explain to me how Weeden got sacked by the American flag? I just caught the part when he was still trying to get "out of the pocket" from that.

Fazor
2012-Sep-10, 07:44 PM
Can someone explain to me how Weeden got sacked by the American flag? I just caught the part when he was still trying to get "out of the pocket" from that.

What? I'm not sure what you're referring to there.

I have nothing against Weedon personally. He's a perfectly cromulent QB. Just as perfectly cromulent as McCoy is. Which makes it about the dumbest draft pick I've ever seen in my life. I hate to root for the guy to fail, but the silver lining if he does is that it will serve to only highlight what a stupid draft pick it was. I mean, seriously. What were they thinking?

NEOWatcher
2012-Sep-10, 08:22 PM
What? I'm not sure what you're referring to there.
Unfortunately, the copyright people alread pulled the youtubes of it, but I did find it in the LA times.

Browns QB Brandon Weeden gets caught under American flag (http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-brandon-weeden-flag-20120910,0,7199860.story?track=rss)

Fazor
2012-Sep-10, 08:37 PM
Unfortunately, the copyright people alread pulled the youtubes of it, but I did find it in the LA times.

Browns QB Brandon Weeden gets caught under American flag (http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-brandon-weeden-flag-20120910,0,7199860.story?track=rss)

That is awesome! The question) What's more embarrassing; being sacked by the unfurling of the American flag, or ending the game with a 5.6 passer rating?

DonM435
2012-Sep-11, 12:58 PM
Wow! Even ol' Ed Hochuli would have trouble throwing that flag on a penalty.

Donnie B.
2012-Sep-11, 09:13 PM
And if he did, it would touch the ground, so it would have to be burned. Think of the pollution!

HenrikOlsen
2012-Sep-13, 04:23 PM
I agree. There's a videogame journalist who was recently diagnosed with (very early stage, fairly treatable) cancer recently, and there's been a lot of people who don't agree with his views posting things like, "Good! He deserves to die. I hope it's long and painful. Etc etc."

It's disgraceful, but sadly common.
More common with gamers I suspect, it seems like there's quite a large percentage of them who don't understand there are other people involved.

Fazor
2012-Sep-13, 05:47 PM
More common with gamers I suspect, it seems like there's quite a large percentage of them who don't understand there are other people involved.

I disagree. I see just as much hate-fueled bile in the average online newspaper article's comments section. It's something I noticed years ago with drivers - the relative anonymity afforded by being walled off in one's own vehicle seems to lead to people being nastier towards each other than they would be in person. The internet is the ultimate windshield -- with the ability to act a fool without ever risking face, people just become . . . horrible.

Not always, obviously. I think just about everyone here on BAUT come across as great people. But there's a community built here that isn't part of an online article comment's section, and trolls don't last more than a few posts before BAUT steps in and corrects the problem.

primummobile
2012-Sep-13, 08:34 PM
I disagree. I see just as much hate-fueled bile in the average online newspaper article's comments section. It's something I noticed years ago with drivers - the relative anonymity afforded by being walled off in one's own vehicle seems to lead to people being nastier towards each other than they would be in person. The internet is the ultimate windshield -- with the ability to act a fool without ever risking face, people just become . . . horrible.

Not always, obviously. I think just about everyone here on BAUT come across as great people. But there's a community built here that isn't part of an online article comment's section, and trolls don't last more than a few posts before BAUT steps in and corrects the problem.

I agree with that. From what I've observed, the problem gets progressively more prevalent as the average age of the participants goes down. I don't even click on youtube links for anything because even the comments on straight science videos are completely over the top and offensive.

Fazor
2012-Sep-16, 07:38 PM
*sigh*

primummobile
2012-Oct-10, 09:20 PM
I was a little amazed by Pat Shurmur's arrogant and combative attitude at the post-game press conference after the loss to New York. From someone who has his salary paid by the fans and who has lost 11 games in a row I would expect a little more humility. I understand that he is frustrated, but maybe he should try a different game plan instead of the same thing week after week. I think he will be gone by week ten.

Fazor
2012-Oct-10, 09:58 PM
[...] I think he will be gone by week ten.

He'll be lucky to make week ten. I think he knows that, hence his attitude. Though I think the Browns would do better to stick it out to the end of the year when there will hopefully be more prospects to replace him. Unless they can him and let Holmgren coach, which wouldn't be any better.

With an average life expectancy of three-quarters of a season, I think it'll be difficult to attract a great coach either way. No one good enough to fix the problem is stupid enough to try to fix the problem.

blueshift
2012-Oct-15, 01:10 AM
There are a lot of hapless sports towns and Cleveland is no doubt one of them with the Browns right at the top of the list. Other cities have their own hapless stories. But there is a way out in a sense. Here in Chicago we get a mental reprieve of sorts. One team does not give its fans any stress whatsoever.

Northwestern football.

Once a decade one of them will actually make it to the NFL. Everybody knows that they basically stink. They have no business beating any of the teams that they do beat. Many high school teams in Illinois could likely beat them up and only the players' parents hold any fears of the outcomes of the games because their sons might wind up in the hospital.

But they play way over their heads and give more than what is expected from them, bringing a lot of smiles and more stress-free times then a lot of professional teams do to their fans.

NEOWatcher
2013-Sep-27, 05:12 PM
From CQ to GQ...
GQ confirms this thread.
Magazine Calls Cleveland Teams ‘Worst of All Time’ (http://fox8.com/2013/09/26/magazine-calls-cleveland-teams-worst-of-all-time/)

GQ contributing writer Rob Tannenbaum says Cleveland fans have endured a combined 152 seasons of futility

Swift
2013-Sep-27, 06:27 PM
Yeah, I saw it in the newspaper. The newspaper reporter were trying to prove it wrong, but I think it exactly correct.

I do have to say that no matter how the rest of the season goes, the Indians have been a pleasant surprise. I for one thought that would struggle to even win 81 games this season, and now they have a legit shot at a playoff spot. My expectations are modest, but even if they got no further than being one of the two wildcards (and then losing), they can consider it a good year and a great turnaround.

Fazor
2013-Sep-27, 06:45 PM
. . . I do have to say that no matter how the rest of the season goes, the Indians have been a pleasant surprise. I for one thought that would struggle to even win 81 games this season, and now they have a legit shot at a playoff spot. My expectations are modest, but even if they got no further than being one of the two wildcards (and then losing), they can consider it a good year and a great turnaround.

You've done well, alien creature, but your disguise has finally cracked. There's no way a Cleveland fan could say something like that. There's no, "I'm glad they have a legit shot at the playoffs, and that's good enough for me." It's, "If they don't win the world series, I'm never watching another Cleveland game again!" (Followed by being there bright and early opening day 2014.)

But I'm really hoping they make a playoff run. I don't think they can win -- their pitching isn't deep enough for that, and their bats are much too fickle -- but a good showing would be nice.

I'll admit, I almost lost it last night when that joker Perez came in and almost blew yet another game; a 5-run lead at that! Which is really what it's like to be a Cleveland fan -- to have no expectations, then have a team surpass that, then suddenly you have expectations, then the team fails at the last moment and you somehow manage to have gone from, "Yeah, we're terrible this year" to completely heartbroken. Usually in the span of the bottom half of a ninth inning.

*sigh*

Swift
2013-Sep-27, 10:22 PM
You've done well, alien creature, but your disguise has finally cracked. There's no way a Cleveland fan could say something like that. There's no, "I'm glad they have a legit shot at the playoffs, and that's good enough for me." It's, "If they don't win the world series, I'm never watching another Cleveland game again!" (Followed by being there bright and early opening day 2014.)

Except for your last parenthetical phrase, the attendance figures would seem to confirm that. Believe it or not, the total season attendance dropped from just over 1.6 million in 2012, to just under 1.6 million in 2013, even though they have like 21 more wins.

Solfe
2013-Sep-27, 10:58 PM
It may make you feel better to know that The Onion did a piece on the top 53 worst Buffalo Bill of this year. The language is harsh in a few cases, so the willing reader will have to Google it.

Fazor
2013-Sep-28, 11:21 PM
Except for your last parenthetical phrase, the attendance figures would seem to confirm that. Believe it or not, the total season attendance dropped from just over 1.6 million in 2012, to just under 1.6 million in 2013, even though they have like 21 more wins.

We were at the game last Thursday against Houston -- sadly the attendance was only ~ 13,000. We wrote it off as, "Well, yeah they're in a playoff race, but it's a Thursday night game."

The game Cleveland played in Minnesota on Thursday night, attendance was, IIRC, 31,000+. And that's a team that's long been eliminated from the playoffs.

Kinda disappointed in Cleveland fans.

NEOWatcher
2013-Sep-30, 05:19 PM
Kinda disappointed in Cleveland fans.
To the fans, the feeling is mutual.
We've been disappointed in those last second losses in those races too many times. Now, hitting a milestone in the race, that's a different story. Wednesdays playoff game sold out real fast.

It's kind of strange... One Cleveland team in a playoff, and the other Cleveland team tied for first in the division. Who'd a thunk?

Besides, this is a football town. When football season comes around, the baseball attendence suffers.

Hlafordlaes
2013-Sep-30, 06:57 PM
Browns are looking good! Taking down the Bengals was supposed to be out of reach for them this season. Go Cleveland!

(From a heart-broken Redskins fan who is running out of tissue paper. True that salary cap penalty left us with no way to draft a decent secondary, but this is ridiculous.)

Fazor
2013-Sep-30, 07:31 PM
It's the pessimist in me, but I'd stop short of saying the Browns are looking good. Rather, I'd probably say that the Browns are looking more competent than I think a lot of us gave them credit for. Suddenly the Richardson trade doesn't look like giving up as much as it looks like grabbing up more draft options.

Their defense is commendable, but it usually is. The offense? Well, Cincinnati has a lot of injuries and Minnesota just isn't very good (and they had that game up until that last minute drive by Cleveland.)

I'm going out of town on Thursday and likely won't have access to radio or television, but I'll be up late watching the Wild Card game Wednesday and, if they mange to survive TB/Tex, I'm excited to get home Sunday to see how they're progressing!

Swift
2013-Sep-30, 08:16 PM
It's kind of strange... One Cleveland team in a playoff, and the other Cleveland team tied for first in the division. Who'd a thunk?

Strange? I think it is a sign of the apocalypse. ;)

Trebuchet
2013-Sep-30, 11:14 PM
So the Indians are in the playoffs and the Yankees aren't. That makes me happy!

NEOWatcher
2013-Nov-18, 06:28 PM
I didn't think I had a reason to bring up yesterday's debacle called football.
But; After watching something horrible, I got a chuckle seeing this headline in the news.
Movie producers trying to locate Browns fan (http://www.wkyc.com/story/news/local/2013/11/18/hollywood-seeks-browns-fan/3593631/)

They say that Cleveland has (one of) the most loyal football fans in the NFL. I guess that means "if you can find them".

But; the game has nothing to do with the story. Unless Kevin Costner has some ideas that can help the team.

On the other hand comedy movies about struggling teams... Major league(Cleveland), Draft Day(Cleveland).
Other movies seem to be limited to minor leagues or individual players.

Swift
2013-Nov-18, 06:37 PM
Movie producers trying to locate Browns fan (http://www.wkyc.com/story/news/local/2013/11/18/hollywood-seeks-browns-fan/3593631/)
That's right kids, movie producers are trying to locate the last Browns' fan (singular). :p

NEOWatcher
2013-Nov-18, 07:34 PM
That's right kids, movie producers are trying to locate the last Browns' fan (singular). :p
Is that the sequel to "The Last Hurrah"?

Swift
2013-Nov-18, 07:38 PM
Is that the sequel to "The Last Hurrah"?
More like "The Last Ho Hum". :D

Chuck
2013-Nov-18, 09:04 PM
The Browns are tied with The Steelers in the standings and they play each other next. It's like getting an early Superbowl.

NEOWatcher
2013-Nov-18, 09:16 PM
The Browns are tied with The Steelers in the standings and they play each other next. It's like getting an early Superbowl.
At 4 and 6, I would call that the Underbowl.

DonM435
2013-Nov-19, 02:55 AM
Maybe the Browns could split off and revive the All-America Football Conference, like the one they ruled in 1946-49.

http://www.profootballhof.com/history/story.aspx?story_id=2973

They'd get to take along San Francisco, Buffalo, Miami, Baltimore or The Colts, some of the less-noteworthy expansion teams, put a new team in Los Angeles. Hey, it could work!

primummobile
2013-Nov-19, 06:46 PM
I'm making the two hour drive to Cleveland on Sunday to see the game. I have been to about two dozen Browns games, and I have never seen them lose.

Swift
2013-Nov-19, 06:52 PM
Maybe the Browns could split off and revive the All-America Football Conference, like the one they ruled in 1946-49.

http://www.profootballhof.com/history/story.aspx?story_id=2973

And they just re-discovered the trophy (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9981740/cleveland-browns-championship-trophy-returned)

The Cleveland Browns have back in their possession one of two known championship trophies the team has won.

The trophy from the team's first championship, which bears the names of six Hall of Fame players and a Hall of Fame coach, was brought to Berea from Raleigh, N.C., where the Browns said a grandson of a minority owner discovered it in a box in his garage.

That championship came in 1946 in the old All-America Football Conference, which the Browns dominated in their four seasons before they joined the NFL.

NEOWatcher
2013-Nov-19, 09:21 PM
I'm making the two hour drive to Cleveland on Sunday to see the game. I have been to about two dozen Browns games, and I have never seen them lose.
Just don't dress like a bumblebee.

primummobile
2013-Nov-20, 12:53 AM
Just don't dress like a bumblebee.

Oh no. I will be wearing brown and orange.

Fazor
2013-Nov-20, 09:03 PM
Oh no. I will be wearing brown and orange.

Enjoy the game!

primummobile
2013-Nov-21, 06:49 PM
Enjoy the game!

Thanks! It's the first time my wife has agreed to attend a game with me. She hates football. So I am hoping it won't be too cold for her to enjoy the game and maybe she will start to enjoy football. Who knows.

Swift
2013-Nov-21, 07:09 PM
Thanks! It's the first time my wife has agreed to attend a game with me. She hates football. So I am hoping it won't be too cold for her to enjoy the game and maybe she will start to enjoy football. Who knows.
It depends on your definition of "too cold". The forecast is for a high about 30F and chance of snow. And the stadium is right by the lake, which may make it a couple of degrees warmer, but that much winder. Dress warm.

primummobile
2013-Nov-22, 07:46 PM
It depends on your definition of "too cold". The forecast is for a high about 30F and chance of snow. And the stadium is right by the lake, which may make it a couple of degrees warmer, but that much winder. Dress warm.

To those of us in NW Pennsylvania, 30F is what we would call "not too cold".

Swift
2013-Nov-22, 07:54 PM
To those of us in NW Pennsylvania, 30F is what we would call "not too cold".
On a different note, you might want to check some of the local Cleveland news/traffic, because there is a major highway closure this weekend (I-90 bridge), requiring some detours, and plan your trip accordingly.

primummobile
2013-Nov-22, 08:03 PM
On a different note, you might want to check some of the local Cleveland news/traffic, because there is a major highway closure this weekend (I-90 bridge), requiring some detours, and plan your trip accordingly.

Okay thanks. I live in PA almost right where I-79 intersects I-80, so I will be going west on 80 to 480 and 77. I do think I hit I-90 after that, but I'm not sure. I will check tonight.

NEOWatcher
2013-Nov-22, 08:34 PM
Okay thanks. I live in PA almost right where I-79 intersects I-80, so I will be going west on 80 to 480 and 77. I do think I hit I-90 after that, but I'm not sure. I will check tonight.
You're ok going into town by 77 (detourwise), but the problem is going to be traffic. Virtually everyone on the west side (or comming from the west) will be hitting 77.
I'm not sure about downtown ramps though. I don't think you'll be affected, but like Swift says, check it out.

You might also think about 80 to 77. It adds a bit to your toll bill, but sometimes 480 through the inner suburbs (and at the 271 splits) can get a little busy. If it's snowing, the 480/271/422 area tends to get heavier snow.

NEOWatcher
2013-Nov-27, 05:49 PM
Hey promummobile... how did it go?
All the predictions turned out to be negative.

The bridge was open, the snow wasn't what they warned and more importantly, they team wasn't even nearly as good as they predicted. (like they say, 2 out of 3 ain't bad)

Anyway, I just wanted to update our quarterback count.
21/14... 1.5 new quarterbacks per year.

Tanney trick shots (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1867000-the-cleveland-browns-sign-a-quarterback-with-a-famous-trick-shot-video?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial&hpt=hp_t3)
The guy may be good at trick shots (even if the video took a lot of takes), but I wonder how he's going to be with a defensive line rushing toward him.

Trebuchet
2013-Nov-27, 06:45 PM
Anyway, I just wanted to update our quarterback count.
21/14... 1.5 new quarterbacks per year.

That's about the rate at which the Seattle Mariners replace managers.

NEOWatcher
2013-Nov-27, 07:06 PM
That's about the rate at which the Seattle Mariners replace managers.
Care to back that statement up? ;)

Looks more like it's 9/14...~.65 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Seattle_Mariners_managers) for the same period. Less if you go back further. Still alot, so I can see how you can think that.

Trebuchet
2013-Nov-28, 12:37 AM
I've long since given up keeping track. And of course, the number of owners, until Nintendo got involved, was pretty ridiculous as well.

primummobile
2013-Dec-02, 01:27 PM
Hey promummobile... how did it go?
All the predictions turned out to be negative.

The bridge was open, the snow wasn't what they warned and more importantly, they team wasn't even nearly as good as they predicted. (like they say, 2 out of 3 ain't bad)

Anyway, I just wanted to update our quarterback count.
21/14... 1.5 new quarterbacks per year.

Tanney trick shots (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1867000-the-cleveland-browns-sign-a-quarterback-with-a-famous-trick-shot-video?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial&hpt=hp_t3)
The guy may be good at trick shots (even if the video took a lot of takes), but I wonder how he's going to be with a defensive line rushing toward him.

The traffic was fine until we were about a mile from the Stadium. We had a lot of snow at home and so I was surprised to see bare ground in Cleveland. The main problem was the temperature. It was very cold at the game, and I'd bet the wind chill was close to 0F. I had a good time until the fourth quarter.

18765

NEOWatcher
2013-Dec-03, 03:34 PM
It was very cold at the game
I can tell by both your skin shading.

primummobile
2013-Dec-03, 04:11 PM
I can tell by both your skin shading.

Ha! That was ten minutes (real time) into the first quarter.

NEOWatcher
2013-Dec-04, 12:37 PM
Anyway, I just wanted to update our quarterback count.
21/14... 1.5 new quarterbacks per year.
Now Caleb Hanie.

22q/14y

Swift
2013-Dec-04, 02:21 PM
"Cleveland - where we go through quarterbacks like most people go through underwear"

Maybe we should start buying them in bulk from Costco? :D

primummobile
2013-Dec-09, 04:50 PM
What are the thoughts on the game yesterday?

Disregarding anything else, I'm thinking that we shouldn't have gone for two points after the first touchdown. IMO, When you're up by two scores that early in the game there isn't any need to take those kinds of risks. I don't usually like to play Monday morning quarterback, but I was thinking the same thing while it was happening.

Campbell and Gordon both had outstanding games.

Swift
2013-Dec-09, 06:39 PM
One the plus side, considering I thought that the Browns were going to get creamed by the Pats, they did really well.

On the flip side, they should have won that game and it really hurts that they didn't (well, it would hurt if I could dredge up any emotions any longer about the Browns).

I don't think Campbell is the QB of the future, but he does a very good job. Shows you how critical a good QB is and how much Wheedon isn't (a good QB). Gordon has the potential to be a star; man is he fast when he turns on the afterburners.

primummobile
2013-Dec-10, 05:00 PM
Agreed. I think that with Travis Benjamin back next year we will finally have a top-notch group of receivers.

I think Jason Campbell is a solid backup. He was a first-round pick and I've thought that maybe he was a slow starter like Alex Smith, but 31 is a little long in the tooth to be starting as a franchise QB. I would like to see them draft a top-notch (and under age 25) quarterback who can take a year to learn under Hoyer and Campbell. (of course, with our luck he would be starting by week 5)

I can still get emotional about the Browns, but I am also a bit of a masochist when it comes to them. I watch both The Drive and The Fumble anytime the NFL Network shows the games.

primummobile
2013-Dec-19, 01:52 PM
My wife planned a surprise birthday party for me yesterday evening. (40!) Among my gifts were two tickets to the Browns/Steelers in Pittsburgh on December 29th. I've been to many Steelers games since I live so close to Pittsburgh, but I've never gone to see the Browns play in Pittsburgh, for obvious reasons.

I guess that after 30+ years as a fan I should go see them play in the city closest to me. I hope it's not too bad, both for me and the team.

Swift
2013-Dec-19, 02:51 PM
Happy birthday primummobile. Have fun at the game

primummobile
2013-Dec-19, 06:26 PM
Thanks. Happy birthday to you too.

NEOWatcher
2014-May-09, 07:24 PM
I would like to see them draft a top-notch (and under age 25) quarterback who can take a year to learn under Hoyer and Campbell.
It looks like you got your wish.

Apparently, a lot of people must feel that way. I was surprised at the sales boost the draft got (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/05/09/2258881/).

the Browns sold more than 1,000 season tickets (new customers and renewals) within the first hour after the end of the first round.
Let's hope these won't be 1000 disappointed fans.

This helps retain our record of over 1.5 quarterbacks per year.
Now... 23Q/15Y.

Swift
2014-May-09, 07:52 PM
\deadpan voice\

I'm trying to contain my excitement about "Johnny Football".... OK, contained.

Trebuchet
2014-May-09, 11:17 PM
Seahawks fans had little difficulty containing their excitement when they drafted Russell Wilson two years ago. You never know.

redshifter
2014-May-10, 12:09 AM
\deadpan voice\

I'm trying to contain my excitement about "Johnny Football".... OK, contained.

Interesting note: he was drafted at the same position (pick #22) as Cleveland's previous QB draft busts...

primummobile
2014-May-10, 01:11 AM
Manziel needs to play under Hoyer for a while. If they don't just throw him to the wolves he may have a chance.

I took a USA Today sportswriter to task today for saying that Manziel was the biggest loser in the draft by virtue of his #22 pick by the Browns.

It is an odd coincidence. But Weeden's and Quinn's failures were far deeper than their spot in the draft. Top of the list would be that neither had the talent to play that position in the NFL.

Click Ticker
2014-May-21, 02:02 PM
So does this fall under conspiracy theories or off topic babbling?

Three out of four years. Champions of the NBA draft lottery again! Unbelievable.

I do love the conspiracy theorists thinking somehow the NBA has an agenda wanting to see Cleveland (Cleveland?) win the lottery.

Right… because they’re all about smaller market, middle America. Exactly. Nothing spells national ratings like a Cleveland championship.

NEOWatcher
2014-May-21, 02:51 PM
I do love the conspiracy theorists thinking somehow the NBA has an agenda wanting to see Cleveland (Cleveland?) win the lottery.
I think the NBA has an agenda trying to prop up a waning fan base in which we fit the bill perfectly. Whether that agend turns into some shady actions is another story.


Right… because they’re all about smaller market, middle America. Exactly. Nothing spells national ratings like a Cleveland championship.
Actual market and potential market are two different things.
Cavs, Indians and Browns all had a very large following in their winning years.

And; while we don't fill stadiums right now (the Browns normally do), I've seen fan bases drop much worse in other cities during slumps.

Click Ticker
2014-May-21, 03:17 PM
I think the NBA has an agenda trying to prop up a waning fan base in which we fit the bill perfectly. Whether that agend turns into some shady actions is another story.

That's true of every fanbase in the lottery, which is what I think your second sentence speaks to. That's why a conspiracy makes no sense. The theorists could come up with RIGGED! for just about every team in the lottery.

Detroit - don't want to see them lose their pick in SVG's 1st year. Waning fan base. Lead the league in attendence when they are good.
Philly, New York, Boston - big east coast markets. RIGGED!
Los Angeles - big west coast market. RIGGED!
Orlando - Lost Dwight Howard, - need to build them back. RIGGED!


Actual market and potential market are two different things.
Cavs, Indians and Browns all had a very large following in their winning years.

2007, the year the Cav's made the finals against San Antonio set a record low in television ratings. Of course Cleveland fan will blame the Spurs.
Not trying to bag on Cleveland (just a fortunate biproduct :)), just saying the rigged talk is silly.

Fazor
2014-May-21, 03:40 PM
Manziel needs to play under Hoyer for a while. If they don't just throw him to the wolves he may have a chance.

Unfortunately that's been their MO. Initially the rookie rides the bench "learning the ropes," but when they're basement-dwelling six games in, panic and name him the new starter. Hopefully they'll break that cycle, but I'm not holding my breath.

I do like some of the off-the-ball moves they've made, and also some pick ups (and a big let-go!) at receiver. But even if they are actually rebuilding into something, how long until they tear that down and rerererererererererererebuild?

Swift
2014-May-21, 03:41 PM
I heard the comment that this proves that Cleveland or the Cavs are the luckest losing team. :rolleyes: John Anderson, the morning anchor on WKYC, was saying he rather that we had a Cavs team that at least made the playoffs (which is a low bar in the NBA) rather than getting all these great draft picks but still having a bad team. I agree.

DonM435
2014-May-21, 05:37 PM
I remember back when Orlando's expansion team got the first pick the following year by virtue of having the League's worst record. The next year, I think, they introduced the lottery system. They wanted to discourage a team that was going to miss the playoffs anyway from losing games on purpose to guarantee a good pick.

Each non-playoff team's chances were weighted inversely to their standing.

Orlando had just missed the playoffs, and so had just one token in the hopper, whereas the worst team had 12 or 16 or whatever, and so on up the ladder. Still, they got picked at something like 32-to-1 odds.

I think they revised the system further so that teams could only move up or down a fixed number of spots.

(You've probably concluded that I don't follow basketball all that much!)

primummobile
2014-May-21, 05:53 PM
I've always wondered about this "small market" stuff. According to what I can find, the Cleveland Combined Statistical Area (which geographically isn't very large) is the fifteenth largest in the United States. Other than New York and Los Angeles, none of those ranked above Cleveland were much over twice the size. So what is a small market?

Click Ticker
2014-May-21, 06:00 PM
The lottery is a weighted lottery with the worst team having a 25% chance of winning and decreasing odds from there through the 14 teams that didn't make the playoffs. I believe it is handled through number combinations, where the worst team has 250 combinations out of 1,000 that could win (Cleveland, with the 9th worst record, had 17 this year giving them a 1.7% chance of winning).

The first three picks in the draft are awarded through this lottery system with picks 4 - 14 assigned to the remaining teams based on record. The best record among non-playoff teams receives pick 14 for example.

Trebuchet
2014-May-21, 06:52 PM
I'm not sure exactly what constitutes a "small market" but Seattle is always listed as one. The effect of being in a small market varies with league. The NFL shares all television revenue equally among the teams. Being in a small market doesn't hurt so much. Combined with an exceedingly wealthy owner, that allowed the Seahawks to be able to afford the players to win the superbowl. Baseball, on the other hand, has no revenue sharing at all. That means the New York Yankees can afford to get the best players year after year. The Seattle Mariners, not so much.

redshifter
2014-May-21, 07:07 PM
I'm not sure exactly what constitutes a "small market" but Seattle is always listed as one. The effect of being in a small market varies with league. The NFL shares all television revenue equally among the teams. Being in a small market doesn't hurt so much. Combined with an exceedingly wealthy owner, that allowed the Seahawks to be able to afford the players to win the superbowl. Baseball, on the other hand, has no revenue sharing at all. That means the New York Yankees can afford to get the best players year after year. The Seattle Mariners, not so much.

The NFL also has a salary cap; teams can only afford so many top players. The Seahawks did an outstanding job finding/evaluating great players in the lower rounds of the draft (or in some cases, undrafted rookie free agents), paid them accordingly on their rookie/ rookie free agent contracts, and they excelled. IOW, they got quite a few great players for little $, which then freed up salary cap $ to get other top players. The tough part is figuring out how to keep those rookies once their rookie contract runs out and then they're worth big $.

Swift
2014-May-21, 07:12 PM
I've always wondered about this "small market" stuff. According to what I can find, the Cleveland Combined Statistical Area (which geographically isn't very large) is the fifteenth largest in the United States. Other than New York and Los Angeles, none of those ranked above Cleveland were much over twice the size. So what is a small market?
First, I'm sure there is no exact definition.

Second, I think the most critical criteria for the size of the "market" is actually the size of the team's revenue (or maybe their potential revenue), since this directly impacts their ability to pay salaries. Third, this (the revenue and the definition) is going to vary a lot from sport-to-sport. IIRC, the NFL has the most revenue sharing of the big sports in the US, so the various teams have pretty similar amounts of revenue, and thus the "small market" definition becomes much less important in the NFL.

Baseball has the least revenue sharing, and so there are very much rich and poor teams. A lot of baseball revenue come from local TV coverage, particularly cable coverage, and so the number of viewers and the amount of advertising becomes critical. I think, as much as anything, that is a working definition of "small markert".

I think basketball is somewhat between the NFL and MLB in revenue sharing.

Trebuchet
2014-Jun-19, 03:49 PM
Having been reminded of this thread from the soccer one:
The Washington Redskins trademark has been cancelled by the USPTO, because it's disrespectful to Native Americans. What about the Cleveland Indians? The name is not all that bad, but that logo!

Fazor
2014-Jun-19, 04:00 PM
Having been reminded of this thread from the soccer one:
The Washington Redskins trademark has been cancelled by the USPTO, because it's disrespectful to Native Americans. What about the Cleveland Indians? The name is not all that bad, but that logo!

The Indians have been steadily pushing the logo into the background for years now. I'm not sure it even appears on the uniforms anymore. Growing up a die-hard Cleveland fan, I have a lot of love for the logo from a purely nostalgic perspective, but I think it'll be totally gone before too long.

Swift
2014-Jun-19, 07:20 PM
The Indians have been steadily pushing the logo into the background for years now. I'm not sure it even appears on the uniforms anymore. Growing up a die-hard Cleveland fan, I have a lot of love for the logo from a purely nostalgic perspective, but I think it'll be totally gone before too long.
From Yahoo Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/big-league-stew/cleveland-indians-marginalize-chief-wahoo-logo-081024357--mlb.html)

Chief Wahoo, the smiling symbol of the Cleveland Indians since the 1940s who is beloved by many but deemed to be racist by others, is being replaced as a primary logo, uniform expert Paul Lukas reported Wednesday. Instead, the team will emphasize a block letter "C" they introduced in recent seasons. The Indians aren't eliminating the Chief — the home uniform will continue to feature him on caps and jersey sleeves — but fans will see less of him overall.

I'd be quite happy to see the Chief disappear. I personally find him more than a bit of an embarrassment.

Still, it seems weird to me that the USPTO can cancel a trademark on the grounds of offensiveness. I'd love to see/hear what the legal justification for that is. I found this article from Sports Illustrated (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/news/20140618/washington-redskins-trademark-cancelled-uspto/) that talks about it a little.

Fazor
2014-Jun-20, 03:52 PM
I'll agree to get rid of the offensive Chief Wahoo logo if baseball also agrees to get rid of those offensive NY Yankees. Sounds like a fair deal to me. ;)

(ETA: That's a joke about not liking the team, but realized after the fact that it could be construed as me arguing the word "yankee" is as offensive as the Wahoo logo. That's not what I meant.)

Swift
2014-Jun-20, 05:30 PM
I'll agree to get rid of the offensive Chief Wahoo logo if baseball also agrees to get rid of those offensive NY Yankees. Sounds like a fair deal to me. ;)

:lol:

Works for me. Besides, only mobsters wear pinstripes.

Trebuchet
2014-Jun-20, 07:01 PM
It's not so much the Yankees I hate as the ridiculous sense of entitlement so common in their fans.

primummobile
2014-Jun-20, 07:06 PM
It's not so much the Yankees I hate as the ridiculous sense of entitlement so common in their fans.

Yeah, they think they're entitled to win the World Series but the Pirates are only allowed to have one winning season between my freshman year of college and 2013.

NEOWatcher
2014-Jul-10, 06:26 PM
I just had to vent...

I am sick and tired of hearing about the slim chance of LeBron coming back to Cleveland.

Yesterday it was 7 out of the top 11 stories on one station. They have to have a story on every little speculation or mention about him.
A chef will let him design a burger, an amusement park will name a coaster after hime, etc.

And then there is tying him into just about every story...
Is Lebron as important as the Republican convention, the weather will be nice while we wait for his decision.

And then there's
Decision could be tonight (Tuesday)
Decision should be later today (Wed and again today)
Now it's could be later in the week. (well it's Thursday, it's already later in the week. I guess they are trying not to sound like a broken record)

Now it's breaking news "<suburb> police are ready for LeBron's decision" and
"he will meet with his family before deciding" (I would hope so)

And then there's a separate story for every sign someone puts up...


Jeeesh. I know he's big money, but enough already.

Swift
2014-Jul-10, 06:35 PM
I heard the joke this morning that thousands of people were waiting outside of Quicken Loans Arena (where the Cavs play) looking for wine colored smoke to come out of the top of the buidling. :D

NEOWatcher
2014-Jul-10, 07:11 PM
And what if it's gold colored smoke?
I don't know which is yes and which is no. I would think gold (the lighter color) would be a yes.

Swift
2014-Jul-10, 07:13 PM
And what if it's gold colored smoke?
I don't know which is yes and which is no. I would think gold (the lighter color) would be a yes.
You are probably right. No would be indicated by whine colored smoke.

NEOWatcher
2014-Jul-10, 07:19 PM
You are probably right. No would be indicated by whine colored smoke.
:clap:

Fazor
2014-Jul-10, 07:32 PM
I just had to vent...

I am sick and tired of hearing about the slim chance of LeBron coming back to Cleveland.

Yesterday it was 7 out of the top 11 stories on one station. . . .

This is my biggest gripe, and this is what made me so mad when he left. I don't like the NBA, and couldn't really care less. I love listening to local sports talk radio. But this is twice now that I don't hear about anything other than "King James." I guess it'd be less annoying if I cared. I just don't.

The way I put it in a conversation yesterday is I'm a Cleveland (city) fan, but not a Cavs fan. I can name precisely one player on the team, and even then, I wasn't sure I was correct. You can't be a fan if you can't name any of the team's players!

So at best, I'd be a Cavilers "well-wisher."

NEOWatcher
2014-Jul-10, 07:52 PM
Now we have a news story about how the news media is here doing news stories.

Trebuchet
2014-Jul-10, 11:54 PM
Maybe LeBro could come to the Seattle SuperSonics. Oh wait, there aren't any. Mr. Starbucks sold us down the river.

ETA: "LeBro" was a typo, but I kind of like it!

Swift
2014-Jul-11, 01:02 AM
Maybe LeBro could come to the Seattle SuperSonics. Oh wait, there aren't any. Mr. Starbucks sold us down the river.

ETA: "LeBro" was a typo, but I kind of like it!
Nick Swisher, who is now a Cleveland Indian, and attended The Ohio State, uses "Bro" and words like that a lot, and so now he and the Indians are pushing this whole "Brohio (http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/cle/ticketing/brohio.jsp)" thing. So Brohio and LeBro would be a perfect combo.

Fazor
2014-Jul-11, 12:23 PM
We're going to the Indians' game tomorrow, so I'm hoping LeBro keeps his mouth shut until at least Sunday, since I imagine whichever way it goes will lead to some shenanigans.

NEOWatcher
2014-Jul-11, 04:28 PM
We're going to the Indians' game tomorrow, so I'm hoping LeBro keeps his mouth shut until at least Sunday, since I imagine whichever way it goes will lead to some shenanigans.
It's progressively getting worse. By tomorrow we might have marches and vigils and stuff like that downtown.

Today; on one local station's site, the decision was 17 out of 18 news stories. The one that wasn't was the weather.
They even have a story whether the stress of waiting is worse for adults or kids. :rolleyes:

primummobile
2014-Jul-11, 04:40 PM
ESPN is saying he is coming back to Cleveland. They started reporting it about half an hour ago.

NEOWatcher
2014-Jul-11, 04:47 PM
Yep;
The news sites are behind, I just passed a TV with the coverage.
They only reported that Sports Illustrated said so. Not, how it all transpired.
But; I now see that there are tweets from the Cavs welcoming him back, so it must be true.

Yeah, the madness is over. Maybe not. We'll probably be getting days of stories of recaps.

Oh; that story about the stress of the kids vs adults. One sentence... Kids seem to be handling it better.
And they "seem" to know this how? :rolleyes:

Sorry Fazor, but I think downtown is going to be having a hangover tomorrow.

primummobile
2014-Jul-11, 05:01 PM
Yep;

,Oh; that story about the stress of the kids vs adults. One sentence... Kids seem to be handling it better.
And they "seem" to know this how? :rolleyes:



I'm guessing it's because kids aren't stuck with the ashes of Lebron James jerseys.

Swift
2014-Jul-11, 05:22 PM
Yeah, the madness is over. Maybe not. We'll probably be getting days of stories of recaps.

Oh no, the madness is just beginning. ;)

Best thing that ever happened to Johnny Manzel; maybe if the media pays him less attention (by concentrating on LeBron) he'll stop getting himself in trouble.

Fazor
2014-Jul-11, 05:35 PM
Oh no, the madness is just beginning. ;)

Best thing that ever happened to Johnny Manzel; maybe if the media pays him less attention (by concentrating on LeBron) he'll stop getting himself in trouble.

Maybe if he stops doing things that will get him into trouble, he'll quit getting into trouble. ;) Well, the LBJ news is simply proof that LeBro reads CQ forums and just wanted to spite me.

Swift
2014-Jul-11, 05:42 PM
Lebron James has been infracted for spiting another member.

Fazor goes to the line, shooting two.

Fazor
2014-Jul-11, 07:19 PM
Lebron James has been infracted for spiting another member.

Fazor goes to the line, shooting two.

". . . Somehow out of two shots, Steve misses six times!"

NEOWatcher
2014-Jul-11, 08:16 PM
I guess I'm not alone in thinking this story is too over reported.
One of the local stations with a myriad of leBron stories has a section for popular stories. No mention of LeBron in there. :lol:

DonM435
2014-Jul-12, 02:04 AM
We're going to the Indians' game tomorrow, so I'm hoping LeBro keeps his mouth shut until at least Sunday, since I imagine whichever way it goes will lead to some shenanigans.

But, surely, this latest news will lift all of Cleveland, including the Indians, to greatness, eh?

Swift
2014-Jul-12, 06:20 PM
But, surely, this latest news will lift all of Cleveland, including the Indians, to greatness, eh?
It did for one day. The Indians are 1-0 since the return of The King.

Fazor
2014-Jul-14, 04:28 PM
It did for one day. The Indians are 1-0 since the return of The King.

They played really flat when we were out there on Saturday. I assume they were out late partying and celebrating the return of "The King." That said, I made it a point to count James jerseys and then saw so few I started just counting any Cavs gear, and there really wasn't that much of it at the ballpark. Saw a little more at the West Side Market and surrounding area.

NEOWatcher
2014-Jul-14, 05:25 PM
That's because the people who are so excited about it can't afford to go to the games.