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manxman
2010-Mar-18, 03:37 PM
When i first joined it was to ask a few questions about a couple of instances of unusual happenings.

Will a mod please adjudicate as to whether this thread is in the appropriate forum thanks.

Heres the first couple of questions.

What did i/we see.
And how did it stay airbourne.

I was travelling between Ramsey and Douglas on the mountain road.
The road wasnt busy and was snow free which was unusual for january.
It was about 10.30 a.m. and i was travelling initially at about 50 mph. whilst climbing a long straight incline that over-looked a small narrow valley travelling all the way down the hillside to the shore line only widening significantly as it nears the sea.
I looked to my left and saw a whitish/grey round tube coming up the valley ahead of me, about 200 yds away and 20 yds in the air travelling towards the road it must have been traveling 30mph atleast.

As it and my vehicle came to within 50 yds of each other it turned and tracked the road away behind me, by this time i had slowed to less than 30 mph and there was a red BMW directly behind me and another car behind him, i had a direct unobscured view of the craft for around 25/30 seconds and a mirror view for alittle longer aswell.

At the top of the incline i indicated and pulled in on the hard shoulder followed by the guy in the BMW.
I got out of my car but could no longer see the craft anywhere.
The guy in the BMW asked me what i thought it was and i replied a drone from Wharton if you ask me, as i dont think aliens use pop rivets.

I did make out seems in its construction.

I then asked him a question and its the same question i have for baut members.

I asked him what he thought made it fly.

His reply was !god knows!.
We made small talk and left, he reported his sighting later on, after the mast collision.
I did not, the police came to see me at my office anyway as they knew by the sign writing on my vehicle who i was courtesy of the BMW driver.

There was no visible means of propulsion and this thing wasnt small 12/15ft long 3ft6in to 4ft in diameter with no markings or appendiges apart from
4 small dark boxes equally spaced at the rear or what i pressumed was the rear and 1 on the front bottom.
The boxes were not square more like moulded and the front one was bigger and more rounded, there was what i would describe as soft short rubber ariels like car ariels but slighly more substantial and i saw 2 of them for sure.
No wings no fins just a white/greyish tube.

Later on in the day all hell broke loose up on the mountain as an unknown object crashed into the BBC telecomunications mast atop snaefell.
2 ladies out riding their horses on the mountain side seen it collide with the mast and reported a small plane had crashed into the sea about a mile offshore after doing so, and trailing smoke all the way down into the sea behind it.
There was a full emergency services turn out with helicopters brought in from wales etc and alot of local rumour.

It was reported in the local press about a naval frigate anchored up within 24hours and staying there 2 days over the reported crash site at sea which made me even surer that it was the drone i had seen earlier in the day that had hit the mast causing many 1000s in damage, and the photos of the damage in the press showed clearly that it was not a bird that had hit it, as was the final conclusion of the manx police.

Although i am pretty sure i know the answer to Q1 there nothing better than absolutely sure.

However i have absolutely no answer to Q2.

I also dont understand why Wharton would be testing said tech over a populated area in day light either.
However its not for me to reason their operations.

Jeff Root
2010-Mar-18, 04:43 PM
I tried to find anything about the incident on the web. Your post here
was the third item in the list brought up by Google. Just 45 minutes after
you posted it.

I found no report of any damage. UFO sites indicate that the event you
describe occurred in 2001, nine years ago.

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

manxman
2010-Mar-18, 04:57 PM
You can find lots on woo sites jeff but its morphed into a black triangle over the years.

ISLE OF MAN UFO should be enough.

All told there were 20+ close viewings.
But it all went very quiet very quickly press wise after the initial excitement.

Which just strenghtened my belief in the drone being responsible.
Bird strike was ludicrous.
Most locals know a local who knows a local who viewed it etc.
Theres no mysterie left in it when they are informed about wharton.
Ive told dozens of people over the years what i saw in the pub etc, its no secret.

Heres a link to a write up thats about as close as you will get but factually wrong in some detail as was reported on local radio at first.
http://www.ufoinfo.com/news/iom.shtml
Caused quite alot of excitement in a small rural community at the time.

heres the view of the masts.
the masts were knocked out signal wise and took over 2 days to get fully working again altho they had emergencie service back online in several hours.
http://www.manxscenes.com/Nov%2004/snaefell.htm
The picture is taken from a road that joins the road i was on at the shoulder where i and the bmw driver parked and looks right across the flight path it took, from the vantage point the pic is taken from the drone would of been side on, but its hard to judge now how far away it would of been.

NEOWatcher
2010-Mar-18, 05:05 PM
Which just strenghtened my belief in the drone being responsible.
Bird strike was ludicrous.
Sounds reasonable to me, but without knowing the terrain, the viewing angles or some kind of picture or illustration of the object, there's no way of narrowing it down.

From your description, it almost sounds like an event I had. I was heading up an incline, and from over the crest a cylindrical shiny metal tube appeared. It was about 4 to 5 feet in diameter and about 25 to 30 feet long. Shocking at first for sure, but as soon as I got closer, I recognized it (http://www.therocketcar.com/rc_history.htm).

Strange
2010-Mar-18, 05:19 PM
What is "Wharton" ?

astrophotographer
2010-Mar-18, 06:38 PM
heres the view of the masts.
the masts were knocked out signal wise and took over 2 days to get fully working again altho they had emergencie service back online in several hours.

Feel free to provide evidence that these radio antennae were knocked out for two days. Documents? Photographs from the time period?

captain swoop
2010-Mar-18, 07:01 PM
200 yds away and 20 yds in the air
12/15ft long 3ft6in to 4ft in diameter

How did you decide on these figures?

kleindoofy
2010-Mar-18, 08:04 PM
... between Ramsey and Douglas on the mountain road. ...
What country/state are you talking about?

Tedward
2010-Mar-18, 08:05 PM
Curious about the outage on the transmitters. What do they transmit for a start. Look like they are the type of mast that carry many services.

Space Chimp
2010-Mar-18, 09:03 PM
What country/state are you talking about?

The Isle of Man I believe. Personally, I blame the Bee Gees.

http://brothers-gibb.webs.com/isle-of-man_map.jpg

grapes
2010-Mar-18, 09:52 PM
Hence, Manx Man

kleindoofy
2010-Mar-18, 10:02 PM
Hence, Manx Man
Ahh, well then, obviously something with which everybody should be accustomed. :think:

eburacum45
2010-Mar-25, 07:18 PM
An interesting tale, Manxman; this incident may well have been caused by an unmanned drone of some sort, or a model aircraft. Alternately the transmitter outage might have been unconnected to the object you saw.

One question remains in my mind, and I see that Captain Swoop has already asked it: how did you determine the size and distance so precisely?

In particular I note that you observed this object from within your car. This makes the details of your sighting somewhat less reliable, I'm afraid. Restrictions on your field of view and the absence of a fixed point to compare the motion of the craft to would make any assesment of this object's size, distance and trajectory difficult. It may have been larger, or smaller, than your estimates by a considerable margin.

Weltraum
2010-Mar-25, 08:04 PM
Heres a link to a write up thats about as close as you will get but factually wrong in some detail as was reported on local radio at first.
http://www.ufoinfo.com/news/iom.shtml
Caused quite alot of excitement in a small rural community at the time.I like the DVD being advertised there:

* How is it possible to travel vast distances of space without exceeding the speed of light?
* How do you generate a gravitational field?
* What is the power source for interstellar travel?

Bob Lazar shatters the cloak of secrecy surrounding the government�s most highly sensitive operations located at an area known as 'S4' of Area 51 in the Nevada Air Force Range. Lazar gives a full account of Alien spacecraft the Government has hidden at S4 as well as details on their propulsion systems and how they operate.

Bob Lazar was part of the reverse-engineering team. As chief physicist on project 'Galileo', Lazar reveals what the Government has known and held secret for decades.

The Lazar Tape - describes and portrays the components and capabilities of an extraterrestrial vehicle used for interstellar travel; a gravity propelled disc.

Between December 1988 and April of 1989, a young nuclear physicist named Bob Lazar was part of the back engineering team. As part of this team his job was to understand and attempt to duplicate the propulsion systems of these craft. He did!Looks like this Lazar guy knows how to build an interstellar craft using some kind of gravitational propulsion, yet the best he can do with this knowledge is sell DVDs to the masses about it :whistle:

Gillianren
2010-Mar-25, 08:07 PM
Oh, boy. Bob Lazar. Well, that's trustworthy.

Strange
2010-Mar-25, 08:50 PM
I like the DVD being advertised there:
Looks like this Lazar guy knows how to build an interstellar craft using some kind of gravitational propulsion, yet the best he can do with this knowledge is sell DVDs to the masses about it

If I had that information, I think I would start an airline, at the very least....

Geo Kaplan
2010-Mar-25, 09:03 PM
Oh, boy. Bob Lazar. Well, that's trustworthy.

Quality guaranteed.

Abaddon
2010-Mar-25, 09:52 PM
You can find lots on woo sites jeff but its morphed into a black triangle over the years.

ISLE OF MAN UFO should be enough.

All told there were 20+ close viewings.
But it all went very quiet very quickly press wise after the initial excitement.

Which just strenghtened my belief in the drone being responsible.
Bird strike was ludicrous.
Most locals know a local who knows a local who viewed it etc.
Theres no mysterie left in it when they are informed about wharton.
Ive told dozens of people over the years what i saw in the pub etc, its no secret.

Heres a link to a write up thats about as close as you will get but factually wrong in some detail as was reported on local radio at first.
http://www.ufoinfo.com/news/iom.shtml
Caused quite alot of excitement in a small rural community at the time.

heres the view of the masts.
the masts were knocked out signal wise and took over 2 days to get fully working again altho they had emergencie service back online in several hours.
http://www.manxscenes.com/Nov%2004/snaefell.htm
The picture is taken from a road that joins the road i was on at the shoulder where i and the bmw driver parked and looks right across the flight path it took, from the vantage point the pic is taken from the drone would of been side on, but its hard to judge now how far away it would of been.
Does it not give you pause for thought that you are admitting these stories grow in the telling? You have acknowledged this is the case in this post. I will not invalidate your observation, but can you see how there is nothing more than personal observations of an aerial event which cannot be identified? Does that immediately allow that ET is here?

Skyfire
2010-Mar-26, 10:43 AM
Does it not give you pause for thought that you are admitting these stories grow in the telling? You have acknowledged this is the case in this post. I will not invalidate your observation, but can you see how there is nothing more than personal observations of an aerial event which cannot be identified? Does that immediately allow that ET is here?

I think if you look through his post you will find he isn't proposing it to be ET, but almost certainly man made ... (bolding mine)


<SNIP> ... </SNIP>

The guy in the BMW asked me what i thought it was and i replied a drone from Wharton if you ask me, as I dont think aliens use pop rivets.

I did make out seams in its construction.

I then asked him a question and its the same question I have for baut members.

I asked him what he thought made it fly.

His reply was 'god knows'.

<SNIP> ...

It seems that last point is what Manxman is asking ...

Hopefully I have that right ...

Tedward
2010-Mar-28, 07:52 AM
heres the view of the masts.
the masts were knocked out signal wise and took over 2 days to get fully working again altho they had emergencie service back online in several hours.
http://www.manxscenes.com/Nov%2004/snaefell.htm
The picture is taken from a road that joins the road i was on at the shoulder where i and the bmw driver parked and looks right across the flight path it took, from the vantage point the pic is taken from the drone would of been side on, but its hard to judge now how far away it would of been.


Really interested in this if possible. They look like a mast that carries multiple services. Some services have redundancy but this is an expense so depends on the owner of the services pocket and what the service is. There is also the issue of the feeds getting to the towers, microwave or cable or both and do they have redundancy built in?

So what services or were all off for a while? There are many possibilities here.

Edit again.

Perhaps best not mention how stuff gets there. Call me paranoid but people steal the stuff.

Apologies for the edits.

Grashtel
2010-Mar-28, 01:49 PM
Perhaps best not mention how stuff gets there. Call me paranoid but people steal the stuff.

Seeing as Snafell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snaefell) is a well known landmark and has a cafe at the top as well as the communication masts I wouldn't be too worried about people knowing how stuff gets there.

Tedward
2010-Mar-28, 03:07 PM
Yeah, point taken. Cables can get damaged and stolen. Some thieves emptied a cable store or rather took the pallets that had fibre optical cable that had not been taken into the store one night. I would have loved to have been there as they tried to burn it all down for the copper.

captain swoop
2010-Mar-28, 08:28 PM
That's one of he most common causes of delays on Britiah Railways, Signal Cables being stolen for scrap.

Spoons
2010-Mar-29, 04:57 AM
I like the DVD being advertised there:...
Really, advertising generally works on key words from a site.

It's not reasonable to belittle the site based on the ads, otherwise BAUT would have zero credibility based on the ads that appear at the top of most pages. Is there anything much to note from the actual content of the site?

The issue of scale and the distances involved is the biggest constraint to looking further into any propulsion method, isn't it? Without a clear reference point is there any good way to make an assessment? Anyone see a shadow?

Spoons
2010-Mar-29, 05:37 AM
manxman, Strange asked a good question - what is "Wharton"?

I looked it up and didn't find anything that looked relevant. Do you have an explanation or a link you could provide?

NEOWatcher
2010-Mar-29, 02:06 PM
Really, advertising generally works on key words from a site.
Generally, but not in this case.

eburacum45
2010-Mar-29, 06:18 PM
Perhaps Manxman is talking about RAF Wharton, not too far from the Isle of Man, where some people think secret black projects are being tested.
http://robocat.users.btopenworld.com/halo.htm (caution; woo.)

I'll let you into a secret - if the UK are funding any black projects, they will be the cheapest black projects possible. A miniature UAV would be about all we could afford.

CJSF
2010-Mar-29, 07:47 PM
Where is RAF Wharton? Google maps doesn't show anything.

CJSF

RobDog
2010-Mar-29, 08:04 PM
Where is RAF Wharton? Google maps doesn't show anything.

CJSF

Perhaps Warton Aerodrome?

http://www.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=PR4+1AX

It's certainly close to Isle of Man

CJSF
2010-Mar-29, 08:39 PM
Looks over 100 miles away, but I suppose that's close enough? I find it interesting that manxman specifically recalls seeing rivets (or something similar).

manxman, did you get a good enough view, as far as you recall, to rule out any wings at all on the thing? Is it probable that the angle you saw it, thin wings would have seemed invisible?

CJSF

captain swoop
2010-Mar-29, 08:54 PM
Acording to some UFO types the RAF even has its own 'Area 51' where UFOs are kept.

Spoons
2010-Mar-30, 12:57 AM
Originally Posted by Spoons
Really, advertising generally works on key words from a site.

Generally, but not in this case.
Ah, I see. They have a few different ads which it cycles through - when I loaded the site last time I got a different DVD advert, but got the one you were talking about this time.

eburacum45
2010-Apr-01, 06:00 AM
Apologies; yes, it is Warton airfield, owned by BAE, not the RAF.

I should think that this mysterious drone must have had wings of some sort, if it was of human manufacture. A cylinder by itself wouldn't fly very well. The only cylindrical flying object I've heard of is a kind of kite, which itself is occasionally responsible for UFO reports; here's one variant
http://www.windpowersports.com/accessories/images/tails/startube.jpg
and here's another
http://www.windwizard.com/janny.html

Skyfire
2010-Apr-02, 12:17 AM
Apologies; yes, it is Warton airfield, owned by BAE, not the RAF.

I should think that this mysterious drone must have had wings of some sort, if it was of human manufacture. A cylinder by itself wouldn't fly very well. The only cylindrical flying object I've heard of is a kind of kite, which itself is occasionally responsible for UFO reports; here's one variant
http://www.windpowersports.com/accessories/images/tails/startube.jpg
and here's another
http://www.windwizard.com/janny.html

Both those are what are known as windsocks. They require a line held up by a 'lifter' kite - i.e. a big kite holding up the line - then the windsocks are attached lower down the line. They can often seem detached from the lifter kite, especially if the line is long and thin, thus practically invisible.

A circular kite that truly flies on its own is a circoflex, a couple of examples can be seen here:

http://www.cit.griffith.edu.au/~anthony/kites/circoflex/responses.html

and a video of one flying:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hq1WwFbOvU

I hope this is of interest!

(note: I am a member of Sky Symphony Kite display Team - www.skysymphony.co.uk if you want to see more!)

Regards.

Garrison
2010-Apr-02, 08:51 PM
looking at the pictures of the circoflex i can imagine it generating a few UFO sightings.

Luckmeister
2010-Apr-03, 12:32 AM
Aha! I cry HOAX!! That can't possibly be a kite. Everyone knows kites can't be that shape. Obviously the UFO pilot was caught with clear video evidence so he threatened the bystanders with horrible alien torture if they didn't Photoshop the string into the vid and support this blatant coverup. What's the phone number for C2C. I must tell the world!!

Skyfire
2010-Apr-03, 07:55 PM
Aha! I cry HOAX!! That can't possibly be a kite. Everyone knows kites can't be that shape. Obviously the UFO pilot was caught with clear video evidence so he threatened the bystanders with horrible alien torture if they didn't Photoshop the string into the vid and support this blatant coverup. What's the phone number for C2C. I must tell the world!!

Darn! Spotted! I will now have to give them your info to put a stop to the message spreading! In fact, I better give our alien overlords the details of everyone on BAUT, just to be on the safe side!



:)