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Buttercup
2010-Apr-01, 05:37 PM
I'm having a difficult time forgiving a man (real life) who quite wrongly judged me. Though I minded my business and generally kept to the ladies, this guy heard something (negative / unfounded) -- believed it and proceeded to project his own obvious behaviors/attitudes onto me. He was always flirting with the ladies, wanted to be center of female attention, seemed to be dating a lady there when in fact his fiancee was always absent (they've subsequently married). It's "okay" when he's inappropriate, and meanwhile he's hostile and judgmental towards me "based on" a bit of slander.

I'm tempted to tell this guy off, even though I'm no longer socializing there. I've been faithful to my husband of 17 years, through some incredibly difficult times. Who is this little punk married a scant 4 months to have judged me thusly? I'm having difficulty letting this go, because his hateful hypocritical stares keep coming back to mind. Of course "telling him off" would do no good; he'd never see the truth about himself (projection), and would go raising a ruckus besides. :( Just had to vent a little.

Fazor
2010-Apr-01, 05:49 PM
Ah, I am blessed with an attitude of "who cares". There's not many people who I have issue with or who have issue with me (at least in person. Online? Who knows), and the ones that do, I just leave to their own devices. I figure, if they don't like me it's their loss. ;)

Gillianren
2010-Apr-01, 06:13 PM
If the behaviour hasn't changed, what's to forgive? Forgiveness is a two-way street.

TheHalcyonYear
2010-Apr-01, 06:19 PM
I believe in forgiveness. If what someone thinks or says is not true it is as noise and not worth my time.

If what the man says is foolish, forgive him his foolishness and take pity on him for his ignorance. The chances of changing his mind are slim, so why waste energy that could be spent doing something more constructive in the world. The gods know the world needs as much constructive energy as it can get.

TheHalcyonYear
2010-Apr-01, 06:20 PM
If the behaviour hasn't changed, what's to forgive? Forgiveness is a two-way street.
For some perhaps, but I believe that much ignorance should be pitied and the individual should be ignored.

Buttercup
2010-Apr-01, 06:26 PM
I see that point (Fazor), but for some reason I can't quite let this go. It's the principle of the matter ultimately, and his galling level of obvious hypocrisy and flat-out judgmental hatred. And considering we've successfully achieved 17 years of marriage...(compared to his puny 4 months). I never foresaw dealing with a false accusation of that nature; my family, in-laws and friends would be (rightfully) floored. My husband has now dismissed the matter, but I can't. It should be easy to blow off an idiot like that guy, but I've never encountered being so absolutely negatively judged like that before. :confused: It was insulting, ultimately; I guess that's the issue here: I felt truly insulted.

And again, his own obvious flirtatious behaviors and practically obsessing over a lady there while his fiancee wasn't around. What a hypocrite. Maybe I could make a cream pie and smack it in his face...no, that'd be assault wouldn't it? :P And a waste of good cream and crust. :rolleyes:

LookingSkyward
2010-Apr-01, 06:35 PM
For my nickel, Buttercup, if it's not an ongoing issue, let it go. Rest on your reputation. :) If it's an ongoing issue, that's a different story, but I'd start by calling out to my friends and family that they know me better than that :) Altering the behaviour of jerks can take a lot of energy.

HenrikOlsen
2010-Apr-01, 06:42 PM
If the behaviour hasn't changed, what's to forgive? Forgiveness is a two-way street.
Or to say it another way, there can be no forgiveness without repenting.

gzhpcu
2010-Apr-01, 06:55 PM
The way you describe him, he is a jerk. Why bother even letting yourself get irked? Ignore him, unless, of course, he is slandering you with your friends. Should this occur calmly confront him.

rommel543
2010-Apr-01, 07:15 PM
... It's "okay" when he's inappropriate, and meanwhile he's hostile and judgmental towards me "based on" a bit of slander....

If, like LookingSkyward suggested, this is something that has occurred in the past and you're not having to associate with this person again I would suggest leaving it in the past where it belongs. If you attempt to approach him it will look like you are holding a grudge about something and he can take a 'moral highroad' and plead ignorance to what you're talking about, making him look like a victim in the situation. A part of that letting it go is a kind of a forgiveness, but more of a 'what can you expect from that type' and letting it be.

If you have the back luck of having to be around this person and interact with him try taking a humble approach. You mentioned that he's hostile toward you because of a 'bit of slander'. Tell him that "YOU" feel that "YOU" may have hurt his feelings by what "YOU" said, and apologize. Make sure you do this with other people around so if he turns into a jerk and continues his vendetta then he's the one in the wrong. Also you noticed my emphasis on the "you". When ever you are discussing issues like this make sure you put it in terms about you. "I feel that....", "I think that..", etc. Don't say things like "You feel that..", "You think that..." because then you can be accused of telling him how he feels. You can't be accused of saying how you feel since there is nothing wrong with feeling something. Also make sure you keep the tone of your voice humble but business like the whole time, and keep the conversation around other people. Yes other people will see you eat of piece of humble pie but its better than being painted as a 'you know what' behind your back.

Buttercup
2010-Apr-01, 07:26 PM
For my nickel, Buttercup, if it's not an ongoing issue, let it go. Rest on your reputation. :) If it's an ongoing issue, that's a different story, but I'd start by calling out to my friends and family that they know me better than that :) Altering the behaviour of jerks can take a lot of energy.

gzhpcu:

The way you describe him, he is a jerk. Why bother even letting yourself get irked? Ignore him, unless, of course, he is slandering you with your friends. Should this occur calmly confront him.

Thanks to all who've responded. :) It's not actively ongoing, insofar as I've quit that group some time ago (mostly because I had to wonder who'd maligned my name and set that nut off against me). It might be indirectly ongoing, if he's "talking." Ultimately it probably won't directly affect me anymore. It's the principle of the matter...and to have been judged to that extent, over something of that nature (marital fidelity and character), by a person who was essentially a total stranger. :confused: It was insulting and disturbing. I've never encountered being "judged, tried and condemned" in another person's mind like this before. And he never even bothered to try and get to know me (thankfully, it turns out). I can't help thinking I've encountered a 21st century version of "witch-hunt" mentality, and that bothers me. A sobering reminder, I guess, that even in this time and culture such malignantly little minds exist.

Guess I just need to let it go.

Nick Theodorakis
2010-Apr-01, 07:35 PM
If it helps, think of "letting go" as a means of destroying his power. If you are resentful because of him, then you are allowing him to have power over you.

Nick

megrfl
2010-Apr-01, 07:36 PM
I'm having a difficult time forgiving a man (real life) who quite wrongly judged me. Though I minded my business and generally kept to the ladies, this guy heard something (negative / unfounded) -- believed it and proceeded to project his own obvious behaviors/attitudes onto me.

Who is the gossip hound who spread this negative/unfounded info? Maybe he/she should get a mud pie in the face, not literally, of course.


He was always flirting with the ladies, wanted to be center of female attention, seemed to be dating a lady there when in fact his fiancee was always absent (they've subsequently married). It's "okay" when he's inappropriate, and meanwhile he's hostile and judgmental towards me "based on" a bit of slander.

He sounds like a big fat dolt and not worth your concern. I'm more concerned with the slanderer and their motivation.


I'm tempted to tell this guy off, even though I'm no longer socializing there. I've been faithful to my husband of 17 years, through some incredibly difficult times. Who is this little punk married a scant 4 months to have judged me thusly? I'm having difficulty letting this go, because his hateful hypocritical stares keep coming back to mind. Of course "telling him off" would do no good; he'd never see the truth about himself (projection), and would go raising a ruckus besides. :( Just had to vent a little.

Can you set the gossip hound straight? I think that would be the best course of action and maybe your confrontation will trickle back to the other little weasel. I hope I'm not being to harsh. :)

ETA: After posting I see that you don't know who spread the false information.

Gillianren
2010-Apr-01, 08:05 PM
Buttercup, are your seventeen years better than my seven? Sure, he may have only been married for four months, but unless you know the inside of the relationship, you can't really make a point based on it. And, in fact, I'm not married yet. I don't know when I will be.

TheHalcyonYear
2010-Apr-01, 08:42 PM
Or to say it another way, there can be no forgiveness without repenting.
I don't see this as some sort of universal rule. I think it is quite possible to forgive someone who has not repented or has no intention of ever repenting. Personally I think that someone who binds themselves to foolish ideas and behaviors punishes themselves to a far greater extent than I could ever punish them. I usually forgive them and them pity them their ignorance.

TheHalcyonYear
2010-Apr-01, 08:44 PM
So much anger and desire to confront. Let the poor fool go. If what an individual says is untrue, their words are as noise. Those who would believe them are ignorant.

Fazor
2010-Apr-01, 08:50 PM
You know what thing that I find about ignoring jerks like that? They tend to let it drop once they realize they're not getting any attention from you. They want that emotional response. Some people just thrive off of conflict, so they create it everywhere they go.

And even if someone is saying something bad about you that's true, acting like it doesn't phase you often makes others think "Hell, if he doesn't care, then it must not be a big deal." You read psychology. You can trick a lot of people into a lot of things just because of our tendency to not want to act different than someone else (even though most of us say we want to be individuals and don't care what other people say or do).

But what really pushes me into the path of pacifism is that I'm too much like George from 'Seinfield'. I can usually think up great come-backs and one-liners . . . just not until it's way too late for them!

Edit: hmm. My first sentence seems barely coherent to me, and I wrote it. Oh well, I'll leave it as is for posterity.

Buttercup
2010-Apr-01, 08:54 PM
If it helps, think of "letting go" as a means of destroying his power. If you are resentful because of him, then you are allowing him to have power over you.

Nick

Agreed.


megrfl: Can you set the gossip hound straight? I think that would be the best course of action and maybe your confrontation will trickle back to the other little weasel. I hope I'm not being to harsh.

ETA: After posting I see that you don't know who spread the false information.

That's another sore point in all this: I have an idea who, but can't prove it. And I can't imagine what the motivation was, and especially what was said to set that guy's intense hostility off. :confused: If he'd had it in his power to eject me from the group, I'd have been tossed out on my head in a heartbeat. I think the gossip has likely come to regret, but eggs can't be unscrambled. Probably they had no inkling this guy's a wacko, would believe it like gospel and "take me to task for it." Hopefully this will teach the gossip to NOT do so in the future; I not only had to pay for it, but there was also disruption in the group because of. It all could have been avoided.

Gillianren, you make a point. But I guess I'm likening this to "Who's a newly arrive private to judge a Captain's record of service?" I don't know about his marriage of course, but overall mine's been good and gets better with each passing year.

Working on forgetting now. ::sigh::

kleindoofy
2010-Apr-01, 09:02 PM
I'm having a difficult time forgiving a man ...
So don't.

If he says "I'm sorry," then forgive and forget.

If he doesn't, just sit back and wait. Be patient.

Revenge is a dish best served cold. If you wait long enough, he'll present you with a golden opportunity on a sliver platter to screw him over tenfold or just to watch him screw himself over tenfold. They always do.

As they say: beware the wrath of a patient adversary.

Some say that people who don't forget eat away at their own souls. My experience shows that people who always run to turn the other cheak not only get taken advantage of, they also tend to develope neuroses of varying degrees.

Although it may be horribly incorrect politically, people who wait things out and collect their dues tend to feel better in the long run.

Perhaps the best thing is just to have a bad memory.

The Backroad Astronomer
2010-Apr-01, 09:20 PM
There have been people I have been able to forgive and there are others that I just can't even after 10 years.

chrissy
2010-Apr-01, 09:23 PM
Hi Buttercup, for one I wouldn't try to gain a single worry line for this total and obvious waste of oxygen. Like Fazor said why worry about what someone thinks of you, if they don't like you it's their loss and someone elses gain as a good friend. Your husband knows and trusts you as do others in your close circle of friends. I wouldn't even consider going down the "forgive him road", he hasn't done anything to get it nor offered you a simple apology for his actions.
IMO BC, you wouldn't be at a great loss if he was out of the picture completely would you?
Keep your chin up. :)

Gillianren
2010-Apr-01, 09:30 PM
And honestly, even forgiving doesn't mean you have to deal with the person ever again. A past therapist and I spend months working on that. I don't talk to my younger sister for a lot of long and complicated reasons, and she helped me see that I don't have to. Moving on works just fine. And at that, I didn't forgive my sister until she apologized, six years after I'd moved to another state.

uncommonsense
2010-Apr-01, 09:35 PM
Hey Buttercup - been awhile. I think you mentioned it twice now, once in the OP and another time more recent -that is, "who is he"? "He is a stanger".

Just some food for thought - a stranger knows very little, if anything, about you - beyond your vital stat's, ie, name, address, married, etc......therefore, any insult or judgement against your character from a stranger is baseless.

Sometimes we tend to "brush off" judgments about us made by our friends and loved ones, while judgments and insults from stangers really get under our skin.

Figure out why, and you will resolve the issue. Peace.

Buttercup
2010-Apr-01, 10:14 PM
uncommonsense: Sometimes we tend to "brush off" judgments about us made by our friends and loved ones, while judgments and insults from stangers really get under our skin.

That's a good point, and true. I guess we don't expect to be so completely and severely judged by a stranger; it's a true injustice because they don't know the person they're judging; it's stupid. Of course I don't condone judging others regardless. But this situation was worsened by someone (who I probably thought of as a friend) baselessly backstabbing me for no reason. It's a pity overall and generated unnecessary hardships/fallout. The gossip unwittingly handed this guy a loaded pistol (so to speak), and he used it. I'm sure they're sorry for that now, but "it's much too late for goodbye." I guess the overall senselessness of this situation is the real "bug."


Figure out why, and you will resolve the issue. Peace.

Thanks. :)

Cookie
2010-Apr-01, 10:25 PM
Upgrade to a camera phone, if you don't have one already, and just start taking incriminating pictures of people that insult you, then mail them to their significant other, anonymously.
Pretend you are texting.
Don't tell anyone it was you who sent em, and be sure wear gloves so as not to get your fingerprints on the paper or envelope, use stamps, and don't mail it from your own mailbox.
:dance:

closetgeek
2010-Apr-02, 11:27 AM
Buttercup I can identify with your feeling. When someone wrongs me, I want justice and find it very difficult to move past it. I try to remind myself that people who tend to look outward and judge, do so to avoid looking inward. People like this guy are something to be pitied but forgiveness is something asked for, not automatically granted. I agree with everyone who said not to give him an ounce of concern, it sounds like you didn't care for him before so his opinion shouldn't matter now.

John Jaksich
2010-Apr-02, 12:20 PM
Dear Buttercup,

IMO--forgiveness may be a two way street----> but I have always found that possessing the ability to forgive starts by forgiving oneself.

Buttercup
2010-Apr-02, 12:48 PM
Buttercup I can identify with your feeling. When someone wrongs me, I want justice and find it very difficult to move past it.

Usually I can, but this was a peculiarly complicated situation. I'd returned (in late 2008) to a group who overall re-welcomed me very warmly. To my surprise was this man, who I'd never met before. It stung to realize someone I'd known prior apparently backstabbed me; about what?. :confused: There's more, but suffice to say the situation continued to escalate. Others wanted me to stay and continue socializing, but it became increasingly difficult. Unfortunately the judgmental weirdo had a position there (as did another woman, also newly arrived in my absence, who took cues from him). Friends stood up for me; I'm grateful, but it couldn't go on.


I try to remind myself that people who tend to look outward and judge, do so to avoid looking inward.

Yep. And they project like mad.


People like this guy are something to be pitied but forgiveness is something asked for, not automatically granted. I agree with everyone who said not to give him an ounce of concern, it sounds like you didn't care for him before so his opinion shouldn't matter now.

If it didn't involve "questions" about my character and marital fidelity, it'd be easier. That really struck me to the core; I never foresaw encountering anyone who'd have the utmost temerity this guy did. And to a stranger (me) besides. His hypocrisy was also galling; his "concept" of me was what he himself was obviously guilty of. To be really frank, it smacked of old-fashioned sexism: A woman is whatever he's heard and/or believes, and he's got the right to express contempt and disapproval if it's negative; and meanwhile anything he does is A-OK. I know lots of men are not this way, but this guy apparently is. :mad:

Thanks again for all comments. :)

Moose
2010-Apr-02, 01:05 PM
I'll just say this: there's a difference between forgiveness and letting go. You can't forgive something for which he feels no remorse. But you can let it go and resume enjoying your marriage.

But yeah, people who are invariably accusing others of infidelity (without evidence) are frequently doing so to hide their own. This... specimen... sounds like a real piece of work.

TheHalcyonYear
2010-Apr-02, 08:11 PM
I'll just say this: there's a difference between forgiveness and letting go. You can't forgive something for which he feels no remorse. But you can let it go and resume enjoying your marriage.

But yeah, people who are invariably accusing others of infidelity (without evidence) are frequently doing so to hide their own. This... specimen... sounds like a real piece of work.
Why not? Forgiveness is for each individual to consider and offer or not offer. What the person that one chooses to forgive does is of no consequence.

TheHalcyonYear
2010-Apr-02, 08:13 PM
Buttercup I can identify with your feeling. When someone wrongs me, I want justice and find it very difficult to move past it.
But the world is not necessarily fair or just. One can, however, find peace and forgive without justice.

grapes
2010-Apr-02, 08:40 PM
It's not actively ongoing, insofar as I've quit that group some time agoSame what was discussed in February?

http://www.bautforum.com.php5-9.dfw1-2.websitetestlink.com/showthread.php/100285-The-end-of-a-personal-odyssey-yay!

Let it go.

Buttercup
2010-Apr-02, 09:06 PM
Grapes: No, as this thread pertains to 1 person in the past year -- who still has a position (and the potential for harming my name even now).

p.s.: You may lock the thread, however, if you're responding in Moderator mode. I can't add much further and didn't intend to. :)

grapes
2010-Apr-02, 10:20 PM
No, I meant let it go, in the same sense as LookingSkyward. Moderator mode would be in purple.

Tinaa
2010-Apr-03, 12:23 PM
The best revenge is to live well and be happy. Carrying a grudge only hurts you. The person with whom you are angry probably doesn't know, or more likely, doesn't even care.

Argos
2010-Apr-03, 01:44 PM
Forgiveness... I hope this song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fw2QnANVmrU), which makes a deep philosophical inquiry on the subject, will help you out.

Buttercup
2010-Apr-03, 02:15 PM
Forgiveness... I hope this song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fw2QnANVmrU), which makes a deep philosophical inquiry on the subject, will help you out.

Thanks Argos. I'll check it out. :) And to grapes and Tinaa. I'm going to begin speaking with a counselor about this situation. I'm awakening every morning hating that man and this overall situation. That is not like me at all. Actually he did get a comeuppance on my behalf (which only increased his animosity towards me), but I'm not satisfied. Overall this is not me, and I'm surprised the sting of it has gone this deeply. I've been hurt worse before (haven't we all?), but for some reason I can't get past this. So off to the counselor I go...

Argos
2010-Apr-03, 02:27 PM
The best revenge is to live well and be happy. Carrying a grudge only hurts you. The person with whom you are angry probably doesn't know, or more likely, doesn't even care.

Yeah, Beware of the Cortisol.

grapes
2010-Apr-03, 02:58 PM
and the frumious... you know...

Argos
2010-Apr-03, 03:22 PM
and the frumious... you know...

;)

Gillianren
2010-Apr-03, 07:19 PM
I've been hurt worse before (haven't we all?), but for some reason I can't get past this. So off to the counselor I go...

That is a very intelligent decision. Some people say that I think everyone should be in therapy, and that isn't true. I will say that I think most people have one time or another in their lives when therapy would be a good idea. If this has hit you so severely, and you don't know why, this is your time. With luck, it won't be for long.

kleindoofy
2010-Apr-03, 07:56 PM
... That is not like me at all. ... Overall this is not me ...
Well, it obviously is you, even if you don't like it.

Therapy won't help at all if you deny that part of you instead of accepting it and learning to deal with it.

Gillianren
2010-Apr-03, 08:15 PM
Well, it obviously is you, even if you don't like it.

Therapy won't help at all if you deny that part of you instead of accepting it and learning to deal with it.

If it's something unusual, a reaction you wouldn't ordinarily have, it can help you work out why you're having it, if nothing else, and maybe help you move on.

Ana72
2010-Apr-05, 01:18 PM
Forgiveness is very important to have a peace of mind. Why not forgive? You will not lose anything, instead, you'll gain something.. You'll be blessed!! :)