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JohnD
2010-Apr-05, 11:07 AM
All,
There are more and more posts from people wanting to discuss ideas for SF stories. That's fine, especially as they are turning to the expertyise and knowledge base of tis board, but does it fit into the existing forum structure?

It's not Space/Astronomy Q&M, it's not Science & Technoology.
By definition, it's SF.
It's not ATM, as the authors aren't trying to argue against recognised theory, but to extend or stretch that for the purposes of story telling.

Do we need an SF ideas forum?
I don't want to ghettoise the board anymore than it already is, but it would allow those who want to let their imaginations fly to do so without the need to moderate them for thread diversion or ATM with intent.

John

01101001
2010-Apr-05, 12:45 PM
There are more and more posts from people wanting to discuss ideas for SF stories. That's fine, especially as they are turning to the expertyise and knowledge base of tis board, but does it fit into the existing forum structure?

Some statisitics would help. If you took all the existing topics about SF ideas, how many are there? How many topics get started daily? How many articles daily? How would it compare in usage to the existing subfora?

At least until it looks comparable, no.

But, is it in the mission of BAUT? Is it something in the direction BAUT should become? Should it just be clumped with the existing space/astronomy science-oriented cultural forum? Or is it even a problem that needs a solution?

Kaptain K
2010-Apr-05, 12:46 PM
A number of members use Off Topic Babbling to float SF ideas (or even completed stories) past the board.

captain swoop
2010-Apr-05, 01:36 PM
Off Topic Babbling would seem to fit the bill, we get very few 'SF Idea' threads that won't go in there. We also have the 'Small Media at large' forum.

JohnD
2010-Apr-05, 09:49 PM
Of the 30 threads on the front page of the Space/Astronomy Q&A pages today, 5 are about SF stories.
Of the 7976 threads on the whole forum, there are five pages -150 threads? - that include the words "Science Fiction".

2% becomes 16%. Is that a trend? Lousy selection criteria, I know, but anyway.
Haven't searched the other two forums mentioned, nor if mods have felt to the need to intervene on any of these SF threads.
But you would know that better than I.

John

Gillianren
2010-Apr-06, 02:25 AM
I'd exempt at least half the SMaL threads with "science fiction" in the title, if not more, from consideration. They're occasionally help threads, but just as frequently, they're discussions.

EDG
2010-Apr-06, 03:24 PM
I just ask all my SF questions on the Q&A board - they're usually related to something astronomical anyway (usually I preface it with [Worldbuilding] or something).

TheHalcyonYear
2010-Apr-07, 03:42 AM
I don't see any need for an SF forum. I think we are doing just fine with the one we have.

tdvance
2010-Apr-07, 07:10 PM
My 15 cents (inflation): no need for an SF forum---the forums we have now seem adequate to the task.

slang
2010-Apr-07, 09:48 PM
EDG_ asked a similar question (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php/84995-Worldbuilding-forum) a while ago, and true enough, around that time there were several of such threads. But then, and before, IIRC, there were long periods of hardly any. So, unless it would attract dozens of SF writers, such a forum would likely be inactive for long periods. Thus likely to be merged with some other forum in the future, probably breaking all links to it. IMHO anyway.

JohnD
2010-Apr-12, 08:35 PM
This is an ocasional and inexhaustive survey, but of the eleven posts for today (12/4) in Q&A, three (maybe two) are avowadly on questions about SF plotlines.

John

TheHalcyonYear
2010-Apr-12, 10:31 PM
This is an ocasional and inexhaustive survey, but of the eleven posts for today (12/4) in Q&A, three (maybe two) are avowadly on questions about SF plotlines.

John
Perhaps so, but many of us here believe that a separate forum isn't needed for these. Perhaps if you set up a poll and enough people agreed with you you could take it to the mods. Alternatively, perhaps you could raise the question directly with the mods and see if they agreed with you that it would result in smoother running of the forums.

captain swoop
2010-Apr-13, 07:51 AM
Posters asked questions in the Q&A Forum? wow.

NeptuneRise
2010-Apr-13, 10:54 AM
I think that a separate S&F forum would be beneficial. I spent 2 and a half hours searching for something even remotely answering what I had in mind before I opened the topic about the Worldbuilding project issue I had. Also, I saw others asking for this as well, and I think they are right. A separate forum would bring all those who discuss S&F related stuff to one place, and maybe bring even more people who wish to discuss the same thing, since now there is a separate forum about it, they don't have to ask everything in the Q&A forum. With that said, I don't think that the forum will lack activity. Quite the contrary in fact. I dunno about others, but, since I have joined, I'm here everyday, looking for things that fit my interests, and I have to scry them from one sub-forum to another sub-forum, instead of having a one forum for all - non-science-and-astronomy-related-stuff type of hang-out.

I even wanted to ask for a separate Worldbuilding forum to be in consideration, but I see that you already made up your minds on that thread EDG_ started. But I think that a S&F forum would only benefit you rather then making things complex for you. Just a thought.

captain swoop
2010-Apr-13, 06:50 PM
This isn't a Science Fiction Board. It's an astronomy Board. We already have Off Topic Babbling and Small Media At Large where you can discuss SciFi. You can ask questions in the Q&A section if they relate to Astronomy or Astrophysics, we have the Science and Technology forum for any others.

NeptuneRise
2010-Apr-13, 07:50 PM
This isn't a Science Fiction Board. It's an astronomy Board. We already have Off Topic Babbling and Small Media At Large where you can discuss SciFi. You can ask questions in the Q&A section if they relate to Astronomy or Astrophysics, we have the Science and Technology forum for any others.

Science Fiction forums have several sub forums about science, astronomy and physics. One science fiction sub forum is not going to damage this forum in general. It probably damages something else that has nothing to do with the forums but everything with human nature...

TheHalcyonYear
2010-Apr-13, 10:45 PM
Science Fiction forums have several sub forums about science, astronomy and physics. One science fiction sub forum is not going to damage this forum in general. It probably damages something else that has nothing to do with the forums but everything with human nature...
On the other hand, if the members and management don't want it, why should there be one.

slang
2010-Apr-13, 10:53 PM
It probably damages something else that has nothing to do with the forums but everything with human nature...

What would that be?

R.A.F.
2010-Apr-15, 03:28 PM
There are too many sub-forums...no need to add more

JohnD
2010-Apr-18, 10:01 AM
Capt.Swoop, I fear you miss the point.
This IS an Astronomy board, and one for science and physics. As such, SF authors come here for advice based on the expertise of the users.
My suggestion was specificly for such a forum, as the ideas are on highly speculative, inevitably either ATM or way beyond today's science.
They are not seeking to discuss existing stories, so their posts are unsuitable for Small Media, and they are asking for advice, not chat, so also unsuitable for Off-Topic.

I think I see a need and a niche, but no species is compelled to evolve.

John

grapes
2010-Apr-18, 10:09 AM
Capt.Swoop, I fear you miss the point.
This IS an Astronomy board, and one for science and physics. As such, SF authors come here for advice based on the expertise of the users.
My suggestion was specificly for such a forum, as the ideas are on highly speculative, inevitably either ATM or way beyond today's science.You're probably missing the point too. :)

The BABB (and now the BAUT) didn't provide the ATM forums as a service, it was a way to manage the inevitable traffic that was attracted to science boards. But we're not actively trying, so far as I know, to attract anything other than science.

We also provide OTB for users to let off steam. :)

JohnD
2010-Apr-18, 02:25 PM
And Science Fiction is creating a traffic on the science boards.
The question is not, could an SF forum deal with those enquiries.
It is, are there enough to make it worth your while managing the traffic in that way.

John

HenrikOlsen
2010-Apr-18, 02:35 PM
And the answer has been given to you repeatedly.
No.

caveman1917
2010-Apr-18, 03:07 PM
It doesn't matter much to me either way.
But I for example came here because of the ATM module, and afterwards got interested/involved in the strict science fora with my ATM experience putting me on that path.
These kind of things can be good 'entry points' for people to get more involved in the main science purpose of this forum.
I'm sure there are many science fiction fans that are genuinely interested in the real science behind things, but just never got any real exposure to it.
I guess there might be "return on investement" by having such a section.

Just my 2 cents :)

grapes
2010-Apr-19, 12:37 PM
I'm sure there are many science fiction fans that are genuinely interested in the real science behind things, but just never got any real exposure to it.
Weird. I would've guessed just the opposite. I doubt there are many who haven't had a real exposure to it.

Luckmeister
2010-Apr-19, 05:23 PM
I'm sure there are many science fiction fans that are genuinely interested in the real science behind things, but just never got any real exposure to it.


Weird. I would've guessed just the opposite. I doubt there are many who haven't had a real exposure to it.

To me, if you're "genuinely interested" in real science, you find a way to get real exposure to it. Otherwise it's a passing interest that comes and goes with each sci-fi movie, book or conversation.

grapes
2010-Apr-19, 05:43 PM
But weren't we talking about science fiction authors, firstly?

Luckmeister
2010-Apr-19, 06:19 PM
Oops, yeah I guess so...sorry, I didn't notice.

Gillianren
2010-Apr-19, 08:47 PM
I just don't really see the need to segregate them. If we were specifically trying to draw in more sci-fi writers, that would be one thing. But Q&A suffices for, well, questions and answers. It doesn't really matter why the question is asked, I should think.

Swift
2010-Apr-19, 08:58 PM
But Q&A suffices for, well, questions and answers. It doesn't really matter why the question is asked, I should think.
My thoughts exactly.

Plus, it would mean one more forum I'd have to check out for questions I'm interested in (as a member) and problems I have to deal with (as a moderator).

captain swoop
2010-Apr-19, 09:10 PM
An ideal 'back door' for ATM claims.

01101001
2010-Apr-19, 09:53 PM
Still waiting for some proponent to demonstrate a need.


New Forum needed? "SF ideas"

R.A.F.
2010-Apr-19, 11:00 PM
To me, if you're "genuinely interested" in real science, you find a way to get real exposure to it.

Almost completely off topic but what the heck...

As a youngster, I had an almost insatiable desire for knowledge. As a result, my parents bought me a set of encyclopedias. I started at "A" and read through "Z".

...now I'm not saying that I read A through Z word for word, or that I even remember most of what I read, but it sure was a good place to start as far as "wanting to know" was concerned...

Aside...that memory is at least 50 years old...interesting that it left such a strong impression on me.

Hornblower
2010-Apr-19, 11:35 PM
I agree with the opinion that our Q&A is a good place for a would-be sci fi writer who wishes to stay reasonably close to mainstream physics and astronomy. I see no need for a separate forum.

tdvance
2010-Apr-20, 12:44 AM
I did approximately that as well---1976 editon of World Book, and I flipped through, read various articles and parts of long articles throughout. I actually remember some of it---that Cygnus-X1 might be a black hole (since confirmed) and that Barnard's Star may have a Jupiter-sized planet (since discredited--the astronomer had measured noise and thought it was signal), and that the galaxy has several hundred billion stars (it might be twice that, the number of hard-to-detect red dwarfs having been underestimated at the time). Favorite articles included Astronomy and Space Travel, but strangely, not Mathematics. Not that World Book could do the subject any justice---you have to go fairly deep before it really gets good.

Solfe
2010-Apr-20, 03:12 AM
Why couldn't there be a sticky or faq post with guidelines? Something like "On topic posts only - Space shuttles, ipods and penguins go under Science and Technology; Planets posts in Astronomy for this solar system or Q&A for the hypothetical or exo-planets" and so on.

I would prefer guidance to a location on the board. If the Sci-fi questions all land in one area, the most knowledgeable posters would likely not read these posts at all. That would leave me with only the opinion of other would-be-writers which defeats half the purpose of the board - stamping out bad astronomy. :)

As far as the back door ATM issue goes, it is usually pretty clear who is doing what. A good sign of a would-be-writer is a dozen posts before they come back, in fact you're lucky if the would-be-writer comes back once a day. ATM posters are more goal orientated and driven. They have a clock and a vested interest in clearing questions with lots of posts. I don't want to understate moderation issues, there are a few cases where people have (politely) said to me "Look, you just don't get it. Try this link..."; done wrong and the moderation team has some work to do. Sadly, many times writers do not deal with rejection well. :(

Solfe

<edited for typo.>

Gillianren
2010-Apr-20, 03:30 AM
Sadly, many times writers do not deal with rejection well.

If they're planning to submit for publication, they'd best get used to it!

Solfe
2010-Apr-20, 03:59 AM
True, very true. They still burn every time. :) However, now-a-days you can scrap the "get published" route and throw it on to a web page for a tiny bit of satisfaction.

Hornblower
2010-Apr-22, 10:27 PM
There is a thread called What would happen if the Earth cracked in Half...? in progress over in Q&A that has had several responses from knowledgeable people so far. It was started by a prospective story writer. It seems to be doing fine there. Why should it need a separate forum?