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parejkoj
2004-Mar-16, 04:40 PM
Hey ya'll. I'm thinking of getting the Babylon 5 DVDs, but they aren't cheap. Anyone here want to sell their copies?

And while we're at (and to get this on topic for this board), do they ever go into details about how the Jump Gates and Hyperspace work? I don't recall it, but I did miss several episodes. I have plenty of ideas though, but they are all semi-physics based speculation.

ToSeek
2004-Mar-16, 05:26 PM
I don't think it's ever explained, though it is stated that there's an unspoken agreement among parties not to destroy jumpgates because it can destabilize hyperspace or other jumpgates or whatever (whereupon someone starts doing just that). JMS focused on the characters, not the science, and rightly so, IMHO.

The Shade
2004-Mar-16, 05:28 PM
I don't have them, but check out ebay. I'm sure you'll find someone who's trying to part with theirs. Oh, and beware the bootlegs. Most of them are made in Hong Kong (HK). A good rule of thumb for spotting a bootleg on ebay: region 0 or region free, and chinese subtitles.

Good hunting!

daver
2004-Mar-16, 05:30 PM
And while we're at (and to get this on topic for this board), do they ever go into details about how the Jump Gates and Hyperspace work?
Not that I recall. I was kind of hoping that jump gates were the only way to go FTL--that the jump gates had to be placed by STL ships. However, from the show we see that there are special ships that are capable of generating their own jump points, but that this equipment tends to be large and bulky and power intensive.

parejkoj
2004-Mar-16, 05:39 PM
I don't think it's ever explained, though it is stated that there's an unspoken agreement among parties not to destroy jumpgates because it can destabilize hyperspace or other jumpgates or whatever (whereupon someone starts doing just that). JMS focused on the characters, not the science, and rightly so, IMHO.

Oh, I'm well aware of that, and I agree! :) However, since he did touch on some science bits, I'm curious if he ever went into this one. Hmm... I think I remember something about telepaths (excepting Lyta, after her "change") not being able to see very far through hyperspace. And the Shadows seem to live there, or somesuch. At least, you never see them opening a jump point.

Demigrog
2004-Mar-16, 07:13 PM
No true fan would part with the DVDs, and nobody but a true fan would have paid so much for them, so good luck. :)

I’ve never seen an official pseudoscientific explanation of B5’s hyperspace either, but I consider that a good thing as the series avoids a lot of trek-style technobabble.

Occasionally I work on writing a space strategy computer game loosely based on B5, and came up with a system for hyperspace. I assume that the jump points are simply holes between normal space and hyperspace. Real space and hyperspace coordinates are 1:1 related, but in Hyperspace the expansion of space is not uniform, so the observed distance between points is vastly different. The contraction and expansion of hyperspace is not related at all to real space, but rather some higher level of physical laws that nobody (except the first ones) understands.

Realspace distance can be covered quickly by going through “contracted” parts of hyperspace. Sometimes it is quicker to jump back to normal space to skip “expanded” parts of hyperspace. That is why it takes several jumps to get from Earth to B5, for example. Within hyperspace, navigation is difficult because the infinite variation of expanded and contracted space makes a straight-line course potentially take forever, and with no points of reference it is impossible to tell where you are going. Radio beacons at jump point locations allow ships to navigate because the beacon’s signal strength will be highest in the direction of the “shortest” path between the ship and the beacon. So long as the ship keeps going in the direction of the strongest signal, it will follow the quickest path to the destination jump point. The original gates didn’t have beacons, and nobody is sure how their creators navigated. Survey ships from Earth and other worlds occasionally find an ancient gate out in hyperspace (interestingly, the series never shows a physical gate on the Hyperspace side).

The hyperspace “topography” (but in four dimensions) includes semi-permanent features that define the “local” part of the galaxy, setting the stage for galactic politics and exploration. For the purposes of my game, I defined “the Rim” to be a sort of hyperspace embankment in 3D surrounding the local part of the galaxy (a “playground” for the younger races maybe?) that the First Ones eventually decided to explore past when they got bored with the local scenery. Nothing in the B5 story suggests that the Rim was a physical or hyperspace barrier, but it makes a game much more manageable. :)

Hyperspace also has currents somewhat like solar wind in real space, plus the occasional life forms (ie the ones in Crusade). The Shadows and Vorlons apparently knew how to “fold” hyperspace (which I interpret as creating pockets of contracted space surrounded by expanded space with only a few ways in or out.

Gee, I think I’ve spent too much time thinking about this…

Wingnut Ninja
2004-Mar-16, 09:28 PM
I was looking these up a few days ago and did a double take when I saw the price. $80 for a single season. Ouch. Firefly was $35 for the entire series. :)

parejkoj
2004-Mar-16, 10:28 PM
I was looking these up a few days ago and did a double take when I saw the price. $80 for a single season. Ouch. Firefly was $35 for the entire series. :)

Best price I've seen so far is ~$60 per season (for Bab5) somewhere on shopping.yahoo.com. And that includes legitimate copies on Ebay! Friggin... :evil:

Where did you see Firefly for $35? I might want to get that instead (never seen much Firefly, but I've heard plenty of good things about it). And wasn't it only 20ish episodes?

Demigrog: That was actually something like what I was thinking. Except, I see the 1:1 correspondence between real space and hyperspace as more like the way I see the Real number line vs. the (0,1) subset of it (to rather mangle some number theory for the moment). Each point in hyperspace has a corresponding point in realspace, but the points are "closer together." Thus, it takes less time to get from one to the other. But your idea may be a better one. But I really should not spend too much time thinking about it. I'd rather try my hand playing that game that you made: is it online anywhere, or could I borrow a copy/the source? :D

dgruss23
2004-Mar-16, 11:21 PM
I just bought B5 season 4 last night. I don't know if I'm going to buy season 5 when it comes out. They should've spent less time on the whole telepath situation and more time developing the drak story line. The only memorable episodes from season 5 were (1) the episode written from the perspective of the two maintenance crew workers and (2) the final episode - and I suppose those parts of episodes that further developed Londo's fate. The rest was disappointment.

Wingnut Ninja
2004-Mar-17, 01:07 AM
I was looking these up a few days ago and did a double take when I saw the price. $80 for a single season. Ouch. Firefly was $35 for the entire series. :)

Where did you see Firefly for $35? I might want to get that instead (never seen much Firefly, but I've heard plenty of good things about it). And wasn't it only 20ish episodes?


$35 at Amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000AQS0F/qid=1079485534/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-5643111-5725746?v=glance&s=dvd). Only 13 episodes, but they're all great.

ToSeek
2004-Mar-17, 02:15 AM
I just bought B5 season 4 last night. I don't know if I'm going to buy season 5 when it comes out. They should've spent less time on the whole telepath situation and more time developing the drak story line. The only memorable episodes from season 5 were (1) the episode written from the perspective of the two maintenance crew workers and (2) the final episode - and I suppose those parts of episodes that further developed Londo's fate. The rest was disappointment.

Well, the problem was that JMS didn't know if there was going to be a season 5, so he shoehorned most of the key plot conclusions into season 4. Then when season 5 did happen, the only major plot thread left was the telepath one.

As a result, seasons 3 and 4 are definitely the best.

JohnOwens
2004-Mar-17, 02:55 AM
The only memorable episodes from season 5 were (1) the episode written from the perspective of the two maintenance crew workers and (2) the final episode - and I suppose those parts of episodes that further developed Londo's fate. The rest was disappointment.

I think I'd include that "Day of the Dead" episode in there too, especially with Penn & Teller's appearance in it. :D But yeah, S5 was rather a letdown overall. :(

"Zooty! Zoot zoot!"

JohnOwens
2004-Mar-17, 03:02 AM
Oh, I'm well aware of that, and I agree! :) However, since he did touch on some science bits, I'm curious if he ever went into this one. Hmm... I think I remember something about telepaths (excepting Lyta, after her "change") not being able to see very far through hyperspace....

(very minor spoilers)

Actually, rather the opposite (assuming by "see" you're referring to telepathic abilities). Assuming that either Lyta or Bester was telling anything anywhere near the truth (which is a big "if"), their abilities were actually enhanced in hyperspace. For reference, I'm pretty sure "Ship of Tears" had Bester discussing this, and saying it's not something PsiCorps likes to let the mundanes in on, and Lyta when they saw Z'ha'dum destroyed (don't remember episode name offhand, but it would've been in the #412-418 range).

dgruss23
2004-Mar-17, 03:36 AM
ToSeek: Well, the problem was that JMS didn't know if there was going to be a season 5, so he shoehorned most of the key plot conclusions into season 4. Then when season 5 did happen, the only major plot thread left was the telepath one.

That was a mess at the end of season 4. It took months after the episode in which Sheridan was interrogated before they finally aired the last 4 episodes and on my local channel those episodes were shown at 2:00 am on a weeknight! :o

But regardless of his reasons, I think JMS would have been better off minimizing the whole telepath storyline and developing the Drak storyline more fully. Or even the final B5 movie with Sheridan "A call to Arms"?. I was hoping it would be about the final resolution to Londo's story and the Drak.

DataCable
2004-Mar-17, 05:44 AM
I think I remember something about telepaths (excepting Lyta, after her "change") not being able to see very far through hyperspace.
Quite the opposite, actually. Hyperspace amplifies telepaths' abilities... a fact the Psi Corps made a point of concealing, as it would lead to "teeps" being posted on front line combat vessels with the rest of the cannon fodder, something they saw as beneath them.


And the Shadows seem to live there, or somesuch. At least, you never see them opening a jump point.
I don't think it was ever established that they originated or primarily lived in hyperspace. The fluttery disolve effect applied to Shadow vessels (which I, as I'm sure many others, had originally assumed was a "cloak" of some sort) is their method of entering/exiting hyperspace.

Chip
2004-Mar-17, 06:05 AM
...do they ever go into details about how the Jump Gates and Hyperspace work?...

Not really, but a "history" of sorts is hinted at here and there during the course of the series. The original gates were created by an earlier shadowy race (not the Shadows) who departed and left the gates in space for a long while. The gates were later discovered by space explorers, (not humans - who are late comers.)

(We can assume that the gates are understood at least well enough to be maintained.)

When the Humans met the Centauri, the Centauri (as part of their fine huckster tradition) tried to convince the Humans that jump gate technology was a Centauri invention, which they'll gladly share - for a fee.

Ships that have their own built-in jump gate technology are initially used by very advanced civilizations (such as the Shadows) - but military secrets are fleeting when wars break out.

JohnOwens
2004-Mar-17, 06:27 AM
Not really, but a "history" of sorts is hinted at here and there during the course of the series. The original gates were created by an earlier shadowy race (not the Shadows) who departed and left the gates in space for a long while. The gates were later discovered by space explorers, (not humans - who are late comers.)

(We can assume that the gates are understood at least well enough to be maintained.)

Actually, in "A Distant Star", second or so episode of the second season, you might remember that mucking big "Explorer-class" ship Sheridan's friend captained? That was used for building and repairing jumpgates. Also, Sinclair's girlfriend (Katherine something? Or was that the pilot episode GF?) was told one of her earlier prospected planets was a good source of quantium-40, which was said to be used in jumpgate construction. So they're certainly understood better than that.
My own interpretation, without anything solid to back me up, was that the earlier races (Minbari-type earlier, not First One-type earlier) had found the ancient alien jumpgates, reverse-engineered them, and adapted the design to each race's own style, techniques, metric system, that kind of thing, and then they put new ones where they needed/wanted them, which would likely be all the usual gates we see during the course of the show (Thirdspace doesn't count as "usual" :wink: ).

Added: The Cortez, that was the name of the Explorer ship.

Iain Lambert
2004-Mar-17, 12:58 PM
Returning to the original question of getting a hold of them, if you're UK based you can get the first two series from Amazon.co.uk for £27 and £31.

tracer
2004-Mar-18, 02:45 AM
Anyone here want to sell their copies?
You can have my Babylon 5 DVDs when you pry them from my cold, dead fingers!

<*>

Wingnut Ninja
2004-Mar-18, 03:28 AM
Returning to the original question of getting a hold of them, if you're UK based you can get the first two series from Amazon.co.uk for £27 and £31.

Current exchange rate:

27.00 GBP = 49.2403 USD

Curse you, region 2 DVDs. That really, really ticks me off.

Iain Lambert
2004-Mar-18, 09:22 AM
That's only the first two seasons, though - Series 3 and 4 (not that 4 is even out for a few weeks yet here) are £39.99 each.

And our The Gathering and In The Beginning were on two seperate discs, each costing more than your combined release. But then I imported that anyway, so it doesn't really bother me.

Demigrog
2004-Mar-18, 04:06 PM
Anyone here want to sell their copies?
You can have my Babylon 5 DVDs when you pry them from my cold, dead fingers!

<*>

Better write them into your will, to avoid any unpleasant arguments between your survivors... I've caught my sister trying to swipe mine several times (perhaps as retaliation for my 5-year "borrowing" of her Dune books).

Gas Giant
2004-Mar-19, 11:47 AM
The fluttery disolve effect applied to Shadow vessels (which I, as I'm sure many others, had originally assumed was a "cloak" of some sort) is their method of entering/exiting hyperspace.
Yep, I thought that was a cloak at first. Then in the episode where they sparked off the Narn-Centauri war by destroying a Narn base (The Coming of Shadows?) we saw a Shadow vessel calmly cruising towards a large piece of debris, and shimmering out of view just before hitting it...

nebularain
2004-Mar-20, 07:17 PM
But regardless of his reasons, I think JMS would have been better off minimizing the whole telepath storyline and developing the Drak storyline more fully. Or even the final B5 movie with Sheridan "A call to Arms"?. I was hoping it would be about the final resolution to Londo's story and the Drak.

1) As I understand it, he had plans for a series on "the telepath war."

At the end of one of the episodes, I think after they pseudo-kicked out the Shadows and the Vorlons, either Sheridan or D'lenn(sp?) is reflecting on teh past mixed with what will be in the future - and there is mention of the war with the Drak and the war with the telepaths. I guess season 5 would have been a good prep for that.

There were some front there that never got resolved. (ie. dealing with Bestor - c'mon, I waited the whole season for him to get his just desserts - where was it???!!!)

2) Well, we already saw Londo's resolution with the Drak! D'lenn and the Sheridan-from-the-past are Centauri prisoners; Londo gets drunk to put the critter (guardian) to sleep so he can uncover the truth to them an pleads them to save his people; he sets them free; G'kar tries to choke Londo to death before the critter wakes up and alerts the drak to what he did; the guardian wakes up and makes Londo choke G'kar back; they kill each other; Vir takes the emporer's jewel. The End.

3) I agree, though, developing the Drak storyline overrall probably would have made the season more interesting.

pelzo63
2004-Mar-23, 11:30 AM
1) As I understand it, he had plans for a series on "the telepath war."

hello, i know i'm a newbie here, but i'm very well versed in babylon 5 :-) so here goes.

the "teep war" storyline is, to paraphrase JMS "being saved for a motion picture", that's not to say there IS a motion picture in the works, but he said if they get that lucky, the teep war is his story for such a film.

note: there IS a new B5 project in the works, an announcement from WB is expected around mid-may, the nature of the project is completely unknown, other than JMS has ruled out a few project types such as "book, comic, game" and others..



At the end of one of the episodes, I think after they pseudo-kicked out the Shadows and the Vorlons, either Sheridan or D'lenn(sp?) is reflecting on teh past mixed with what will be in the future - and there is mention of the war with the Drak and the war with the telepaths. I guess season 5 would have been a good prep for that.

Delenn. :-) the episode you may be thinking of is Deconstruction of Falling Stars, the final episode ofthe 4th season(but actually filmed as the first episode of the 5th season). with story segments set at 100 yrs, 500 yrs, 1000 yrs, and 1,000,000 yrs post B5 era. it provided a general outline of "what happens next" in the 100 yrs segment, some "talking heads" dissected the events on b5, and discussed how it caused fallout through the telepath war, and the drakh (correct spelling) conflict.



There were some front there that never got resolved. (ie. dealing with Bestor - c'mon, I waited the whole season for him to get his just desserts - where was it???!!!)

in the books. after the series, 9 very well done books were done, as 3 seperate "trilogies". one trilogy dealt with bester, and the psi corps. book 1 dealt with the first appearance of human teeps, and the birth of the psi corps. the second book dealt with young bester, up until he made his first arrival on the station. the 3rd book deals with garibaldi tracking bester down. the ending is very sweet(the teep war is skipped over in these books, when 3 starts, the teep war is already over). Book titles, 1 Dark Genesis: birth of the psi corps. 2 Deadly Relations: Bester Ascendant. and 3 Final Reckoning: The Fate of Bester. all by J Gregory Keyes, Outlines written in "heavy detail" by JMS himself, and considered anywhere from 90-100% canon(the parts "non canon" are things like minor quibbles with timing or dates, that don't effect the plotline or story, this applies to all 9 of the "trilogy" books)




2) Well, we already saw Londo's resolution with the Drak! D'lenn and the Sheridan-from-the-past are Centauri prisoners; Londo gets drunk to put the critter (guardian) to sleep so he can uncover the truth to them an pleads them to save his people; he sets them free; G'kar tries to choke Londo to death before the critter wakes up and alerts the drak to what he did; the guardian wakes up and makes Londo choke G'kar back; they kill each other; Vir takes the emporer's jewel. The End.

this story is the basis for the 2nd trilogy, the centauri trilogy. all titles "legions of fire book #" with subtitles. these books cover the 16 years between the 2nd to last episode of B5, and the time when g'kar and londo strangle each other. there is a LOT more going on than what we see on screen. these books are written by peter david, and most seem to feel they are the best at capturing the "mood and feel" of the tv show itself.

the third trilogy is called 'the passing of the technomages" and is concerned with the story of the technomages, whom we only saw in 1 episode of B5, and the tv movie A Call To Arms, and then on Crusade. this series is very dark, and personally my favorite, though it tends to stir up strong mixed feelings due to it's dark feel, and that it takes some of the "magic" away from teh TM's by showing some of their strings. written by Jeanne Cavelos

these trilogies should NOT be confused with the original 9 tie-in books which largely stunk(with 2, possibly 3 exceptions). those 9 were "franchise" books, just written by people not connected with the show(again, with 2 exceptions) for a quick buck, the 3 trilogies were writte based on detailed outlines by JMS, and are very well done.

for tons of info on the show, the Lurkers Guide is one of the best resources ever made for one specific show, and can be found at www.midwinter.com/lurk

and JMS himself posts messages to the moderated B5 newsgroup wwhich is linked on the lurkers guide.

and no, i'm not affiliated with the show in any way other than as a fan. :-)

HTH, anything else?

...Chris

Launch window
2008-Aug-26, 11:58 PM
Babylon 5 Creator Says No More Spin-offs

http://blogs.delphiforums.com/startreksfforum?entry=904

Noclevername
2008-Oct-07, 01:43 PM
And while we're at (and to get this on topic for this board), do they ever go into details about how the Jump Gates and Hyperspace work?

Sure. The ships go in one end, and out the other.