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cuboctahedron
2004-Mar-19, 07:22 PM
The following image:
http://www.esa.int/export/externals/images/ob_18_mesa_p.jpg

(look for the formation, and it's surroundings, on the upper left corner)

I wonder why this image is not displayed in Hoagland's archives.....

Anyhow what strikes me a bit is that the formation looks like as if they are the remains of some old establishment.

Is there any plausible reason on how it could have been formed?

greetings
Patrick

Daffy
2004-Mar-19, 07:55 PM
I posted this one a few week ago as well. There are those who are claiming it's a temple...with an underground entrance (maybe it's a Martian Mall with parking!). I don't buy it for a moment, but it is very cool looking!

dita
2004-Mar-19, 08:33 PM
Are there any other pics of this location? Do you think water could have formed this? It is amazing to look at and speculate :D

Daffy
2004-Mar-19, 08:38 PM
Are there any other pics of this location? Do you think water could have formed this? It is amazing to look at and speculate :D

It is fun...Cuboctahedron, do you know of any others? This is the only image I have been able to find.

Sedimentary rock worn down by wind, maybe? It resembles some of the rock formations off the 10 freeway between California and Arizona.

cuboctahedron
2004-Mar-19, 08:48 PM
No, It's the only image I can find so far.

For me the enigma is really the abundancy of square-patterns in the surroundings of the 'temple' like feature.

I dont't know of any wind/water erosion process that could account for it.

johnwitts
2004-Mar-19, 08:57 PM
Looks to me like ratty data has caused this area of the pic to become distorted. I'm assuming that this is a combination of altimeter/image mixed together. If so, that could cause the wierdness in the left if the pic.

SciFi Chick
2004-Mar-19, 09:03 PM
No, It's the only image I can find so far.

For me the enigma is really the abundancy of square-patterns in the surroundings of the 'temple' like feature.

I dont't know of any wind/water erosion process that could account for it.

Go to this thread (http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=10775&postdays=0&postorder=asc&sta rt=0), scroll down and look at the pictures of the Giants Causeway. It is not manmade.

cuboctahedron
2004-Mar-19, 09:04 PM
Looks to me like ratty data has caused this area of the pic to become distorted. I'm assuming that this is a combination of altimeter/image mixed together. If so, that could cause the wierdness in the left if the pic.

The wierdness you refer to would be applicable if an image would have an insufficient resolution or bad compression. (E.g. Hoagland sees anomalous objects which can be accounted purely due to the compression performed on the image). I don't think this image is the cause of bad mixture.

dita
2004-Mar-19, 09:07 PM
cuboctahedron,

What part of mars is this? Do you know? I want to see if I can find other pics in or around the area. I just want to see if it looks even remotely the same, which it more than likely won't.

cuboctahedron
2004-Mar-19, 09:17 PM
cuboctahedron,

What part of mars is this? Do you know? I want to see if I can find other pics in or around the area. I just want to see if it looks even remotely the same, which it more than likely won't.

It's Valles Marineris

Daffy
2004-Mar-19, 09:34 PM
cuboctahedron,

What part of mars is this? Do you know? I want to see if I can find other pics in or around the area. I just want to see if it looks even remotely the same, which it more than likely won't.

It's Valles Marineris

At the bottom or the rim?

cuboctahedron
2004-Mar-19, 09:54 PM
In addition, the square-patterned features also seem to appear in the button left part of the image (the boundary between upper-black and surface)

JohnOwens
2004-Mar-19, 11:05 PM
Looks to me like ratty data has caused this area of the pic to become distorted. I'm assuming that this is a combination of altimeter/image mixed together. If so, that could cause the wierdness in the left if the pic.
The wierdness you refer to would be applicable if an image would have an insufficient resolution or bad compression. (E.g. Hoagland sees anomalous objects which can be accounted purely due to the compression performed on the image). I don't think this image is the cause of bad mixture.
Nobody's suggesting it's the cause of bad mixture. Some might feel it's the result of bad mixture, though.

More significantly, though, remember that the altimeter and imaging scans don't necessarily share the same boundaries. Some areas might be very well photographed, but poorly height-mapped, and vice versa. If you try to map an image onto a 3-D map where it's rather rough, especially if you've tried to apply some rounding to the map so it doesn't look completely blocky, you might get something very like that bit of the image.

cuboctahedron
2004-Mar-19, 11:24 PM
Some areas might be very well photographed, but poorly height-mapped
How do you in such case account for the shadows shown, which matches the general light-source angle of the image? Errors in mapping wouldn't result in casting shadows that coherent.

TrAI
2004-Mar-19, 11:38 PM
Looks to me like ratty data has caused this area of the pic to become distorted. I'm assuming that this is a combination of altimeter/image mixed together. If so, that could cause the wierdness in the left if the pic.
The wierdness you refer to would be applicable if an image would have an insufficient resolution or bad compression. (E.g. Hoagland sees anomalous objects which can be accounted purely due to the compression performed on the image). I don't think this image is the cause of bad mixture.
Nobody's suggesting it's the cause of bad mixture. Some might feel it's the result of bad mixture, though.

More significantly, though, remember that the altimeter and imaging scans don't necessarily share the same boundaries. Some areas might be very well photographed, but poorly height-mapped, and vice versa. If you try to map an image onto a 3-D map where it's rather rough, especially if you've tried to apply some rounding to the map so it doesn't look completely blocky, you might get something very like that bit of the image.

Hmmm... The Mars Express uses the high resolution stereo camera to create the data for the picture generator software, doesn't it?. But it looks to me like that specific feature is a bit wrong, it may perhaps be due to lossy compression of the grayscale stereo pair used for the landscape modeler, the "staircase" like structure seems to indicate something like that. The color texture map seems to suffer from something like that at some places. I believe the system uses a form of JPEG compression on the images...

Rc2000
2004-Mar-21, 02:07 PM
Looks pixelated big time. the resolution must be low or they zoomed in too close maybe. If they did this like I do my 3D stuff, the terrain would be a 3D model and the actual image is mapped or 'projected' onto the model.
Below you can see the 'temple' and some other places on the map where this really shows up a lot.
Out of curiosity, I did a real close up of a horse I'm working on in 3D. You can really see the pixelating. The coloring for the horse is a Photoshop image and is mapped onto the 3D horse, much like they probably did with the Mars terrain here.

Rc

http://monsters4u3.com/rcart/ba/badmap.jpg

Lusion
2004-Mar-21, 06:49 PM
Something nobody has mentioned yet... doesn't it seem suspicious that the lines composing this temple structure seem to be parallel to the edges of the map itself? I know it's not conclusive, but to me this seems more suggestive that this is an artifact of the data.

TheAtomium
2004-Mar-21, 07:44 PM
As mentioned before, the reason for the artifacts is simply that this is a high-resolution texture mapped onto a low resolution heightmap. The artifacts are obvious in this case, because the polygons have been (strangely) flatshaded.

cuboctahedron, the reason the shadows dont show error is because they are part of the texture, they aren't rendered from the heightmap.

Chip
2004-Mar-21, 10:38 PM
I think its funny that woo-woo websites refer to the shapes they see on Mars or the Moon as "temples" or "pyramids" instead of "cafeterias" or "public restrooms." "Temples" has a more mystical quality, which is what they want to maintain. :D

Hamlet
2004-Mar-22, 12:19 AM
I think its funny that woo-woo websites refer to the shapes they see on Mars or the Moon as "temples" or "pyramids" instead of "cafeterias" or "public restrooms." "Temples" has a more mystical quality, which is what they want to maintain. :D

Very true! We never see garbage dumps, slums or industrial parks. :D

It's a bit like the reincarnation nonsense. Everyone was king, queen or some other nobility in their "past" life. Nobody ever claims to be a peasant or a prostitute.

Of course the rebuttal will be that these civiliazations were so advanced they didn't have a seamier side. :roll:

Tuckerfan
2004-Mar-22, 12:39 AM
Of course the rebuttal will be that these civiliazations were so advanced they didn't have a seamier side. :roll:And now you know why they died out! ;) Seriously, I find the giant black hole on the far right side of the image to be far more interesting. Looks like the gates of Hell if you ask me.

freddo
2004-Mar-22, 01:29 AM
Something nobody has mentioned yet... doesn't it seem suspicious that the lines composing this temple structure seem to be parallel to the edges of the map itself? I know it's not conclusive, but to me this seems more suggestive that this is an artifact of the data.

That's my line of thinking. Looks too much like a SimCity map for me...


I think its funny that woo-woo websites refer to the shapes they see on Mars or the Moon as "temples" or "pyramids" instead of "cafeterias" or "public restrooms." "Temples" has a more mystical quality, which is what they want to maintain.
To defend the woo-woos a titch, often these shapes don't look as much like bathhouses or restrooms than they do like poorly formed step pyramids and the like. But I do get your point.

DogB
2004-Mar-22, 03:05 AM
That's my line of thinking. Looks too much like a SimCity map for me...


Exactly what i was thinking.

Gotta get a life.....


P.

freddo
2004-Mar-22, 04:43 AM
Exactly what i was thinking.

Gotta get a life.....
P.

Hmm. I got a life, but the old one keeps popping up in this kind of manner.

aurora
2004-Mar-22, 05:40 PM
I think its funny that woo-woo websites refer to the shapes they see on Mars or the Moon as "temples" or "pyramids" instead of "cafeterias" or "public restrooms." "Temples" has a more mystical quality, which is what they want to maintain. :D

Neither roads nor trails. No farms or orchards or anything edible. No storage bins. No dwellings. No wells. No O2. No nitrogen.

But hey, they got temples! :roll:

ToSeek
2004-Mar-22, 06:12 PM
I think its funny that woo-woo websites refer to the shapes they see on Mars or the Moon as "temples" or "pyramids" instead of "cafeterias" or "public restrooms." "Temples" has a more mystical quality, which is what they want to maintain. :D

Neither roads nor trails. No farms or orchards or anything edible. No storage bins. No dwellings. No wells. No O2. No nitrogen.

But hey, they got temples! :roll:

Supposedly whenever archeologists can't decide on the purpose of an artifact, they conclude that it must be religious in nature. The hilarious Motel of the Mysteries (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0395284252/104-0713321-7672748?v=glance) is based on just that common practice.

Irishman
2004-Mar-22, 11:51 PM
Chip said:

I think its funny that woo-woo websites refer to the shapes they see on Mars or the Moon as "temples" or "pyramids" instead of "cafeterias" or "public restrooms." "Temples" has a more mystical quality, which is what they want to maintain.

Let's not go overboard here. The shapes in question resemble the Egyptian pyramids, or the Central and South American "Pyramids" which are temples. I think it is acceptable to describe these images by the Earth features that they most resemble, whether or not that says anything about the purpose they would be used for on Mars.

Dancar
2004-Mar-24, 09:48 PM
There are plenty of completely natural features like that in the American southwest, Monument Valley being especially well known.

Dancar

Swift
2004-Mar-24, 10:03 PM
I think its funny that woo-woo websites refer to the shapes they see on Mars or the Moon as "temples" or "pyramids" instead of "cafeterias" or "public restrooms." "Temples" has a more mystical quality, which is what they want to maintain. :D
So that's what they mean when they say "praying to the porcelein god". :D :oops: