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tommac
2010-May-12, 04:07 AM
Where do the lost atoms go when a bosenova happens?

Strange
2010-May-12, 08:32 AM
They have gone dancing. budum-tsh

Sorry. This is an interesting phenomenon; I hadn't heard of it before.

ETA: It seems that the articles I have found saying that the "missing" atoms are unexplained are all about 10 years old. A more recent article (http://anticrackpot.blogspot.com/2008/09/there-will-be-no-bose-novae-at-lhc.html) says that the phenomenon is now fulley understood. Although I haven't come across a nice simple description yet...

Schneibster
2010-May-12, 08:58 AM
Current experimental data: http://www.physorg.com/news171188983.html

There's an implication that this helps explain the bosenova phenomenon, but it looks like it might be hand-waving.

ETA: This (http://physics.aps.org/articles/v1/13) looks like a pretty good overview.

EATA:
In 1999, Randy Hulet’s group at Rice University showed [4] that a BEC with rotationally symmetric, attractive van der Waals interactions would first collapse on itself and then explode (a phenomenon whose likeness to supernova gave rise to the term “Bose-nova” [5]). The evolution is characterized by an isotropic implosion of the BEC, which is ultimately slowed down by three-body losses. The collapsing gas consists of three components: a remnant condensate that consists of multiple solitons [6], a burst of energetic atoms that are ejected from the condensate, and a certain fraction of atoms that escape due to energy losses in three-body collisions.Looks like they figured it out.

tommac
2010-May-12, 02:10 PM
What I found interesting is that the BEC implodes and shrinks beyond detection ( beofre the explosion where atoms are lost ).

If parallels are drawn to supernova, I wonder if this method could also produce black holes.

My initial thoughts were that maybe the missing atoms were from hawking radiation. the thought was that the BEC imploded to form a singularity, since the mass is so low the rate of HR would be extremely quick. In a frozen state maybe even quicker than the collapse of BEC ....

That all is probably super far fetched ... and now I realize that the amount of mass and energy we are talking about is very low ... I am not sure if there is even enough energy to for a BH of planck length.



Current experimental data: http://www.physorg.com/news171188983.html

There's an implication that this helps explain the bosenova phenomenon, but it looks like it might be hand-waving.

ETA: This (http://physics.aps.org/articles/v1/13) looks like a pretty good overview.

EATA: Looks like they figured it out.

ShinAce
2010-May-12, 04:43 PM
Assuming that a bose-einstein condensate matches a point particle, I'm thinking the necessary mass would be the planck mass.
2.17644(11)10−8 kg, (or 21.7644 g)

Thank you wiki!