PDA

View Full Version : What's the matter with the "Battle of Los Angeles"?



pvicente
2010-Jun-19, 12:59 PM
Hello, I was reading the thread about Roswell and I noticed a post with a list of UFO "evidence" with (among other things) the "Battle of Los Angeles".

And I'm curious, I read about it in the past and from what I remember it was a perfectly "normal" incident of wartime chaos and confusion, it's the middle of the night, you have nervous inexperienced troops, there is a false alarm, some guns start firing and others follow their lead. Some time after the shooting stops, cooler heads look at the incident more carefully and things will be more organized and less messy in the future.

Ok, that's what I remember, now my question is, how did UFOs ever came into the picture? I don't see anything here that requires aliens or spaceships to explain it, so why do people keep bringing this up as if it was some kind of "evidence" for UFOs?

gzhpcu
2010-Jun-19, 02:05 PM
Because many years later, ufologists began to spread the story. Similar to Roswell: the story comes to life many years later...

slang
2010-Jun-19, 02:29 PM
Mentioned a couple of times (http://www.google.nl/search?q=site%3Abautforum.com+Battle+of+Los+Angele s) before, on BAUT, for your reading enjoyment. Or annoyance.

Soulless49er
2010-Jun-19, 07:38 PM
I think it's more the photos that were taken of the 'Battle of LA' which led some people to think it was a flying saucer in the sky. Look at this photo:

http://www.sott.net/image/image/1392/laUFO_enhanced_and_framed.jpg

Soulless49er
2010-Jun-19, 08:01 PM
A poster on Above Top Secret with an alias of 'WitnessFromAfar' did an extremely rigorous investigation of the 'Battle of LA.' He went and did his own independent investigation and must have spent months even years trying to determine what happened, and he posted his steps of the investigation in an AboveTopSecret forum. Here is a link to his investigation: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread329188/pg1

The thread is around 30 pages, so I'll warn you it's super long and will take hours to go through.

caveman1917
2010-Jun-19, 09:03 PM
For reference, this is the introducing paragraph:


First and foremost, I have a {THEORY} that the 'Battle of Los Angeles', once properly investigated, will provide everyone with at least ONE case of a truly Unidentified Flying Object, where the most likely explanation that fits the given evidence is that it was a vessel from somewhere outside of Earth.



A poster on Above Top Secret with an alias of 'WitnessFromAfar' did an extremely rigorous investigation of the 'Battle of LA.' He went and did his own independent investigation and must have spent months even years trying to determine what happened, and he posted his steps of the investigation in an AboveTopSecret forum. Here is a link to his investigation: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread329188/pg1

The thread is around 30 pages, so I'll warn you it's super long and will take hours to go through.

Sam5
2010-Jun-20, 02:18 AM
I think it's more the photos that were taken of the 'Battle of LA' which led some people to think it was a flying saucer in the sky.

The term “flying saucer” never came into anyone’s vocabulary until Frank Arnold was asked by a reporter in 1947 how the aircraft that he saw looked while they were flying.

He said they looked like they sort of dipped up and down, as if you skipped a saucer across a pond. In the old days we used flat rocks, not saucers. Most people couldn’t afford to throw their saucers away in a lake.

Reporters trying to come up with a short catchy headline said that Frank Arnold saw “Flying Saucers”.

What he actually said the objects looked like were “pies” with a big slice cut out of them. So the headlines SHOULD have said that Frank Arnold saw “Flying Pies”.

And today, people would be going out at night looking for “Flying Pies”, rather than “Flying Saucers”.

01101001
2010-Jun-20, 03:47 AM
And today, people would be going out at night looking for “Flying Pies”, rather than “Flying Saucers”.

Aha. That brings us right back around to Hollywood because who made better use of flying pies than the movie industry?

Soulless49er
2010-Jun-20, 05:34 AM
The term “flying saucer” never came into anyone’s vocabulary until Frank Arnold was asked by a reporter in 1947 how the aircraft that he saw looked while they were flying.

He said they looked like they sort of dipped up and down, as if you skipped a saucer across a pond. In the old days we used flat rocks, not saucers. Most people couldn’t afford to throw their saucers away in a lake.

Reporters trying to come up with a short catchy headline said that Frank Arnold saw “Flying Saucers”.

What he actually said the objects looked like were “pies” with a big slice cut out of them. So the headlines SHOULD have said that Frank Arnold saw “Flying Pies”.

And today, people would be going out at night looking for “Flying Pies”, rather than “Flying Saucers”.


UFO witnesses have claimed to see all sorts of geometric shapes from flying saucers, pies as you mentioned, triangles, tear-dropped shape objects, pentagons, hexagons, balls, and some sightings have described shapeless craft.

It may be that ET ships have a wide variety of shapes and sizes due to the way they want them to look and their specific function. Obviously, an ET civilization will have different tastes for how their craft will appear. There have been sightings of pyramid shaped crafts seen over the Great Pyramids in Egypt, it may be ET thought they could impress us with how they can imitate our structural shapes. Being that the US has the Pentagon as one of it's central buildings, we may one day see more Pentagon shaped crafts sighted in the US.

Van Rijn
2010-Jun-20, 06:10 AM
UFO witnesses have claimed to see all sorts of geometric shapes from flying saucers, pies as you mentioned, triangles, tear-dropped shape objects, pentagons, hexagons, balls, and some sightings have described shapeless craft.

It may be that ET ships have a wide variety of shapes and sizes due to the way they want them to look and their specific function.


Or that there aren't any ET ships at all, but these are things people come up with when they see a grouping of lights in a dark sky (which can have a variety of mundane causes), groups of birds, interestingly shaped clouds, etc.

Van Rijn
2010-Jun-20, 06:28 AM
There have been sightings of pyramid shaped crafts seen over the Great Pyramids in Egypt, it may be ET thought they could impress us with how they can imitate our structural shapes.


I don't find that impressive at all. Rather, it makes me think that there is no ET spacecraft involved, but this is simply the sort of thing people would be more likely to come up with near the Great Pyramids. And, of course, pyramids are simple geometric shapes anyway, so it doesn't take much for people to assume pyramids.

An ET spacecraft wouldn't need to assume shapes to be impressive. All it would need to do is land the Great Pyramids (or wherever) and let people establish beyond doubt that it exists.

Gillianren
2010-Jun-20, 07:02 AM
Aha. That brings us right back around to Hollywood because who made better use of flying pies than the movie industry?

Vaudeville?

Paul Beardsley
2010-Jun-20, 07:12 AM
An ET spacecraft wouldn't need to assume shapes to be impressive. All it would need to do is land the Great Pyramids (or wherever) and let people establish beyond doubt that it exists.

It's astonishing how many UFO enthusiasts don't get this.

gzhpcu
2010-Jun-20, 07:40 AM
It all goes under the motto, "I want to believe..."...

Soulless49er
2010-Jun-20, 07:45 AM
UFO witnesses have claimed to see all sorts of geometric shapes from flying saucers, pies as you mentioned, triangles, tear-dropped shape objects, pentagons, hexagons, balls, and some sightings have described shapeless craft.

It may be that ET ships have a wide variety of shapes and sizes due to the way they want them to look and their specific function. Obviously, an ET civilization will have different tastes for how their craft will appear. There have been sightings of pyramid shaped crafts seen over the Great Pyramids in Egypt, it may be ET thought they could impress us with how they can imitate our structural shapes. Being that the US has the Pentagon as one of it's central buildings, we may one day see more Pentagon shaped crafts sighted in the US.

I was trying to be humorous and make a parody with this post. Being I was taken seriously, I guess I failed at being facetious. Still, my point is UFOs really can appear as different shapes other than a saucer. Some of the strangest UFO cases like JAL 1628 or the Dechmont Woods Encounter were not described as flying saucers.

eburacum45
2010-Jun-20, 09:26 AM
To recap on the Battle of Los Angeles photo; there is no proof that the photo was even taken at the time, rather than mocked up afterwards in a photographer's dark room. Attempts to match the position of the lights to known seachlight batteries were less than satisfactory. In addition the lights all reach the 'object' then stop; if it were a real saucer-shaped craft the lights would pass beyond the 'object' and iluminate the sky.

There are two plausible options; the photo was a post-hoc mock-up, or it was a photo of a cloud partly illuminated by searchlights which blocked all light from passing through. The cloud itself may have been entirely caused by the smoke from exploding AA shells.

Tedward
2010-Jun-20, 10:06 AM
UFO witnesses have claimed to see all sorts of geometric shapes from flying saucers, pies as you mentioned, triangles, tear-dropped shape objects, pentagons, hexagons, balls, and some sightings have described shapeless craft.

It may be that ET ships have a wide variety of shapes and sizes due to the way they want them to look and their specific function. Obviously, an ET civilization will have different tastes for how their craft will appear. There have been sightings of pyramid shaped crafts seen over the Great Pyramids in Egypt, it may be ET thought they could impress us with how they can imitate our structural shapes. Being that the US has the Pentagon as one of it's central buildings, we may one day see more Pentagon shaped crafts sighted in the US.

Shapes are interesting in a way. How many people are pre disposed to a shape and a theme? How many peoples brains are wired to pick up on a certain shape? We know people are hard wired for certain objects like people, peoples faces, possible predators etc, evolution and all that. So why not investigate this pre disposition (or what appears to be) when someone says I saw a triangle or I saw cigar or I am not sure what it was. The human eye and brain are at times easily befuddled.

On shapes and et. In the 80's many cars (European) had a similar shape. But I believe that that was down software and aerodynamics? Looking for the best MPG. So many had similar lines. Now, for space you need look no further than the Apollo landers. Function not form, not meant to please the eye but operate in space. I would have thought that all these aliens would work out a shape best suited for an atmosphere. Thing is for me all the different shapes fly in the face of there being aliens.

And here is why. Forget star wars type star ships for the bits in between planets. I would expect them to be like the moon lander. Functional. So for me (for the ET sightings to be real) the alien has to have a big ship cos they send down smaller ships. These smaller ships are streamlined according to all the witnesses hence it would be my assumption there are bigger ones up there (OK said that in the last sentence but hey ho). Next, they say they may have technologies that allow silly maneuvers. Then why the streamlining? They could use the Apollo lander idea that is functionality and bring it down.

Then there is the variety of shapes. That would to me, IF it were true, indicate shed loads of big ships that we have never seen. But then back to the 80's car second para up, why the variety of shapes? You go to a strange planet, you go armed to deal with an atmosphere. Atmosphere, we use planes to fly in. OK, we use the wings for lift and engines for forward movement and in a simpler form, a glider. I would not expect to deal with Mars any differently should we go there, atmosphere is different but then the lift and engine but I would see wings and an engine (s).

Or maybe people are seeing planes but the brain that wants to see triangles will report that? Or maybe the brain is reporting shapes when there are none anyway.

So you see, holes start to appear for me.

Sorry for the disjointed ramble, not as short as I meant it.

Sam5
2010-Jun-20, 12:22 PM
UFO witnesses have claimed to see all sorts of geometric shapes from flying saucers, pies as you mentioned, triangles, tear-dropped shape objects, pentagons, hexagons, balls, and some sightings have described shapeless craft.


Well, I just don’t believe in flying pies or flying balls or other flying objects from “outer space”. But I do believe in fairies an nixies. These are the wee ones who hide my car keys when my back is turned. I hear them scampering around, so I know they exist. I place my car keys on my desk and then I go into another room, and while I’m gone they hide my keys. So I have to search all over the house. Sometimes they put my keys right back where I left them, and I finally find them. These are the same creatures that sometimes put one blue sock into my sock drawer. I haven’t bought any blue socks since 1964, but the wee ones play tricks on me and bring in one blue sock and put it in my sock drawer.

pvicente
2010-Jun-20, 02:57 PM
Ok, I had a look at the photo, what about it?
All I see is some kind of "blob" (and that's with some effort) in the middle of the searchlights, with more effort, editing and imagination you might get the shape one the yellow rectangle, something more or less "saucer-ish", it's like those clouds that you can turn into an animal or a house or a boat in your mind if you look at it the right way.
It definitely isn't a convincing photo of an alien spaceship, and that leaves with another couple of questions...
Was it supposed to be convincing? Is the rest of the other "evidence" for UFOs in this incident as bad as this?

Gillianren
2010-Jun-20, 04:26 PM
Is the rest of the other "evidence" for UFOs in this incident as bad as this?

No; some of it is worse.

Soulless49er
2010-Jun-20, 07:13 PM
Well, I just don’t believe in flying pies or flying balls or other flying objects from “outer space”. But I do believe in fairies an nixies. These are the wee ones who hide my car keys when my back is turned. I hear them scampering around, so I know they exist. I place my car keys on my desk and then I go into another room, and while I’m gone they hide my keys. So I have to search all over the house. Sometimes they put my keys right back where I left them, and I finally find them. These are the same creatures that sometimes put one blue sock into my sock drawer. I haven’t bought any blue socks since 1964, but the wee ones play tricks on me and bring in one blue sock and put it in my sock drawer.

Funny and amusing, but I don't see how aliens can be equated with believing in fairies. Fairies and nixies are clearly fictional since their origin is from fairy tales. They cannot exist. Intelligent aliens from other worlds, on the other hand, almost certainly exist somewhere out there, it's just a question of whether or not they have ever found the location of our planet and sent craft or probes or whatever they have.

JustAFriend
2010-Jun-20, 07:34 PM
Probably closer to the truth of what really happened: watch John Bellushi in Speilberg's "1941"

;-)

Sam5
2010-Jun-20, 08:16 PM
Funny and amusing, but I don't see how aliens can be equated with believing in fairies. Fairies and nixies are clearly fictional since their origin is from fairy tales. They cannot exist. Intelligent aliens from other worlds, on the other hand, almost certainly exist somewhere out there, it's just a question of whether or not they have ever found the location of our planet and sent craft or probes or whatever they have.

I mentioned the fairies for several reasons. One reason was to point out that people have believed in un-seen intelligent beings all through world history. People in past centuries even believed in creature-abductions of humans. So nothing about this is new.

In fact, you can read page 169 of Thomas Dick’s “A Future State”, from 1854, and read the same thing about intelligent beings from other parts of the universe visiting the earth and other planets. This is no new story. This is not the result of any new “visitations”. And in fact, these same stories can be found in several ancient books:

Go to this link, type in page 169, then hit “Enter”. Read the second paragraph down:

http://books.google.com/books?id=EGsNAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=a+future+state&hl=en&ei=V3MeTNG-EoqgnwfquaTnAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCUQ6AEwAA#

”It is highly probable, that, in the future world, a considerable portion of our knowledge respecting the distant provinces of the Divine empire, will be communicated by superior beings who have visited the different systems dispersed through the universe, and have acquired information respecting their history, and their physical and moral scenery.

We learn from Scripture, that there are intelligences who can wing their way, in a short period of time, from one world to another. Such beings, in the course of a thousand centuries, must have made many extensive tours through the regions of creation, and acquired a comprehensive knowledge of the most striking scenes which the universe displays.

And, since they have occasionally mingled in the society of men, and communicated intelligence from heaven to earth, it is reasonable to believe, that they will have more frequent intercourse with redeemed men in a future state, and communicate the discoveries they have made respecting the economy and grandeur of God's universal empire.”

kleindoofy
2010-Jun-20, 08:33 PM
I think it's more the photos that were taken of the 'Battle of LA' which led some people to think it was a flying saucer in the sky. ...
False causality.

What led some people to interpret the photos in such a way that they came to think it was a flying saucer in the sky was sheer and utter stupidity.

eburacum45
2010-Jun-20, 10:53 PM
This is no new story. This is not the result of any new “visitations”. And in fact, these same stories can be found in several ancient books:
And there was no (and is no) physical evidence of it actually happening in those days, and there is still no evidence of it happening today; just stories we like to tell each other.

HenrikOlsen
2010-Jun-21, 12:27 PM
There have been sightings of pyramid shaped crafts seen over the Great Pyramids in Egypt, it may be ET thought they could impress us with how they can imitate our structural shapes. Being that the US has the Pentagon as one of it's central buildings, we may one day see more Pentagon shaped crafts sighted in the US.
I don't find that impressive at all. Rather, it makes me think that there is no ET spacecraft involved, but this is simply the sort of thing people would be more likely to come up with near the Great Pyramids. And, of course, pyramids are simple geometric shapes anyway, so it doesn't take much for people to assume pyramids.
I'd say it sounds like they saw Fata Morgana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fata_Morgana_(mirage)).
It would have been far more impressive if what was seen hadn't been a copy of that underneath because that would need something other than a well known optical phenomenon.

Paul Lyon
2010-Jun-21, 08:29 PM
In fact, there is no evidence whatsoever that the LA aircraft was (or were) considered UFO: they were understood by everyone on the ground to be Japanese planes. No one would have tossed that much flak up there under the impression that it might be a visitor from another planet or a lost civilian plane, or one of our own military craft. No downed planes were recovered, though a story surfaces years later that a crashed UFO was recovered in San Bernardino (along a potential flightpath from LA).

Nerves were wound tightly in California at the time; this was the time of the shameful Japanese American Internment and a couple of actual, well-documented Japanese attacks on the coast. One Japanese plan being kicked around by their leaders was to invade the West Coast, although that would have come at Seattle most probably. LA was armed to the teeth and ready for action, as the Battle of LA demonstrates.

No witnesses claimed that what they were shooting at was a UFO. What they said was that they couldn't understand how any aircraft could have survived the artillery barrage, and that a large airplane seemed to be moving remarkably slowly-- just the opposite of the skittish little critters reported through the 1940s.

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn79/PJLyon/miscellaneous/a39_040.jpg

captain swoop
2010-Jun-21, 09:23 PM
They can only visit when certain stars are above the horizon.

pvicente
2010-Jun-21, 11:53 PM
A poster on Above Top Secret with an alias of 'WitnessFromAfar' did an extremely rigorous investigation of the 'Battle of LA.' He went and did his own independent investigation and must have spent months even years trying to determine what happened, and he posted his steps of the investigation in an AboveTopSecret forum. Here is a link to his investigation: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread329188/pg1

The thread is around 30 pages, so I'll warn you it's super long and will take hours to go through.

I had a quick look and it doesn't look very good so far, a lot of people seem to start convinced that the guns must have been shooting at something, and that they should have hit something.

That seems wrong, it's the middle of the night and people are nervous, it seems very likely that some of them will start shooting just because the others are, actually some might even shoot just to make people feel that something is being done about the alert.

It looks like you read that thread already so could you please tell if the conclusions of that investigation take this factor into account?
Or even better, share with us what makes that investigation interesting to you, what makes you think that it can give a good explanation for the incident.

Lorrac
2010-Jun-25, 12:59 AM
They can only visit when certain stars are above the horizon.

Some of them play flutes and other wind instruments.

vonmazur
2010-Jul-02, 03:50 PM
Probably closer to the truth of what really happened: watch John Bellushi in Speilberg's "1941"

;-)

Actually the Japanese Sailor had the best view of the whole thing....."Horrywood!"

Dale