PDA

View Full Version : A most likely repeat of multiple previous topics. But 2012 fear none-the-less.



Navalius
2010-Jul-06, 08:43 AM
I understand that this question probably has been asked and answered a million times before. In that case you can just point me to the topics that already exist that are relevant to this one :).

But 2012 Meteorite impacts? And I apologize if theres a huge difference between meteorite/asteroid/comet I'm a tad new to astrology. So big thing hitting earth in 2012?

I bring this up because I saw a rather annoying, badly placed and, um, ironic banner add on the Universe Today website while checking out the 'No Doomsday in 2012' article, suggesting big thing hitting earth in 2012. Naturally, thanks to OCD, I panicked, then calmed, then went to bed.

Swift
2010-Jul-06, 01:12 PM
Actually, among the crazy ideas I've heard about 2012, I hadn't heard of any predictions of meteor impacts. Most of the crazy ideas revolve around either giant planets/Brown Dwarfs running through the solar system, or nonsense about the "galactic alignment". Maybe you could link to the ad.

Depending upon the size of the meteor, asteroid or comet (and yes there are differences), anything really big and likely to hit Earth in a year or so, would have almost certainly been spotted by now. Certainly the Mayans (the unintentional source of all this nonsense) would not have known anything about such an object a few thousand years ago.

And just for your information, a bigger mix-up than meteorite/asteroid/comet is to mix-up astrology and astronomy. Astronomy is what serious professionals and amateurs do when they study the stars and planets. Astrology is what is done to try to separate people from their money (IMHO).

01101001
2010-Jul-06, 02:17 PM
Welcome.


I understand that this question probably has been asked and answered a million times before.

Maybe around 100. (I may supply the citations to most if this thread goes very long, and becomes a likely destination for those searching for information. For now, I'll just link to the latest topic that got a copy of the list (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php/98656-2012-War-for-Souls?p=1650390&highlight=2012#post1650390). This isn't for Navalius who may have seen it, but for others who might arrive in via search engine or other means.)


In that case you can just point me to the topics that already exist that are relevant to this one :).

It's hard for me to pick out one topic that may address your concerns, because I don't understand yours well. I don't recall anyone claiming a meteor threat. I advise you to find that list I just linked to and seek out your own reassuring data on that or other similar scary, but unsupported, claims about stuff impacting Earth. There are plenty of instances of unsubstantiated claims of larger bodies dropping in for a visit.


But 2012 Meteorite impacts? And I apologize if theres a huge difference between meteorite/asteroid/comet I'm a tad new to astrology. So big thing hitting earth in 2012?

I bring this up because I saw a rather annoying, badly placed and, um, ironic banner add on the Universe Today website while checking out the 'No Doomsday in 2012' article, suggesting big thing hitting earth in 2012. Naturally, thanks to OCD, I panicked, then calmed, then went to bed.

Nobody knows what 2012 will bring for sure, but nobody has persuasive evidence that it will be a fearful year astronomically. Don't worry.

The Universe Today "No Doomsday" article has credibility. Don't believe the linked-in material in the ads, which came from someone willing to spend money to attract eyeballs to their doomsday site. They are selling misinformation.

Sam5
2010-Jul-06, 04:42 PM
I bring this up because I saw a rather annoying, badly placed and, um, ironic banner add on the Universe Today website while checking out the 'No Doomsday in 2012' article, suggesting big thing hitting earth in 2012. Naturally, thanks to OCD, I panicked, then calmed, then went to bed.

I talked to a lot of Mayans in Yucatan during my vacation in 1964, and none of them mentioned the world ending in 2012. I returned in the late ‘70s, and again in the early ‘80s, and I talked with more Mayans in both Yucatan and Campeche, both at Uxmal and Chichen Itza. But none mentioned anything at all about the world “ending”.

This is basically one of the more common internet hoaxes, and if you stay on the internet enough, you’ll find that when one “prediction” date about the “end of the world” comes, passes, and goes, with no end of the world, some new hoax will take it’s place.

I have two books published in the late 19th Century saying that the world would end before the year 1900. So these beliefs and hoaxes are not new.

NEOWatcher
2010-Jul-06, 05:11 PM
I have two books published in the late 19th Century...
How old did you say you were? :lol:
Oh; never mind...

Gillianren
2010-Jul-06, 05:18 PM
I talked to a lot of Mayans in Yucatan during my vacation in 1964, and none of them mentioned the world ending in 2012. I returned in the late ‘70s, and again in the early ‘80s, and I talked with more Mayans in both Yucatan and Campeche, both at Uxmal and Chichen Itza. But none mentioned anything at all about the world “ending”.

I'm not saying they believe it, but I'm not sure that's a convincing argument that they don't. How would you have expected them to mention it?

Sam5
2010-Jul-06, 05:35 PM
I'm not saying they believe it, but I'm not sure that's a convincing argument that they don't. How would you have expected them to mention it?

Well, plenty of preachers during my lifetime have been predicting “the end is near”, yet they usually don’t give any specific dates. I would think that if one particular Indian tribe in all the world had some knowledge of the world ending within the next 30 to 40 years, they would have said something about it when I visited them several times, and some of the Spanish speakers in Yucatan and Campeche would have mentioned it to me.

This “end of the world” fear was a well-known and wide-spread concern among some people when I was a kid growing up. Folk songs were written about it back in the 1920s and ‘30s, although no specific dates were given.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxo-zayI6tE

In the late 1970s, I spent an evening out drinking with one young Mayan man I met at the Hertz car rental counter at the airport in Merida, and I happened to run into him in the town plaza in Merida the next evening, so we had a few drinks and we talked about lots of things, but he never mentioned anything about the “end of the world”.

He told me he planned to travel to the United States, specifically to San Francisco, and he asked me about the crime rate there. I told him I had lived in San Francisco for several years and the crime rate was high. We discussed the murder rate in the state of Yucatan, and he told me there had been one murder there about 10 years earlier.

Seems to me if he had some well-known Mayan knowledge about the “end of the world” coming up within the next 35 years, he would have mentioned it to me.

My point is, the Mayans knew nothing of this internet hoax, since it wasn’t a hoax back then, and I can’t find it mentioned in any of my old Mayan archaeology books from the 1960s through the ‘80s.

Gillianren
2010-Jul-06, 06:15 PM
I'm sorry; I don't find that a convincing argument that random Mayans would tell you they believed the End of the World Was Nigh. The reason preachers tell you is so that you can repent and attain the Kingdom of Heaven. Since I'm pretty sure the Maya don't have an equivalent, and theoretically it would be unstoppable, why bother telling you?

Again, I know they don't believe it. I'm saying your argument wouldn't convince anyone who believes they do.

Sam5
2010-Jul-06, 06:41 PM
I'm sorry; I don't find that a convincing argument that random Mayans would tell you they believed the End of the World Was Nigh. The reason preachers tell you is so that you can repent and attain the Kingdom of Heaven. Since I'm pretty sure the Maya don't have an equivalent, and theoretically it would be unstoppable, why bother telling you?

Again, I know they don't believe it. I'm saying your argument wouldn't convince anyone who believes they do.

Quite a lot of them in Mexico are Catholics. I’ve been to mass at a few Mexican churches, and the priests never mentioned anything about this non-existent “Mayan prediction”.

There is nothing that will convince anyone who wants to believe this hoax strongly enough. Even when the year 2013 rolls around, and 2014, many of them will still believe it, and they will be convinced that their concern, or their “prayers”, or their this-or-that somehow “prevented it” or “postponed it”. Then they will go on to the next popular-hoax “end time” date and start talking about that one.

But there are some young people who are new to internet hoaxes, who will read what I say, and they will understand what I’m talking about.

I think it is much better to tell a newbie right out that this is a “hoax”, and that it’s not scientifically based. Since I’ve had a number of conversations with real Mayans, going back nearly 50 years, and I’ve read a number of Mayan archaeology books that discussed their calendar, and those Mayans I met and those books didn’t mention this “end time” hoax, I think it is a good idea to tell newbies that.

Seems that it doesn’t even occur to a lot of newbies simply to fly down to Yucatan, Quintana Roo, or Guatemala, on a vacation trip, and go around asking real Mayans about this. For example, business investors are still planning the construction of hotels at Cancun, and they won’t be completed until after 2012, and if they’ve heard about this hoax at all, they would probably find it to be funny.

kleindoofy
2010-Jul-06, 07:40 PM
... I saw a rather annoying, badly placed and, um, ironic banner add ... suggesting big thing hitting earth in 2012. ... I panicked, then calmed, then went to bed.
If indeed some object large enough to do us harm were hurdling towards earth, I think we can assume that our primary source for information about it would not be a banner add on a website.

astromark
2010-Jul-06, 09:29 PM
IF there were a object moving through this Solar system that had sufficant mass to disrupt and otherwise cause us some inconvenience...
Where is it now ? ...
There are some questions about this object we do not seem to have answers for.
Like where is it now and how big is it and why we have no knowledge of it yet.
Where is the hard evidence that this subject is based on... ?
What Mayan calender ?
Find and discuss with the native race that has made this claim ?
Is it based on any actual information attained. ?
According to who's interpretations is this wild assertion made ?

I suspect a tabloid paper or magazine responsible for the whole none issue... Just to sell copy.

Look at what you are being told... by ALL of us here... THERE IS NOTHING TO THIS.

Gillianren
2010-Jul-06, 09:38 PM
Seems that it doesn’t even occur to a lot of newbies simply to fly down to Yucatan, Quintana Roo, or Guatemala, on a vacation trip, and go around asking real Mayans about this.

How many of them do you think can afford the trip? I certainly can't.

Ken G
2010-Jul-06, 09:46 PM
I think it is much better to tell a newbie right out that this is a “hoax”, and that it’s not scientifically based. Since I’ve had a number of conversations with real Mayans, going back nearly 50 years, and I’ve read a number of Mayan archaeology books that discussed their calendar, and those Mayans I met and those books didn’t mention this “end time” hoax, I think it is a good idea to tell newbies that.I agree-- it's significant that the Mayans themselves don't know a thing about this hoax that is attributed to them. I think that is rather common with such hoaxes, and is a good way to expose them. There's probably a whole class of hoaxes that play on the idea that some little-known group of people have access to some hidden knowledge, and the hoaxster is "spreading the word" about the hidden knowledge, only trouble is, they are counting on the anonymity of the little-known group-- who know nothing of it and would never corroborate it. Granted, one might claim that the ancient Mayans had the hidden knowledge, whereas the modern ones have lost that knowledge, but that still requires that the hoaxster has access to ancient Mayan knowledge that modern Mayans do not, and it helps expose the charlatanism involved to those who need that insight into charlatanism.

Gillianren
2010-Jul-06, 10:29 PM
Sure, it's significant. But the fact that they didn't go out of their way to mention the end of the world to someone isn't.

kleindoofy
2010-Jul-06, 10:38 PM
... I suspect a tabloid paper or magazine responsible for the whole none issue... Just to sell copy. ...
It would be nice if it were true, but I'm afraid this issue is a case of human stupidity and not of human greed, at least in its inception.

Sam5
2010-Jul-06, 10:55 PM
I agree-- it's significant that the Mayans themselves don't know a thing about this hoax that is attributed to them. I think that is rather common with such hoaxes, and is a good way to expose them. There's probably a whole class of hoaxes that play on the idea that some little-known group of people have access to some hidden knowledge, and the hoaxster is "spreading the word" about the hidden knowledge, only trouble is, they are counting on the anonymity of the little-known group-- who know nothing of it and would never corroborate it. Granted, one might claim that the ancient Mayans had the hidden knowledge, whereas the modern ones have lost that knowledge, but that still requires that the hoaxster has access to ancient Mayan knowledge that modern Mayans do not, and it helps expose the charlatanism involved to those who need that insight into charlatanism.

I agree.

Noclevername
2010-Jul-07, 03:34 AM
IIRC some Mayans protested the release of the film 2012 over just this issue.

Gillianren
2010-Jul-07, 06:39 AM
Maybe it's because they're tired of gullible Anglos asking them about it all the time.

AriAstronomer
2010-Jul-07, 02:00 PM
At the same time though, it is possible for an asteroid to hit. There are many NEO's uncatalogued, and theoretically, an impact in 2012 is possible to occur without us being warned years in advance. The only way we would have prior knowledge of an asteroid impact dated to hit in 2012 would be if it was on a direct path originating from far (e.g. the oort cloud/kuiper belt). All this being said, scientifically the chance of an asteroid hitting earth in 2012 is just as likely as today or tomorrow, so it's your choice - live in fear for the rest of your life of an impact, or ignore it and move on with your life?

kleindoofy
2010-Jul-07, 06:10 PM
... it's your choice - live in fear for the rest of your life of an impact, or ignore it and move on with your life?
Or, visit well informed websites like godlikeproductions and be the first on your block to know that we're all going to die a horrible death very soon while the ILUMINATI survive and steal our money, etc., etc.

astromark
2010-Jul-07, 09:44 PM
Or, visit well informed websites like godlikeproductions and be the first on your block to know that we're all going to die a horrible death very soon while the ILUMINATI survive and steal our money, etc., etc.

Hmmm... Lol:eh: 'Illuminati' to be the enlightened ones... YES !

Some what reluctantly I will except that we do not see all of those Earth crossers

that could at any moment become a catastrophic event.

Not so much the extinction event but just a local impactor...

If thats my street the end result is the same., my death... I am not happy about that.

This whole 2012 thing is based on that simple fear.

Chances are that we will at some time as yet unknown be struck by a as yet unseen and unknown asteroid.

Its nearly happened a number of times and is a real concern.

So its not unreasonable to be aware of some risk...

The point being not to be paranoid and emphatic about that.

With knowledge comes power. To know that experts are watching.

Knowing that both professional and private astronomers are looking to improve our base of knowledge.

Does help to put aside the fear.

Proper perspective tells me I am in a greater danger from obesity and auto accident than any space born impactor...

AriAstronomer
2010-Jul-08, 10:30 AM
Astromark is right. You have many larger probabilities of death to be afraid of than an asteroid impact. Although....it seems like clockwork that an asteroid impact occurs every 65 million years. When was the last one:P?

But seriously don't be afraid.

Sam5
2010-Jul-08, 11:03 PM
Or, visit well informed websites like godlikeproductions and be the first on your block to know that we're all going to die a horrible death very soon while the ILUMINATI survive and steal our money, etc., etc.

Some guys on a political website tried to convince me that rich powerful intelligent men are “secretly” controlling the world.

I told them that it’s no “secret”, and I couldn’t imagine poor weak stupid men ever controlling the world.

Ken G
2010-Jul-08, 11:20 PM
And I would add that it is pretty much an illusion that anyone is actually "controlling" the world. Did rich powerful men "control" the Deepwater Horizon into exploding? No, rich powerful men tried to get richer and more powerful by hoping it wouldn't explode, but it went ahead and did anyway.

Sam5
2010-Jul-08, 11:43 PM
And I would add that it is pretty much an illusion that anyone is actually "controlling" the world. Did rich powerful men "control" the Deepwater Horizon into exploding? No, rich powerful men tried to get richer and more powerful by hoping it wouldn't explode, but it went ahead and did anyway.

I agree. :)

jfribrg
2010-Jul-09, 12:51 AM
And I apologize if theres a huge difference between meteorite/asteroid/comet I'm a tad new to astrology.

Welcome to BAUT, Navalius. There are differences between Meteorites and asteroids, although sometimes its hard to tell the difference between a comet and an asteroid. None of this, however has anything to do with astrology. The correct term is astronomy and you definitely came to the correct place to learn about that. If you poke around here, you will find a great amount of info on astronomy and pleny of info on why astrology is completely bogus.

Enjoy.