View Full Version : Polls in the ATM forum.

2010-Jul-19, 07:31 PM
I got short shrift when I attempted a poll
in this forum but I had tried checking it
was OK. It seems if a proponent wants to
test reaction to their ideas by this
method they have to include it in their
one and only 30 day thread.

Is this correct?

2010-Jul-19, 07:51 PM
It seems if a proponent wants to test reaction to their ideas by this
method they have to include it in their one and only 30 day thread.

I have no idea what you mean by "testing reaction"...when you post an idea to the ATM forum, the responses you receive ARE "testing reaction".

2010-Jul-19, 07:52 PM
One of the reasons for the 30 day limit was to stop ATM proponents coming back again and again presenting the same idea. This was considered "advertising". A person gets 30 days to do their best job of explaining their idea, and that's it.

Your poll (even if the thread somehow avoided further discussion of your idea) amounted to further "advertising" of your idea. ...and what's to stop you starting another poll in a months time, to see if "opinions had changed"? (And again the next month...)

If you want to gauge reaction to your ideas, the best way is to read the threads you started. (Edit: as R.A.F. wrote).

2010-Jul-19, 08:34 PM
There seem to be more readers than replyers
on any thread and I felt a poll might tempt
some of these to respond even if only as a
vote. And it would cause some replyers to
show their overall feeling if not clear in
the reply.

Incidentally I have only come back to my
idea on the forum when I have had new
information to back it up.

2010-Jul-19, 10:01 PM
The rules of ATM are that you have to defend your claims. As you already said at the beginning that you were not going to defend your claims, then obviously you were not abiding by the ruls of ATM and thus I closed the thread. Simple comme bonjour.

2010-Jul-19, 10:25 PM
Sigh...and if I had indicated I would
defend or reply to respondents?..

Catch 22

2010-Jul-19, 10:36 PM
Only if you ignore the fundamental rule of ATM: you get one, that is to say, one, kick at the can.

2010-Jul-20, 05:23 AM
No Moose, you can start another thread
when you have genuine new evidence to
support the idea and I was so advised
too last January. Though the advisor
seemed annoyed when I did present a
spectacular ammount of new data in

In fact I just found I mistakenly
left out a further tenth candidate
because I thought it was outside
a time limit. I could start a
fresh thread!

Nah! I will save it for a rainy day:)

2010-Jul-20, 09:38 AM
Nah! I will save it for a rainy day:)

It doesn't work like that. Holding back during your 30 days does not give you a loophole that will let you reopen a discussion with impunity. You've had your one kick at the can. It's not our problem if you didn't make the most of it.

Unless there is something new, something compelling, that the moderation team can see deserves a re-airing, any future thread on that subject will be closed. And as it's becoming increasingly clear you intend to try to game the system any way you think you can, such a closure may include additional sanction. I suggest you ask via PM or report whether or not a new thread is warranted before you attempt to open a new thread on your ATM.

2010-Jul-20, 12:05 PM
No! I am NOT gaming the system! I have
made it clear I operate within the rules
as a member here. I appreciate the
moderation that makes this a very usable
and fair discussion board for like minded

I said I "mistakenly" overlooked some
evidence but no matter. What I have
posted is solid for anyone who takes
an interest. Actually my first post
was Sep 2005 and I returned to it
the next summer with some further
analysis and then I bumped that
thread in Nov that year with some
predictions. Shortly afterwards the
new rules came in. Not mainly because
of my contributions I hope. Then it
was not until last Dec I came back
to it though I was always ready to
open a new thread if one of my
predictions was verified by the
fantastic new spacecraft looking
for GRBs.

In such a case I doubt whether
anyone would have grumbled:)

But what about polls in ATM?

2010-Jul-20, 05:25 PM
Why do you care what people think? Isn't it more important what the evidence shows? Science isn't run by public opinion poll.

2010-Jul-20, 09:54 PM
Interesting point! Lay people accept new
science when informed by experts through
the media. But here we have a community
of more informed individuals I would say.
A poll here would not be just about
opinions but would have some incisive
insight I suggest.

2010-Jul-21, 12:12 AM
A poll here would not be just about
opinions but would have some incisive
insight I suggest.

I would suggest that incisive insight won't be detected via a poll, but by the posts made in the relevant threads.

(What you suggest here, is that the "results" of your poll would somehow be more reliable than usual, due to the nature of BAUT membership voting. I don't think that would pan out; e.g. what if the only people who bothered to vote on your poll were the people who come here to post (for example) that the Moon landings were faked? Would you trust that result?)

2010-Jul-21, 07:04 PM
Well I did try it as a public poll, asking
readers to declare their leaning. But I can
see the drawbacks with posters worried
about PMs from proponents. A private poll
might be more sensible. Point is it is
possible to put polls in ATM and I do not
remember coming across any policy about

One character showed their hand in my poll

2010-Jul-21, 07:20 PM
The rules of the ATM forum are such that you have to defend your claims; so a thread just for the purpose of a poll isn't going going to fly.

A poll about a topic that has had its' 30 days isn't going to fly either.

It would be OK to have a poll with an ATM thread, if you wanted some sort of unscientific feedback to go along with it.

2010-Jul-21, 07:39 PM
Which answers my opening question.

2010-Jul-21, 10:24 PM
The thing is, a lot of the regular posters in ATM aren't the kind of scientific lights I'd want evaluating my idea, and a lot of the people who are don't post in ATM. A poll there doesn't ensure your best possible responses.

2010-Jul-25, 10:50 PM
I say allow them, within pzkpfw's guidelines (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php/106085-Polls-in-the-ATM-forum.?p=1765734#post1765734).

Caveat emptor.