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Conrad
2002-Apr-20, 10:54 AM
Just another thought that came to me. After watching the film "Total Recall", I wondered how realistic the scenes are where the Martian environment domes get fractured. In the film, Hapless Bystanders are sucked to their doom by the outrush of atmosphere. My guess is that there is a considerable amount of artistic licence here, but that's just a guess. Any opinions out there? And don't get me started on the peculiar gyrations of Cohagen's face once he lands on the Martian surface sans mask ...

informant
2002-Apr-20, 03:11 PM
The silliest part is at the end of that picture, when Schwarzenegger and his girlfriend are sucked into the bare Martian atmosphere, and they survive!!
There's some face "molding" in there too. Of course, maybe that's the proof that it was all a dream. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif

Silas
2002-Apr-21, 12:07 AM
On 2002-04-20 06:54, Conrad wrote:
Just another thought that came to me. After watching the film "Total Recall", I wondered how realistic the scenes are where the Martian environment domes get fractured. In the film, Hapless Bystanders are sucked to their doom by the outrush of atmosphere. My guess is that there is a considerable amount of artistic licence here, but that's just a guess. Any opinions out there? And don't get me started on the peculiar gyrations of Cohagen's face once he lands on the Martian surface sans mask ...



Well, think on it... You've got a large room pressurized to 14 psi, and windows suddenly open to a sky that's only, what, 4 psi or so? Explosive decompression... There is going to be a very swift, but relatively brief, "burp" of pressure.

For comparison, we know what happens when passenger jet aircraft depressurize. At least one person *has* been sucked right out of the aircraft.

Do you remember the old high school experiment of boiling water inside a "jerrican" -- say a metal five gallon container -- and then sealing the opening. As the can cools, the atmosphere's pressure crushes it. 14 psi is a LOT of force...

Now, talk to any deep-sea diver...

Silas

Donnie B.
2002-Apr-21, 04:02 PM
On 2002-04-20 20:07, Silas wrote:
For comparison, we know what happens when passenger jet aircraft depressurize. At least one person *has* been sucked right out of the aircraft.

Blown out, actually...

(I'm not picking nits here... this is a TV reference. Anyone get it?)

informant:
They survived because they had just turned on a giant alien machine that was producing breathable air in a big hurry. Of course, whether this is "bad science" is open to debate.

As to the original question, I think the portrayal of the dome destruction was reasonable, though maybe not perfect. Remember, those domes were big and contained a very large volume of air; it would not have been able to escape instantly. The depressurization would have gone on for awhile, and during that time it would have been pretty windy.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Donnie B. on 2002-04-21 12:03 ]</font>

SeanF
2002-Apr-22, 01:11 PM
On 2002-04-21 12:02, Donnie B. wrote:


On 2002-04-20 20:07, Silas wrote:
For comparison, we know what happens when passenger jet aircraft depressurize. At least one person *has* been sucked right out of the aircraft.

Blown out, actually...

(I'm not picking nits here... this is a TV reference. Anyone get it?)



I do! You ever seen the blooper reel where the first actor says "they were all sucked out . . ." and the second actor says, "Correction, sir. That's sucked out" and they both bust out laughing? /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

informant
2002-Apr-22, 03:37 PM
informant:
They survived because they had just turned on a giant alien machine that was producing breathable air in a big hurry. Of course, whether this is "bad science" is open to debate.

Somehow, it's a bit hard to swallow that the machine - which had been turned on at the same time as they had been exposed to Mars' atmosphere - would fill the atmosphere quick enough for them to survive.
I also have a hard time believing that their faces would get distorted the way that they did in the picture, due to being exposed to a lower pressure.
And I also have a hard time believeing that, after their faces had been so messed up due to low pressure, they would fall back into place as if nothing had happened, just because "now they could breath again".

David Hall
2002-Apr-22, 03:54 PM
I agree about the effects of lower pressure. I don't think it would have the effect shown. I mean, it's been argued that hard vacuum wouldn't have an effect like that.

And it's also unlikely that the great machine could fill an entire planet that quickly.

But I'm thinking that the machine would start by creating a high pressure "bubble" around its location very quickly. That could be enough to at least explain the characters getting out alive before it's able to spread out over the whole planet. It may also be that the machine is not located only in one place. Maybe there were air generators hidden all around the globe. If they all went off at once it could fill the atmosphere very quickly.

It's been a long time since I've seen this movie. Did they even explain the existance of this machine? Why would anyone build such a machine and not use the darned thing when it was needed?

Silas
2002-Apr-22, 04:48 PM
On 2002-04-22 11:54, David Hall wrote:
It's been a long time since I've seen this movie. Did they even explain the existance of this machine? Why would anyone build such a machine and not use the darned thing when it was needed?


It seemed to be a "Clarke Artifact," left by an advanced civilization as a gift to be activated when those "five fingered apes" on earth got the skill to arrive on Mars.

Besides, how can you "forget" this movie? We can remember it for you wholesale!

Silas

James
2002-Apr-22, 06:48 PM
On 2002-04-22 09:11, SeanF wrote:


On 2002-04-21 12:02, Donnie B. wrote:


On 2002-04-20 20:07, Silas wrote:
For comparison, we know what happens when passenger jet aircraft depressurize. At least one person *has* been sucked right out of the aircraft.

Blown out, actually...

(I'm not picking nits here... this is a TV reference. Anyone get it?)



I do! You ever seen the blooper reel where the first actor says "they were all sucked out . . ." and the second actor says, "Correction, sir. That's sucked out" and they both bust out laughing? /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif




ROTFLOL

Ah, yes. Star Trek: The Next Generation. I don't remember which episode it was, but the lines actually went: "...they were all sucked out...""Correction, sir. That is blown out." /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

EckJerome
2002-Apr-23, 12:21 AM
Ah, yes. Star Trek: The Next Generation. I don't remember which episode it was, but the lines actually went: "...they were all sucked out...""Correction, sir. That is blown out." /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif



Second episode..."The Naked Now"

Eric

Bob S.
2002-Apr-23, 05:32 PM
Besides, how can you "forget" this movie? We can remember it for you wholesale!

PKD pun duly noted. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

The ignorance about sudden exposure to vacuum is exploited for dramatic effect by film and TV writers who probably know little about it themselves. What's important to them is the human drama of "will they or won't they survive" or "how grisly can we make a death scene and get it past the censors". For factual info, see the link:
http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answers/970603.html

Donnie B.
2002-Apr-23, 11:49 PM
"Outland" was another movie that turned a decompression death into a grisly mess.

I suppose certain modes could be quite nasty, though... like a smallish hole in the helmet (say) that might act like a sausage extruder. But then, maybe the skull would be sturdy enough to withstand the (rather low) suit pressure, and plug the hole; maybe all you'd get would be a real nasty skin lesion -- like a mini-scalping.

Roy Batty
2002-Apr-24, 12:14 AM
Sausage extruder.. Alien Resurrection springs to mind /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

David Hall
2002-Apr-24, 05:15 AM
Uggh. Aliens Ressurection. Now there was a stupid ending. Sucking the Alien out through a 6 cm hole in the wall. That thing must basically been a bag of unconnected parts and goo surrounded by a rather weak skin. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Most of the rest of the movie wasn't so bad, but it was stupid. Let's see, we establish a top secret research base in the outer solar system in order to keep everything secret and the Earth safe from "contamination". So, what do we do? We set the autopilot to rocket us straight back to Earth in the event of an accident. Smart.

Anyway, here's a review of A:R from my favorite reviewer (well, second favorite /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif).

http://www.mrcranky.com/movies/alienresurrection.html

Sorry, it doesn't look like he's reviewed Total Recall though.