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View Full Version : It's here..... It's come.... IE!!!



Glom
2010-Sep-16, 12:05 PM
IE9 is out! (http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Technology/Microsoft-Launches-Internet-Explorer-9-IE9-Released-Promising-Faster-Web-Browsing-Speeds/Article/201009315729888?lpos=Technology_First_Home_Article _Teaser_Region_2&lid=ARTICLE_15729888_Microsoft_Launches_Internet_E xplorer_9:_IE9_Released_Promising_Faster_Web_Brows ing_Speeds)

From reading its bio on Wikipedia, it will be faster because it runs straight off the graphics card, it better utilises multi-core processors for scripting and other things too. It is supposed to have a better UI, but I can't see any good pics. It has support for HTML5 and SVG (finally!) and improved support for CSS, but I can't find details on what improvements.

samkent
2010-Sep-16, 02:49 PM
http://windows.microsoft.com/ie9?os=winvista&arch=a&browser=ie

I'm about to give a try.

Ara Pacis
2010-Sep-16, 04:04 PM
I'ts still not Firefox.

I'm sure people will say.

dethfire
2010-Sep-16, 09:16 PM
Released out of beta? I'll check it out. Likely will stick with FF and Chrome.

Van Rijn
2010-Sep-16, 09:58 PM
Just looked over the information on it.

This is a beta, and there is no support for Windows XP. It's going be awhile before I try it.

NickW
2010-Sep-17, 01:12 AM
Yeah, the no support for XP killed it for me. Guess Ill have to wait until I get my next computer.

Graybeard6
2010-Sep-17, 05:02 AM
It's still not Firefox.

Nicolas
2010-Sep-17, 08:57 AM
Go figure, I upgraded to IE8 literally 2 days ago. :)

And since then, I have the annoying scrolling issue when typing replies on bulletin boards...

Anyway, XP here so no IE9.

Moose
2010-Sep-17, 09:17 AM
I'll pass on IE9. Microsoft (apparently) will help.

Glom
2010-Sep-17, 09:19 AM
It's impressive the scale of entrenchment of XP.

Moose
2010-Sep-17, 09:54 AM
It's impressive the scale of entrenchment of XP.

It's not entrenchment, it's "I don't feel like replacing my perfectly functional computer every time MS releases an OS." XP meets my needs, entirely and completely. It has yet to be demonstrated to me that Vista or 7 will provide sufficient additional value to warrant the hardware required to run it. The fact that IE won't run on XP has no leverage on me. The fact that they're trying to lever me off of XP is, however, noted.

pzkpfw
2010-Sep-17, 10:18 AM
Go figure, I upgraded to IE8 literally 2 days ago. :)

And since then, I have the annoying scrolling issue when typing replies on bulletin boards...

Anyway, XP here so no IE9.

I use IE8, what's this issue?

(And is it an issue with IE8, or an issue with websites that send IE8 "broken" HTML/CSS assuming it will by default work like the less standards compliant earlier versions of IE?)

((I do know the BAUT image handling window is broken in IE8, I need to turn on compatibility mode for it to look right; but that's an issue with the BAUT forum software, not IE8.))

NickW
2010-Sep-17, 03:07 PM
It's impressive the scale of entrenchment of XP.

I just don't want to pay to upgrade my currently old computer with something to replace my OS that is running perfectly fine right now. When I replace or buy a new computer, I will update to windows 7. No point in doing it now, and sure as hell am not going to do it just to have an updated web browser that is likely to be more trouble than it is worth.

samkent
2010-Sep-17, 03:45 PM
Well I tried it and I’m back to ie8.

Two problems.

Mouse overs on some sites caused it to generate a blank page after the original page displayed.

The new ‘onebox’ combined address and search box would not give me expected results.
Ex:
I have Google as the one and only (default) search provider.
I type in ‘maps’ and I expect to see a Google page showing many listings with theirs at the top. It takes me to ‘maps.com’.
I type in ‘dc9’ (as in the airplane). I see flash in the address ‘http:\dc9\’ then my local ISP takes over and the result is ‘http://wwww7.search.zoomtown.com’ and crummy search results from zoomtown.

I was never able to get a page of results from google unless I first went to google.com and typed into their box.

My thought on XP:
XP still has 53%
V and W7 is up to 33%
W7 is rising at about 1% per month and expected to jump big time about xmas.
XP is almost 10 years old.
XP is very susceptible to viruses. I have never heard of any for W7. Unless you count the ones where you click ‘Yes’.
XP SP2 support was dropped in July. SP3 is still supported until 2011 for most users.
Will you be able to reinstall and activate your XP in 2012? Or will you asking What now?
You can’t install the new Office suite on XP.
You don’t have to play OS games to get the large hard drives install in V or W7.

We’ve all had software that has become orphaned with newer versions or newer OS, it’s just part of the computer game. Drop the coin for a new system the economy needs your help.

NEOWatcher
2010-Sep-17, 04:20 PM
It's not entrenchment, it's "I don't feel like replacing my perfectly functional computer every time MS releases an OS." XP meets my needs, entirely and completely.
No; It's the "New 64 bit processing has eliminated the ability to run older programs, so everything you have will/may need to be upgraded and recompiled to 64 bit"

Ronald Brak
2010-Sep-17, 04:33 PM
I went from XP to windows 7 a couple of days ago and I've been really impressed. Two whole days without crashing or weirdness. It reminds me of the good old days of DOS 3.2. The windows 7 came with a new laptop I bought for $499 Australian. It appears that Microsoft has been doing some heavy discounting to let me buy an up to date full size laptop for that much. I guess they value maintaining their market share over short term profit. The shift to laptops from desktops must have been great for Microsoft as a large number of desk tops in certain countries run off pirated windows.

I recently found out that Australia is one of the few countries in the world where it is legal to run Apple software on non Apple machines so we can legally make hackintoshes here. Not that I am likely to do this.

I realize that nothing I have written so far has anything to do with Internet Explorer 9, but what the hey, I'm excited about my new computer.

NickW
2010-Sep-17, 04:33 PM
samkent. please understand. I have no problem upgrading to a new OS, but I am not going to do it because I am told that I will be upgrading to a superior product. Geez, how much money would I spend if I did that for every model year of car.... :)

Of course when Vista was new, I was completely entrench in XP because of how shoddy Vista was on release. I will say thought that windows 7 is seem very nice to use. My entire company uses it for all there new machines (which in the last month has been 3), and I think it is great. I am still going to wait until I get a new computer though before I upgrade.

Glom
2010-Sep-17, 04:41 PM
I use IE8, what's this issue?

(And is it an issue with IE8, or an issue with websites that send IE8 "broken" HTML/CSS assuming it will by default work like the less standards compliant earlier versions of IE?)

((I do know the BAUT image handling window is broken in IE8, I need to turn on compatibility mode for it to look right; but that's an issue with the BAUT forum software, not IE8.))

Are you basically saying IE8 is better than people think it is? They write substandard code for it when it would work better with proper code?

samkent
2010-Sep-17, 06:49 PM
If they came out with a new OS every couple of years I might have a problem. But I was running W2K and I figured 7 years was a fair amount of use. Plus with each install I had list of tweeks and setting changes I had to perform to bring it up to spec.

I’ve never fully understood the distain for Vista. The only issues I had was the wait for a driver for my older printer and I had to upgrade from Office 2000 to 07. I still have it on my laptop, smooth as butter.

Moose
2010-Sep-17, 07:17 PM
I've never fully understood the distain for Vista.

For me, it was swallowing the notion that any OS should require 2 gigabytes of ram to function in a non-crippled state... before you've started to run software. It was hard enough swallowing XP's 1 gig requirement.

HenrikOlsen
2010-Sep-17, 08:36 PM
Are you basically saying IE8 is better than people think it is? They write substandard code for it when it would work better with proper code?
He's saying that IE7 and the previous were so buggy in their handling of standards defined html and css that web designers were forced to code to the faults in order to make websites that worked. Those websites now detect IE8 as being some IE, ie. something known to be horribly buggy, and serves the nonstandard pages to it, even though it's better at following standards than IE7 was and would work ok if served the standards following versions that are served to other browsers.
As a result, IE8 has to have a mode where it act as the badly broken IE7 in order to display websites that were coded to the previous Microsoft StandardTM.
In many cases it is eg. JavaScripts which detects the type of browser it runs on and run different code depending on which browser it runs on.

Recoding a website to allow for a new browser can cost almost as much as coding it to begin with and it's basically sunk money, wasted in an effort to keep status quo rather than increasing user appeal.

It is a result of a general problem with Microsoft which they always had with implementing standards they don't themselves define, they don't like the taste of the drink until they peed in it; or to say it another way, they're subtly incompatible so it'll take a while for competitors to adjust their code to interact with the Microsoft programs which made it a better bet for those making purchasing decisions to go all-Microsoft rather than heterogeneous, because even though everyone else but Microsoft already work perfect together as a result of following defined standards, if it doesn't work with Microsoft management knows it's bad.

Microsoft has always been a fast moving target when seen from a programmer's point of view, they have more money available (and far better documentation of quirks) for in-house programmers to update their own software than the rest of the world has has to follow along, which is one of the ways they stay ahead of the competition in applications.

NickW
2010-Sep-17, 08:37 PM
Mine was the complete lack of driver support as well. Without driver support there was absolutely no functionality.

Glom
2010-Sep-17, 10:03 PM
Sinister to be sure. But I think the rise of Google as a company even more evil than Microsoft, I think Microsoft are beginning to come around to playing with the team.

Rhaedas
2010-Sep-17, 10:31 PM
IE8 had finally gotten the IE line to where I could code via standards, and really not have to make much adjusting through conditional testing. It was nice to have a site look close to the same in Firefox, Safari, AND an IE browser.

I so hope that IE9 is continuing that trend, and not introducing more proprietary features that will take web design a step back. I think there should always be progress in what a browser can do, but I'd rather they look at how to better and faster present standard ways to code layout than the other browsers, rather than try and make people code in their way and not recognize there's non-MS stuff out there.

pzkpfw
2010-Sep-17, 11:41 PM
Sinister to be sure. But I think the rise of Google as a company even more evil than Microsoft, I think Microsoft are beginning to come around to playing with the team.

I don't think it was all about sinisterness. Microsoft stopped emphasising their "special" web page features long ago (Marguee versus Blink - it's war!). Much of the incompatibility is more about simply stuffing things up, such as the box model. If a box is drawn on a page, there is margin outside the box, the width of the border of the box and then padding inside the box. You'd be surprised how easy it is for different developers (even reading the same specs) to come up with different ways to interpret the values of a box onto a picture on the screen. e.g. are the margin and padding measured from the centre of the border, or from the relevant outside edge of the border?

I agree with you about Google. Microsoft got a bad rep for being an "evil empire", but frankly that's just what big companies do, because they exist to make money and add value for shareholders. Apple, Google and any other big company just want to do the same thing - they want to be Microsoft too.

HenrikOlsen covered it well but I thought it might yet be worth explaining what I meant (with an analogy):

Let's say HTML/CSS standards specify how RED is supposed to look.
But IE didn't do it right, and RED always looked a bit off.
So web page designers put in code that said "If you are IE, use PINK, everybody else use RED", because that gave a better result.
Now along comes IE8, which is better at following standards, and RED now looks the way it should.
But those web pages are still saying "If you are IE, use PINK, everybody else use RED", and now that's wrong.

(The irony is that for years people tell Microsoft to make IE more standards compliant, so they do, then Microsoft get hassled for web pages not looking right any more.)

There are a few ways this can be fixed for a web site, such as:

1. The web developer can do a better check of which version of IE is being used: "If you are IE (version 7 or older) use PINK, everybody else (including IE 8 or newer) use RED". (One day, when few people use the older IE's, all this can be dropped, hopefully).

2. The web developer can put a tag into each page that tells newer IE to run the page in a mode that is compatibile with older IE's, e.g. so the newer IE shows PINK as RED. (Yes, it's a special Microsoft tag, but at least it's a quick and easy way to make pages "look right" in newer IE's without much re-work of the old kludges, that is, it's quicker than doing option 1 all over the site).

3. The users themselves can click the "compatibility mode" button (next to the refresh button, to the right of the address box), to make IE show a page the "old way". (This setting can be stored so IE remembers to always show a site this way).

Glom
2010-Sep-20, 11:36 AM
Better yet, stop supporting IE6. I know businesses continue to use it, but that's their problem.

HenrikOlsen
2010-Sep-20, 11:52 AM
Better yet, stop supporting IE6. I know businesses continue to use it, but that's their problem.
It's not IE6 that's the problem, it's IE7, it's going to be a long time before dropping support for that version will be a viable strategy for sites that want to keep their customers.

pzkpfw
2010-Sep-20, 07:38 PM
Better yet, stop supporting IE6. I know businesses continue to use it, but that's their problem.

As with my "option 1", the issue for existing web sites is that it takes effort (costs money) to remove all those "if IE do something special" bits from a website.

And if you are going to do that, you may as well do it in a way that lets older and newer IE both work, which brings us back to "option 1".

For new websites, I agree with HenrikOlsen - it's too soon to drop that support. (And as a programmer who does some of his work in the web space, I do say that sadly. I really hate having to code different stuff for the different browsers (and this is not new to IE; back in the day when I had to cope with Navigator, Safari, Firefox and IE for one customer - IE was not the only one that had its' quirks).)

Nicolas
2010-Sep-21, 11:24 AM
I use IE8, what's this issue?

(And is it an issue with IE8, or an issue with websites that send IE8 "broken" HTML/CSS assuming it will by default work like the less standards compliant earlier versions of IE?)

((I do know the BAUT image handling window is broken in IE8, I need to turn on compatibility mode for it to look right; but that's an issue with the BAUT forum software, not IE8.))

My problem is that when I type a quick reply in a bulletin board, the text box starts scrolling (jumping) all over the place with each letter I type as soon as it has more than x lines of text. x would be something like 15. The text you type ends up in the right place, but visually the text jumps everywhere as if I was scrolling back to line 1 and back to the last line after each letter I type.

BAUT does not have this problems. Other boards such as forum.audiofreaks.nl (<-- no plug intended, it's not even an English board) do have this problem. Verrrrry annoying! Didn't have any problem like this in IE7.