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View Full Version : A suggestion to The Bad Astronomer - RE: Larry Jacksīs debu



William the Conqueror
2002-Apr-21, 06:13 PM
Hi Phil !

Would you consider posting a link to Larry Jacksīs debunking of the James Collier video, "Was It Only A Paper Moon ?"

... on the BA website itself ??

Itīs such a thorough debunking that I think it deserves to be made "immortal" via a link on your website.

Larry Jacksīs true gem can be found at:

http://web.archive.org/web/19980522194004/www.skywardpress.com/acritique_video.htm

... and here is some info on who Larry Jacks is:

http://web.archive.org/web/19980522194011/www.skywardpress.com/mybackground.htm

And at http://web.archive.org/web/19980522193628/www.skywardpress.com/acritiqu.htm,

.... Larry Jacks says:

"The video contained MANY errors that were easy to prove. In some cases, his statements were so wrong that an examination proved the exact opposite of what he claims. I found over 60 errors and/or unsupported statements in his video, which lasts approximately 88 minutes. There probably would have been more except that, for some portions of the tape, he simply showed NASA footage and didn't say anything."

PS: Full credits to Ian R, who found it for me ! /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

"William The Conqueror"



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: William the Conqueror on 2002-04-21 17:27 ]</font>

AstroMike
2002-Apr-21, 06:53 PM
From the "Wrong Stuff article".

http://web.archive.org/web/19961128173620/www.wired.com/wired/2.09/features/moon.land.html

But just how could NASA possibly have pulled it off? How about the TV pictures that billions of people saw over the course of six successful missions: the rocket lifting off from the Cape Kennedy launch pad under the watchful eye of hundreds of thousands of spectators; the capsule with the crew returning to earth; the moon rocks; the hundreds, perhaps thousands, of space-program employees in the know who would have to be relied upon to take the incredible secret to their graves?

Easy, says Kaysing. The rockets took off all right, with the astronauts on board, but as soon as they were out of sight, the roaring spacecraft set course for the south polar sea, jettisoned its crew, and crashed. Later, the crew and the command module were put in a military plane and dropped in the Pacific for "recovery" by an aircraft carrier. (Kaysing claims that he talked with an airline pilot who, en route from San Francisco to Tokyo, saw the Apollo 15 command module sliding out of an unidentified cargo plane, but he can't provide the captain's name or the name of the airline.) The moon rocks were made in a NASA geology lab, right here on earth, he continues. Not very many people on the Apollo project knew about the hoax, as they were only informed on a need-to-know basis. Cash bonuses, promotions, or veiled threats could have ensured the silence of those who were in on the whole scheme.

How can someone drop a command module out of the sky without the HAM radio operators and satellite trackers noticing? Someone is obviously telling lies and fabrications!

jrkeller
2002-Apr-24, 03:17 PM
Tokyo is located at 35 N and the Apollo 15 splashdown location was 24 N. When you put in the Great Circle Arc (flying north) to reduce the flying distance, one can see that this statment is truely foolish.

I know, the whole ship full of sailors, and those on the ground and those tracking folks in Austrailia all lied.

JayUtah
2002-Apr-24, 04:33 PM
NASA dropped dozens of command modules out of cargo planes. How do you think the parachute system was developed and tested? How do you think the splashdown characteristics were tested?

Of course neither a test nor a fabrication would have been conducted without first clearing the airspace of commercial traffic. The "pilot" Kaysing spoke to was a caller on one of the many call-in programs Kaysing frequents. So while we can't necessarily fault Kaysing for the anonymity of the caller, we can certainly fault him for continuing to promulgate implausibilities without verification.

JayUtah
2002-Apr-24, 04:48 PM
...but as soon as they were out of sight, the roaring spacecraft set course for the south polar sea

Out of sight from whose point of view? What about all the people tracking it to orbit? What about all the people in Australia who witnessed the TLI burn with the unaided eye?

The moon rocks were made in a NASA geology lab, right here on earth, he continues.

But nobody can figure out a process for it. The rocks we have cannot be manufactured on earth. That's the funny thing: it doesn't matter whether or not they come from the moon -- no matter where they come from, they're unmanufacturable and ought therefore to be assumed of natural origin. And since they can't have naturally formed on earth. Therefore it's far more plausible to believe they're from the moon than from a lab.

Not very many people on the Apollo project knew about the hoax, as they were only informed on a need-to-know basis.

But the "need to know" was huge. You're talking about lots and lots of people who simply can't be kept in the dark, or else they'll become suspicious.

Cash bonuses, promotions, or veiled threats could have ensured the silence of those who were in on the whole scheme.

Cash does not ensure loyalty. There will always be people who try to have the cash and a conscience. Besides, a payoff is only an incentive if you can spend it. Why don't we see key rocket scientists living in multimillion dollar mansions driving fleets of exotic sports cars and traveling the world on first-class tickets? In fact, we see them quite obviously living within their expected means.

Promotions are similarly ineffective. There are always people whose conscience outweighs their greed. Besides, for every person that's promoted there might be someone who is laid off or fired for cause, who might have a motive to get back at his former employer. Kaysing refuses to consider the disgruntled employee scenario.

Threats are more effective, but not totally. They are easily thwarted by deathbed confessions, defection to a foreign power, or letters held by attorneys to be opened in the event of death. None of these has happened.

I have to say whatever universe Bill Kaysing inhabits does not bear much resemblance to the reality where most of us live. Much of what he says is pure fantasy. It's almost frightening the ease with which Kaysing simply lies.

David Hall
2002-Apr-24, 04:49 PM
I once did an analysis of all the Apollo Splashdown sites, and only one of them came anywhere close to being on a direct route to anywhere. I don't remember which one it was, but I think it was A15. I think I posted it on the old board before the changeover.

I wish I'd kept my notes from then. They would have been helpful now.

In any case, the best infor on splashdown coordinates for Apollo 15 I could find was latitude: 26.7° North, longitude: 158.8° west, which is about 530km north of Honolulu. Any plane from SF is going to go directly to Honolulu and would not travel so far north of it. Any plane going to Japan is going to travel a straigt line path that approaches the Aleutian islands and will be even farther away.

I suppose there is a very outside chance that a plane would come close enough to see something like that, if it were going to Hawaii, but I find it highly unlikely. Besides, Kaysing claims it was en route to Tokyo, which would never even come close to the landing site.

IIRC, all the other missions splashed down south of Hawaii or in the Atlantic. None of them would have been near a Tokyo-SF route. So I would call his claim very unlikely at best.

Here's a really cool overview of the Apollo missions I ran across while double-checking the coordinates:

http://zebu.uoregon.edu/~js/space/lectures/lec17.html

_________________
David Hall
"Dave... my mind is going... I can feel it... I can feel it." (http://www.occn.zaq.ne.jp/cuaea503/whatnots/2001_feel_it.wav)

<font size="-1">(made a correction)</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: David Hall on 2002-04-24 12:51 ]</font>

jrkeller
2002-Apr-24, 08:01 PM
What's interesting about all of this, is that it took me about 5 minutes of searching the Internet to find the information I needed to see that Kaysing's statement was not correct.

Stuff like this just makes them look even worse.