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ToSeek
2010-Oct-22, 04:33 PM
Of course, I don't buy the claim that this is some sort of fake, but I'm unsure of the actual explanation:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLPHil8_4HI&feature=related

There's an interesting reflection at about the 2:40 mark. It doesn't look bright enough to be the Sun. Could it be the Moon?

PetersCreek
2010-Oct-22, 05:08 PM
Hmmmm...I think it's still the Sun. With the nearby river and the broken appearance of the reflection, it looks to me as though it's a reflection of the Sun on some wetlands. Figuring that the light goes through the cloud layer twice and that wetlands contain varying amounts of surface vegetation, I wouldn't be surprise by a fainter reflection.

Can we identify the land mass?

Bobbar
2010-Oct-22, 05:20 PM
The first thing that hits my mind is a specular reflection from the sun.

The only problem I notice is the size; it seems too small. I suppose that could be explained by the size and shape of the body of water it's reflecting off of?

PetersCreek
2010-Oct-22, 05:33 PM
It could also be explained by the focal length of the lens. Anything wider than the "normal" lens for the format used would appear smaller than if viewed directly.

Bobbar
2010-Oct-22, 05:55 PM
After looking through the magazines at LPI I found photos of a very similar reflection.

One photo, no reflection. (http://www.lpi.usra.edu/resources/apollo/images/browse/AS09/19/3044.jpg)

Next photo, reflection. (http://www.lpi.usra.edu/resources/apollo/images/browse/AS09/19/3045.jpg)

chrlzs
2010-Oct-22, 09:10 PM
Absolutely Sun. The Moon's brightness would not be anywhere near sufficient to do that. The smallness reflects (heheh) the fact that it is a relatively flat area of water, and therefore a reasonably confined and coherent image, plus the Earth is a sphere, so it slightly reduces the reflection size (or at least it would it if it was a perfectly smooth surface, and that region is obviously close to that). You can see this effect whenever you have multiple textures, eg waves plus still areas, eg:

Example 1 (http://newhartfordplus.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/20081031fall-sun-on-streamf.jpg)

Example 2 (http://www.danheller.com/images/California/Yosemite/Water/Ice/sun-reflection-ice-1-big.jpg)

Example 3 (http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll40/bionicdaniel/20090418_0742-SunOnThePond.jpg)

...where the sun is simply reflected differently in different areas due to the angles of the waves, surface disturbances, etc...

AtomicDog
2010-Oct-23, 02:05 AM
I've seen reflections like that on a lot of Gemini footage.

Fooglmog
2010-Oct-23, 05:09 AM
Bobbar's images satisfy me... even if they didn't though, one must beg the question as to why the footage of being in orbit around the Earth would be faked. I've never met a moon hoax theorist who claims we never made it into space at all (many of their theories, in fact, include extended stays orbiting the Earth). That being known, why would they argue that footage taken in orbit around the Earth is faked?

If anything, this simply demonstrates how poor their skills of analysis are. They've taken footage which has no reason to be fake, and demonstrated that it contains the same kind of anomalies that they consider as "proof" that other footage must be faked.

Garrison
2010-Oct-23, 04:01 PM
Bobbar's images satisfy me... even if they didn't though, one must beg the question as to why the footage of being in orbit around the Earth would be faked. I've never met a moon hoax theorist who claims we never made it into space at all (many of their theories, in fact, include extended stays orbiting the Earth). That being known, why would they argue that footage taken in orbit around the Earth is faked?

If anything, this simply demonstrates how poor their skills of analysis are. They've taken footage which has no reason to be fake, and demonstrated that it contains the same kind of anomalies that they consider as "proof" that other footage must be faked.

Actually there are a few who seem to think that all the manned flights were faked, and more than a few who pretend Gemini didn't exist so they can claim the superiority of the Soviet space program right through the 60's.

grapes
2010-Oct-23, 05:28 PM
There's an interesting reflection at about the 2:40 mark. At about 2:38, the text "Light Reflects off The Artificial Fake Earth Model" and the spot of light appears in the water(?) at about the 2:42 mark, then disappears by 2:45

Obviously a slow flashbulb :)

kleindoofy
2010-Oct-23, 07:55 PM
It's a shame the video breaks so quickly. The recording of Beethoven's 5th is pretty good.

slang
2010-Oct-24, 12:03 AM
I've never met a moon hoax theorist who claims we never made it into space at all

Stick around, or waste some time browsing through older CT threads. Some really do go that far, when pushed to establish what they think what was possible, and what not. Invariably the topic of the Trieste comes up, which was a hoax too, of course. And Concorde probably never really flew faster than sound either. They rather stick to their flawed combination of faulty logic and sometimes pathetic lack of knowledge, than ever admitting they might be just a tad wrong in one minor aspect. Because if they can be wrong in one detail... It makes for funny threads, let's be thankful for that.

Van Rijn
2010-Oct-24, 05:55 AM
I remember one fellow that claimed that amateur photos of the ISS posted here were faked. As I recall, it started with a claim that ISS was faked, someone posted photos they'd taken from their backyard telescope, but that was dismissed as fake as well. Apparently anyone claiming they had seen the ISS was part of the conspiracy. Naturally, he wasn't interested in checking for himself, as that might have forced him to reevaluate his beliefs.

eburacum45
2010-Oct-24, 08:28 PM
Specular reflection forms a diffuse spot, but the amount of 'blur' is dependent on how broken up the surface is. A perfectly smooth surface would create a perfect reflection of the sun, only 0.5 degrees across. Any waves will reflect the light at an increasing array of angles, causing the specular reflection to become blurred. So that small spot must have been reflecting off a particularly smooth patch of water.

NGCHunter
2010-Oct-24, 08:48 PM
I remember one fellow that claimed that amateur photos of the ISS posted here were faked. As I recall, it started with a claim that ISS was faked, someone posted photos they'd taken from their backyard telescope, but that was dismissed as fake as well. Apparently anyone claiming they had seen the ISS was part of the conspiracy. Naturally, he wasn't interested in checking for himself, as that might have forced him to reevaluate his beliefs.
I remember the encounter quite well:
http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php/66009-Space-Travel-Hoax-The-ultimate-goal-exposed-worldwide-first-by-Matt-Marriott/page5
He's not the only one to claim that; I had a rather extended debate with another person on youtube who insists that my ISS footage is all faked, and I have debated others elsewhere on other forums who all insist the same thing. Matt Marriott was one of my first encounters with such a person, but by no means the last. There is a very real but small group of people who actually believe all of manned spaceflight is a hoax and anyone who presents evidence to the contrary is part of the conspiracy.

Clanger
2010-Oct-24, 10:44 PM
I wonder what comments the youtuber would get if they allowed them on any one of their appalling videos. Afraid of being told their errors - much!

I just replayed the video without sound and imagined the Steptoe and Son theme tune coming in with the Sun reflection and wondered also, whether it would be quite as effective as Beethoven's 5th.

slang
2010-Oct-25, 01:16 AM
The mentioned theme song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRaiiT3ZnJw)(?). Having heard it, I wonder too. Probably just as effective, just not at achieving the same effect.

Jeff Root
2010-Oct-25, 04:07 AM
Utterly off-topic:

I had not heard that theme music before. Hearing it now, I get
the immediate impression that the composer really missed it.
Several times the melodic line was headed on an obvious path,
but unexpectedly evaporated, only to repeat the line just played,
making it much less engaging than it ought to have been.

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

Weltraum
2010-Oct-25, 05:41 AM
Of course, I don't buy the claim that this is some sort of fake, but I'm unsure of the actual explanation:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLPHil8_4HI&feature=related

There's an interesting reflection at about the 2:40 mark. It doesn't look bright enough to be the Sun. Could it be the Moon?

Man, you've got to love his BIG DRAMATIC MUSIC when that reflection appears.. I would say it's the moon, myself. The size seems right for that.

I also liked his note about the pictures. Never mind that you clearly see video of one of the astronauts using a camera.

Oh, and the woowoos might also pay attention to how that reflection is emerging from beneath the clouds on that "fake" Earth. Pretty detailed "fake" there.

But reading the replies here, heck, I guess it is the sun. I didn't think it'd look so dim.

Strange
2010-Oct-25, 09:22 AM
Utterly off-topic:

I had not heard that theme music before. Hearing it now, I get
the immediate impression that the composer really missed it.
Several times the melodic line was headed on an obvious path,
but unexpectedly evaporated, only to repeat the line just played,
making it much less engaging than it ought to have been.

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

If you haven't seen the sitcom in question ... I think it was a deliberate effect ... usually the plot was headed to an obvious conclusion, which unexpectedly evaporated ...

And now, back to our scheduled conspiracy.

NEOWatcher
2010-Oct-25, 04:39 PM
I would say it's the moon, myself. The size seems right for that.
I'd like to know a little more about your reasoning about size. From the Earth, they seem to be about the same size. Just look at any solar eclipse.


But reading the replies here, heck, I guess it is the sun. I didn't think it'd look so dim.
Isn't it great how you learn things here?

Jeff Root
2010-Oct-25, 06:18 PM
If we were to assume that the clouds are perfectly white,
the air between them is perfectly clear, and the surface of
the water is perfectly flat and perfectly reflective, how
much brighter would the specular reflection be than the
diffuse reflection?

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

manxman
2010-Oct-25, 11:39 PM
Of course, I don't buy the claim that this is some sort of fake, but I'm unsure of the actual explanation:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLPHil8_4HI&feature=related

There's an interesting reflection at about the 2:40 mark. It doesn't look bright enough to be the Sun. Could it be the Moon?

Toseek it doesnt make any sense for anyone to attach any significance to that 2.40 reflection.
the footage has been edited, and anyone trying to hide anything would not just edit out half of what they wanted to keep secret.
I have no idea what it is either.

I dont buy any of this moan hoax gear.

HenrikOlsen
2010-Oct-25, 11:54 PM
The edit was by the hoax believer who wanted to repeat the reflection with slower and slower speed and more and more zoom while playing dramatic music to make people believe that it was something other than the sun.

Why he didn't cut out the previous 2m30s is a mystery though.