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View Full Version : It's Official Dr Who gets 507 regenerations



captain swoop
2010-Oct-26, 04:33 PM
He sead it on 'The Sarah Jane Adventures' new episode aired today on CBBC

Russel T Davis wrote the episode. Second of a 2 parter.

Good episode Jo Grant was in it as well

ABR.
2010-Oct-26, 04:52 PM
For some reason, I thought it had been established that 12 was the total number of regenerations. I've been wondering how they would deal with that. I guess I have my answer now.

Swift
2010-Oct-26, 05:19 PM
Of course The Who will do the theme song for the episode.... "Talkin' 'bout regeneration"

:D

HenrikOlsen
2010-Oct-26, 05:40 PM
For some reason, I thought it had been established that 12 was the total number of regenerations. I've been wondering how they would deal with that. I guess I have my answer now.
I think they established a number several times and had to revise it when they reached it.
At least this time they picked one that won't need revision for a while, but it does remove any tension about that part.

SeanF
2010-Oct-26, 06:03 PM
I think they established a number several times and had to revise it when they reached it.
At least this time they picked one that won't need revision for a while, but it does remove any tension about that part.
But how many regenerations had he experienced before we ever met him? :)

The Backroad Astronomer
2010-Oct-26, 06:09 PM
He sead it on 'The Sarah Jane Adventures' new episode aired today on CBBC

Russel T Davis wrote the episode. Second of a 2 parter.

Good episode Jo Grant was in it as well

Good so there looks like there is no end in sight. Well at least until Fox gets hold of it.

ETA Oops forgot Fox did make that TV movie in the 90's I wonder why I forgot about it.

Moose
2010-Oct-26, 07:24 PM
Personally, I'd have played up on that 12th, and when it was time, and everybody thought he'd die for sure this time, I'd simply regenerate him, and nobody really knowing why he wasn't dead. The doctor is wrong sometimes. Then if it ever came up again, "who knows? We're in uncharted territory. *helpless shrug*"

captain swoop
2010-Oct-26, 08:07 PM
I always though of it as some limit imposed by the Timelords to stop people being effectively Immortal. With no Timelords to enforce a limit there isn't one.

Plus we all know the BBC aren't going to stop their most popular of shows because of some arbitrary number tossed out over 20 years ago.

As an aside I went with the family to the Dr Who Exhibition in Newcastle last weekend.

It was brill. All the props and costumes were there. Animated Cybermen menacing the vistitors. Seperate 'Dalek' experience where you are first plunged into darkness then menaced by various Daleks and Davros. All good.

Strange
2010-Oct-26, 08:26 PM
Talking about this other day, it occurred to me that they could make the 13th regeneration female as a way of resetting the counter - "we said he can't regenerate more than 12 times". Surely it is time for a Dottoressa...

eburacum45
2010-Oct-26, 09:07 PM
Surely it is time for a Dottoressa...Like this one, for instance? From a story by Stephen Moffatt, no less.
http://www.bautforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13839

Van Rijn
2010-Oct-26, 09:14 PM
I think they established a number several times and had to revise it when they reached it.
At least this time they picked one that won't need revision for a while, but it does remove any tension about that part.

I only remember the 12 regenerations bit, which I think goes back a long time. Even back then, though, the Master had managed to cheat, so I suspected they were going to have the Doctor cheat somehow. But it sounds like the story writers are cheating, unless they get around to explainng how the number changed.

Jim
2010-Oct-27, 02:15 AM
The number didn't change, it was simply misunderstood.

12
507
5+0+7=12

See? Typical Whovian logic.

Professor Tanhauser
2010-Oct-27, 10:02 AM
Well, Rassalon had died after exceeding hs 12 regens,but somehow he came back. The master did too.

Maybe we should not count the US version. Sheesh, a whole regen for a 2 hour movie that stunk?

Jason Thompson
2010-Oct-27, 10:54 AM
I think they established a number several times and had to revise it when they reached it.

The number was established at 12 in The Deadly Assassin in 1976, mainly as a way of explaining the Master's hideously disfigured state. The Master, of course, has cheated on the 12 regenerations thing several times now. We've reached the 11th Doctor, which would give us 2 more before he supposedly conks out forever, but no-one in their right minds would stop a highly successful TV show because the main character reached a limit on his ability to change his form that someone wrote over thirty years ago!

If you go back and watch the very early episodes it's often quite surprising what was changed or abandoned even in the first few years. We never even heard the name 'Time Lord' until 6 years in, and Gallifrey didn't get a name until the 11th year.

Jason Thompson
2010-Oct-27, 10:58 AM
But how many regenerations had he experienced before we ever met him? :)

According to a scene as written in The Brain of Morbius, quite a few. The Doctor and Morbius engage in a mental battle and the known past incarnations of the Doctor appear. Then a whole bunch of other faces also appear, and the implication from the dialogue, and the intention as described by the producer in interviews since, was that they were also past incarnations of the Doctor. However, explicit dialogue in a number of stories (most notably The Three Doctors and The Five Doctors, but mentioned in others as well) confirms that the Doctor we first see on our screens is in fact the original Doctor, and he had not regenerated before the Cybermen invaded in 1986....

Noclevername
2010-Oct-27, 07:59 PM
Maybe Time Lords count in base-1000 numerics. So 507 (in base-10) if anything underestimates how many he'd have left...

Paul Beardsley
2010-Oct-27, 08:26 PM
I just watched the episode this evening. I think it was overwhelmingly obvious that the 507 line was just a random number that the Doctor plucked out of the air rather than recite a load of fan lore. So they have yet to address it, assuming they do choose to address it, which they might not.

But as Jason said, things change over the years - even major things. In the beginning, it was completely impossible to change history; about a year later, they changed their own futures, and in the following story the main villain was someone who changed history for fun.

Continuity is only sometimes important in Doctor Who, depending on the production team, and depending on the needs of the story.

captain swoop
2010-Oct-27, 08:35 PM
They dropped the Docs family history as well. He had a Granddaughter in his first incarnation.

HenrikOlsen
2010-Oct-27, 09:12 PM
was it ever established if she was a biological or adopted granddaughter?

Paul Beardsley
2010-Oct-27, 09:53 PM
was it ever established if she was a biological or adopted granddaughter?

She was referred to consistently as his granddaughter, without qualification. There was never any reason to suppose she was anything other than that.

Van Rijn
2010-Oct-27, 11:41 PM
Did they drop her in story? I thought there were (admittedly limited) references to her with later Doctors.

SeanF
2010-Oct-28, 12:23 AM
She was referred to consistently as his granddaughter, without qualification. There was never any reason to suppose she was anything other than that.
How, exactly, do you think adoptive parents/grandparents referred to their children? Do you think I go around saying, "These are my adopted children..." when I introduce them to people? They're my children, without qualification. :)

Professor Tanhauser
2010-Oct-28, 04:31 AM
I think it was established she was not his granddaughter in the biological sense.

Paul Beardsley
2010-Oct-28, 05:50 AM
How, exactly, do you think adoptive parents/grandparents referred to their children? Do you think I go around saying, "These are my adopted children..." when I introduce them to people? They're my children, without qualification. :)

Of course.

I'm not saying Susan can't be adopted. I am saying that the speculation that she's not his biological granddaughter comes out of nowhere.

Paul Beardsley
2010-Oct-28, 05:51 AM
I think it was established she was not his granddaughter in the biological sense.

I don't think it was.

Gas Giant
2010-Oct-28, 12:01 PM
I don't think it was.
Not on screen. If the Cartmel Masterplan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartmel_Masterplan) hadn't been derailed by the 1989 cancellation, though...

Jason Thompson
2010-Oct-28, 04:30 PM
I think it was established she was not his granddaughter in the biological sense.

Not in any transmitted episode. It was planned to have a story that would show Gallifreyans to be sterile and reproduce by other means, suggesting Susan was not conceived in the normal sequence of events you would suppose for a grandchild, but the show was cancelled in its original run before that was ever made. it was later written up in the New Adventures book Lungbarrow, I believe.

Also worth mentioning in this context is that the Tenth Doctor referred twice on screen to having been a father (in the episodes 'Fear Her' and 'The Doctor's Daughter', specifically).

Paul Beardsley
2010-Oct-28, 04:43 PM
Not on screen. If the Cartmel Masterplan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartmel_Masterplan) hadn't been derailed by the 1989 cancellation, though...

Er...

First, the Cartmel Masterplan was derailed, thus rendering this argument moot.

Second, despite promising "cross my Galifreyan hearts and hope to die" that whoever the Other was, he was definitely not the Doctor, nosiree, would we do anything as unimaginative as that... anyway, despite that, when the novel Lungbarrow came out, guess who the Other turned out to be?

Third, the Other (who turned out to be the Doctor) was Susan's grandfather.

Convoluted fannish spin-offs aside, in the first year of Doctor Who's broadcast, the Doctor was unambiguously the grandfather of Susan. Anything else is mere revisionism, the (perhaps) inevitable consequences of a series running for so many years.

[Post edited for clarity.]

mike alexander
2010-Oct-28, 09:29 PM
Perhaps 11.99999... = 507 ?

Apologies. Back to your normally scheduled programme.

captain swoop
2010-Oct-29, 07:14 PM
Perhaps 11.99999... = 507 ?

Apologies. Back to your normally scheduled programme.

Don't go there!

JonClarke
2010-Oct-31, 09:55 AM
Also worth mentioning in this context is that the Tenth Doctor referred twice on screen to having been a father (in the episodes 'Fear Her' and 'The Doctor's Daughter', specifically).

And the ninth (in Empty Child) said he had once been a father and grandfather.

Paul Beardsley
2010-Oct-31, 11:03 AM
In the Troughton story The Tomb of the Cybermen, the Doctor referred to his family. In the McCoy story, The Curse of Fenric, when he was asked if he had a family, he replied, "I don't know."

captain swoop
2010-Oct-31, 12:21 PM
Like always with Dr Who things change to suit the plot.

Ara Pacis
2010-Oct-31, 11:03 PM
Well, maybe the Unearthly child is the doctor in another form to get past the 12 limit (well, 12 regen limit, making for the original 1 plus 12 more for a Tom Baker's Dozen). He is a doctor after all, so perhaps he was an obstetrician.