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slasher
2002-Apr-24, 09:08 PM
Okay, for a school project we had to pick a topic that had 2 sides to it, and i chose the lunar landing hoax. After reading up on the topic i believe that we might not have gone to the moon, but there is one thing that sticks out in my mind. Apollo 11 took off on July 16, 1969 and weren't there witnesses confirming that the rocket took off? I'm sorry if this question has already been answered but i really need an answer thank you.

JayUtah
2002-Apr-24, 09:17 PM
Absolutely there were witnesses. A rocket launch is a rather difficult thing to hide. Thousands saw it from the official Kennedy Space Center viewing grounds, and hundreds of thousands -- if not millions -- saw it from that region of Florida.

johnwitts
2002-Apr-24, 09:17 PM
Only about a million people actually witnessed the launch. Either it was a real launch, or David Copperfield pulled a real blinder.

jrkeller
2002-Apr-24, 09:19 PM
Actually, tens of millions saw it take off. About a million on the ground, plus many, many more by live televsion.

Also, several thousand saw it splash down (sailors on the boat), plus millions saw it by televsion.

DaveC
2002-Apr-24, 09:23 PM
Thousands watched it in real life, and millions, including me, watched it on TV. Amateur astronomers and ham radio operators also tracked its progress and the TLI burn was probably observed by hundreds of people.
What is it that causes you to conclude we "might not have gone to the moon"?
Welcome to the BABB where lots of experts will help you understand why we could not have done anything other than go to the moon based on the evidence available.

slasher
2002-Apr-24, 09:23 PM
So the Apollo 11 launch was just a stunt so the people know, (or at least thought) that they were heading towards the moon.

Also someone told me that alot of countries have been to the moon but they coun't of otherwise we would have proof about Apollo 11 right?

DaveC
2002-Apr-24, 09:35 PM
"So the Apollo 11 launch was just a stunt so the people know, (or at least thought) that they were heading towards the moon. "

But you didn't read the rest of my post about the tracking, the observations and the TLI (trans lunar injection) burn. Some stunt!

By the way, what is the nature of your school project? Science, political science or philosophy? It will make a big difference in how you might approach the subject of Apollo.

"Also someone told me that alot of countries have been to the moon but they coun't of otherwise we would have proof about Apollo 11 right?"

Well, even if this were true, the moon is still a pretty big place. Another country going there, unless they were out to prove Apollo was faked, likely would choose different landing sites. You have to wonder, though why any country that got to the moon would keep it a secret. That should be your first clue that only the USA has put men there and brought them back.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DaveC on 2002-04-24 17:41 ]</font>

slasher
2002-Apr-24, 09:42 PM
Well the project is more of a speech, where i have to have pictures, maybe a model and i have to talk about a topic were there are 2 sides such as the lunar landing conspiracy in which i have to either prove it happened or try and prove it didn't happen.

DaveC
2002-Apr-24, 09:53 PM
You won't be able to "prove" either position because the events happened in the past. But you can gather a lot of information and explain why people think it's a hoax and why their arguments fail under examination. All that stuff is available here and at another forum (appolohoax.com) which unfortunately lost a bunch of its archives. You may also want to look at http://www.redzero.demon.co.uk/moonhoax/ which has a pretty concise summary of the arguments and counterarguments. Can't get your questions answered there, though.
Another great site operated by one of the members here is:
http://www.clavius.org
Everything you ever wanted to know is on that site.

slasher
2002-Apr-24, 09:56 PM
Sweet, thanks for all your help.

DaveC
2002-Apr-24, 09:58 PM
My pleasure. Stick around here and there will be lots of others who can help you more.

Ian R
2002-Apr-24, 10:23 PM
Does anyone know if the TV camera captured the launch of the Apollo 11 ascent module? Or did they cut the transmission before that point?

Let me check the ALSJ first...

ToSeek
2002-Apr-24, 10:36 PM
On 2002-04-24 18:23, Ian R wrote:
Does anyone know if the TV camera captured the launch of the Apollo 11 ascent module? Or did they cut the transmission before that point?


No TV of lunar liftoff until Apollo 15, when they used the camera on the rover that was controlled from Earth.

Ian R
2002-Apr-24, 10:47 PM
That's a pity. I found this at the ALSJ:

<quote>[Comm Break. They have turned the TV off to conserve power. Although there is plenty of power remaining in the batteries, there is no reason to continue powering the TV camera. The scene is not going to change prior to liftoff and, at the moment of staging, the circuit that provides power to the camera will be severed along with all other connections between the two LM stages.]</quote>

jrkeller
2002-Apr-24, 11:15 PM
Slasher,

I'll give you some advice now, before you get burned later in life. When someone tells you somebody said ___________ (fill in the blank) and ask them to show you the proof. If you look at the moon hoax sites, you'll see a lot of unnamed sources. For example, a retired engineer at Grumman said this or my father worked for NASA and he has all these photos. Of course no one is ever named and the photos never appear.

I'll give you my own example of one of the problems I have with the Moon Hoax. Quite frequently on hoax websites you will see: the space suits couldn't withstand the high temperature of the lunar surface. When I look at the of information of these websites, I see that they know nothing about heat transfer, including in some cases violating some laws of physics. Tell them they're wrong and you just a NASA pawn, etc.,

Just so you know, I have a Ph.D. in mechanical engineering with an emphasis in heat transfer and have worked in this area for almost twenty years. I've also taught heat transfer and related classes at a university, so I'm not a nutty NASA pawn, just someone who know heat transfer very well.

On the other hand, I'm not an expert on photography, so I use the others on this BB who are and I have to say I've learned a lot.

I think the primary reason, I don't believe in the whole hoax myth is that thousands of people worked on the moon landings and no one has ever come forward and said it was a hoax. How long does a secret last at your school?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: jrkeller on 2002-04-24 19:16 ]</font>

Jim
2002-Apr-25, 12:35 AM
On 2002-04-24 17:08, slasher wrote:
Okay, for a school project we had to pick a topic that had 2 sides to it, and i chose the lunar landing hoax. After reading up on the topic i believe that we might not have gone to the moon, but there is one thing that sticks out in my mind. Apollo 11 took off on July 16, 1969 and weren't there witnesses confirming that the rocket took off? I'm sorry if this question has already been answered but i really need an answer thank you.


Welcome to the BABB, slasher. I hope you will keep an open mind and examine the available evidence.

For a start, here are some Internet links to read. Among them, they offer solid, substantiated, scientifically sound rebuttals to every argument put forth by the HBers.

Internet Sites:

http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/misc/apollohoax.html Yes, We Really Did Go to the Moon

http://www.clavius.org/ Moon Base Clavius

http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/PSEUDOSC/ConspiracyTheoryDidWeGototheMoon.htm Conspiracy Theory: Did We Go to the Moon? (Good rebuttal of the lunar rocks argument.)

http://www.business.uab.edu/cache/this_conspiracy_is_a_conspiracy.htm A Conspiracy of Conspiracy Theories: America’s Moon Achievement Under Fire

http://www.redzero.demon.co.uk/moonhoax/index.htm Moon Hoax? (Good rebuttal of the photography arguments.)

http://zebu.uoregon.edu/~js/space/lectures/lec17.html (http://.uoregon.edu/~js/space/lectures/lec17.html) Apollo Program (University of Oregon)

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/frame.html Apollo Lunar Surface Journal

http://www.nasm.si.edu/apollo/apollo.htm The Apollo Program

http://web.archive.org/web/19980522193628/http://www.skywardpress.com/acritiqu.htm A Critique of "Was It Only A Paper Moon?" A Video by James Collier.

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a11/a11-hass.html Apollo Cameras

http://spider.ipac.caltech.edu/staff/waw/mad/mad19.html Van Allen Belts

http://www.farhills.org/s/lees/space/apollo.htm Apollo Space Suit Information Center

You need to be careful while investigating this topic. You'll find that HBers tend to use rhetoric, suspicions and suppositions rather than rely on fact. When they are rebutted, they often backtrack and claim they were misunderstood, change the subject, insist you don't know what you're saying, or resort to personal attacks. Sometimes they mix and match these tactics.

Simply put: Yes, the US did send men to the moon and did bring them back safely. We have the eyewitness and physical evidence to prove it. All the HBers have is unprovable accusations.