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JonClarke
2011-Mar-17, 11:59 AM
After several years and several thousand posts I have learned much and made friends. However, I have been increasingly disapointed with the moderation here and the time has come for me to leave.

If anyone wants to contact me, please do so by email, jon.clarke @ bigpond.com (no spaces).

Kind regards

Jon

captain swoop
2011-Mar-17, 03:54 PM
cheerio

The Backroad Astronomer
2011-Mar-17, 04:05 PM
Don't like the idea of another member going but good luck in all your endeavours.

danscope
2011-Mar-17, 05:56 PM
Hi, I enjoyed your posts,Jon . You will be missed.
Best regards always,
Dan

baric
2011-Mar-17, 07:49 PM
Best of luck.

Glom
2011-Mar-17, 08:48 PM
Leave? No-one leaves the Church of Scientology.

geonuc
2011-Mar-17, 10:08 PM
After several years and several thousand posts I have learned much and made friends. However, I have been increasingly disapointed with the moderation here and the time has come for me to leave.

If anyone wants to contact me, please do so by email, jon.clarke @ bigpond.com (no spaces).

Kind regards

Jon

The geologists amongst us will miss you.

KaiYeves
2011-Mar-18, 12:07 AM
Goodbye, Jon. Have a nice life.

Spoons
2011-Mar-18, 12:40 AM
All the best, Jon!

Thanks for your contributions and good luck for the future.

Ronald Brak
2011-Mar-18, 12:51 AM
Clarke, you will always be my Superman. Geologically speaking at least.

borman
2011-Mar-18, 01:01 AM
The loss of a practicing geologist who specializes in Mars can not be a good thing for a forum. Goodk luck in your further endeavors. Perhaps we will cross paths yet again in another forum where Martian geological processes hold greater interest.

borman

Sticks
2011-Mar-18, 01:26 PM
This thread is about one poster saying good bye and therefore should not be used to discuss moderations in general any further. If anyone has an issue with a specific moderation the rules lay down the official procedure for contesting such moderations.

Swift
2011-Mar-18, 01:36 PM
The general moderation discussion has been split off into this thread (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php/113741-Moderation-discussion)

djellison
2011-Mar-21, 03:29 PM
After recent events, I've decided to join Jon in leaving BAUT.

Not only is the moderation increasingly disappointing - but the moderation team's response to genuine attempts to help improve are totally unacceptable.

I used to recommend BAUT to people. No more. I don't know where I'll recommend now... nowhere, probably.

Gillianren
2011-Mar-21, 05:35 PM
There are always genuine attempts to help improve moderation, and the mods can't accept all of them. They might even have discussed them before.

Sticks
2011-Mar-21, 06:29 PM
The general moderation discussion has been split off into this thread (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php/113741-Moderation-discussion)

A reminder

captain swoop
2011-Mar-21, 09:49 PM
Cheerio

R.A.F.
2011-Mar-21, 10:07 PM
Not only is the moderation increasingly disappointing - but the moderation team's response to genuine attempts to help improve are totally unacceptable.

That is your personal opinion...that the moderation here is "disappointing" to you..."unacceptable" to you...

Others have differing opinions...there are no "absolutes".

CJSF
2011-Mar-21, 11:03 PM
I also find it disappointing, but not unacceptable to me.

I'm happy to move on, though.

CJSF

slang
2011-Mar-21, 11:20 PM
Bye Jon, bye Doug. Really sorry to see you leave, but thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience for as long as you did.

Spoons
2011-Mar-22, 01:16 AM
That is your personal opinion...that the moderation here is "disappointing" to you..."unacceptable" to you...

Others have differing opinions...there are no "absolutes".

Of course they aren't absolutes, you're right. It was stated in terms that made it clear that was his opinion though.

Sorry to see you go, Doug. I'll just echo what slang said, really.

Does that mean you're also moving on, Christopher? I hope not, but hey, whatever makes you happy.

PetersCreek
2011-Mar-22, 01:37 AM
Okay...as indicated in post #13 and reinforced by the reminder in post #16, please take comments about moderation to the appropriate thread. This is a goodbye thread.

Ara Pacis
2011-Mar-27, 11:13 PM
Guys, if you're upset, just go away for a few weeks to a few months, no reason to make a "so long cruel world" type post about it. I come and go for months at a time, but I've been doing it for over ten years. Why burn bridges when you don't have to?

PetersCreek
2011-Mar-27, 11:19 PM
Why burn bridges when you don't have to?

Since we don't ban or delete members for saying goodbye, their bridges remain unburned. We've had many a member bid us farewell, only to return days, weeks, or months down the road.

Buttercup
2011-Mar-28, 12:12 AM
After recent events, I've decided to join Jon in leaving BAUT.

Not only is the moderation increasingly disappointing - but the moderation team's response to genuine attempts to help improve are totally unacceptable.

I used to recommend BAUT to people. No more. I don't know where I'll recommend now... nowhere, probably.

Why not give your own board more time and attention, Doug? I'd have considered inviting you to a close-knit little group (of people who've interacted daily with each other since 2003), but you threatened to ban me once at your board around 2006 (a real over-reaction on your part; guess you only spared me because I'm a woman) and you did ban a friend of mine (male) for no real justifiable reason. So it seems odd to me to read of *your* being disgruntled with the moderation at BAUT; enough to leave it seems.

Whatever. *shrugs*

Mods, I have nothing further to say in this regard. If this gets me in a bit of trouble, I stand corrected and sincerely apologize beforehand.

PetersCreek
2011-Mar-28, 03:04 AM
Mods, I have nothing further to say in this regard. If this gets me in a bit of trouble, I stand corrected and sincerely apologize beforehand.

If you feel the need to add a statement like this to a post, it's probably best to just not click the submit button in the first place.

Let's not have any more pot shots at people heading out the door, folks.

Jeff Root
2011-Mar-28, 07:18 PM
Ara Pacis,

Jon did exactly the right thing. He decided that he should leave,
and wanted to explain why, so he did. It doesn't help anyone else
to just leave and not explain that the reason you left is that you
are dissatisfied in some way.

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

Ara Pacis
2011-Mar-29, 04:21 AM
Ara Pacis,

Jon did exactly the right thing. He decided that he should leave,
and wanted to explain why, so he did. It doesn't help anyone else
to just leave and not explain that the reason you left is that you
are dissatisfied in some way.

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

I disagree.

Gillianren
2011-Mar-29, 04:54 AM
As do I. A private word to the mods or admins is one thing. A thread? That's quite another.

Spoons
2011-Mar-29, 05:04 AM
But it does offer an opportunity for other members to discuss and add their opinion, their weight to either side of the argument.

Why is that a bad thing? What, people shouldn't be heard unless certain people agree with them? Is it not ok to express disappointment? To make a public goodbye? A number of us appear to be appreciative of Jon clarifying why he left rather than just signing off and never coming back, with no explanation why.

HenrikOlsen
2011-Mar-29, 06:01 AM
As do I. A private word to the mods or admins is one thing. A thread? That's quite another.
At least it's better than leaving with a threat to destroy the board.

baric
2011-Mar-29, 04:40 PM
As do I. A private word to the mods or admins is one thing. A thread? That's quite another.

Agreed. GBCW threads are generally either a cry for attention (if the poster is not really leaving) or an attempt to stir up drama (if he is).

Internet forums should be treated like friendly water-cooler conversations with like-minded individuals. Jump in when you have something to add, or else listen and enjoy the stay. If you place any more importance in them than that, you are going to eventually create drama and look childish.

Tensor
2011-Mar-29, 04:59 PM
Agreed. GBCW threads are generally either a cry for attention (if the poster is not really leaving) or an attempt to stir up drama (if he is).

Internet forums should be treated like friendly water-cooler conversations with like-minded individuals. Jump in when you have something to add, or else listen and enjoy the stay. If you place any more importance in them than that, you are going to eventually create drama and look childish.

I'll disagree here. Long term posters are one of the things that give a forum its flavor. Other posters notice when someone drops off. Gillianren, if you were to simply stop posting, it wouldn't be long before there were all kinds of threads asking what happened. That's why we have the "Missing Posters" thread. I don't see what is wrong with letting people know and giving a reason. Not all such posts are GBCW. Now, if the person did a slash and burn, while burning all the bridges, I agree a thread seems like a bit of overkill.

I made a goodbye post a ways back, just because medical and mental health problems were at the point where I wasn't able to post coherent and I didn't want anyone wondering. Fortunately, a new and different doctor, with a recomendation to a mental health provider has allow me to return. I don't see any kind of drama in Jon's OP.

baric
2011-Mar-29, 05:16 PM
I don't see what is wrong with letting people know and giving a reason. Not all such posts are GBCW.

Yes, if a long-time poster like Gillian decided to leave for non-forum related reasons, then absolutely it would be a great courtesy for her to say her goodbyes beforehand. But those kinds of departures are the rare exception. This thread is certainly a GBCW!

My 2c is that exit threads with complaints are disruptive and should be locked (or deleted) by the mods with the comment (or private msg) "Thanks for your feedback regarding the forum. The mods will take it into consideration".

Otherwise the forum members just /popcorn and watch the GBCW drama play out, which has nothing to do with the charter of BAUT.


I don't see any kind of drama in Jon's OP.

Except that he's overtly blaming the moderators for leaving.

Gillianren
2011-Mar-29, 05:45 PM
If I were to leave the board for some reason, yes, I would probably announce somewhere my intention of leaving. However, I don't think I'd start a thread explaining why if my reasons for leaving were problems with moderation. I don't think it accomplishes anything except a lot of arguments. Would my opinion hold more weight because I've been here so long and posted so much? Possibly. On the other hand, I don't expect the moderators to change what they're doing so that I'm happier. That's not their job. It shouldn't be.

galacsi
2011-Mar-29, 07:37 PM
Good bye Jon , your posts will be missed . I am rather bored too and don't post much these times , may be a natural thing , dont know.

Ara Pacis
2011-Mar-30, 04:09 AM
I can understand some of the sentiment about not liking it when people just up and disappear. That's why when I got sick and had to have surgery and thought I might die, I posted a note on my profile page here on the board.

marsbug
2011-Apr-02, 07:55 PM
Personally I don't mind someone leaving with bit of drama, especially if they feel strongly about why they are leaving.

I also think that if a forum is bringing out the worst in you burning a bridge can remove the temptation to return, and in the long run be better for everyone.

captain swoop
2011-Apr-02, 09:00 PM
Well, I findthat people who announce their departure don't go as far as you think.

marsbug
2011-Apr-02, 09:24 PM
Well I only have my own experiances to draw on... I've taken breaks from BAUT, but always with the express, stated, intention to return. I've fallen out with a forums administrator on another forum and felt uncomfortable posting there for some time, but the argument has been forgotten and I returned happily. On one forum I found certain posters bought out an unpleasant streak in me, and after several weeks of trying and failing to bite my tounge I asked to be banned for the sake of myself and the vast majority of posters on that forum. I still often read posts there that bring out my inner ranter, so I am happy with my decision to ask to be banned.

captain swoop
2011-Apr-02, 11:04 PM
We don't ban or close accounts on request.

marsbug
2011-Apr-02, 11:19 PM
I'm not suggesting that you should, only that I found it usefull on another forum, one one occasion.

Arneb
2011-Apr-03, 04:01 PM
A former BAUTian I met on a different forum told me he had "poured concrete" into his account as kind of a method of self-banning: Deposit an invalid (or soon-to-be-invalid) eMail adress; open "change password", type a long string of characters in a text editor without looking at it; copy; paste into both password boxes; hit submit.

If you ever wanted to return from there, you would have to write a VERY contrite eMail to ToSeek I guess...

BigDon
2011-Apr-03, 06:36 PM
Arneb! Long time no see!

How is everybody's favorite lungologist doing nowadays?

Arneb
2011-Apr-04, 04:20 PM
Hi BigDon, good to see you back from the stone age. I am well, but I've been around less often. You know, real life and such. And I don't know about "favourite" around here, but thanks. A lot.

(Probably these posts are not only off-topic but opposed-to-topic, as this is a "goodby" and not a "welcome" thread. So I'll now make an on-topic remark to avoid a slap on the wrist)

I must admit I never quite understood folks who asked to have their account closed (or put concrete in it) - What exactly is the problem they wanted to solve? If there's something that bothers you about a forum, there are very easy to follow steps to avoid being bothered:
- Don't read
- Don't post (with or without pledging to do so beforehand).
Is that really so hard? I tried it and found it extremely easy to do. Maybe it's because I am not under the illusion that the world at large loses anything from my not telling total strangers my opinion online, but maybe that's just me.

Who said this? "It's a big Internet"

Luckmeister
2011-Apr-04, 04:57 PM
I must admit I never quite understood folks who asked to have their account closed (or put concrete in it) - What exactly is the problem they wanted to solve?

Maybe they're hoping that if their account is closed, the posts they're now regretting having made will disappear. Nope, they're now written in "concrete."

Gillianren
2011-Apr-04, 04:58 PM
I'm with you, Arneb. If you can't stop yourself from posting, do you really want to leave? And if you find yourself unable to stop yourself from posting even though you think it's bad for you, why read in the first place? A clean break is better.

baric
2011-Apr-04, 05:55 PM
I'm with you, Arneb. If you can't stop yourself from posting, do you really want to leave? And if you find yourself unable to stop yourself from posting even though you think it's bad for you, why read in the first place? A clean break is better.

Most people who voluntarily leave are miffed about something, so the urge to get a final shot in is just too much to resist.

My thoughts are, if you are leaving, why poison the pot for everyone staying behind? That's just being vindictive, imo. It would be even better to recognize and take care of the problem before it gets to that point.

marsbug
2011-Apr-04, 07:24 PM
Hi BigDon, good to see you back from the stone age. I am well, but I've been around less often. You know, real life and such. And I don't know about "favourite" around here, but thanks. A lot.

(Probably these posts are not only off-topic but opposed-to-topic, as this is a "goodby" and not a "welcome" thread. So I'll now make an on-topic remark to avoid a slap on the wrist)

I must admit I never quite understood folks who asked to have their account closed (or put concrete in it) - What exactly is the problem they wanted to solve? If there's something that bothers you about a forum, there are very easy to follow steps to avoid being bothered:
- Don't read
- Don't post (with or without pledging to do so beforehand).
Is that really so hard? I tried it and found it extremely easy to do. Maybe it's because I am not under the illusion that the world at large loses anything from my not telling total strangers my opinion online, but maybe that's just me.

Who said this? "It's a big Internet"


I'm with you, Arneb. If you can't stop yourself from posting, do you really want to leave? And if you find yourself unable to stop yourself from posting even though you think it's bad for you, why read in the first place? A clean break is better.

Diffrent strokes for different folks. If you know you can't post you can still enjoy reading the forum passively, and oddly even the posts that used to cause me so much anger no longer bother me; I can read them and actually find them interesting, or at least not offensive.... its changed the whole forum for me, and my attitude to the same posters on other forums, without having to completely give it up. Which would have been a shame as it is one of the most interesting in its subject area, and I can name less than ten really good and woo free ones.

While I asked to be banned that was between me and the administrator - I left quietly without trying to get in one final vindictive post the way I have seen some people do.

Arneb
2011-Apr-04, 08:29 PM
Interesting. Never saw it that way, but I think I can see your point. There are people here about whose posts almost always "push my buttons" and to whom I would be perennially tempted to answer in a way not acceptable on BAUT - if I read them. I resolved to not read them any more, so I don't. I don't even use the "Ignore" function. But I admit it wasn't always so.

marsbug
2011-Apr-04, 10:20 PM
Not reading the posts, or even avoiding whole forum sections is a much better approach! But it needs a level of self control and maturity that I didn't have at the time - in my defence after re-reading what I'd written I began to understand that I lacked it.

As an aside: there are some topics that, for no really apparent reason, seem to bring out the bad temper in even the most reasonable people. I get the impression that the space exploration section here is among them (mods feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). I can't figure out why to be honest, although my own observation is that it is often the manned spaceflight related topics that bring out the most name calling and acrimony. To an extent I understand that, its big money, lots of jobs involved, lots of politics, lots of hopes and dreams. Sadly some very reasonable people have got nasty there, and I've had to exercise my 'walk away and stay away' muscles a lot more than I would like. Thats not a criticism of the moderation BTW, I know of at least one other, very tightly moderated, forum that closed its manned spaceflight section entirely due to the exact same phenomena.

captain swoop
2011-Apr-05, 07:41 AM
I would think more people leave because their interests change or they are involvedwith other things rather than leave because of a grudge or some kind of pervieved wrong against them.

baric
2011-Apr-05, 01:34 PM
I would think more people leave because their interests change or they are involvedwith other things rather than leave because of a grudge or some kind of pervieved wrong against them.

That happened to me for a few years. Nothing personal, guys!

Ara Pacis
2011-Apr-06, 09:51 PM
Not reading the posts, or even avoiding whole forum sections is a much better approach! But it needs a level of self control and maturity that I didn't have at the time - in my defence after re-reading what I'd written I began to understand that I lacked it.

As an aside: there are some topics that, for no really apparent reason, seem to bring out the bad temper in even the most reasonable people. I get the impression that the space exploration section here is among them (mods feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). I can't figure out why to be honest, although my own observation is that it is often the manned spaceflight related topics that bring out the most name calling and acrimony. To an extent I understand that, its big money, lots of jobs involved, lots of politics, lots of hopes and dreams. Sadly some very reasonable people have got nasty there, and I've had to exercise my 'walk away and stay away' muscles a lot more than I would like. Thats not a criticism of the moderation BTW, I know of at least one other, very tightly moderated, forum that closed its manned spaceflight section entirely due to the exact same phenomena.

That's why I avoid ATM and CT.... although when I see the whole site at a glance, I sometimes see names associated with those fora of people I in no way, shape, or form, might find to be useful in those threads. That is to say, non-experts.

marsbug
2011-Apr-07, 12:21 PM
That's why I avoid ATM and CT....

The same here. I try not to be too hard on ATM theorists as I tried it myself a while back and the kicking my idea got was quite painfull, but I wouldn't hang around in ATM for fun.

BigDon
2011-Apr-08, 06:24 AM
That's why I avoid ATM and CT.... although when I see the whole site at a glance, I sometimes see names associated with those fora of people I in no way, shape, or form, might find to be useful in those threads. That is to say, non-experts.

What do you mean? I go there all the time and the only two things I'm good at, three if you count raising youngsters, is picking up heavy things and convincing small aquatic creatures to have sex in capitivity. Neither very usefull in either foru...Hey!

Ara Pacis
2011-Apr-08, 07:09 AM
:D

Spoons
2011-Apr-08, 10:46 AM
That happened to me for a few years. Nothing personal, guys!

Get out. GET OUT!

And dooooooon't fooooorget, to give me back my black t-shirt.

baric
2011-Apr-08, 05:45 PM
Here's a little mood music for this thread: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvPK9kEnjjM

Sticks
2011-Apr-08, 06:06 PM
Or this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9hnJGvyxpE) (YouTube Link)

That said, can we get back on topic?

PhillipJFry
2011-Apr-08, 07:41 PM
More like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9X_msJ-7OI

:p

HenrikOlsen
2011-Apr-08, 07:47 PM
That said, can we get back on topic?
Seeing that the subject of the thread is JonClarke leaving, and there's not really anything more to be said about it that hasn't already been said, subject drift is the natural fate of the thread now.

Moose
2011-Apr-08, 07:48 PM
True enough. I'm closing the thread now. If anybody has a compelling reason to reopen, report this post and explain.