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View Full Version : What's the one piece of Star Wars technology you can't suspend disbelief in?



Van Rijn
2011-Mar-22, 07:33 AM
I thought there should be a companion to the Trek thread. You don't need to limit it to one thing (I'm not) but I thought it would be amusing to keep the title consistent.

Anyway, tech issues:

Midichlorians. Why did they even introduce that?

And people using swords in a battle. I don't care if they cut really well, or the wielder is really good at blocking individual shots. It shouldn't take much to stop them, unless you're using stormtroopers.

Speaking of which, how could there be robots that are even worse shots than stormtroopers?

HenrikOlsen
2011-Mar-22, 07:43 AM
Midichlorians. Why did they even introduce that?
I'm guessing it's a misguided response by Lucas to everyone who keeps saying it is fantasy not sci-fi.
Which basically means it's now switched from being quite good fantasy to being mediocre sci-fi.

jokergirl
2011-Mar-22, 09:21 AM
The design of those pod racers.

parallaxicality
2011-Mar-22, 09:56 AM
Where do you start? The solar sail capable of interstellar travel? The "lightspeed" Millennium Falcon that can travel across the Galaxy in seconds? Pretty much everything about the lightsaber? The Death Star not imploding under its own gravity? The Death Star's laser ray that magically changes direction?

NEOWatcher
2011-Mar-22, 12:26 PM
Where do you start?
Paragraphs of text magically floating through space with nothing to keep them properly seperated into letters and words.


The "lightspeed" Millennium Falcon that can travel across the Galaxy in seconds?
Or in parsecs :lol:

Nope; I consider it complete fantasy, otherwise I wouldn't enjoy it.

As much as I see unbelievable stuff in ST, at least it maintains some roots in science.

Solfe
2011-Mar-22, 01:39 PM
With the exception of Midichlorians and parsecs, Star Wars is completely devoid of science. Oh, wait. Because of Midichlorians and parsecs Star Wars is completely devoid of science. I was too young to object to the parsecs, but when they explained Midichlorians my brain had a BSOD and I had to reboot.

SeanF
2011-Mar-22, 01:39 PM
The "lightspeed" Millennium Falcon that can travel across the Galaxy in seconds?
"Point-five past lightspeed," thankyouverymuch. :D

Extravoice
2011-Mar-22, 01:47 PM
I put my brain in fantasy mode, and had little trouble suspending my disbelief until the Midichlorians were introduced. At that point, my suspension of disbelief was unrecoverable.

NEOWatcher
2011-Mar-22, 02:57 PM
I was too young to object to the parsecs...
I was a teen, so I ended up ignoring it after the first "huh?".
But; I can live with the later (in hindsight) explaination that it was to characterize his idle boasting.

banquo's_bumble_puppy
2011-Mar-22, 03:19 PM
it's funny but I have an easier time with Star Wars than Star Trek- yet Trek is my favorite

Paul Beardsley
2011-Mar-22, 03:47 PM
Robots being tortured. Do they have nerves in their feet?

ravens_cry
2011-Mar-22, 04:04 PM
Robots being tortured. Do they have nerves in their feet?
Considering that when human nerves for pain go offline we are much more likely to injure ourselves, it wouldn't surprise me if they did have sensors of some sort there.

SkepticJ
2011-Mar-22, 09:21 PM
Vehicles with legs in a universe that has anti-gravity repulsorlift. One or the other, folks!

marsbug
2011-Mar-22, 09:58 PM
Lightsabers don't bother me much - I can buy that they are a last ditch weapon of personal defence and as discussed in this thread (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php/113302-Are-melee-weapons-really-out-of-fashion-(in-battles-wars))'edged' or melee style weapons can still be effective against ranged weapons at close quarters. Add force boosted speed to the equation and that lightsabers are often used as a cutting tool instead of a weapon (cutting through doors, opening an animal for sheltering and injured person, cutting free of ice) and I can suspend my disbelief.

But what was the point of those chutes at the bottom of Bespin city that drop you all the way out of the bottom? And why did one open just where luke stopped at that exact moment to drop him?

SkepticJ
2011-Mar-22, 10:28 PM
Lightsabers don't bother me much - I can buy that they are a last ditch weapon of personal defence and as discussed in this thread (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php/113302-Are-melee-weapons-really-out-of-fashion-(in-battles-wars))'edged' or melee style weapons can still be effective against ranged weapons at close quarters. Add force boosted speed to the equation and that lightsabers are often used as a cutting tool instead of a weapon (cutting through doors, opening an animal for sheltering and injured person, cutting free of ice) and I can suspend my disbelief.

In an earlier version of Star Wars, lightsabers weren't restricted to the Jedi. You can find concept art (http://www.originalprop.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/ralph-mcquarrie-stormtrooper-concept-art-star-wars-fr.jpg) of a Stormtrooper holding one.


But what was the point of those chutes at the bottom of Bespin city that drop you all the way out of the bottom? And why did one open just where luke stopped at that exact moment to drop him?

I think they were supposed to be trash chutes. But that raises another question: why'd they build that antenna-thing so close to the trash outlet? Crap'd get hung up in it all the time.

swampyankee
2011-Mar-22, 10:43 PM
Oh, there are so many things, like why have some robots that speak like a 1960's tech, acoustically-coupled modem and others that speak in RP English?

Pardon my ignorance, but what's a Midichlorian?

Delvo
2011-Mar-22, 10:54 PM
The funny thing about Star Wars science to me is that a bunch of the questions it opens up get answered outside of the movies by people other than Lucas, but some don't. For example, the line "No ship that small has a cloaking device" made people wonder why the big ships aren't shown using cloaking devices either, so some comic-book/novel author(s) answered that using one has drawbacks the movies didn't mention, particularly that the ship is "blind" whenever it's invisible. And references to clones made people wonder why cloning wasn't in common use, so some comic-book/novel author(s) solved it with a problem arising from the Force connection between clones and a solution to that problem that can be used sometimes but isn't used more often because it's hard to do and/or little-known. But, even after the first movie made it clear that the Force can help with the aiming and firing of a long-range projectile/beam-type weapon, and then the subject is dropped from the movies, nobody seems to have responded by either creating a Force-using character who uses a blaster with the help of the Force, or presenting a reason why none do. So what makes the difference between the problems that other authors tackle and the ones they don't?

parallaxicality
2011-Mar-22, 10:55 PM
Lightsabers don't bother me much - I can buy that they are a last ditch weapon of personal defence and as discussed in this thread (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php/113302-Are-melee-weapons-really-out-of-fashion-(in-battles-wars))'edged' or melee style weapons can still be effective against ranged weapons at close quarters. Add force boosted speed to the equation and that lightsabers are often used as a cutting tool instead of a weapon (cutting through doors, opening an animal for sheltering and injured person, cutting free of ice) and I can suspend my disbelief.

But what was the point of those chutes at the bottom of Bespin city that drop you all the way out of the bottom? And why did one open just where luke stopped at that exact moment to drop him?

The issue isn't so much their practicality as their possibility.

SkepticJ
2011-Mar-22, 11:08 PM
The issue isn't so much their practicality as their possibility.

And that's what makes it science fiction, that the technology isn't necessarily possible--ever.

Might as well complain about the time machine in The Time Machine, the personal force fields in Dune, or the virtually indestructible General Products hulls in Larry Niven's stories.

marsbug
2011-Mar-22, 11:19 PM
I decided not to go there, as very little in star wars strikes me as being possible based on real world physics.

But..... its basically a high temperature cutting tool right? They strike me as being like very well confined brightly coloured flames. I figure the flames have a 'forcefield' of some description around them to protect the user and keep the flame hot with as little wasted power as possible. presumably the forcefield is delibrately weak to allow ingress of solid objects. I have no idea how a forcefield works tho - but then this is star wars!

Van Rijn
2011-Mar-22, 11:48 PM
Vehicles with legs in a universe that has anti-gravity repulsorlift. One or the other, folks!

Don't forget rockets, like R2-D2's, which were introduced to get a machine with obvious mobility problems out of a tight spot.

Much like Star Trek, they often don't think through the implications of one technology or another. For instance, why aren't military people using anti-gravity or rocket packs constantly for mobility?

Van Rijn
2011-Mar-22, 11:49 PM
Pardon my ignorance, but what's a Midichlorian?

It's what makes the Force work. Of course, it doesn't explain anything,

Ara Pacis
2011-Mar-23, 07:38 PM
I don't mind the parsecs comment, even as a kid I equated distance and time to come to the same conclusion that Lucas was later accused of using as a retcon.

Midichlorians, on the other hand...

IsaacKuo
2011-Mar-23, 07:51 PM
Much like Star Trek, they often don't think through the implications of one technology or another. For instance, why aren't military people using anti-gravity or rocket packs constantly for mobility?

Wearing a rocket pack is just asking for trouble--see how Boba Fett died. As for anti-gravity, they did use it for mobility in the form of speeder bikes. As for why they chose to use it at altitudes BELOW the tree tops...and at clearly hazardous speeds...

redshifter
2011-Mar-23, 07:51 PM
Where do you start? The solar sail capable of interstellar travel? The "lightspeed" Millennium Falcon that can travel across the Galaxy in seconds? Pretty much everything about the lightsaber? The Death Star not imploding under its own gravity? The Death Star's laser ray that magically changes direction?

Or a laser that can make a planet explode?

(one of) My issues with the lightsaber is: how could one hold a lightsaber (or even be close) that is hot enough to melt through a (apparantly) heavily armored door?

Guess the force really is with them...

Still, an entertaining franchise IMO.

Ara Pacis
2011-Mar-23, 08:23 PM
Okay, I can suspend disbelief with lightsabers, assuming that they figured out how to make "hard light" and make the heat directional, but what about the door metal that has turned into red-hot metal, surely some of that heat will radiate their direction... must be force shielding.

HenrikOlsen
2011-Mar-23, 09:06 PM
Wearing a rocket pack is just asking for trouble--see how Boba Fett died. As for anti-gravity, they did use it for mobility in the form of speeder bikes. As for why they chose to use it at altitudes BELOW the tree tops...and at clearly hazardous speeds...
Seeing the way it worked for the various small floating craft, it looks like it actually was anti-gravity rather than just artificial gravity, i.e. a short distance effect dependent on proximity to the surface. Think ground effect.

marsbug
2011-Mar-23, 09:53 PM
One that has bothered me for years: In 'a new hope' we see small wheeled robots scuttling about the death star. They are about six inches high and move very close to the ground. Yet the death star corridor has a number of doors which include a metal ridge in the floor nearly as high as the robots themselves! How did the poor little sods get around, or were they trapped in a given section of corridor?

HenrikOlsen
2011-Mar-23, 09:59 PM
One that has bothered me for years: In 'a new hope' we see small wheeled robots scuttling about the death star. They are about six inches high and move very close to the ground. Yet the death star corridor has a number of doors which include a metal ridge in the floor nearly as high as the robots themselves! How did the poor little sods get around, or were they trapped in a given section of corridor?
It's like those strips you can put down under the carpet to tell a roomba where it can go. Keeps them out of places they aren't supposed to enter.

Ara Pacis
2011-Mar-23, 11:40 PM
Vehicles with legs in a universe that has anti-gravity repulsorlift. One or the other, folks!

Actually, I'm okay with that. It is shown in some scenes to be used for climbing vertically up cliffs and holding onto asteroids floating in space. Maybe it's something in their armor that makes repulsors implausible... though it didn't stop the 'droid army from having hover-tanks.

marsbug
2011-Mar-24, 12:10 AM
(one of) My issues with the lightsaber is: how could one hold a lightsaber (or even be close) that is hot enough to melt through a (apparantly) heavily armored door?



I guess the total heat output of a lightsaber doesn't have to be great if its focussed very finely. A 1 watt lightsaber could still cut metal if that one watt is focused into a 'blade' a fraction of a micron across. Dunno how that explains the huge glow around it. In fact it would make more sense if the 'blade' were a very fine, extraordinarily stiff, piece of wire with an electrical current running through it. Basically a lightbulb filiment made from something extraordinarily strong. It can just fold away into the hilt when not in use. Maybe the glow is just a safety feature to stop anyone accidentally cutting off an arm!

novaderrik
2011-Mar-24, 12:28 AM
maybe the legs on some of the vehicles in the Star Wars galaxy can be explained in much the same way many of our current weapon systems come to be: cushy government contracts given to allies.. also, intimidation. the AT-ATs in Empire and the AT-STs in Jedi could have easily been hovercraft of some sort, but that wouldn't be as dramatic or as intimidating as huge freaking robots slowly walking towards you..

SkepticJ
2011-Mar-24, 01:44 AM
Seeing the way it worked for the various small floating craft, it looks like it actually was anti-gravity rather than just artificial gravity, i.e. a short distance effect dependent on proximity to the surface. Think ground effect.

Except every spacecraft that can land on a planet has them; it's how they take off and get into space. The craft clearly don't have airfoils or thrust vectoring.

SkepticJ
2011-Mar-24, 01:55 AM
maybe the legs on some of the vehicles in the Star Wars galaxy can be explained in much the same way many of our current weapon systems come to be: cushy government contracts given to allies.. also, intimidation. the AT-ATs in Empire and the AT-STs in Jedi could have easily been hovercraft of some sort, but that wouldn't be as dramatic or as intimidating as huge freaking robots slowly walking towards you..

There are numerous rationalizations. I've seen this, and the "armor's too heavy" excuse before. I don't buy either. They can make Stardestroyers hover in an atmosphere under repulsorlift, but an AT-AT is just too much for the technology?

The one rationalization I've seen that I could accept is that repulsorlift technology can't function in certain environments where a fictional energy makes them unreliable. But this clearly isn't the case on Hoth or the Forrest Moon, since Rebel craft use repulsorlift without problems, the Imperial probe-droid flies via it, and the speederbikes work fine.

With the power and mass resources wasted on having scary stomping legs, the AT-AT could have more guns and bombs--things that can actually kill you, instead of intimidate the irrational with gimmicks.

Jeff Root
2011-Mar-24, 02:37 AM
Star Wars was a re-creation of the 1930's space opera serials
Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon. (I don't know if there were any
others.) Those film serials were based on radio shows, where
anything is possible. The radio shows were based on comic
strips, where everything is possible. And the comic strips were
based on stories in the pulp magazines 'Amazing Stories' and
'Astounding Science Fiction', in the 1920's. Star Wars was
essentially written in the 1920's. It is 1920's SF.

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

Inclusa
2011-Mar-24, 06:13 AM
Thanks Jeff! I'm pretty ignorant here....

ggremlin
2011-Mar-24, 06:40 AM
The Sith Lords, only two, the master and the apprentice shall there be. OK, let's go Sith hunting, problem solved, oops no more movies.

Solfe
2011-Mar-24, 07:01 AM
The Sith Lords, only two, the master and the apprentice shall there be. OK, let's go Sith hunting, problem solved, oops no more movies.

They wrote the rule "Three is a crowd."

Even though there are only two at a time, they always seem to have an entourage of people willing to kill to be come an apprentice. Not the brightest of people these hangeroners, but they seem to be more a threat to the heroes than the bad guys themselves. :)

Noclevername
2011-Mar-24, 06:19 PM
The last 3 movies of the series made it impossible to suspend my disbelief; I couldn't believe they were made by the same guy who did the Original Trilogy. For that matter, I couldn't believe the Director's Cut was made by the same guy-- it's like Lucas was replaced by a Hollywood Pod Person some time after the 1980s.

Solfe
2011-Mar-24, 07:05 PM
The first three released were the best. The dialog for the last three hurt. A lot. If you want to amuse yourself, take a drink or clap every time Hayden Christensen pauses while speaking.

CJSF
2011-Mar-24, 07:53 PM
The Sith Lords, only two, the master and the apprentice shall there be. OK, let's go Sith hunting, problem solved, oops no more movies.

I thought that meant they worked in pairs, not that there were ever only 2 Siths! That's even worse than I thought, then!

CJSF

novaderrik
2011-Mar-24, 09:07 PM
only 2 Sith- master and apprentice.. throughout the film series, they kept talking about bringing "balance" to the Force. but in reality about the only time there was "balance" was the 20 or so year period between the end of Revenge of the Sith and when Vader cuts down Obi Wan on the Death Star when there were 2 Jedi (Obi Wan, Yoda) and 2 Sith (Emperor Palpatine, Darth Vader).
what they achieved at the end of Jedi with the Ewok holocaust (http://www.theforce.net/swtc/holocaust.html) was the exact opposite of "balance"- one Jedi (Luke) and a sister (Leia) with Force potential..

Ara Pacis
2011-Mar-24, 09:39 PM
only 2 Sith- master and apprentice.. throughout the film series, they kept talking about bringing "balance" to the Force. but in reality about the only time there was "balance" was the 20 or so year period between the end of Revenge of the Sith and when Vader cuts down Obi Wan on the Death Star when there were 2 Jedi (Obi Wan, Yoda) and 2 Sith (Emperor Palpatine, Darth Vader).
what they achieved at the end of Jedi with the Ewok holocaust (http://www.theforce.net/swtc/holocaust.html) was the exact opposite of "balance"- one Jedi (Luke) and a sister (Leia) with Force potential..

I always thought that balance referred to the level of "good" and "evil" a person could have and still exercise control of the force. Previous to Luke, it seemed that one was either a monk or a megalomaniac, entirely selfless or entirely selfish.

CJSF
2011-Mar-24, 09:42 PM
I was under the impression that there had been, ages before the movie timeline, a Sith order, comparable to size and scope of the Jedi, but they had been wiped out. I thought Darth Sidious (and Maul, for a time) represented a return of that order, and that they had traditionally (in the past age) worked in pairs, master and apprentice - in a similar, but tighter and longer relationship the Jedi had with their Padawans. That would at least make some almost-sense. Only every having 2 individuals is silly.

CJSF

SeanF
2011-Mar-24, 09:53 PM
As I recall from the novelization of "The Phantom Menace," a long time ago (;)), there were tons of Sith. The Jedi basically wiped them out, with only one survivor (I don't remember his name). It was he who established the One Master, One Apprentice rule, in order to keep the continued existence of the Sith secret from the Jedi until the time was right. Darth Maul attacking Qui-Gon on Tatooine was the first time the Jedi were aware that the Sith still existed.

Which, of course, leaves one to wonder how Mace Windu and Yoda knew about the One Master, One Apprentice rule. :)

Ara Pacis
2011-Mar-24, 10:06 PM
In the game, "Knight of the Old Republic", the Sith were an race that had invaded planets and happened to be force-adept.

Noclevername
2011-Mar-24, 10:06 PM
only 2 Sith- master and apprentice.. throughout the film series, they kept talking about bringing "balance" to the Force. but in reality about the only time there was "balance" was the 20 or so year period between the end of Revenge of the Sith and when Vader cuts down Obi Wan on the Death Star when there were 2 Jedi (Obi Wan, Yoda) and 2 Sith (Emperor Palpatine, Darth Vader).
what they achieved at the end of Jedi with the Ewok holocaust (http://www.theforce.net/swtc/holocaust.html) was the exact opposite of "balance"- one Jedi (Luke) and a sister (Leia) with Force potential..

"Balance in the Force" doesn't necessarily equate with "balance in the number of Force users"; anyway, the post-film books, cartoons and the Clone Wars series show that there were plenty of non-Sith-non-Jedi Force users running around both during and after the fall of the Jedi.

SkepticJ
2011-Mar-24, 10:31 PM
As I recall from the novelization of "The Phantom Menace," a long time ago (;)), there were tons of Sith. The Jedi basically wiped them out, with only one survivor (I don't remember his name). It was he who established the One Master, One Apprentice rule, in order to keep the continued existence of the Sith secret from the Jedi until the time was right. Darth Maul attacking Qui-Gon on Tatooine was the first time the Jedi were aware that the Sith still existed.

Begs the question of how Yoda knew at the end of TPM that the Sith always operate in pairs. How could he know this?

That whole Jedi vs. Sith war sounds pretty awesome. That's what should've been turned into a trilogy, not Darth Vader's origin story--a few lines of dialog in Return of the Jedi tells you everything you need to know.

Noclevername
2011-Mar-24, 11:28 PM
I guess the total heat output of a lightsaber doesn't have to be great if its focussed very finely. A 1 watt lightsaber could still cut metal if that one watt is focused into a 'blade' a fraction of a micron across. Dunno how that explains the huge glow around it. In fact it would make more sense if the 'blade' were a very fine, extraordinarily stiff, piece of wire with an electrical current running through it. Basically a lightbulb filiment made from something extraordinarily strong. It can just fold away into the hilt when not in use. Maybe the glow is just a safety feature to stop anyone accidentally cutting off an arm!

The Star Wars wiki suggests that a lightsaber's total energy output is proportionate to the resistance it meets-- it doesn't take much energy to cut air, so most of the time it's just a fancy flashlight, but put it against solid matter-- or another lightsaber-- and it basically turns into a heat chainsaw, pouring energy into the beam.

Extravoice
2011-Mar-25, 12:51 AM
What's the one piece of Star Wars technology you can't suspend disbelief in?

The prequels.

marsbug
2011-Mar-25, 11:17 AM
The Star Wars wiki suggests that a lightsaber's total energy output is proportionate to the resistance it meets-- it doesn't take much energy to cut air, so most of the time it's just a fancy flashlight, but put it against solid matter-- or another lightsaber-- and it basically turns into a heat chainsaw, pouring energy into the beam.

Makes some sense. I read a Star wars novel some years ago with a charactar called Exer Kun who'd really put some thought into his lightsaber ; it was double sided, the blades had variable lengths, and could switch on and off very rapidly so the could effectively pass through another lightsaber. I thought that was the kind of thing more jedi and sith would be doing - always looking to improve what they had.

There were some creatures in the books that were 'force neutral'; they put out a bubble around themselves where the force just didn't work. I loved the idea as it gave non-force powered characters a way to level the playing field, but I was always dissapointed that more characters didn't use it. And if the force is vital to life how come these creatures stayed alive?

In fact I was always surprised that there weren't more anti-force strategies and devices used in star wars. Eg : the clone troopers turning on the jedi apparently didn't show upon the jedis precognition as their precognition senses the emotional content of the future, and the clone troopers were obeying a legitimate order from their commander in chief so they didn't feel much about it. If its that simple to bypass jedi precognition I'd expect there to be some advanced meditation or drugs that supress emotions in use amongst the jedis opponents.

Ara Pacis
2011-Mar-25, 11:36 AM
In fact I was always surprised that there weren't more anti-force strategies and devices used in star wars. Eg : the clone troopers turning on the jedi apparently didn't show upon the jedis precognition as their precognition senses the emotional content of the future, and the clone troopers were obeying a legitimate order from their commander in chief so they didn't feel much about it. If its that simple to bypass jedi precognition I'd expect there to be some advanced meditation or drugs that supress emotions in use amongst the jedis opponents.That explains why they used a droid army to fight/distract the Jedi.

marsbug
2011-Mar-25, 12:24 PM
Its never given as a rationale in the movies but yeah, that makes sense. OTOH there always seems to be a question mark over whether 'droids are sentient and feeling, or some are, or none are and its just clever pogramming. A lot of them certainly act like they are.

novaderrik
2011-Mar-25, 04:52 PM
Its never given as a rationale in the movies but yeah, that makes sense. OTOH there always seems to be a question mark over whether 'droids are sentient and feeling, or some are, or none are and its just clever pogramming. A lot of them certainly act like they are.

after watching the Clone Wars cartoon series from time to time, i've come to the conclusion that most droids are just programmed with a decent AI and not really sentient beings. a lot of the battle droids all say the same things- "Roger Roger"- when told to do something and all have the same stupid response when faced with a Jedi.. plus, the animators have no problems with showing them get destroyed in any number of ways.. the more clever droids like R2D2 and C3PO are more advanced models with a more advanced AI.
i think the battle droids aren't meant to be an effective military force, but rather a cheap way to distract the Jedi and the clone troops in Palpatine's little fake galactic war. they were no longer needed once the clone wars were over, which is why there aren't vast numbers of battle droids by the time Luke, Leia, and Han Solo come along.
of course, i'm sure George Lucas is busy right now having them digitally added to the background in yet another special edition re-release or something..

SkepticJ
2011-Mar-25, 11:22 PM
Just thought of this the other day.

The Death Star's tractor beams, with them, how exactly could the Battle of Yavin go down? Couldn't all those X-Wings and Y-Wings just be pulled into DS hanger bays (or turbolaser fire)?

There wasn't anything Han could do to prevent the Millennium Falcon from being pulled in, what could the Rebels do? Surely anti-tractor beam technology would be available outside the Rebel Alliance (and thus Han the smuggler would have it).

novaderrik
2011-Mar-26, 03:44 AM
maybe the small one man fighters were too small and fast to get a lock on. wasn't this covered in the scene where they were talking about the mission?

SkepticJ
2011-Mar-26, 06:20 AM
Maybe. It's probably been ten years since I last watched the films.

If that's the case, though, it seems implausible. There's not that much of a difference between the sizes of the Millennium Falcon and an X-Wing; not enough to matter for radar, certainly.

HenrikOlsen
2011-Mar-26, 06:26 AM
But enough to matter for tracking with a, by necessity, very heavily mounted beam generator?

Van Rijn
2011-Mar-26, 06:42 AM
Don't forget that the Millenium Falcon came back.

Of course, I wouldn't think it a good idea to force a spacecraft into a bay in the first place. Perhaps a bomb couldn't destroy the entire Deathstar from there, but it's asking for trouble.

SkepticJ
2011-Mar-26, 06:44 AM
We don't know how the tractor beams work. Does the beam generator have to be swiveled on a gimbal into the right direction, or is it solid state?

If it is mechanical, can't they create actuators that work fast enough? Use linear motors to slew it around.

On approach, when they're still a couple of hundred kilometers out, how hard could it be to hold a bead on them? It's not like they're buzzing around like bees.

Ara Pacis
2011-Mar-26, 10:30 PM
We don't know how the tractor beams work. Does the beam generator have to be swiveled on a gimbal into the right direction, or is it solid state?

If it is mechanical, can't they create actuators that work fast enough? Use linear motors to slew it around.

On approach, when they're still a couple of hundred kilometers out, how hard could it be to hold a bead on them? It's not like they're buzzing around like bees.

And how many objects can it hold onto at once? Or are multiple emitters necessary to hold onto even one object. Besides, the MF was trying to get away and the beam was holding onto them. The fighter/bombers were heading in, so perhaps the tractor wouldn't be enough to change their velocity off axis.

novaderrik
2011-Mar-26, 10:37 PM
the Death Star wasn't built to defend against small attack fighters.. or, actually, anything smaller than a planet, really.. they were able to lock onto the Millenium Falcon in the first (umm, i mean 4th) movie because the ship was moving slow with everyone freaking out at the huge freaking space station that wasn't supposed to be able to exist but yet was right in front of them..
as for locking onto the X Wings- even if they could lock onto a small ship moving that fast, they just didn't see the attack force as a threat until that one officer pointed out to the head guy that there was a vulnerability in the area where the rebels were attacking- a vulnerability that could have been taken care of by simply putting a piece of armor plating over that womp rat sized hole that was hooked to a womp rat sized tube that went straight down to the power generator.. but they fixed that vulnerability in the Death Star 2 by making the tube that led to the power generator big enough for a YT-1300 freighter sized ship (such as the Millennium Falcon) to fly thru at high speed while avoiding TIE fighters..

weatherc
2011-Mar-27, 12:35 AM
...but they fixed that vulnerability in the Death Star 2 by making the tube that led to the power generator big enough for a YT-1300 freighter sized ship (such as the Millennium Falcon) to fly thru at high speed while avoiding TIE fighters..

To be fair, they weren't done with that Death Star yet, and it looked like they just hadn't gotten around to completing that area. They were also depending on the shield generated on Endor being around in case they were attacked.

marsbug
2011-Mar-27, 12:40 AM
after watching the Clone Wars cartoon series from time to time, i've come to the conclusion that most droids are just programmed with a decent AI and not really sentient beings. a lot of the battle droids all say the same things- "Roger Roger"- when told to do something and all have the same stupid response when faced with a Jedi.. plus, the animators have no problems with showing them get destroyed in any number of ways.. the more clever droids like R2D2 and C3PO are more advanced models with a more advanced AI.
i think the battle droids aren't meant to be an effective military force, but rather a cheap way to distract the Jedi and the clone troops in Palpatine's little fake galactic war. they were no longer needed once the clone wars were over, which is why there aren't vast numbers of battle droids by the time Luke, Leia, and Han Solo come along.
of course, i'm sure George Lucas is busy right now having them digitally added to the background in yet another special edition re-release or something..

I always thought that the bog standard 'even worse at fighting than a stormtrooper' droids were cannon fodder, designed to be manufactuered and destroyed in massive numbers from the start. Some of the other droids (the big silvery ones and the ones with energy staffs) seemed brighter and more skilled. I don't think they were meant to be no real threat, that makes for a poor diversion; they were dangerous because they came in endless waves without stopping - which would work even though individually they were pants. They were ultimately no threat because palpatine had the off switch for the whole droid army in his desk drawer.

HenrikOlsen
2011-Mar-27, 02:18 AM
To be fair, they weren't done with that Death Star yet, and it looked like they just hadn't gotten around to completing that area. They were also depending on the shield generated on Endor being around in case they were attacked.
The whole point of the "not done yet" look was that is was the trap that caused everyone to come flocking to the slaughter.
Not starting the building process by securing the specific part that caused the previous defeat was so massively stupid that it's hard to think Vader wasn't a very deep sleeper agent acting very long-term to destroy the Sith permanently.

HenrikOlsen
2011-Mar-27, 02:25 AM
I always thought that the bog standard 'even worse at fighting than a stormtrooper' droids were cannon fodder, designed to be manufactuered and destroyed in massive numbers from the start.
You're over thinking this. Their raison d'Ítre was to make 5 three-second-giggles worth of visual gags with C3PO's head on one of them, beyond that and filling up screen time to help a two-movie story last the promised three movies, they had no purpose.

novaderrik
2011-Mar-27, 05:23 AM
You're over thinking this. Their raison d'Ítre was to make 5 three-second-giggles worth of visual gags with C3PO's head on one of them, beyond that and filling up screen time to help a two-movie story last the promised three movies, they had no purpose.

there are a lot of battle droids in the Clone Wars cartoon series, where they mostly serve as things for the Jedi Knights to cut in half in dozens of different ways.

Hokie
2011-Mar-27, 03:15 PM
Paragraphs of text magically floating through space with nothing to keep them properly seperated into letters and words.


They used the force.

marsbug
2011-Mar-27, 08:46 PM
You're over thinking this.

Guilty, I have been overthinking the subject for most of this thread! :D :D :D

novaderrik
2011-Mar-28, 02:34 AM
is there really any way to participate in a thread like this without overthinking it?