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Quantum Leap
2011-May-05, 03:42 AM
I am literally afraid to post anything on this forum

the level of moderation is off the charts

It would be more healthy to encourage discussions and impose guidelines for language and implement the restrictions for posters available to all admins and mods with full access to the VBulletin back-end

seems like every thread I read on this site since joining is more about policing the content posted here and posts from mods imposing suspensions and infractions/bannings

lighten up guys

pzkpfw
2011-May-05, 03:57 AM
This post was pulled out of a CT thread (following a moderator note about a member who was suspended (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php/114584?p=1884133#post1884133)).

This post should not have been made to that thread, it was off topic.

I really don't see why you need to be "afraid". Just be polite and you're past the bulk of our moderation.

Gillianren
2011-May-05, 04:02 AM
It would be more healthy to encourage discussions and impose guidelines for language and implement the restrictions for posters available to all admins and mods with full access to the VBulletin back-end

I'm not entirely sure what you mean here. If it's about the censor filter, well, the rule is pretty simple. Just don't type anything which would get starred out, and if you see that it was after you posted, that's something the mods would accept your changing. As it happens, people get banned very seldom here, because the rules aren't all that difficult to follow.

HenrikOlsen
2011-May-05, 04:44 AM
seems like every thread I read on this site since joining is more about policing the content posted here and posts from mods imposing suspensions and infractions/bannings
Sounds like you've only been reading the About BAUT section and The Proving Grounds.

Try some of the parts that aren't set off for discussing the board itself or for arguing against reality.

NickW
2011-May-05, 05:32 AM
I am literally afraid to post anything on this forum
Don't be.

the level of moderation is off the charts
It's there for a reason.

It would be more healthy to encourage discussions and impose guidelines for language and implement the restrictions for posters available to all admins and mods with full access to the VBulletin back-end
Except you are not asking the VBulletin actually think like a person, which it doesn't. That is why we have human mods.

seems like every thread I read on this site since joining is more about policing the content posted here and posts from mods imposing suspensions and infractions/bannings
You haven't read enough of the threads. You are just looking at the forums where a majority of that kind of user behavior happens.

lighten up guys
I would prefer they don't....

Jamotron
2011-May-05, 05:37 AM
I see a lot more of people complaining about the moderation here than I actually see moderation in action! What's the deal? Can't we all just read the rules when we join up and try our best to stick to them?

Quantum Leap
2011-May-05, 07:10 AM
I owned and operated a large message forum that was run on this very same VBulletin template/platform not so long ago

I realize the mods have a big job to do with this amount of traffic. This is a fairly large user base and there are hundreds of people posting and/or lurking at any given time.

But in my opinion as a new poster who loves astronomy and UFO conspiracies among other relevant topics, I find it annoying to see so much moderator intervention and so many restrictions places on posters.

Also I don't understand why you don't encourage posters to embed videos and photos and instead block the capability to display them and force the user to click a link. VBulletin has its flaws as a CMS, but you are limiting what can and can't be displayed here. It's not as if you are blocking kiddie porn. Why not just allow users to embed photos and videos ? Seems to me that the additional content value would be welcome and not discouraged.

I am brand new to this forum but I assure you I understand the dynamics and chemistry needed to build, grow, and maintain a forum community. You are clearly doing something right here with a huge user base, but I for one don't feel inspired to post here or make an effort to integrate myself into a community like this with such heavy-handed moderation.

I would suggest that you relax on policing threads and just set controls for forum posts to censor foul language. 'trolls' are obv immediately banned, and any habitual problem members get their walking papers

Other than that, the moderators and admins have no legal liabilities to control or edit content outside the realm of 'stalking' or posting personal information

IMO from what I have seen so far here, the admins and mods need to stop taking this site so seriously and let the members just cut loose a little, (provided they aren't dropping F bombs or going on racist rants)

I mean seriously....to ban any discussion of Bin Laden and lock multiple threads about it in several sub forums is borderline Marxist in nature

/endrant

tusenfem
2011-May-05, 07:52 AM
But in my opinion as a new poster who loves astronomy and UFO conspiracies among other relevant topics, I find it annoying to see so much moderator intervention and so many restrictions places on posters.


There is only moderation when needed and that can be for various reasons: discussing ATM outside its place, not answering questions in ATM, being rude and impolite to others, discussing politics or religion. The rules of the board are pretty clear on all of these topics, and following the rules is rather easy actually.



Also I don't understand why you don't encourage posters to embed videos and photos and instead block the capability to display them and force the user to click a link. VBulletin has its flaws as a CMS, but you are limiting what can and can't be displayed here. It's not as if you are blocking kiddie porn. Why not just allow users to embed photos and videos ? Seems to me that the additional content value would be welcome and not discouraged.


As already stated before, it has to do with bandwidth mainly. Not bandwidth of BAUT but bandwidth of the users. Not everyone has superfast internet yet, and thus embedding youtube videos and too large pictures is a problem for those members. This problem can be easily diverted by just posting a link to the vid or to the pictures if they are too large.



I am brand new to this forum but I assure you I understand the dynamics and chemistry needed to build, grow, and maintain a forum community. You are clearly doing something right here with a huge user base, but I for one don't feel inspired to post here or make an effort to integrate myself into a community like this with such heavy-handed moderation.


Well, if you don't like the way we run things here, maybe you should look for a much looser forum, e.g. JREF.



I would suggest that you relax on policing threads and just set controls for forum posts to censor foul language. 'trolls' are obv immediately banned, and any habitual problem members get their walking papers


Foul language (actually bad words) is already automatically taken care of by the board.
For the rest we just make sure that the rules are followed.



Other than that, the moderators and admins have no legal liabilities to control or edit content outside the realm of 'stalking' or posting personal information


We do not edit content, I guess you may mean the change of your embedded video to a link, that is not editing content, that is just policy (see above)



IMO from what I have seen so far here, the admins and mods need to stop taking this site so seriously and let the members just cut loose a little, (provided they aren't dropping F bombs or going on racist rants)

I mean seriously....to ban any discussion of Bin Laden and lock multiple threads about it in several sub forums is borderline Marxist in nature


Stop taking this site seriously is the last thing I would like to do. I like this site to be a place where people can find real scientific topics discussed with (semi)professionals and well informed amateurs. If we stop taking BAUT seriously, then it will turn into a woo site of which there are already more than enough.

As to discussin Bin Laden, I have not the foggiest idea how that kind of discussion falls into what BAUT is actually about, astronomy and universe today, apart from the fact that he used to be a part of the universe.

Strange
2011-May-05, 09:20 AM
Other than that, the moderators and admins have no legal liabilities to control or edit content outside the realm of 'stalking' or posting personal information

Do you mean "liability"? If so, in most jurisdictions, the owners of the forum probably do have legal liability for the content. In part this is because the forum is moderated.

If you mean "right", then they have absolute right to modify or delete any and all content as the forum owners own the copyright on all comments posted. (As you will have noticed when you read the rules before signing up :))

Swift
2011-May-05, 12:29 PM
I mean seriously....to ban any discussion of Bin Laden and lock multiple threads about it in several sub forums is borderline Marxist in nature

ARTHUR: Well, we all are. we're all Britons and I am your king.
WOMAN: I didn't know we had a king. I thought we were an autonomous collective.
DENNIS: You're fooling yourself. We're living in a dictatorship. A self-perpetuating autocracy in which the working classes--
WOMAN: Oh there you go, bringing class into it again.
DENNIS: That's what it's all about if only people would--

:D

CJSF
2011-May-05, 12:52 PM
I think you need to look up what Marxist means.

CJSF

Geo Kaplan
2011-May-05, 03:14 PM
I think you need to look up what Marxist means.

CJSF

"I do not think it means what he thinks it means."

Gillianren
2011-May-05, 04:03 PM
As to discussin Bin Laden, I have not the foggiest idea how that kind of discussion falls into what BAUT is actually about, astronomy and universe today, apart from the fact that he used to be a part of the universe.

Still is, surely. I don't think he's been reduced to his constituent atoms yet.

Buttercup
2011-May-05, 04:20 PM
Generally speaking, I don't have a problem with the Mods.

My only gripe about this board is sometimes (too often lately) the self-important types jump people to "explain themselves" regarding general/off-topic stuff (not ATM nor CT).

Or you can't discuss a current event without certain types trying to cop a superior attitude, as if they are too good to have paid attention to that anyway (and you're intellectually inferior for having done so). And meanwhile they continue posting about something apparently "beneath them" for starters. :rolleyes:

Lighten up indeed.

Fortunately these issues haven't yet become bad enough for me to leave permanently.

PetersCreek
2011-May-05, 04:57 PM
Every once in a while, I feel the need to share an addage from another board I frequent: "Post less, read more."

That's not said to stifle discussion. Far from it. It's said to inform it. Reading the rules is always a good first step but one should also try to get a feel for the customs and norms of the community before making posts that might result in a mouth full of foot. The only way to accomplish that is to read the posts of others...a lot of them. It's also a good idea to do so before recommending fundamental changes to the way the board is run. Our rules didn't spring up overnight, fully formed. They were developed as this community developed.

The board I mentioned previously is a tightly knit community where cigars are discussed, traded, bought, sold, and gifted. The only member with moderator/admin power is the board owner. Policing is largely left to the FOGs...the [expletive] Old Guys. They handle the occasional troublemaker, troll, or scoundrel that comes along. They also set newcomers straight. The process is largely public and sometimes brutal. We're pussycats by comparison. But it works for that community and as a result, I can mail a $300 box of cigars to someone I've never met with a high degree confidence.

No, we don't do things like a lot of other boards...but we're not a lot of other boards. What we have here works for this community. Of course, we make tweeks where needed and sometimes, it's the result of feedback. But fundamental changes aren't likely to result from someone who operated their own board telling us what we should or should not be doing.

Swift
2011-May-05, 05:49 PM
Every once in a while, I feel the need to share an addage from another board I frequent: "Post less, read more."

That's not said to stifle discussion. Far from it. It's said to inform it. Reading the rules is always a good first step but one should also try to get a feel for the customs and norms of the community before making posts that might result in a mouth full of foot. The only way to accomplish that is to read the posts of others...a lot of them. It's also a good idea to do so before recommending fundamental changes to the way the board is run. Our rules didn't spring up overnight, fully formed. They were developed as this community developed.

I believe I read the BA's website for a good six months before I even looked at what was then BABB, and it was probably another six months of reading BABB before I posted anything more than a post or two. Maybe I'm too careful, but I wanted to know "the lay of the land" before I ventured in.

PetersCreek
2011-May-05, 06:07 PM
I believe I read the BA's website for a good six months before I even looked at what was then BABB, and it was probably another six months of reading BABB before I posted anything more than a post or two. Maybe I'm too careful, but I wanted to know "the lay of the land" before I ventured in.

It's hard to believe now but at the time I became a mod, with several years of membership under my belt, I had less that 700 posts to my name.

Swift
2011-May-05, 06:20 PM
I guess we both made up for lost time :lol:

Usher
2011-May-05, 07:28 PM
I am brand new to this forum but I assure you I understand the dynamics and chemistry needed to build, grow, and maintain a forum community. You are clearly doing something right here with a huge user base, but I for one don't feel inspired to post here or make an effort to integrate myself into a community like this with such heavy-handed moderation.

As a newbie myself, I *always* read the posts that get folks suspended or banned. In addition to the rules, you get a good sense of the types of things that the forum discourages. If that results in being intimidated by the moderation, consider this: on many poorly-moderated or unmoderated sites, a few personalities dominate the discussions, bully those with differing opinions, and drive others away (I've left two of these recently). And even if you seldom post, the folks here are pretty smart and one can learn a lot in a short time. Hope you stay!

Garrison
2011-May-05, 07:57 PM
But in my opinion as a new poster who loves astronomy and UFO conspiracies among other relevant topics, I find it annoying to see so much moderator intervention and so many restrictions places on posters.

The restrictions in the CT section are that those who post such theories have to be willing to back them up and answer questions; the moderation usually occurs because they fail to do so.


Also I don't understand why you don't encourage posters to embed videos and photos and instead block the capability to display them and force the user to click a link.

People can and do embed images, though yes there are restrictions on the size. As to video I see nothing traumatic about having to click a link if I choose to look at it. Given the number of videos that tend to get referenced in the CT section embedding would eat up bandwidth.


I am brand new to this forum but I assure you I understand the dynamics and chemistry needed to build, grow, and maintain a forum community. You are clearly doing something right here with a huge user base, but I for one don't feel inspired to post here or make an effort to integrate myself into a community like this with such heavy-handed moderation.


Your video was changed to a link from embedded, in what way has this 'heavy handed' moderation prevented you from making your argument?
I would suggest that you relax on policing threads and just set controls for forum posts to censor foul language. 'trolls' are obv immediately banned, and any habitual problem members get their walking papers


Other than that, the moderators and admins have no legal liabilities to control or edit content outside the realm of 'stalking' or posting personal information

IMO from what I have seen so far here, the admins and mods need to stop taking this site so seriously and let the members just cut loose a little, (provided they aren't dropping F bombs or going on racist rants)

As others have said the rules are much tighter in the Proving Grounds specifically to make sure that those who make extraordinary claims back them up. If you look at Space Exploration etc. you will see that the discussions are much more free wheeling.


I mean seriously....to ban any discussion of Bin Laden and lock multiple threads about it in several sub forums is borderline Marxist in nature


It's a space and astronomy forum, that they allow such discussions in the first place is fairly generous.

Garrison
2011-May-05, 08:02 PM
I believe I read the BA's website for a good six months before I even looked at what was then BABB, and it was probably another six months of reading BABB before I posted anything more than a post or two. Maybe I'm too careful, but I wanted to know "the lay of the land" before I ventured in.

I also read the board for a few months before taking the plunge. I still wonder why someone plunges straight in with a thread in CT or ATM without apparently reading the rules or the multitude of similar threads that went before and then complains bitterly about the moderation and/or responses to their posts.

NEOWatcher
2011-May-05, 08:22 PM
Also I don't understand why you don't encourage posters to embed videos and photos and instead block the capability to display them and force the user to click a link.
My two cents. Even with a high bandwith, I have issues with some embedded objects. For some reason, some of them don't put you at the correct place when you select a thread's last post.
Also; some post rather large pictures that change the entire table width which is very irritating when you have to scroll sideways each time you read a single line of text.


I also read the board for a few months before taking the plunge.
Me too. It was reading the board that enticed me to make the plunge (and even then, I didn't feel that comfortable with some posts).
Most of us are looking to join a community, to share interests with.
Then there are those...

I still wonder why someone plunges straight in with a thread in CT or ATM
...who are just looking for an outlet, or more audience. Some of them are just trying to find anyone to find thier "knowledge" of a subject fascinating. Kind of like a telemarketer... I don't care how many people I upset, there's going to be someone to take the bait to make it worth it.

kamaz
2011-May-05, 08:53 PM
I am literally afraid to post anything on this forum

the level of moderation is off the charts


So far, I have made 1'101 posts without getting banned. Or even infracted. Had a total of 1 thread killed. Apparently, there is nothing to be afraid of.

kamaz
2011-May-05, 08:59 PM
Even with a high bandwith, I have issues with some embedded objects.

Seconded. On other CT boards, it is popular to make a post consisting of 10 embedded youtube videos. Then you have replies containing videos, so when I open the page, I have enough time to have a coffee before my browser unfreezes. So there is no way I could read such forum without NoScript.

PetersCreek
2011-May-05, 09:09 PM
Your video was changed to a link from embedded...

A nitpick in the interest of accuracy:

In the original post at issue, the video URL was wrapped in tags resulting in the display of the dreaded red X:


http://www.peterscreekphoto.com/nullimage.jpg

As a courtesy, I edited the post to correct the tags in order to make the video available via link.

Garrison
2011-May-05, 09:21 PM
So far, I have made 1'101 posts without getting banned. Or even infracted. Had a total of 1 thread killed. Apparently, there is nothing to be afraid of.

And most infractions seem to get handed out for rudeness towards other members rather than the subject matter of the post/thread, so if a CT has a cogent argument to make they shouldn't have a problem.

Gillianren
2011-May-06, 12:42 AM
Admittedly, the majority of my posts were before the infraction system was put into place, but I've had one infraction since the system was put into place, and I've made more posts in that time than some members have in years.

vonmazur
2011-May-06, 02:00 AM
Every once in a while, I feel the need to share an addage from another board I frequent: "Post less, read more."

That's not said to stifle discussion. Far from it. It's said to inform it. Reading the rules is always a good first step but one should also try to get a feel for the customs and norms of the community before making posts that might result in a mouth full of foot. The only way to accomplish that is to read the posts of others...a lot of them. It's also a good idea to do so before recommending fundamental changes to the way the board is run. Our rules didn't spring up overnight, fully formed. They were developed as this community developed.


The board I mentioned previously is a tightly knit community where cigars are discussed, traded, bought, sold, and gifted. The only member with moderator/admin power is the board owner. Policing is largely left to the FOGs...the [expletive] Old Guys. They handle the occasional troublemaker, troll, or scoundrel that comes along. They also set newcomers straight. The process is largely public and sometimes brutal. We're pussycats by comparison. But it works for that community and as a result, I can mail a $300 box of cigars to someone I've never met with a high degree confidence.

No, we don't do things like a lot of other boards...but we're not a lot of other boards. What we have here works for this community. Of course, we make tweeks where needed and sometimes, it's the result of feedback. But fundamental changes aren't likely to result from someone who operated their own board telling us what we should or should not be doing.

OK, you can send the Hoyo de Monterey Excalibur No 1, Maduros, any time you want....;) Or whatever is the latest rage, Extraordinary Larry or something similar...

Dale

astromark
2011-May-06, 08:07 AM
Never start a sentence with and... And when I saw the heading ' A coment on moderation.' I saw 'a comet of moderate...'

More the fool me... I had just done a eleven hour shift and sleep was what I needed... Now I have a second look, Oops.

So sometimes its better to just read and think... Lol.. However I will now after many hours of ZZzzz...'s say that as a rule the rules are fare. They and there enforcement and application are what makes this such a good site.

Warren Platts
2011-May-08, 02:03 PM
So far, I have made 1'101 posts without getting banned. Or even infracted. Had a total of 1 thread killed. Apparently, there is nothing to be afraid of.

You haven't made the watch list yet.

Noclevername
2011-May-08, 05:58 PM
When I first signed on, I was banned twice within a very short time for blatant violations because I simply hadn't read the rules. The fact that the mods allowed me to return, and that I have not been banned or infracted even once since then, shows just how generous they are.

Tensor
2011-May-08, 06:36 PM
When I first signed on, I was banned twice within a very short time for blatant violations because I simply hadn't read the rules. The fact that the mods allowed me to return, and that I have not been banned or infracted even once since then, shows just how generous they are.

I musta missed all the excitement. From what I've seen of your posts, I would have never thought you had gotten banned (more likely you were suspended). A warning or an infraction, tops, not because of anything in your posting style, but just due to your post count and the fact that just about everyone slips somewhere. Isn't it amazing how well "read" and "the rules" go together as a sentence?

Noclevername
2011-May-08, 06:47 PM
I musta missed all the excitement. From what I've seen of your posts, I would have never thought you had gotten banned (more likely you were suspended). A warning or an infraction, tops, not because of anything in your posting style, but just due to your post count and the fact that just about everyone slips somewhere. Isn't it amazing how well "read" and "the rules" go together as a sentence?

My posting style has changed considerably over the years, mostly because of the medications I was on at the time; also because of my inexperience with fora. Some of those rough edges had to be rubbed off-- and of course some smooth patches roughened up. ;)

captain swoop
2011-May-08, 09:04 PM
Heck, I'm a Mod and I got a ban before I was 'elevated'

Tensor
2011-May-09, 05:20 AM
Heck, I'm a Mod and I got a ban before I was 'elevated'

That was training, right? So you would know how it felt, so you would be understanding about those who transgressed.

Warren Platts
2011-May-09, 07:46 AM
When I first signed on, I was banned twice within a very short time for blatant violations because I simply hadn't read the rules. The fact that the mods allowed me to return, and that I have not been banned or infracted even once since then, shows just how generous they are.

Just because you don't have a problem does not logically entail that there is not a problem. The OP has a point. It is a fact that certain members are held by certain moderators to higher standards than anyone else, and meanwhile certain moderators hold themselves to lower standards than everyone else.

See, ordinarily the way one would expect the moderation to work is that a mod will pick a particular forum that he or she is naturally interested in anyway, and then kind of read through the various threads, and then when one finds inappropriate content, then take appropriate action. The other method, that is evidently used by at least one or a few mods, is to keep a personal watch list of various posters--typically ones who have publically disagreed with the mod in question; these disagreements can go back for years, tend to have nothing to do with moderation per se, but have caused a personality conflict. The strategy in this case is to follow around the posters on the watch list to fora that the mod has little to none personal interest and then parse the posts of these posters, with the express purpose of finding infractions. Naturally, pareidolia kicks in, and they find what they seek. This is great, because it saves time--one can keep up one's moderation "quota" without having to do a lot of actual reading. The only problem is, is that egregious violations of the rules go unnoticed every day, meanwhile if you're on the watch list, you get infracted for "tone" for posts that can be considered rude only by a long stretch of the imagination. Then there is the prohibition against name-calling; yet certain of the mods do more name-calling than everyone else combined. Calling adults "childish" seems to be the favorite watch-word; the earlier comment about certain mods "infantilizing" the board is spot on. But if I were to call somebody "childish", I would get infracted (rightly); but if you're a mod, it's apparently OK. Meanwhile, offensive "handles" and avatars are apparently routinely tolerated; e.g., it's apparently OK to name yourself after Nazi weapons used to spearhead an unprovoked war, kill millions of people, and attempt genocide as if there is even a single, redeemable, worthy-of-sympathy aspect to the Nazi regime. There are some here who consider that an obvious slap in the face. Yet, nada... So yeah, I can fully understand why a newby coming to this board and looking around truly might not have a clue.
________________________________________________
"Just give me some truth." -- John Lennon

captain swoop
2011-May-09, 08:46 AM
You have evidence of this?
I don't know any mod that has a 'Watch List' Do you think we have time or inclination enough to follow posters around. We rely on reports by members for most of our info on 'egregious violations of rules'. If infractions aregiven then reasons are posted for all to see. If you disagree then you can appeal by reporting or PMing a different Mod or the board Administrators.
If we don't see them we can't act. If you see a rule violation then report it.
If you have problem with Mod action then report it so the whole team can read it or PM another mod or one of the board Admins.

HenrikOlsen
2011-May-09, 09:27 AM
One of my few very problems with moderation has been the opposite of Warren's, some members got/get away with what I think is far too much for far too long.
Which may actually partially be because a few moderators were thought to have that person on their "watch list", so the rest cut him considerable amounts of slack to not make the moderators look persecuting.

NEOWatcher
2011-May-09, 12:31 PM
Just because you don't have a problem does not logically entail that there is not a problem.
But, if the overwhelming majority doesn't have a problem, then there is not a problem. So; As people chime in with thier experience, we can get the entire picture and not just hear from the squeaky wheels.

I don't have a problem myself. Maybe a few mod comments here and there, but they were valid and I agreed with them.


It is a fact that certain members are held by certain moderators to higher standards than anyone else, and meanwhile certain moderators hold themselves to lower standards than everyone else.
I agree that sometimes personalities can get in the way of influence. That's human nature, but there is a moderation team that discusses this stuff to even that out.


The other method, that is evidently used by at least one or a few mods...
That's a strong accusation especially when you stretch it to multiple mods.


...these disagreements can go back for years, tend to have nothing to do with moderation per se, but have caused a personality conflict.
Go back for years and they still aren't banned? That contradicts your thinking in some ways.

If anything, a poster's behavior may go back for years. If it's a continuing issue, then anyone is going to say enough is enough.


...one can keep up one's moderation "quota"...
Please explain that one. Why would moderation have a quota? If there is a quota, then wouldn't moderators have issued a fairly consistant number of violations issued? I don't see that here. No, I don't have the numbers, but that's not my claim.


...Calling adults "childish"...
Calling adults just about anything negative should be avoided. Now if somebody said a comment was childish and explained why, then that's a different matter.


...Meanwhile, offensive "handles" and avatars are apparently routinely tolerated..
This (and my previous comment), I don't know exactly what examples they are, but I haven't seen that go on without moderator intervention.
Now; maybe I'm not as sensitive as some people and may not have noticed. But; when all else fails, there is the report button.

Swift
2011-May-09, 01:02 PM
It is a fact that certain members are held by certain moderators to higher standards than anyone else, and meanwhile certain moderators hold themselves to lower standards than everyone else.
Maybe it is just that some members have problems following the rules that most members don't have a problem following.


The other method, that is evidently used by at least one or a few mods, is to keep a personal watch list of various posters--typically ones who have publically disagreed with the mod in question; these disagreements can go back for years, tend to have nothing to do with moderation per se, but have caused a personality conflict. The strategy in this case is to follow around the posters on the watch list to fora that the mod has little to none personal interest and then parse the posts of these posters, with the express purpose of finding infractions.

This is great, because it saves time--one can keep up one's moderation "quota" without having to do a lot of actual reading.
That is absolute nonsense and is frankly insulting. There is no "watch list" of specific posters, there is no quota. We don't go around searching out things so we can "get people". Moderators tend to pay closer attention to fora that have more problems, such as ATM, CT, and Space Exploration, and to certain specific threads (like the Bin Laden thread). I have better things to do with my time then follow you or other specific members around the board.

If we were "out to get you" Warren, you would have been banned years ago.


Calling adults "childish" seems to be the favorite watch-word; the earlier comment about certain mods "infantilizing" the board is spot on.
It is more that we call certain behaviors childish, but frankly, there are adults on here that do behave childishly at times. We call them as we see them.


Meanwhile, offensive "handles" and avatars are apparently routinely tolerated; e.g., it's apparently OK to name yourself after Nazi weapons used to spearhead an unprovoked war, kill millions of people, and attempt genocide as if there is even a single, redeemable, worthy-of-sympathy aspect to the Nazi regime.
Now, I'm getting official. That statement is actually an infractable offense. We all know exactly who you are talking about, and you are publicly attacking another member (who happens to be a moderator). No one has ever complained about his avatar - if you actually have some problem with it you know the proper channels to report it. Out of the kindness of my heart you are only getting a zero point infraction.

caveman1917
2011-May-09, 05:36 PM
We all know exactly who you are talking about

Me not being part of that group i thought of pulling up the FAQ (post 3 "who are the moderators") for the list of moderators, and i just wanted to let you guys know that all the links there are dead (board change i suppose).

If someone would like to enlighten me since i still don't know. I'm pretty sure they didn't fight with grapes or mooses, and if my memory serves me well sticks were also out of fashion by that time :think:

Gillianren
2011-May-09, 05:41 PM
Yeah, I'm clueless myself.

Swift
2011-May-09, 05:51 PM
Me not being part of that group i thought of pulling up the FAQ (post 3 "who are the moderators") for the list of moderators, and i just wanted to let you guys know that all the links there are dead (board change i suppose).
Yep, probably from the last software upgrade. If no one gets a chance sooner, I'll work on fixing them tonight (nominally 7 or 8 hours from now). Thanks for letting us know.

As far as who Warren Platts was referring to, I'm going to decline to comment about it, but the moderators know and I think many other people could figure it out.

Garrison
2011-May-09, 06:53 PM
Me not being part of that group i thought of pulling up the FAQ (post 3 "who are the moderators") for the list of moderators, and i just wanted to let you guys know that all the links there are dead (board change i suppose).

If someone would like to enlighten me since i still don't know. I'm pretty sure they didn't fight with grapes or mooses, and if my memory serves me well sticks were also out of fashion by that time :think:

A panzerkampfwagen is German for armoured fighting vehicle, usually abbreviated as pzkpfw.

Hernalt
2011-May-09, 06:57 PM
Volkswaffe (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk52tDKELdQ)?

PetersCreek
2011-May-09, 07:01 PM
No need to continue in this off-topic direction.

Garrison
2011-May-09, 07:10 PM
The solution to avoiding getting moderated is the same way you avoid getting speeding tickets, slow down and think about what you're doing. :)

R.A.F.
2011-May-09, 10:17 PM
The solution to avoiding getting moderated is the same way you avoid getting speeding tickets, slow down and think about what you're doing. :)

How did you get so "wise", Garrison? :)

eta...if all posters would follow the very simple "be nice" rule, then there would no need for moderation.

moonfunk
2011-May-10, 05:55 AM
When I first signed on, I was banned twice within a very short time for blatant violations because I simply hadn't read the rules. The fact that the mods allowed me to return, and that I have not been banned or infracted even once since then, shows just how generous they are.

The level of moderation seems arbitrary if not overtly biased. Numerous members have posted disparaging remarks directly at me, when I object, I am banned.

Post a NASA link that refutes the religious devotion most members have, plan to be banned.

I am sure this post will earn me notification I have lost another point, whatever that is?

Gillianren
2011-May-10, 06:05 AM
I am sure this post will earn me notification I have lost another point, whatever that is?

This statement kind of sums up an issue for me which NCN's post also highlighted.

What, exactly, an infraction point is can be found by reading the rules, surely. This is, to me, the most sensible thing to do before posting. Getting a feel for the community is good. Reading the rules is essential, and yet quite a lot of people fail to do that. They often proceed to get angry if you suggest that they should have done that.

PetersCreek
2011-May-10, 06:14 AM
The level of moderation seems arbitrary if not overtly biased. Numerous members have posted disparaging remarks directly at me, when I object, I am banned.

Post a NASA link that refutes the religious devotion most members have, plan to be banned.

I am sure this post will earn me notification I have lost another point, whatever that is?

This thread is not the place to complain about specific instances of moderation. Please keep it general...and accurate.

For more information about the infraction system, read this (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php/95559-BAUT-moderation-now-using-infraction-system).

moonfunk
2011-May-10, 06:15 AM
This rule earned me 2 demerit points and a week ban:

"4. Remember you will not convince everyone in one or two posts. Take your time to build your argument and be prepared for a long discussion."

Like I said, arbitrary at best.

PetersCreek
2011-May-10, 06:19 AM
Ignoring moderator warnings may net you additional points. As I stated above, this thread is not the place to complain about specific instances of moderation. If you have questions about your case, report the infraction notice or PM a moderator.

moonfunk
2011-May-10, 06:21 AM
I have notified "Moderators" of several instances that were clearly against the posted rules.

Thier reply?

<Crickets> <chirp chirp>

PetersCreek
2011-May-10, 06:37 AM
We respond directly to some reports but certainly not each and every one. If it is decided that no action is required, you may or may not hear anything, depending on the circumstances. In cases where action is warranted, it usually taken in-thread without sending a personal reply to member who reported the thread.

NEOWatcher
2011-May-10, 12:09 PM
Numerous members have posted disparaging remarks directly at me, when I object, I am banned.
Have you considered that the disparaging remarks were in some way incited by you committing a rules violation?


I have notified "Moderators" of several instances that were clearly against the posted rules.
Thier reply?
<Crickets> <chirp chirp>
I rarely report posts, but when I have, I have never recieved a response unless it was a direct question. If it's a violation, they will get to it.

CJSF
2011-May-10, 12:57 PM
Numerous members have posted disparaging remarks directly at me, when I object, I am banned.?

Suspended.

Could you post a link to any of these numerous, disparaging remarks? Sometimes some members get a bit zealous at disparaging ideas, but in general, not the person. When that starts to happen, more often than not, I see moderation warning against such remarks. A very sure way to earn an infraction is to complain about the moderation, especially after being warned not to.

CJSF

captain swoop
2011-May-10, 01:19 PM
Complaints or questions about Moderation in a thread cause disruption. That's why we don't like it. Every post has a triangle that can be used to raise an issue with the whole of the Moderation team and a PM can be sent to individual Mods or to the two board Admins.

ToSeek
2011-May-10, 02:14 PM
As already stated before, it has to do with bandwidth mainly. Not bandwidth of BAUT but bandwidth of the users. Not everyone has superfast internet yet, and thus embedding youtube videos and too large pictures is a problem for those members. This problem can be easily diverted by just posting a link to the vid or to the pictures if they are too large.

The other issue is the bandwidth of the site hosting the pictures. Some site owners really do not like hotlinking directly into photos hosted on their site. Unless it's someone noncommercial, like NASA or ESA, it's generally considered very rude to link directly to imagery hosted elsewhere while skirting the surrounding content (which may include advertising that the site depends on to survive).

tommac
2011-May-10, 03:24 PM
Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
You step out of line, the man come and take you away



I am literally afraid to post anything on this forum

the level of moderation is off the charts

It would be more healthy to encourage discussions and impose guidelines for language and implement the restrictions for posters available to all admins and mods with full access to the VBulletin back-end

seems like every thread I read on this site since joining is more about policing the content posted here and posts from mods imposing suspensions and infractions/bannings

lighten up guys

tommac
2011-May-10, 03:26 PM
Suspended.

Is that newspeak for "banned"? With a softer gentler sound to it.

tommac
2011-May-10, 03:29 PM
What I dont get is that there are posts on ATM that dont even follow the rules at all. So there seems to be some incosistency in how rule #4 and some of the other ATM rules are enforced.

Does the ATM section have a "mission statement" of sorts?


This rule earned me 2 demerit points and a week ban:

"4. Remember you will not convince everyone in one or two posts. Take your time to build your argument and be prepared for a long discussion."

Like I said, arbitrary at best.

tommac
2011-May-10, 03:32 PM
How many people who have already posted to this thread have gotten suspended from Baut at one time or another?

One time I just thought about posting an ATM in the Q/A and I got suspended. ;-)

It was just a preemptive Shh

agingjb
2011-May-10, 04:11 PM
I have taken some care to keep within the stated rules (and have not yet been suspended or infracted). I like the particular form of BAUT created by the rules and moderation - there's a whole net for different approaches.

Curiously, for someone who approves of most moderation here, my occasional PMs and flaggings have often been suggestions for clemency. I'm not a lover of perpetual (or is it eternal) bans, allowing people to be needled into infraction, or breaking butterflies on wheels.

If I am ever infracted, I'll think long and hard; and if I am ever daft enough to be suspended, I'll take that as a sign that I'm losing it in a way that indicates that I should stop posting.

Jim
2011-May-10, 04:15 PM
Is that newspeak for "banned"? With a softer gentler sound to it.

A Member can be suspended for a finite time or banned permanently.

Noclevername
2011-May-10, 04:22 PM
A Member can be suspended for a finite time or banned permanently.

Then I guess my bannings were suspensions after all. (I don't know if the same terminology was in use when I first got here.) I do know that I was warned that the next one would be permanent.

BetaDust
2011-May-10, 04:32 PM
Then I guess my bannings were suspensions after all. (I don't know if the same terminology was in use when I first got here.) I do know that I was warned that the next one would be permanent.

Nope, It was not. For a long time here at BAUT, "suspensions" where called "banned". I think the admin's changed the vBulletin settings some time ago.

-- Dennis

HenrikOlsen
2011-May-10, 05:18 PM
<Crickets> <chirp chirp>
You can't see the interaction the moderators had with the other person, and unless an infraction resulted in a suspension you won't see any direct result and therefore you can't know if anything happened.

As for a reply, in general don't expect one. This is not the same as nothing happenes.

HenrikOlsen
2011-May-10, 05:26 PM
Then I guess my bannings were suspensions after all. (I don't know if the same terminology was in use when I first got here.) I do know that I was warned that the next one would be permanent.
As BetaDust said, it used to be that all punishments that involved being unable to post were called bans/being banned, and the banned members had a title of "banned" whether temporary or permanent. Later, to distinguish between temporary and permanent bans, we started calling the former suspensions. Later yet, the board software was adjusted so the title reflects whether it's a suspension or a ban.

Moose
2011-May-10, 05:33 PM
Many of the mod team are currently saddled with fuller-than-full-time job schedules, and have been for a while. Replying to every report (or even most of them) simply isn't possible. We do read them all, though.

And yeah, a bunch of vBulletin revisions ago, it became possible to define two "no access" groups. One for permanently banned users, one for temporarily suspended users. Cuts down on some of the questions we used to get about the length and permanence of certain disciplinary actions.

tommac
2011-May-10, 07:41 PM
As BetaDust said, it used to be that all punishments that involved being unable to post were called bans/being banned, and the banned members had a title of "banned" whether temporary or permanent. Later, to distinguish between temporary and permanent bans, we started calling the former suspensions. Later yet, the board software was adjusted so the title reflects whether it's a suspension or a ban.

It would be cool if they can come up with a cooler more exciting word for those that are really banned here are some ideas:

Banished from this Universe
Flushed down the Black Hole
Baut Membership Terminated
Swept Away by the Hubble Flow

All much cooler than just "banned"

NEOWatcher
2011-May-10, 07:49 PM
All much cooler than just "banned"
I think this is one of those ideas that just needs to be clear and simple.
Besides, it might be cool once or twice, but it's definitely gonna get old fast.

"We was banished from Woolworth’s. I don’t know everett, was it jest that one or the whole chain?"

agingjb
2011-May-10, 07:49 PM
I would have thought that establishing an irreversible state of antipathy (which I can only assume must extend to encounters outside this forum) hardly required a "cool" description.

HenrikOlsen
2011-May-10, 07:59 PM
It would be cool if they can come up with a cooler more exciting word for those that are really banned here are some ideas:
Gone for good riddance.

tommac
2011-May-10, 08:07 PM
Gone for good riddance.

This is an A & B board so C your way out.

PetersCreek
2011-May-10, 08:10 PM
This is not a joke thread. If that's all folks have left, we can bring this one to a close.

HenrikOlsen
2011-May-10, 08:29 PM
It's already gone off-track several times, which tends to be a symptom that the main subject is done.

PetersCreek
2011-May-10, 08:40 PM
Since the OP hasn't participated since May 4th, I would agree that it's done. Thread closed.

If anyone has good reason to reopen, report this post.