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MaryB
2011-May-11, 04:12 PM
Alan Bean seems dim witted. I do not believe he was a real astronaut.

Swift
2011-May-11, 04:49 PM
Alan Bean seems dim witted. I do not believe he was a real astronaut.
MaryB,

First, welcome to BAUT.

Second, your statement that Alan Bean is not an astronaut is most definitely a non-mainstream/conspiracy belief. As such, you will be expected to follow our rules about such things. I very strongly suggest that you review our Advice for Conspiracy Theory supporters (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php/86593-Advice-for-Conspiracy-Theory-Supporters), and our rules (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php/32864-Rules-For-Posting-To-This-Board) (particularly rule 13). If you are not prepared to support your claim, please say so immediately, and this thread will be closed.

NickW
2011-May-11, 04:52 PM
Alan Bean seems dim witted. I do not believe he was a real astronaut.

And it would be up to you to prove that. Trying to prove he was not an astronaut by picking out an interview that was more then likely edited to make him look like an idiot, by someone who already believes that moon landings didn't happen isn't going to help your case. Please consider all the evidence.

MaryB
2011-May-11, 04:53 PM
Alan Bean lost his temper in the interview. He swore (F word) and let Bart Sibrel walk all over him. That is proof. If he cannot take on Sibrel, how could he put on a spacesuit let alone fly a spaceship. This is pathetic!

NickW
2011-May-11, 04:57 PM
Alan Bean lost his temper in the interview. He swore (F word) and let Bart Sibrel walk all over him. That is proof. If he cannot take on Sibrel, how could he put on a spacesuit let alone fly a spaceship. This is pathetic!

And what does swearing and losing your temper have anything to do with walking on the moon or being in space?

MaryB
2011-May-11, 05:05 PM
I watched Bart Sibrel's movie Astronauts gone Wild with my 2 best friends last night. My friend Pam thinks the astronauts are totally fake too because they lose their tempers. They also seem very average in intelligence. They cannot possibly have done what they said they did. What an embarrassment and I never knew. My other friend Patrick is a scientist and smarter than Pam and me in a conventional sense. He believes this nonsense. Do You?

MaryB
2011-May-11, 05:09 PM
Confidence! Self Assurance! Astronaut? Hardly! Swearing at a stooge is the only way he could defend himself?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I repeat, PATHETIC! What an embarrassment! The average PE teacher has more self confidence than Bean, literally. FARCE!

Tensor
2011-May-11, 05:12 PM
Alan Bean lost his temper in the interview.

And other astronauts have lost their tempers, especially with Sibrel's aggressive interview style, and your point is?



He swore (F word)

Other astronauts have swore at Sibrel (one punched him), and your point is?


and let Bart Sibrel walk all over him.

Because he chooses not to address someone who aggressively questions him on something that Bean knows happened, does not mean that Sibrel walked all over him. And, first you claim he lost his temper and swore, now you say Sibrel walked all over him, which is it?



That is proof. If he cannot take on Sibrel, how could he put on a spacesuit let alone fly a spaceship. This is pathetic!

Sorry, that is not proof, that is just your opinion. Check out the NASA bio on him here (http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/Bios/htmlbios/bean-al.html). NASA has him as an astronaut. There are also numerous photos of him walking to Apollo 12 before launch, video of him entering the capsule, videos and pictures of him walking from the helicopter and to and entering the containment chamber after slashdown. Your claim has no merit, as it's just opinion, unless of course you can provide some proof that all of those photos and videos are wrong.

Amber Robot
2011-May-11, 05:15 PM
If Alan Bean were not a real astronaut why would Sibrel be interviewing him?

Gillianren
2011-May-11, 05:20 PM
Thanks for the fix, mods!

Being interviewed and walking in space require very different skill sets, Mary, wouldn't you agree? Besides, most of the astronauts were military men. I would think it would have been out of character if none of them ever swore.

MaryB
2011-May-11, 05:20 PM
My point is they all did not go to the moon! A real Apollo astronaut, a person that landed on the moon would not punch Sibrel. Aldrin is an embarrassment! Sibrel is a weak opponent and apparently Aldrin is weaker still. If Bean was a real astronaut, a real moon walker then Bean would say calmly, I am sorry Mr. Sibrel but this interview is over. Here is the door. Goodbye. How stupid can he be? You don't talk to somebody like Sibrel if his point of view is as ridiculous as everyone here seems to think it is. How embarrassing! I never knew about any of this. I feel foolish. I hate NASA!

MaryB
2011-May-11, 05:23 PM
He swears because Sibrel exposes his fakeness. It is the setting of the cursing. You don't use the F word in an interview if you are a real astronaut, especially when interviewed by a hostile opponent. This is a joke joke joke!

Swift
2011-May-11, 05:24 PM
MaryB,

I see you started a second thread on this topic. That's actually a good idea. I've moved your posts from the Alan Bean/Van Allen Belts thread to here.

MaryB
2011-May-11, 05:26 PM
Sibrel interviews Bean to elicit this very response. Bean plays right into Sibrel's hands. Bean gives Sibrel exactly what he is looking for. He is interviewing a fake astronaut and he knows it. He gets the fake, dishonest answers he was looking for and I honestly cannot believe anyone that looks at the Bean interview would find him believable. What a joke joke joke joke!

Swift
2011-May-11, 05:28 PM
Confidence! Self Assurance! Astronaut? Hardly! Swearing at a stooge is the only way he could defend himself?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I repeat, PATHETIC! What an embarrassment! The average PE teacher has more self confidence than Bean, literally. FARCE!
MaryB,

Have you ever met any pilots, particularly military pilots (such as test pilots or fighter pilots)? You need to remember that during those years of the space program, that is what these guys were. The majority of them were extremely confident, but they were also not quiet people who were going to be pushed around. Swearing and punching people were probably pretty normal behavior for them.

Neil Armstrong is a very quiet, calm guy (almost shy). Does that mean you think he is an astronaut?

LaurelHS
2011-May-11, 05:28 PM
MaryB, have you watched/read any interviews with Alan Bean where he's not being harassed by an obnoxious conspiracy theorist? Some examples are the documentary In The Shadow Of The Moon, the Apollo 12 Lunar Surface Journal (http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a12/a12j.html), and the book Voices From The Moon by Andrew Chaikin. He seemed to enjoy talking about Apollo 12 in those situations. If you were an astronaut, who would you rather talk to? A historian like Chaikin or Eric Jones who has a genuine interest in Apollo or a conspiracy theorist who stalks you and twists everything you say?

MaryB
2011-May-11, 05:36 PM
My friend Patrick made me watch 2 films on Apollo which were pro official story. In one of them Bean speaks a great deal as do many astronauts. One of the films was astronaut interview based. They are semi believable. I stand firm, any real astronaut would not engage in such nonsense, nonsense meaning the Sibrel interview, ergo it is nonsense.

MaryB
2011-May-11, 05:41 PM
What is convincing about Sibrel is that almost all the fake astronauts behave similarly, very much not composed. Land a lunar module?!!!!!!! Bull!!! Their heart rates go up arguing with a stooge. Look at the sweat rings under Cernan's arm pits. He looks like he needs his fake cooling jacket from that ridiculously fake spacesuit. PATHETIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sibrel is not a smart man and he winds up looking way smarter than the supposed astronauts.

Swift
2011-May-11, 05:49 PM
And what does swearing and losing your temper have anything to do with walking on the moon or being in space?

Because he chooses not to address someone who aggressively questions him on something that Bean knows happened, does not mean that Sibrel walked all over him. And, first you claim he lost his temper and swore, now you say Sibrel walked all over him, which is it?


If Alan Bean were not a real astronaut why would Sibrel be interviewing him?

Have you ever met any pilots, particularly military pilots (such as test pilots or fighter pilots)?

Neil Armstrong is a very quiet, calm guy (almost shy). Does that mean you think he is an astronaut?
MaryB,

I earlier suggested that you read the Advice and the Rules. One of the rules for the CT forum is that you need to answer direct questions that are put to you. I have listed above some of the questions that have been asked. You need to answer these. It would be helpful if you did that by using the Quote function - go to the post with the question and click on the "Reply With Quote" button in the lower right corner, and type in your answer. But you need to address these questions.

Gillianren
2011-May-11, 05:50 PM
My friend Patrick made me watch 2 films on Apollo which were pro official story. In one of them Bean speaks a great deal as do many astronauts. One of the films was astronaut interview based. They are semi believable. I stand firm, any real astronaut would not engage in such nonsense, nonsense meaning the Sibrel interview, ergo it is nonsense.

Mary, how much do you know about Sibrel's interview techniques? For example, do you know the specifics of the Aldrin incident? And consider this a direct question under the rules.

Also a direct question--what do their interview skills, or lack thereof, have to do with their skills as astronauts? Do you think they require the exact same skill set?

LaurelHS
2011-May-11, 05:51 PM
Maybe Cernan was sweating was because he was outside in Houston in summer as member JRKeller noted in his Amazon review (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BJKWP8/ref=cm_rdp_product/102-4580266-1392907). Even astronauts are affected by humidity.

LaurelHS
2011-May-11, 05:54 PM
He looks like he needs his fake cooling jacket from that ridiculously fake spacesuit.
Okay, since you're an expert, what was wrong with the Apollo suit design and how would you design a spacesuit?

R.A.F.
2011-May-11, 05:59 PM
...any real astronaut would not engage in such nonsense, nonsense meaning the Sibrel interview, ergo it is nonsense.

So "if" the astronauts did not consent to an interview with Sibrel...in other words, "if" Sibrel misrepresented himself in order to "get" an interview with the astronauts....then would they be "real" astronauts???

MartianMarvin
2011-May-11, 05:59 PM
If swearing precludes one from being an astronaut, Pete Conrad would never even have been considered for the job.

MaryB
2011-May-11, 06:03 PM
I answered Nick's question. If you can walk on the moon, you have nerves of steel, you don't lose your temper in an interview with a half wit.

To Tensor, Bean very much does choose to answer and that is my point, a real astronaut would not choose to answer. A real astronaut would show Sibrel the door.

Again Tensor, Bean both loses his temper and is walked all over. F word equates to temper loss. This is on camera, no one in his or her right mind would swear like that unless they lost their temper. F word equates to temper loss. Look at the film. He is walked all over. Sibrel knows they passed through the van Allen belts and Bean does not, ergo Bean doesn't know squat about his own journey.

I answered amber already but will do so again. He is interviewing a very much not real astronaut and gets the response he is looking for. If Bean were a real astronaut, Sibrel would not interview him. The reason for the interview is Bean is a phony. Sibrel would have no reason to interview a real astronaut as Sibrel's entire premise is the whole thing is fraudulent.

I live in Oakland California. there are many military people in the area. We have an air show in San Francisco every fall. I have met several pilots, military pilots.

Armstrong lost his temper too with Sibrel. He is fake also. No I do not believe him to be a real moon walker.

Next direct question please.

R.A.F.
2011-May-11, 06:04 PM
...I honestly cannot believe anyone that looks at the Bean interview would find him believable. What a joke joke joke joke!

What you do or no not find "believable" is irrelevant...evidence is not...

I patiently await that evidence.

Garrison
2011-May-11, 06:13 PM
Actually I suspect Mr. Sibrel would be the first to admit that even the most capable and intelligent of people can lose their temper and behave badly at times:


In July 2009, Sibrel, who also works as a Nashville cab driver, was charged with vandalism when he jumped up and down on the hood of a car owned by a woman with whom he was having a parking dispute. Court documents show he was arrested after the driver refused to pull out of a parking space he wanted. The arresting officer wrote, "A few moments later, the parking space in front of the victim opened up and [Sibrel] drove into it and parked." Sibrel "then walked up to the victim's car and jumped onto the hood, and then jumped up and down several times." The report says he caused about $1,400 in damages, after which Sibrel pleaded guilty to vandalism and was placed on probation.[8]

Quote courtesy of the Wiki article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bart_Sibrel#Legal_troubles) on Bart Sibrel

LaurelHS
2011-May-11, 06:16 PM
Next direct question please.
I already asked you this direct question. You said the Apollo suit was "ridiculously fake." Why was it ridiculous, and how do you think a spacesuit should be designed?

BertL
2011-May-11, 06:17 PM
They can't possibly be real astronauts! They got angry because somebody harassed them and called them liars to their face!

Some baffling logic at work here...

Extravoice
2011-May-11, 06:18 PM
I stand firm, any real astronaut would not engage in such nonsense, nonsense meaning the Sibrel interview....

Your reasoning confuses me. In your opinion, a real astronaut would not stand for Sibrel's tactics, but then you fault Bean for swearing at him?

Of course, as previously pointed out, neither your opinion of how an astronaut should behave nor mine is relevant to whether Alan Bean ever went to the moon.

PetersCreek
2011-May-11, 06:21 PM
I live in Oakland California. there are many military people in the area. We have an air show in San Francisco every fall. I have met several pilots, military pilots.

I am a USAF veteran and actually worked with a great many fighter pilots. I don't agree that your expectations of their behavior is reasonable or well informed.

Van Rijn
2011-May-11, 06:23 PM
They can't possibly be real astronauts! They got angry because somebody harassed them and called them liars to their face!

Some baffling logic at work here...

It certainly is one of the most unusual claims I've seen.

MaryB
2011-May-11, 06:23 PM
Gillianren, Sibrel is a hostile ambush artist. That is his technique of choice. The astronauts do require some of the same skills, responding calmly to a threat. Sibrel is a threat, show him the door. Don't lose your cool. Same on the moon, trouble landing? Don't lose your cool. Pathetic!!!!!!!

Maybe Cernan was affected by humidity, maybe he was sweating like cray because he was nervous. I think the latter. He lost his temper like most of the others.

I do not design suits, the statement was made as a literary device. My claim is bean is a fake and the suit therefore never went to the moon. The suit may work well, it may work perfectly. My claim is Bean never had the opportunity to use the suit.

Martian, this has nothing to do with swearing in and of itself, swearing is evidence for losing one's temper, one's cool. Swearing ON CAMERA! Mitchell does it too. who cares if a pilot swears? i do not. But losing your temper and cool this way is a polygraph test of sorts, metaphorically speaking, but the point I believe is a good one.

Bean does not know if he flew through the van Allan belt or night. That is my evidence. He did not know the details of his journey. If I fly from NY to Paris I know I fly over the Atlantic Ocean R.A.F.. Bean doesn't know if he did or did not goe through the belt he had to pass through to go to the moon. That is my evidence.

Next direct question please.

R.A.F. to directly answer the question, they would be real astronauts if they showed Sibrel the door. It has nothing to do with agreeing to the interview and everything to do with handling yourself welll under pressure. PATHETIC!!!!!!!!!!!! FAKE!!!!!!!!!!! Clear enough?

MaryB
2011-May-11, 06:26 PM
I disagree Brett though I respect your experience. these are not garden variety fighter pilots, they are moon walkers. One is not the same as the other.

MaryB
2011-May-11, 06:27 PM
Extravoice, the interview never should have gotten that far, the swearing part. One identifies Sibrel as hostile, show him the door. long before the swearing.

LaurelHS
2011-May-11, 06:28 PM
Why was the Apollo spacesuit ridiculously fake, MaryB? You asked for direct questions, I gave you one, please answer it and support your claim.

MaryB
2011-May-11, 06:28 PM
Garrison, your point is out of context, these are high profile public figures in on camera interviews with a hostile party. show them the door.

MaryB
2011-May-11, 06:32 PM
LaurelHS. My point about the suit was metaphorical, a literary device. The suit may very well work, work perfectly. The point is Bean never had a chance to use the suit. Its capabilities are irrelevant. In that regard the suit is fake, as it has no real application apart from its genuine capabilities were someone to try it out on the moon. The suit is "fake" because it was never employed on the moon's surface, not because it is not a suit one might not actually be able to use on the moon if you could get there.

LaurelHS
2011-May-11, 06:33 PM
Do you believe that Bean's Skylab flight was real? What about the Gemini flights of other astronauts in Sibrel's video? Were those real? Do you have any proof for your Apollo hoax claims besides a personal opinion about astronauts' behaviour?

R.A.F.
2011-May-11, 06:34 PM
The suit may very well work, work perfectly. The point is Bean never had a chance to use the suit.

I tire of your "opinions"...when will you be presenting evidence instead of opinions??

redshifter
2011-May-11, 06:36 PM
Extravoice, the interview never should have gotten that far, the swearing part. One identifies Sibrel as hostile, show him the door. long before the swearing.

How does 'letting the interview go too far' relate to the astronauts being 'fake and phony'? Does this apply to other professions?

Still waiting for your evidence regarding the claims you made about the astronaut's suits.

Tensor
2011-May-11, 06:36 PM
You missed this one:


Sorry, that is not proof, that is just your opinion. Check out the NASA bio on him here (http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/Bios/htmlbios/bean-al.html). NASA has him as an astronaut. There are also numerous photos of him walking to Apollo 12 before launch, video of him entering the capsule, videos and pictures of him walking from the helicopter and to and entering the containment chamber after splashdown. Your claim has no merit, as it's just opinion, unless of course you can provide some proof that all of those photos and videos are wrong.

Note the bold. Do you have any evidence that any of those photos and videos are wrong?

PetersCreek
2011-May-11, 06:36 PM
Bean does not know if he flew through the van Allan belt or night. That is my evidence. He did not know the details of his journey. If I fly from NY to Paris I know I fly over the Atlantic Ocean R.A.F.. Bean doesn't know if he did or did not goe through the belt he had to pass through to go to the moon. That is my evidence.

If we're to use your analogy, cislunar space would be the Atlantic Ocean. I hope we can agree that Alan Bean knew he traveled across the 'ocean' of cislunar space. The portion of the VAB he transited would be a comparatively small 'landmark' encounted en route. On your analogous trip to Paris, should we expect you to know if you directly overflew the Archipelago of the Azores, what time that occurred, and how long it took? Or should we allow that since that information wasn't of primary concern to your business in Paris that you might not recall those details, even if you were informed of them 30-to-40 years ago?

MartianMarvin
2011-May-11, 06:39 PM
Garrison, your point is out of context, these are high profile public figures in on camera interviews with a hostile party. show them the door.

So what? Sibrel would have used the occasion to say that "he was getting too close to the truth." And if you think getting rid of Sibrel was that easy, you are quite mistaken.

Tog
2011-May-11, 06:40 PM
I use the "f word" a lot. it's actually a part of my daily vocabulary. So are many of the other words 6that would get me in trouble on this site. I'm not angry when I used them. Often I'm in a surprisingly good mood. One might go so far as to say jovial. On a good day, I can make a trucker blush. The "f-word" most certainly does not equal a lost temper in everyone.

When I do get mad, I use bigger words and longer sentences. My grammar improves, my speech quickens. Basically, the exact opposite of what you would expect. Also, there is no profanity when I'm actually angry. It's just the way I'm wired. Not everyone is the same.

Do I think Alan Bean was mad? Oh yes. I also think he had every right to be. He was one of 12 people in the history of mankind to do something. Millions of people saw it happen in their homes. People from all over the world participated directly. Our greatest enemy at the time never questioned it. Then, some 30 years later, some guy sets up an "interview" under false pretenses and catches an old man unprepared for the barrage of lies fired at him. Oh yeah. He was mad. It still doesn't change the fact that walked on the moon.

You say that anyone with the nerve to go the moon would not lose their cool at an interview.
Direct Question: Do you think that training every day for months on end would have taken some of the edge off the trip?
Direct Question: If he had been given one day to prepare for that interview, and the types of tactics used by Sibrel it might have made a difference? An hour? A minute?

Rhetorical question: If you see a bug on the wall across the room, do you freak out about it and lose your cool? How about if that same bug runs across your face while you're watching TV.

Time to prepare makes a huge difference.

Tensor
2011-May-11, 06:42 PM
I disagree Brett though I respect your experience. these are not garden variety fighter pilots, they are moon walkers. One is not the same as the other.

I also worked with fighter pilots during 16 years in the Air Force. 12 of which was on the flight line and four was with pilots in other capacities. The very best fighter pilots are exactly like the moon walkers in demeanor. As a matter of fact, two of the fighter pilots I met entered the Shuttle program. How many fighter pilots have you worked with on a day to day basis, Mary?

R.A.F.
2011-May-11, 06:50 PM
Do I think Alan Bean was mad? Oh yes. I also think he had every right to be. He was one of 12 people in the history of mankind to do something. Millions of people saw it happen in their homes. People from all over the world participated directly. Our greatest enemy at the time never questioned it. Then, some 30 years later, some guy sets up an "interview" under false pretenses and catches an old man unprepared for the barrage of lies fired at him. Oh yeah. He was mad. It still doesn't change the fact that walked on the moon.

Exactly...very well thought out post...thanks Tog.

Garrison
2011-May-11, 06:52 PM
Garrison, your point is out of context, these are high profile public figures in on camera interviews with a hostile party. show them the door.

But you are suggesting that we distrust the astronauts because they lost their temper whilst on the other hand you are choosing to believe Sibrel and trust the video material he has distributed even though as I've pointed out he is equally capable of bad behaviour, and with far less provocation than Aldrin or Bean was given. Also Aldrin was I believe 70 years old when the incident with Sibrel happened. Perhaps his patience and tolerance for stupidity are not what they might have been when he set foot on the moon.

Tensor
2011-May-11, 06:52 PM
You really didn't answer Gillianren's question. Can you state the exact series of events prior to Aldrin punching Sibrel?

MaryB
2011-May-11, 06:57 PM
Laurel, I do not know about the Skylab flight, have not investigated that. No opinion there. The other flights Gemini and so forth, no opinion, I have yet to investigate. i stand firm on my Apollo statement. I started another thread with regard to the inconsistency of the astronaut stories, Armstrong does not see stars from the moon, Cernan does, even in the light even with his visor down, both cannot be true, ergo it is fake.

R.A.F. the astronauts stories are contradictory, mutually exclusive, therefore untrue. That is my evidence, and good evidence it is.

Red shifter , i answered LAUREL, the suits are fake in that they have no genuine application. Clear? Letting an interview go too far is relevant if you wind up losing your temper and in so doing are exposed as a liar. Yes it applies to other professionals, but mostly to public figures and the more "important" the figure, the more it applies. astronauts are very important.

The photos and videos of Bean are all real videos. It is just that those purported to be taken from the lunar surface were actually filmed elsewhere.

Martian, you are wrong. The interviews were in the astronauts' homes. I would have asked him to leave period. this is my home not Sibrel's. your point makes no sense.

Tog, sibrel uses the F word when he loses his temper in the video. It is clear he is unhappy. Look for yourself.

No I do not work with fighter pilots day to day and as i respectfully pointed out to the moderator Brett, fighter pilot does not equate with moon walker. That is like comparing a garden variety computer scientist with Alan Turing and saying they are the same because they both work with computers.

Next direct question please.

LaurelHS
2011-May-11, 06:59 PM
If Alan Bean really commanded Skylab, he's a real astronaut and you should withdraw your "phony claim" and stop insulting him.

Kinetic
2011-May-11, 06:59 PM
They can't possibly be real astronauts! They got angry because somebody harassed them and called them liars to their face!

Some baffling logic at work here...

I was going to say it sounds like straws being clutched but in actual fact all I can hear is the waffing of thin air.

PetersCreek
2011-May-11, 06:59 PM
I disagree Brett though I respect your experience. these are not garden variety fighter pilots, they are moon walkers. One is not the same as the other.

I expected that you would disagree. But what are the qualitative differences between the two groups that would reasonably lead to your expection? Then there is also the fact that while early astronauts were mostly fighter/test pilots, this became less prevalent in the later years of Apollo.

Now, you put much stock into the notion that these people were supposed to be unflappable 'steely-eyed missile men', able to respond to any threat without losing their tempers. To an extent (and only an extent) that's true. They had checklists for virtually everything and trained extensively with them. With such training comes increased confidence that one can handle emergencies while keeping emotions in check...but this applies mostly to those areas in which one is trained. I am unaware of checklist or extensive specialized training in how to handle interviews. If you assert that their training regimen addressed that circumstance, you should provide evidence of such. Let's also keep in mind that training was conducted rougly 40 years ago.

LaurelHS
2011-May-11, 07:01 PM
The photos and videos of Bean are all real videos. It is just that those purported to be taken from the lunar surface were actually filmed elsewhere.

Okay, where? It's your theory, give us the details.

R.A.F.
2011-May-11, 07:02 PM
R.A.F. the astronauts stories are contradictory, mutually exclusive, therefore untrue. That is my evidence, and good evidence it is.

Sorry, no...you're presenting opinion "as if" it were fact...still awaiting actual evidence and NOT opinion.

Tensor
2011-May-11, 07:03 PM
No I do not work with fighter pilots day to day and as i respectfully pointed out to the moderator Brett, fighter pilot does not equate with moon walker. That is like comparing a garden variety computer scientist with Allan Turing and saying they are the same because they both work with computers.

Next direct question please.

If you don't work with them day to day, then how do you know that the top fighter pilots are not equal to moon walkers? Opinion? What facts do you have to support your contention?

MaryB
2011-May-11, 07:03 PM
My claim is qualified LAUREL, I indicated he was a fake Apollo astronaut, check my wording please.

LaurelHS
2011-May-11, 07:04 PM
My claim is qualified LAUREL, I indicated he was a fake Apollo astronaut, check my wording please.
You indicated it, but you didn't offer any sort of evidence except personal interpretations of behaviour. So where was the lunar surface video filmed? You say it was somewhere other than the Moon. Where?

MaryB
2011-May-11, 07:05 PM
The difference Brett is fighter pilots don't do into space, they don't walk on the moon and they are not public figures excet guys like Blue Angels and even thebn , not nearly in the sense that astronauts are. HUGE difference with respect to public figure aspect Brett.

MaryB
2011-May-11, 07:07 PM
Laurel, Bean aid he didn't know if they went through the belt, ergo he did not go to the moon, ergo the moon videos are fake. the evidence is Bean's ignorance

LaurelHS
2011-May-11, 07:09 PM
An single statement from an edited interview by a conspiracy theorist with an agenda? Sorry, that's not sufficient evidence that Bean didn't go to the Moon. You're very passionate about your hoax beliefs, surely you have more evidence to support them?

Garrison
2011-May-11, 07:09 PM
My claim is qualified LAUREL, I indicated he was a fake Apollo astronaut, check my wording please.

So his bad temper would exclude him from walking on the moon on a 7 day mission but not from commanding Skylab during a 59 day mission? One would imagine that if his temperament was good enough for the latter it would have sufficed for the former. If not please explain why MaryB?

redshifter
2011-May-11, 07:10 PM
Red shifter , i answered LAUREL, the suits are fake in that they have no genuine application. Clear? Letting an interview go too far is relevant if you wind up losing your temper and in so doing are exposed as a liar. Yes it applies to other professionals, but mostly to public figures and the more "important" the figure, the more it applies. astronauts are very important.



Um, no; not clear at all. You STILL have not provided evidence that the suits are in fact 'fake'. Just stating they're fake and 'have no genuine application' does not make it true. Stating that the moon landings were fake and therefore the suits are fake as well simply means you need proof of both.

Also, how does 'letting an interview go too far', resulting in a loss of temper, make one a 'liar'? If I tell you 2+2=4, and show you the evidence of this; which causes you to intimidate me or go obtuse, insist I'm wrong and cause me to lose my temper, how does that make me a 'liar'?

Jason Thompson
2011-May-11, 07:10 PM
Mary, how much of the Apollo record have you actually investigated at this point? Do you honestly think that one video of interviews conducted decades after the event is enough research to draw conclusions about a project that lasted more than a decade, which involved hundreds of thousands of people, and which produced tens of thousands of photos, hour upon hour of film and TV footage, and page after page of documentation? I am certain so far that I have seen more of that material than you even know exists.

Sibrel is a fraud and a liar. He claims he is the only source of some video footage that was actually broadcast live to millions, and which anyone can obtain frmo NASA the same way he did. He claims many things and cannot back them up with evidence (I know from personal contact with him which I will happily elaborate on if asked to). He asks astronauts to swear on the bible that they went to the Moon. The fact that some of them actually do matters not a jot to his predetermined agenda of making them out to be liars. He got a punch in the face because he lured Aldrin to an interview under false pretenses, attempted to prevent him leaving the building, and was generally being threatening to him. There is no way in hell he can claim to be producing credible evidence.

Garrison
2011-May-11, 07:13 PM
Oh and double checking this is what you wrote in post #1 MaryB:


Alan Bean seems dim witted. I do not believe he was a real astronaut.

No qualifier there so are you going to at least formally withdraw that claim now you've conceded he was on Skylab?

MartianMarvin
2011-May-11, 07:15 PM
Martian, you are wrong. The interviews were in the astronauts' homes. I would have asked him to leave period. this is my home not Sibrel's. your point makes no sense.

This strikes me as being very naive. Let's take the Aldrin incident: The Aldrins make it clear that they no longer wished to continue having any conversation with Sibrel, but Sibrel has none of it. He goes so far to block Aldrin's path when Buzz attempts to cross the street to get away from Sibrel. Sibrel has every opportunity to take the hint and leave Buzz alone, but instead he continues to harass Aldrin until he finally gets punched in the face. Another example: he's been caught attempting to break into Neil Armstrong's property. Now, based on that information, do you really believe that Sibrel is the kind of guy to just up and leave when he's asked to leave the premises?

And what about the other point? Sibrel has used every occasion when an astronaut declines to talk with him to say that he must be "too close to the truth." What makes you believe that he wouldn't say the same thing if asked to leave an astronauts house?

Tog
2011-May-11, 07:16 PM
Tog, sibrel uses the F word when he loses his temper in the video. It is clear he is unhappy. Look for yourself.
I don't need to look. I don't doubt that he did. That wasn't one of my questions, though.


Next direct question please.
Nah, lets finish up the others first.

You say that anyone with the nerve to go the moon would not lose their cool at an interview.
Direct Question: Do you think that training every day for months on end would have taken some of the edge off the trip?
Direct Question: If he had been given one day to prepare for that interview, and the types of tactics used by Sibrel it might have made a difference? An hour? A minute?

Geo Kaplan
2011-May-11, 07:27 PM
MaryB,

These are direct questions for you, which you are obligated to answer:

1) What, besides your opinion, allows you to declare with such certainty that a "real astronaut" would never lose his temper, regardless of provocation?

2) What other saintly virtues would a "real astronaut" have to possess?

3) Are you aware that test pilots often use language that would make network censors work overtime?

4) Are you aware that most of the astronauts were chosen from the ranks of test pilots?

5) Can you offer any documented evidence that NASA used as a selection criterion a clean mouth, metaphorically speaking?

6) What were the astronaut selection criteria actually used by NASA?

7) Aside from your opinions about an astronaut's proper deportment, what evidence do you have that the moon landings were faked? Again, please note the word evidence.

Thank you in advance for fact-based replies uncolored by opinion.

PetersCreek
2011-May-11, 07:48 PM
The difference Brett is fighter pilots don't do into space, they don't walk on the moon and they are not public figures excet guys like Blue Angels and even thebn , not nearly in the sense that astronauts are. HUGE difference with respect to public figure aspect Brett.

Fighter pilots operate complex, high-performance aircraft in a flight regime that you've never close to experiencing, I imagine, with the added complication of doing so while not getting shot down by another pilot flying a complex, high-performance aircraft. They are additionally expected to exemplify the image of military professionalism. Still they are human beings prone to losing their tempers when the strain gage bottoms out. Unless you can articulate a compelling argument to the contrary, I see no reason to believe that astronauts who haven't been active astronauts in 35-40 years are the same or similar in that respect.

MaryB
2011-May-11, 07:55 PM
Garrison, the moderator moved that comment you quoted from a different thread. The first post for this thread has Apollo in the title look for that. the post you are referring to originally belonged to a different thread.

R.A.F.
2011-May-11, 07:57 PM
Garrison, the moderator moved that comment you quoted from a different thread. The first post for this thread has Apollo in the title look for that. the post you are referring to originally belonged to a different thread.

Relevancy???? The following is a simple direct question...Do you think that Alan Bean commanded the second skylab crew...A yes or no will be sufficient.

Gillianren
2011-May-11, 08:10 PM
Gillianren, Sibrel is a hostile ambush artist. That is his technique of choice. The astronauts do require some of the same skills, responding calmly to a threat. Sibrel is a threat, show him the door. Don't lose your cool. Same on the moon, trouble landing? Don't lose your cool. Pathetic!!!!!!!

What skill set is required to be an astronaut? What skill set is required to be skilled at interviewing? How do the events leading up to Aldrin's punching Sibrel contradict your statement about how easy it is to "show him the door"? What study have you done about the Moon landings other than watch the carefully edited interviews by a known liar?

Garrison
2011-May-11, 08:16 PM
Garrison, the moderator moved that comment you quoted from a different thread. The first post for this thread has Apollo in the title look for that. the post you are referring to originally belonged to a different thread.

Which makes it no less your statement and claim, do you now accept that claim was simply wrong?

Bobbar
2011-May-11, 08:24 PM
I disagree Brett though I respect your experience. these are not garden variety fighter pilots, they are moon walkers. One is not the same as the other.

What were they doing before they became moon walkers?


Extravoice, the interview never should have gotten that far, the swearing part. One identifies Sibrel as hostile, show him the door. long before the swearing.

Buzz asked Bart to get away from him many times, but Bart kept on cornering him and shoving a book in his face, while calling him a liar and a coward, AFTER tricking him into a phony interview. Showing him the door is clearly not an effective means of getting him out of your face.


I watched Bart Sibrel's movie Astronauts gone Wild with my 2 best friends last night. My friend Pam thinks the astronauts are totally fake too because they lose their tempers. They also seem very average in intelligence. They cannot possibly have done what they said they did. What an embarrassment and I never knew.

Amazing. All it takes is one video to sway you into thinking that the most well documented event in modern history is all fake?

You shouldn't be so quick to to call others 'dim witted' or 'very average in intelligence'. Clearly, there are MANY things that you do not understand about the subject at hand. You said you weren't aware of Gemini or Skylab. You are speaking from ignorance, how dare you pass judgment on something you haven't taken time to understand.


My other friend Patrick is a scientist and smarter than Pam and me in a conventional sense. He believes this nonsense. Do You?

By nonsense do you mean Bart Sibrels' video, or the Moon landings? Either way, it sounds like he's not on your side.

dmr81
2011-May-11, 08:37 PM
Bean aid he didn't know if they went through the belt, ergo he did not go to the moon

Did any of the tasks he had to perform during the mission depend on him knowing anything about the Van Allen belt?

If you answer yes, state which tasks and provide evidence that they depended on knowledge of the VAB.

If you answer no or don't know, explicitly concede that his alleged remarks about the VAB are not grounds for doubting that he went to the moon.

Paul Beardsley
2011-May-11, 08:39 PM
Amazing. All it takes is one video to sway you into thinking that the most well documented event in modern history is all fake?

This really cuts to the heart of it, MaryB. And so does the rest of Bobbar's post, frankly.

If it didn't happen, how did they get all that footage? How did they get all that rock? How did they ensure the silence of their Russian rivals to this day?

If your answers to the above questions are, respectively, "They faked it in a film studio in the Nevada desert, the rock is terrestrial rock, and the Russians were in on it," then you need to keep in mind that there are a lot of people on BAUT with the relevant education.

Also, if the Van Allen Belts were the threats that Sibrel and his ilk would have you believe ("You'll fry if you go through them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"), then yes, Bean should have known about them. But given that they were not a threat, knowing about them was not terribly important.

Noclevername
2011-May-11, 09:04 PM
\I started another thread with regard to the inconsistency of the astronaut stories, Armstrong does not see stars from the moon, Cernan does, even in the light even with his visor down, both cannot be true, ergo it is fake.

R.A.F. the astronauts stories are contradictory, mutually exclusive, therefore untrue. That is my evidence, and good evidence it is.

It does not meet the definition of evidence, only opinion. Everyone's eyes are different, and they were on the Moon at different times with the Sun at different angles.

Van Rijn
2011-May-11, 09:07 PM
Also, if the Van Allen Belts were the threats that Sibrel and his ilk would have you believe ("You'll fry if you go through them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"), then yes, Bean should have known about them.


Yes, when looking for the Bean quote, in one video (perhaps Sibrel's original) there was an announcer talking about the "DEADLY Van Allen radiation belts starting a thousand miles from Earth." Well, the ISS regularly goes through the DEADLY Van Allen belt, and it's not a thousand miles up (google "South Atlantic Anomaly"). I gave up on the video after that.

moonfunk
2011-May-11, 09:12 PM
Yes, when looking for the Bean quote, in one video (perhaps Sibrel's original) there was an announcer talking about the "DEADLY Van Allen radiation belts starting a thousand miles from Earth." Well, the ISS regularly goes through the DEADLY Van Allen belt, and it's not a thousand miles up (google "South Atlantic Anomaly"). I gave up on the video after that.

The ISS, or as I like to call it, The Upper Atmospheric Station, does have a special shielded room for trips thru the SAA or other radiation events.

ravens_cry
2011-May-11, 09:14 PM
There is direct evidence from a foreign nation state that was antagonistic and downright hostile to the interests of the United States of America and whose competition there with was the driving force behind the "Space Race."
I mean no less the the former Soviet Union.
I quote now from a report (http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/864491/files/p484.pdf) by Soviet scientists on the radiation conditions of cislunar space by measured by experiments aboard the Zond 5 and 7 probes. For those who do not know, these probes were unmanned test versions of the Soviet equivalent of the Apollo 8 CSM.
"Should no solar flares occur, seven-day flights along the trajectories of the Zond-5 and 7 are safe from the radiation point of view."
The scientists of the USSR confirm what we already know: the Van Allen Belts were not a concern to astronauts or cosmonauts for the duration they would be exposed to them on moon flights.

Paul Beardsley
2011-May-11, 09:22 PM
The ISS, or as I like to call it, The Upper Atmospheric Station

Why do you like to call it that? Because it makes it somehow less of a space station? Because by power of suggestion this will somehow cause its orbit to decay faster? Because it reminds people that there is no sudden cutoff between atmosphere and pure vacuum? None of the above?

I am genuinely curious.

ETA Sigh. Just learnt MaryB is a sockpuppet of DoctorTea. Funny, I had a strong feeling that DoctorTea's "just askin'" rhetoric was a familiar HB approach.

ETA2 Oops, got moonfunk and MaryB/DoctorTea mixed up. Genuine mistake - forgot who I was addressing. Maybe moonfunk will answer my questions...

Jason Thompson
2011-May-11, 09:23 PM
The ISS, or as I like to call it, The Upper Atmospheric Station, does have a special shielded room for trips thru the SAA or other radiation events.

And what does that shielding consist of, how does it differ from what you might need for a single trip to and from the Moon (considering radiation damage is cumulative), and is it actually for the SAA (which the crew would pass through every single day sevral times, making it somewhat impractical) or for solar storms?

moonfunk
2011-May-11, 09:27 PM
There is direct evidence from a foreign nation state that was antagonistic and downright hostile to the interests of the United States of America and whose competition there with was the driving force behind the "Space Race."
I mean no less the the former Soviet Union.
I quote now from a report (http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/864491/files/p484.pdf) by Soviet scientists on the radiation conditions of cislunar space by measured by experiments aboard the Zond 5 and 7 probes. For those who do not know, these probes were unmanned test versions of the Soviet equivalent of the Apollo 8 CSM.
"Should no solar flares occur, seven-day flights along the trajectories of the Zond-5 and 7 are safe from the radiation point of view."
The scientists of the USSR confirm what we already know: the Van Allen Belts were not a concern to astronauts or cosmonauts for the duration they would be exposed to them on moon flights.

Thats odd, Ravens, I have never seen that report. I'll be sure to read it. However the NCBI does report damage to the DNA caused by "Space Radiation":

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12793746

moonfunk
2011-May-11, 09:29 PM
Odd you should ask, Jason it was just in the news. They are using plastics.

They dont directly pass thru the center or highest radiation points of the SAA everyday.

Garrison
2011-May-11, 09:38 PM
ETA Sigh. Just learnt MaryB is a sockpuppet of DoctorTea. Funny, I had a strong feeling that DoctorTea's "just askin'" rhetoric was a familiar HB approach.


Yeah I was pretty much thinking MaryB was an alter ego for DoctorTea, which I guess renders this thread moot?

amazeofdeath
2011-May-11, 09:39 PM
Thats odd, Ravens, I have never seen that report. I'll be sure to read it. However the NCBI does report damage to the DNA caused by "Space Radiation":

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12793746Radiation from for example cosmic rays is an issue in any prolonged stay in space. We are generally protected from cosmic rays by the atmosphere, but for example airplane pilots and cabin crew members receive increased annual radiation doses, comparable or exceeding those that work at nuclear plants receive. The abstract's result you quote is thus quite obvious, and not directly related to Van Allen belts.


Odd you should ask, Jason it was just in the news. They are using plastics.And how do they differ from radiation shielding on Apollo craft, especially in operating principle?


They dont directly pass thru the center or highest radiation points of the SAA everyday.So? Do you know that radiation doses are cumulative? Quick pass through a "hotter" area can be a lot less harmful than prolonged stay in a lower-flux region.

R.A.F.
2011-May-11, 09:41 PM
Darn...I hate that. Just one time, I'd like to see straight answers from these posters before they get banned.

moonfunk
2011-May-11, 09:43 PM
Amazeofdeath, this isnt my thread and we shouldnt hijack it. I have given you enough information so you can do a little self learning.

PetersCreek
2011-May-11, 09:44 PM
Lacking a proponent, this thread is closed. If anyone wishes to pick up the torch, report this post.