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KS42
2011-May-19, 10:48 PM
The Face. I am posting here in this section, where it rightfully belongs. Space Exploration.
http://www.marsesa.9f.com/slide_shows/Face/CYD401A1.jpg

http://www.marsesa.9f.com/slide_shows/Face/CYD201A.jpg

I have done this in the past but it always gets moved to the “Conspiracy Theories” section.

I am posting this as news even if old news. The source image has been online since 2006. After 5 years, no one seems to “get it”. People are still expecting for that CNN news flash or a NASA announcement.

Speaking of NASA, a couple of false images taken by this US government agency.
http://www.marsesa.9f.com/slide_shows/Face/PSP_003234_2210_RGB_KJ204.jpg

http://www.marsesa.9f.com/slide_shows/Face/Face1.jpg

A ESA/Mars Express image. No color correction.
http://www.marsesa.9f.com/slide_shows/Face/~A~A~58b.jpg See note below

The original source image. Only the "Pretty jpeg" is the true version. The "Ugly tiff" is false. (There should be no difference between the two anyway).
http://esamultimedia.esa.int/images/marsexpress/306-230906-3253-6-co2-Cydonia_H.jpg

http://www.esa.int/esa-mmg/mmg.pl?b=b&keyword=Cydonia&single=y&start=10&size=b

A thumbnail page.
http://www.marsesa.9f.com/slide_show.html?show=Face&picture=thumbnail.jpg&autopilot_running=


-----
A member reports their virus checker popping a warning on one of the links above, so it's been mangled. Remove the three "~" to un-mangle it... at your own risk.

Cobra1597
2011-May-19, 11:12 PM
What is it that people are supposed to "get"? What is your position on these photos?

Swift
2011-May-20, 01:45 AM
What is it that people are supposed to "get"? What is your position on these photos?
I will make that official. What are people supposed to get? What do you believe all of this shows? You will answer those two questions and your answers will determine where this thread is located, or this thread will be closed - your choice.

apolloman
2011-May-20, 11:03 AM
I have done this in the past but it always gets moved to the “Conspiracy Theories” section.

I can't imagine why...

profloater
2011-May-20, 12:25 PM
Have you never seen clouds resemble objects and faces? We are wired to see faces in patterns. If you see a friend coming towards you from a long way off, tests have shown you will recognise the face long before you possibly could actually see the image. Our brains construct the face. Relax.

KS42
2011-May-21, 01:27 AM
“What are people supposed to get?”

Intelligence. Intelligent activity that is Solar System wide, including Earth.

Another area of Cydonia. Reflected view. Reflected for Human understanding.
http://marsesa.9f.com/slide_shows/SEMVHE8LURE/CD51A.jpg

Evidence right before your eyes. Can you see it? Can you realize it?

As it was predicted years ago, when and if evidence does reveal it itself, it will be in a form not recognized or accepted. This is because 99 percent of people have a preconceived notion on how this evidence is to be shown or presented.

I also accept that people are afraid of what they see. Some do not know what to think.

Evidence all thanks to NASA and the ESA.
http://www.marsesa.9f.com/slide_show.html

Garrison
2011-May-21, 01:39 AM
I also accept that people are afraid of what they see. Some do not know what to think.


Fear is not the emotion I'm experiencing, and I'm pretty sure I know what I think of this...

Noclevername
2011-May-21, 01:48 AM
This is because 99 percent of people have a preconceived notion on how this evidence is to be shown or presented.


Nope, that's not it. Try again...

Noclevername
2011-May-21, 02:00 AM
So just for kicks, can you spell out for us exactly what evidence you think these pix contain? (Keeping in mind that BAUT uses the scientific definition of the word evidence.)

ETA: And who "predicted years ago" that it would be found?

Jamotron
2011-May-21, 02:01 AM
The "face" on Mars in another light. (http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/extended_may2001/face/face_E03-00824_proc_50perc.gif)

pzkpfw
2011-May-21, 02:20 AM
Thread moved, clearly not just about exploration, but containing claims. Not closed quite yet, but in all likelihood will be soon as it seems another pareidolia thread.

shriram
2011-May-21, 02:59 AM
...The original source image. Only the "Pretty jpeg" is the true version. The "Ugly tiff" is false. (There should be no difference between the two anyway).


Why?

shriram
2011-May-21, 03:31 AM
As it was predicted years ago, when and if evidence does reveal it itself, it will be in a form not recognized or accepted. This is because 99 percent of people have a preconceived notion on how this evidence is to be shown or presented.



I am not a scientist. In all thing scientific, you can consider me a layman. But one thing is pretty sure. I would like the evidence to be in the form recognized, unambigous. I am at the best a point-and-shoot kind of a photographer. Even then, when I photograph a flower, or my son, the images looks like a flower and my son respectively. I don't need any image processing to convince the people about that. And even if I change the image format from RAW (I prefer camera native raw format over JPEG) to JPEG to TIFF or whatever other format, the images would still be recognized for exactly what they are. I feel this is what 99 percent people want. Evidence which is not open to interpretation.

chrlzs
2011-May-21, 05:27 AM
Please consider these direct questions upon your return, ks42.


..Speaking of NASA, a couple of false images taken..
1. Precisely what makes them 'false' images?


..Only the "Pretty jpeg" is the true version. The "Ugly tiff" is false. (There should be no difference between the two anyway).
2. What makes the jpeg 'true' and the tiff false? (The fact it has artefacts you 'like'?)

May I strongly suggest that before answering those questions, you take the time to learn and understand the basics of imaging, right down to things like resolution, pixelation, jpeg compression, posterisation, through to quantisation, block boundaries and then colorimetry... and also perhaps learn how to get access to the original source image, rather than flounder about with various copies and processed/compressed versions. (Oh, and look up pareidolia, of course!)

3. After doing that, do you think an image, taken in whatever way you specify, is ever 'true', in terms of resolved detail, colour 'accuracy', dynamic range? Please elaborate. (I will if you don't..)


As a hint on why I ask these questions, may I suggest you compare the two images directly, at, say 400% magnification (UNinterpolated so you are not looking at enlargement algorithm artefacts) to examine the pixelation effects, and you will see the telltale signs of ...

I'll leave it to you to discover what - if you learn about the topics I gave above, you will find most of the answers.

As a further hint, it is *not* aliens or their abodes, nor is it Mars-based intelligent activity.

Noclevername
2011-May-21, 05:36 AM
Speaking of NASA, a couple of false images taken by this US government agency.
http://www.marsesa.9f.com/slide_shows/Face/PSP_003234_2210_RGB_KJ204.jpg

http://www.marsesa.9f.com/slide_shows/Face/Face1.jpg


Evidence that they are "false"?

ravens_cry
2011-May-21, 05:45 AM
Duh, they disagree with KS42's preconceived conclusions. They think there is a face, therefore there is a face, therefore any evidence it isn't a face is false. Duh.

Paul Beardsley
2011-May-21, 06:07 AM
Reflected view. Reflected for Human understanding.

Reflected to remove the bit that makes it not look like a face.


Evidence right before your eyes. Can you see it? Can you realize it?

I see something that looks like a face. The reason why I (and most other people) see a face is well understood. It has nothing to do with aliens.


As it was predicted years ago, when and if evidence does reveal it itself, it will be in a form not recognized or accepted.

Who made this prediction and in what year? What did he, she or they base this prediction on? Do they accept that some things do not count as evidence? Do they, in short, have any concept of critical thinking?


This is because 99 percent of people have a preconceived notion on how this evidence is to be shown or presented.

I also accept that people are afraid of what they see. Some do not know what to think.

If there was compelling evidence of an alien civilisation in another part of our solar system, I expect I would feel fear. I definitely would if aliens landed in my town.

However, I do not reject evidence on the basis of fear - as I think you are trying to imply.

And I definitely know what to think. The Face picture has been available since about 1978, two years after the Vikings arrived at Mars. I was awed when I first saw it (aged 15), and I enjoyed speculating about a race of ancient Martians who had built it. But even then I understood what pareidolia was, even if I didn't yet know the word. I was amused to see it make an appearance in the Microprose X-COM game UFO:Enemy Unknown in the early 1990s, and I was a bit sad when better pictures revealed it to be nothing like a face.

I think you are having trouble with the better resolution pictures, because they do not confirm to your preferred interpretation.

Selenite
2011-May-21, 06:14 AM
Intelligence. Intelligent activity that is Solar System wide,



So we should be seeing faces and artifacts and intelligent activity on Mercury, Ceres, Io, etc?


including Earth.

Gotta wonder sometimes.

ravens_cry
2011-May-21, 06:24 AM
Yeah, I wished it was something more too. I would love to know there is some Other out there. I can't even begin to imagine the possible synergy of two peoples who can truly see each other from the outside. But if there is an Other, the "face" on Mars is no more proof of that than the smiley face craters. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galle_%28Martian_crater%29)

Van Rijn
2011-May-21, 07:46 AM
Another area of Cydonia. Reflected view. Reflected for Human understanding.
http://marsesa.9f.com/slide_shows/SEMVHE8LURE/CD51A.jpg


Now this is a false image, a highly manipulated image. You're reflecting half the image and you expect anyone would be surprised there would be symmetry? :doh:



I also accept that people are afraid of what they see. Some do not know what to think.


Oh, boy, the old "afraid" line. Do you realize how often that is used in religious and pseudoscience claims? When doctors argue the lack of evidence on "alternative medicine" claims they're accused of being afraid of it. Debunkers are supposed to be afraid of all sorts of stuff from ghosts to perpetual motion machines. And I'm sure you've heard the line "You just say you don't believe in [fill in here] because you're afraid of the consequences."

In other words, this is a line said by believers that only makes sense to other believers. It just sounds ridiculous to everyone else.

Van Rijn
2011-May-21, 07:58 AM
Reflected to remove the bit that makes it not look like a face.

Worse, we look for symmetry. Unremarkable features will seem much more impressive when reflected.

Usher
2011-May-21, 07:58 AM
This is not at all surprising. Your brain and mine interpret images and pull patterns out of randomness all the time; we are wired to do that (much better than any human-created software). When it gets strange and yes, somewhat frightening, is when some of us refuse to step back, to allow critical thinking to occur. That is the abyss.

pie33
2011-May-21, 11:18 AM
First officers hyperlink

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://raphaelonline.com/slide44.jpg&imgrefurl=http://raphaelonline.com/Marsface.htm&usg=__qPbvLIBCCxZrxeOgyZ5O4UcIqtQ=&h=540&w=720&sz=55&hl=en&start=12&zoom=1&tbnid=dgUgoo9XjcdVNM:&tbnh=104&tbnw=138&ei=IJ7XTeePLo74sAPnzaCxBw&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dfaces%2Bon%2Bmars%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den% 26sa%3DN%26biw%3D983%26bih%3D346%26tbm%3Disch&um=1&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=266&sqi=2&page=2&ndsp=12&ved=1t:429,r:11,s:12&tx=47&ty=38

pie33
2011-May-21, 11:21 AM
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_9gn6KLa5xtY/St8VrqG5iSI/AAAAAAAAFHY/KKHCfAXweZs/s400/MarsFaceYoungPerson.jpg&imgrefurl=http://theorstrahyun.blogspot.com/2009/10/i-spy-eye-on-mars-by-darryl-mason-in.html&usg=__F-x3_0gWGC6NZQlDv8276xt89kU=&h=198&w=175&sz=10&hl=en&start=72&zoom=1&tbnid=DPS0gy5TnOwLyM:&tbnh=108&tbnw=102&ei=IJ7XTeePLo74sAPnzaCxBw&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dfaces%2Bon%2Bmars%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den% 26sa%3DN%26biw%3D983%26bih%3D346%26tbm%3Disch&um=1&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=296&sqi=2&page=7&ndsp=12&ved=1t:429,r:4,s:72&tx=52&ty=40

Garrison
2011-May-21, 12:16 PM
I know KS42 is out for a few days but if they really doesn't get why this belongs in CT:

You and others say this is a carved face; NASA and everyone else involved in Mars exploration says its a trick of the light. That clearly implies a conspiracy on the part of NASA et al, and to what end? The idea of an ancient civilization on Mars is hardly new, indeed its been far more prominent in the past without causing mass hysteria(Orson Welles and War of the Worlds notwithstanding) and such a discovery would most likely prompt budget rises at NASA and most other space agencies to pursue Mars exploration. This is why you can't simply post a few pics in space exploration and 'say my interpretation is the true one' without expecting to be asked to explain why everyone else is telling lies that go against their own best interest and the appropriate place for those questions is right here in CT.

Swift
2011-May-21, 01:55 PM
So KS42 doesn't have a huge backlog of questions to answer, I'm closing this thread.

KS42 - When you return, if you wish to have a discussion about this topic, by our rules, please report this post and the thread will be reopened.

pie33 - I don't know if you are joking, asking a question, or presenting your own ideas. It would be helpful in the future if you made it clear. And if you are presenting your own ideas, start your own thread.