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AllQuestionsNoAnswers
2011-Jun-28, 02:43 PM
I'm new to this forum and came here to try to get answers to questions mostly related to science programs that I occassionally watch on tv. In the process of scanning the posts looking for information, I discovered that it is not unheard of for forum members to speculate on the possibility of alien visitations to planet earth -- yeah, talkin' UFOs now. After reading through many of those threads, I determined that no way was I ever going to get caught up in a is-it-a-real-ufo-or-not discussion on this forum, in fact, I don't really have any interest to discuss the subject. But today on Yahoo I found a link to this story and YouTube video:

http://beta.news.yahoo.com/ufos-seen-london-skies-viral-video-spotlight-104311550.html

If you scroll down to the bottom of that link, you can click on the link to the YouTube video.

I try to be skeptical, I figure that a lot of jokers out there in the world are creating fake videos/pictures just to get attention and/or play practical jokes. But when I see videos like this, what is a skeptic supposed to think?

Here's the direct link to the YouTube video, in case you want to skip the Yahoo page:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AouX-nWvv4

What is it???

Solfe
2011-Jun-28, 03:26 PM
I would say this is a joke.

There is a large red and white sign taped to a sign post in the first 30 seconds. That disappears and is replaced with a much smaller sign, but we can only see the shadow of the sign. Also the sun appears to move to the right too much for the length of the video. You can tell that the camera man was standing in front of a certain store for the length of the video, so we are not seeing the cameraman change positions.

AllQuestionsNoAnswers
2011-Jun-28, 03:43 PM
The large red and white sign is still there at 1:42 - 1:44 (or so) in the video, it hasn't moved, you can see parts of it behind the gal in yellow sweater. I don't see the sun move. What about the actual UFO-like objects darting around in the sky that everybody on the street is looking up at and taking photos of? Are they paid actors, or just in on the joke? In my opinion, it takes a real dedication to a foregone conclusion to totally discount what is shown in this video. Just my opinion...

shriram
2011-Jun-28, 04:25 PM
I could see some small dots flying across the sky. Too small to determine what they are - could be birds, most probably.
Then some white disc appears from behind the clouds, does some frisbee-like maneuver and goes back again. Again too small to decide what it is. I could not see any UFO mothership and fleet.

Solfe
2011-Jun-28, 05:19 PM
I retract all of my observations, except I still believe that it is a joke and the camera does stay in one location in front of store.

My Internet connection is not playing nice with me and half the frames are dropping, randomly. I had thought that it was the video and not my pc.

Luckmeister
2011-Jun-28, 05:21 PM
I try to be skeptical, I figure that a lot of jokers out there in the world are creating fake videos/pictures just to get attention and/or play practical jokes. But when I see videos like this, what is a skeptic supposed to think?

A skeptic is supposed to think, "I don't know what it is from one quick YouTube look but that doesn't mean alien mothership is the best answer." It appears to be at least cloud height but even that could be faked. And if the video isn't being faked, that still doesn't exclude everything but alien visitation.

Van Rijn
2011-Jun-28, 05:55 PM
The wind is very strong. There are some clearly identifiable birds, and some of the other white spots I'd suspect as also being birds, but possibly something else being blown in the wind. There's a thing that looks like a pink balloon being kicked around in the wind. It is visible against blue sky but not against cloud. There might be more than one balloon involved.

AllQuestionsNoAnswers
2011-Jun-28, 07:26 PM
I'm not somebody who believes in alien visitation, but if you gave me a multiple choice question: What are those lights showing in this video (and a couple of others taken by different people also showing the same lights from different points in the area also posted on YouTube): a) birds, b) balloons, c) faked/fabricated video d) alien spacecraft, e) something else -- I guess I would have to use the same method of arriving at the correct answer as served me so well on multiple choice tests in my college days, and that is process of elimination. I don't see birds and I don't see balloons. Faked/fabricated video would be a possibility, but the other two videos of the same event from different perspectives lessen that possibility I think. Probably faked/fabricated video would be the preferred choice for somebody inclined to deny the possibility of alien visitation, for whatever reason. I would have to go with the "something else" answer. But if I had to choose between birds, balloons or alien spacecraft, I would be forced to choose alien spacecraft because I don't see birds or balloons. What about flares? What about Chinese Lanterns? What about some kind of meteor swarm? Anything else those lights could be? Other than alien spacecraft I mean -- and other than birds or balloons?

Gillianren
2011-Jun-28, 08:51 PM
What about them shows that they aren't birds or balloons?

R.A.F.
2011-Jun-28, 08:54 PM
I'm not somebody who believes in alien visitation...snip...if I had to choose between birds, balloons or alien spacecraft, I would be forced to choose alien spacecraft because I don't see birds or balloons.

Well, which is it??

R.A.F.
2011-Jun-28, 08:55 PM
...it takes a real dedication to a foregone conclusion to totally discount what is shown in this video. Just my opinion...

Enlighten us...what is this "foregone conclusion"??

eburacum45
2011-Jun-28, 08:57 PM
This is almost certainly a CGI fake, with several accomplices. We can expect many more like this, as CGI equipment and programs become cheaper and more ubiquitous.
see
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/ufo/8599547/UFOs-spotted-over-London.html

A separate video posted by the same user, alymc01, is believed to have been shot from inside the offices of a visual effects company called The Mill. The firm creates special effects for the film industry.

Van Rijn
2011-Jun-28, 09:20 PM
I'm not somebody who believes in alien visitation, but if you gave me a multiple choice question: What are those lights showing in this video


What lights? What I saw was shot in the daytime and I didn't notice any obvious lights.


(and a couple of others taken by different people also showing the same lights from different points in the area also posted on YouTube):


Links please. Are they showing EXACTLY the same objects in the sky or do they look similar?



a) birds, b) balloons, c) faked/fabricated video d) alien spacecraft, e) something else -- I guess I would have to use the same method of arriving at the correct answer as served me so well on multiple choice tests in my college days, and that is process of elimination. I don't see birds and I don't see balloons.


The first thing I noticed in the video was the impressive gusty wind at ground level. That suggests it was also very windy at altitude. I saw some obvious birds flapping their wings. I saw some whitish spots at higher altitude that could be also be birds or something being blown by the wind. I saw a pinkish object that seemed to change shape like a balloon could in gusty wind. I saw it move back and forth like a balloon could in gusty wind. It seemed to disappear when it moved to the white cloudy area, which would be consistent with a balloon moving under a cloud (it's hard to see light colored objects against other light colored objects).

There are other possibilities but how exactly are you excluding birds and balloons?


Faked/fabricated video would be a possibility, but the other two videos of the same event from different perspectives lessen that possibility I think.



Links? If you provide them, I'll try to look at them tonight.



Probably faked/fabricated video would be the preferred choice for somebody inclined to deny the possibility of alien visitation, for whatever reason.


I'm not denying it as a possibility. I would need some good evidence for it, however.



What about flares? What about Chinese Lanterns? What about some kind of meteor swarm? Anything else those lights could be?


It's daylight. It takes a lot of light to overcome that, so these are more likely seen due to reflected sunlight, but sure, these can be something else being blown around in the wind as I suggested in my first post.

Van Rijn
2011-Jun-28, 09:24 PM
This is almost certainly a CGI fake, with several accomplices. We can expect many more like this, as CGI equipment and programs become cheaper and more ubiquitous.
see
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/ufo/8599547/UFOs-spotted-over-London.html

I didn't have that much time to look at it this morning, but if it's CGI, I've seen better examples.

PaulLogan
2011-Jun-29, 01:19 AM
i'd say a cgi fake is a real possibility. plus a few friends who look up in the sky and a few people that are not in on it and just follow the example and look up to see what it's all about.
the "mothership" is a bit too uniform for my taste - although it is at least cloud high, which together with the angle of the sun could possibly explain that.
i watched one other youtube vid that was linked to in the yahoo page (the tower bridge one) and i am very suspicious about the movement of the lights. i get the distinct feeling that they are moved by a human hand using a graphic tablet or a mouse. there's a certain jerkiness to the movement that could be human...

assuming for a moment it is not fake, i would certainly rule out birds and balloons. no bird flies that fast (the objects are clearly at least cloud high, which allows a rough lower distance estimate) and the objects are too bright for birds. same goes for balloons.
i am not aware of any man-made object that could fly such flight paths at such speeds.
in that case it raises interesting questions and an alien origin or humans from a different time becomes a real possibility.

but alas, my gut tells me: probably fake.

Van Rijn
2011-Jun-29, 02:09 AM
I had more time to look at it tonight. I stepped through by frame and can now see that the "balloon thing" disappears before it reaches the clouds. So, I withdraw the balloon argument.

David Mc
2011-Jun-29, 02:14 AM
The large red and white sign is still there at 1:42 - 1:44 (or so) in the video, it hasn't moved, you can see parts of it behind the gal in yellow sweater. I don't see the sun move. What about the actual UFO-like objects darting around in the sky that everybody on the street is looking up at and taking photos of? Are they paid actors, or just in on the joke? In my opinion, it takes a real dedication to a foregone conclusion to totally discount what is shown in this video. Just my opinion...
Everybody? One guy just walks off and onto his business during the invasion.
The "forgone conclusion" in this case is that the video has recorded a UFO.
"The Earth is flat", "The Earth is the center of the Universe"... those were also forgone conclusions and fair enough.
But then you have to start asking questions.
Let's answer some questions with the positive response.

Why does the guy in the dark blue shirt cross the street and end up having his picture taken by a "stranger"?
Because he saw a UFO.
Why is it that none of the casual Londoners speak English?
Because they saw a UFO.
Why don't UFOs have shadows? If the Sun is behind it, then ... ?
Because it's normal for a UFO.
Why is it that the number of UFOs coincide with the number of cars that have the Sun reflecting in the windshields?
Because it's normal for UFOs.
Why does the UFO continue to occupy the same area?
Because it's normal for UFOs.
Why do the UFOs disappear when the camera operator changes position?
Because it's normal for UFOs.
Why does the object disappear behind the clouds before it's behind the clouds?
Because it's normal for UFOs.
What was the original purpose for shooting the video?
To record a UFO.

The last question is the only one with a sensible answer. The video does not address any other subject.

Luckmeister
2011-Jun-29, 05:38 AM
I'm not somebody who believes in alien visitation, but.....

Interesting! You don't believe in alien visitation and yet you seem to be trying very hard in that post to justify a belief.


But if I had to choose between birds, balloons or alien spacecraft, I would be forced to choose alien spacecraft because I don't see birds or balloons. What about flares? What about Chinese Lanterns? What about some kind of meteor swarm? Anything else those lights could be? Other than alien spacecraft I mean -- and other than birds or balloons?

It's very difficult to rule out all other possibilities than alien spacecraft. I would prefer to approach the problem from the need to prove that it is an alien spacecraft rather than being left with that choice after dismissing everything else (especially if one has a predisposed desire to rule out everything else).

eburacum45
2011-Jun-29, 06:35 AM
Incidentally, if the second film was shot from the offices of The Mill, it might be instructive to find out who they are.
http://www.themill.com/what-we-do/television--film-vfx.aspx

The Mill's Television and Film studio combines creative excellence with technical innovation to create high-end visual effects for both broadcast and film. We have collaborated on television projects as diverse as: 'Doctor Who', 'Merlin' and 'Sherlock' for the BBC; 'Elizabeth', 'Longford' and 'Cast Off's' for Channel 4; 'Alice' for SyFy and 'Skellig' for Sky1.

David Mc
2011-Jun-29, 06:08 PM
Do you have a link to their video?
Despite the apparent, you can't rule them out on the circumstance.
That's just as wrong as accepting the first video as proof without question.

AllQuestionsNoAnswers
2011-Jun-29, 07:24 PM
That video has got to be a prank -- or more likely, as it turns out a very successful attempt to get free publicity for Mill's Television and Film studio. All things considered, and discussing with others, that is my final conclusion. For what it is worth. There's so many easy ways to fake a video or picture these days and way too many bored people looking to do practical jokes over the internet. R.A.F. -- I couldn't figure out what your question was, that's why no answer, and your second post seemed a little confrontational. I notice you're like that with everybody who posts anything that remotely opens the possibility of a UFO "sighting" being the real thing, so no personal offense taken. Some of you regular UFO debunkers who posted on this thread might think about being a little less "direct" with newbie posters who are seeking feedback on UFO sightings/info, unless of course your goal is to chase them away. My impression is that a couple of you at least are itching for a debate on the subject. Take that observation for it's worth, probably not much, just an opinion. Can't wait for the next fake video on Yahoo, and I'm sure I won't have to wait long. When will E.T. really show him/her/itself???

Garrison
2011-Jun-29, 07:44 PM
That video has got to be a prank -- or more likely, as it turns out a very successful attempt to get free publicity for Mill's Television and Film studio. All things considered, and discussing with others, that is my final conclusion. For what it is worth. There's so many easy ways to fake a video or picture these days and way too many bored people looking to do practical jokes over the internet. R.A.F. -- I couldn't figure out what your question was, that's why no answer, and your second post seemed a little confrontational. I notice you're like that with everybody who posts anything that remotely opens the possibility of a UFO "sighting" being the real thing, so no personal offense taken. Some of you regular UFO debunkers who posted on this thread might think about being a little less "direct" with newbie posters who are seeking feedback on UFO sightings/info, unless of course your goal is to chase them away. My impression is that a couple of you at least are itching for a debate on the subject. Take that observation for it's worth, probably not much, just an opinion. Can't wait for the next fake video on Yahoo, and I'm sure I won't have to wait long. When will E.T. really show him/her/itself???

There have been lots of debates here on the topic of UFO's and a common theme among them is the lousy evidence offered up by UFO proponents and attempts at argument by Youtube/Google. Essentially starting a thread with a video link and 'what do you think of it?' is about the best guarantee of annoying other posters you can come up with.

eburacum45
2011-Jun-29, 08:37 PM
Here's the second video, apparently filmed from the Mill
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nN6mhnD7E0
Here's the Mill blog; notice that they do not deny that they made it
http://www.themill.com/blog/2011/june/28/the-truth-is-out-there.aspx#comments

It may (or may not) be a viral for Torchwood...

AllQuestionsNoAnswers
2011-Jun-29, 09:19 PM
Essentially starting a thread with a video link and 'what do you think of it?' is about the best guarantee of annoying other posters you can come up with.

Yeah -- so I see. Lesson learned. Although, I think what annoyed a couple of the posters most is that despite my "I'm a skeptic" declaration, my subsequent musings on the subject may have led them to suspect I was presenting the video as a "real" UFO filming, rather than just looking for feedback on what those tricky moving lights in the sky could really be. Looking through past posts by newbies thinking they have the scoop on real alien/UFO sightings and how pathetic some of those attempts were, I can understand the annoyance. Sorry about that! :naughty:

Strange
2011-Jun-29, 09:39 PM
Although, I think what annoyed a couple of the posters most is that despite my "I'm a skeptic" declaration, my subsequent musings on the subject may have led them to suspect I was presenting the video as a "real" UFO filming, rather than just looking for feedback on what those tricky moving lights in the sky could really be.

Probably not helped by the "But if I had to choose between birds, balloons or alien spacecraft, I would be forced to choose alien spacecraft because I don't see birds or balloons."

But you don't have to choose between those three things. You are setting up a strawman argument and then using it to say "so it must be aliens". This is the sort of twisted "logic" that baffles me.

Surely, birds or balloons (or 10 million other things ) are almost infinitely more plausible than an alien spacecraft on this evidence. Flying unicorns are just as plausible as aliens, but you didn't assume that might be the answer.

And there is always "I don't know".

* And don't ask me to name them :)

AllQuestionsNoAnswers
2011-Jun-29, 10:29 PM
Flying unicorns are just as plausible as aliens, but you didn't assume that might be the answer.

Not in my book of outlandish possibilities, they aren't. Flying unicorns would be way down the list, somewhere around flying cows and levitating elephants. But alien spacecraft, now we're talking definite maybe's. I get your meaning though, all joking aside. Jeez, gotta watch what you say on this board, one wrong word or phrase and they nail you to the wall with it!!

Garrison
2011-Jun-29, 10:40 PM
Not in my book of outlandish possibilities, they aren't. Flying unicorns would be way down the list, somewhere around flying cows and levitating elephants. But alien spacecraft, now we're talking definite maybe's. I get your meaning though, all joking aside. Jeez, gotta watch what you say on this board, one wrong word or phrase and they nail you to the wall with it!!

But is it more likely based on the available evidence? Is there anything in this video that would allow you to disprove the notion that it's a unicorn, a dragon, or an Aurora (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurora_%28aircraft%29) straying out of Area 51? Very few here will dispute the possibility that aliens might visit Earth but so far no one has offered anything that even begins to substantiate the claim that they have done so.

Luckmeister
2011-Jun-30, 01:41 AM
Flying unicorns would be way down the list, somewhere around flying cows and levitating elephants. But alien spacecraft, now we're talking definite maybe's.

Are we? What I hope is that you're not making the mistake of using the sheer volume of Unidentified Flying Object sightings to lend a false credibility to alien visitation. When any myth becomes popular, it gets blown out of proportion with motivation being money, notoriety or the fun of pranks -- or even just because it's an interesting subject.

Here's an example: When I was young, a Seattle newspaper ran a story that some people had noticed pitting in their car windshields. Everybody started inspecting their cars and the "pock-marked windshield" craze hit the area. Theories abounded that rivaled the Moon hoax nonsense. It turned out the pitting was normal for aging windshields and usually went unnoticed, but for a while, everything imaginable was getting blamed for it (including chemtrails).

David Mc
2011-Jun-30, 02:10 AM
Here's the second video, apparently filmed from the Mill
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nN6mhnD7E0
Here's the Mill blog; notice that they do not deny that they made it
http://www.themill.com/blog/2011/june/28/the-truth-is-out-there.aspx#comments

It may (or may not) be a viral for Torchwood...

Thank you for the trouble.
From the POV of the first video, their office window will be around the corner and to the left.
Those are the same buildings in both angles. The tables adjacent are the same.
It's the same intersection but the cameras don't show the same part of the sky.

Judging by the clouds, some time has passed between the two and more than mere minutes.

So the confirming video was shot by the same people at the same intersection?
And those people are in the business of visual effects.
Here's their "What We Do" page (http://www.themill.com/what-we-do/vfx.aspx)

A little bit of fun from some creative people.
UFO hunters, shame on you for biting on this.
The Mill, congratulations on the creativity.
They didn't even try hard and still picked up over a million hits on the video.

Again, thanks for the link.