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BigDon
2011-Jul-13, 05:33 PM
So I had an issue a short time ago that got briefly physical.

Somebody who thought face to face encounters were somehow on par with internet chats.

I mentioned I was an unashamed iCarly fan and that when Jennette Mccurdy came to San Francisco I had planned to sneak away and see her at the Stoneridge Mall. And that I didn't make it because I was sitting with my gravely ill mother who passed away that Saterday.

And this individual said I was a "*bleeping* pedo".

:eh:

I literally asked him to say that to my face, and not from the other side of the room and he did!

Stood there three feet from me and repeated himself a second time, like he was talking to a picture or a tv set.

I hit him in his left eye with a perfect right cross. Knocked him flat on his back and swolled it shut.

Some people feel I'm the bad guy because I hit him first. (Well, it was a two hit fight. I hit him and he hit the ground.) And that there is some sort of anger management issue. I counter with I wasn't angry in the emotional sense and that I deliberately and calculatedly hit him in his eye. And I'll do it again, not a problem.

Is this bad?

As an aside...

When my youngest was still going to acting school she read for the role of Sam Puckett and got a second call back. The third call back would have been down in Los Angeles and we then realized we had no people or means down there we sort of backed off on it.

Nowadays Boo composes and has written a musical, including the songs and score. She's trying to find a producer and she gets her feelings hurt when they do the no show routine on her at restaurant meetings.

NEOWatcher
2011-Jul-13, 05:50 PM
Is this bad?
The comment or the punch?
I guess it depends on how it was said, and what your relation to this person is.

Anyway; I don't think pedophile applies in this case anyway.
First: She's 19 years old.
Second: She's an actress. So; it's always nice to see someone in thier natural state to see if they are anything close to what they are on a show.

Now; If you said you wanted to see her because you had a crush on her, then I'd wonder.

HenrikOlsen
2011-Jul-13, 05:55 PM
Now; If you said you wanted to see her because you had a crush on her, then I'd wonder.
And pedophile would still not apply.

Dirty old man, said with a smile, might.

Fazor
2011-Jul-13, 05:58 PM
More aggressive than myself, for sure. But "Why don't you come say that to my face?!" followed by someone actually coming and saying it to your face sort of assumes you're starting a fight. I, for one, think it's good when people who think they can say or do what they want with no repercussions suddenly find themselves . . . repercussionated? :)

NEOWatcher
2011-Jul-13, 06:03 PM
And pedophile would still not apply.
Well; I didn't want to go with any deeper wording than "crush", which is why I would just "wonder".


Dirty old man, said with a smile, might.
Agreed.

Then there's the old "gee, I wish I were that age again", and the other "I had a crush on her back then" which both indicate a realization of the age difference.

BigDon
2011-Jul-13, 06:38 PM
Hey! Even the cynical old President of Capitol Records finds her utterly charming and talented. I've seen the pictures.

I'm just a mere mortal, not a captain of industry. An industry that eats fakers alive.

and before you go there:

Yes, I know the difference between actors and roles.

Good God, you don't think I know I'm fiftyone?

Charmed is the way *I* would describe it. "Fan" also works.

No, I don't have a twitter, facebook or other social contact media thingy nor have I ever tried to contact her nor intend to. C'mon, that's way too creepy.

Even at nineteen she's a year younger than my youngest daughter. I have some perspective still.

Oh, I'm starting to get steamed, I best go wander off to another thread for a while.

Moose
2011-Jul-13, 07:25 PM
My perspective on it, Don, since you've asked. I'm not going to come out and approve or disapprove, that's somewhat beyond the point, but I can offer you an analysis of sorts. There are four major decision points to the incident. Each decision led directly to the fight.

1) His calling you a pedo was out of line. I suspect that in jurisdictions that recognize "fighting words", those would qualify. I can't judge from your description if his original choice of words were deliberately belligerent or catastrophically ill-considered, but they were intensely rude.

2) Telling him to say that to your face, over here, put him in a position where he couldn't back down gracefully. <-- This is the point of no return, where the fight became almost inevitable.

3) He didn't. He stood by his words. That put you in a position where you couldn't back down gracefully either.

4) And so you didn't.

On the (slightly) plus side, I suspect he'll mind his words a bit more carefully when talking to strangers.

Fazor
2011-Jul-13, 07:42 PM
Oh, some additional thoughts. I always have a part of me that thinks, when someone like that automatically jumps to "You pedo!", that it's on them that they can't look at the person in question in a non-sexual way. I'm not saying "If they accuse, then that means they're one!" but it shows me that they are the ones that automatically jump to that kind of thinking.

For instance, he probably wouldn't jump to that conclusion if you said "Oh, I really enjoy those old Annie movies!" or "That kid in sixth-sense was really good." but as soon as you mention someone who he probably thinks is attractive too, he calls you a pedo because why else could you possibly be a fan?

Paul Beardsley
2011-Jul-13, 08:11 PM
More aggressive than myself, for sure. But "Why don't you come say that to my face?!" followed by someone actually coming and saying it to your face sort of assumes you're starting a fight. I, for one, think it's good when people who think they can say or do what they want with no repercussions suddenly find themselves . . . repercussionated? :)

Agreed. I am getting seriously fed up with people getting away with bad stuff because they are confident that they will be protected from the consequences of their actions.

I'm also getting heartily sick of people thinking "pedo" every time someone mentions children, no matter how innocent the context. I think I recently mentioned posting (on the IMDB site) my delight at hearing schoolkids on a train talking enthusiastically about Doctor Who. Someone replied with a comment about reporting me to social services. I really, really hope the person who said this meets someone like BigDon and is made to think twice about making offensive remarks.

SeanF
2011-Jul-13, 08:16 PM
It's not the age thing that makes me wonder about BigDon - It's the fact that Sam Puckett is a little brat with no redeeming social qualities at all.

;)

NEOWatcher
2011-Jul-13, 08:18 PM
It's not the age thing that makes me wonder about BigDon - It's the fact that Sam Puckett is a little brat with no redeeming social qualities at all.
Then it might be a fair fight. :lol:

Fazor
2011-Jul-13, 08:49 PM
Heh, just as a fun aside; the local radio station has been running a spot about a Disney Channel child scouting/talent search that will be holding a try-out locally here sometime apparently in the near future. I've been tuning it out, but because of this thread, when it played a minute ago it caught my attention.

. . . then, at the end, they literally repeated the phone number five times in a row! Something like "We're so and so at 1-800-Phone number, so call us at 1-800-Phone number. That's 1-800-Phone number. Again, 1-800-Phone number. Call 1-800-Phone number today!"

One of the most obnoxious things Fazor has ever heard. Fazor has done enough advertising to know that repeating a name like Fazor in your commercial can help the name Fazor be memorable. But don't just end with "Fazor. Fazor. Again, it's Fazor. That's Fazor. FAZOR!" Sheesh.

NEOWatcher
2011-Jul-14, 12:06 PM
Call 1-800-Phone number today!" ...One of the most obnoxious things Fazor has ever heard.
The more obnoxious part of that is that it's a scam.
They may have a client who was once a walk-on in in show, but they mention the stars in a way that makes you think they were thier clients if you don't pay close attention. I don't know if it's the same firm, but they are being sued by Disney (http://disneyinfonet.com/2011/05/20/disney-looking-into-talent-scouting-event-for-possible-legal-action/).

Jim
2011-Jul-14, 04:51 PM
... 2) Telling him to say that to your face, over here, put him in a position where he couldn't back down gracefully. ...

"Oh, hey, you didn't think I was serious, did you?" said with a big smile would have stopped things there without him "backing down."


... On the (slightly) plus side, I suspect he'll mind his words a bit more carefully when talking to strangers.

One would hope.

TrAI
2011-Jul-14, 07:58 PM
Hmmm... It would probably be best not to deck someone in such a case, as it does not address the statement he made, it only shows that it affected you enough to make you resort to violence. Some people will interpret this as you responding in indignation and anger, while others will think you did it because he got too close to the truth, and that you were unable to think of any better way to respond or shut him up.

I am not sure what the point of your claim about not being angry or emotional is, because that does not really improve your case. Responding with an action that has the potential of seriously injuring or killing someone for an insult that did not cause emotional impact seems a bit excessive and hardly rational. Hitting someone in indignant anger over an insult is hardly rational either, but it is the assumption people will make, and the state of mind most find the easiest to understand and identify with.

Some people may even find reason for suspicion that his claim of you being a pedophile was correct, and that you, fearing you would be outed, resorted to the only way to shut him up you could think of in your worry, the idea being that if you didn't do it in anger, you must have had some distinct, rational purpouse in attacking him and since it is rational for someone that is a pedophile to wish to keep that a secret, they may easily assume that was the cause for your strike. It is as silly a conclusion as the original one, and just as much based on poor logic, but I have met quite a few people who do think that way.

So, anyway, I wouldn't go so far as to conclude you are a bad person, but I don't think it was the best solution for the situation, you should have tried to avoid escalating the situation into violence, it might easily have gone much worse. It might have been better to just say something along the line of it being a rather silly conclusion and leave the fellow to his foolish musings.

Buttercup
2011-Jul-14, 08:02 PM
Since you asked:

If I were you, I wouldn't have admitted being an iCarly fan (I'm a younger-than-you woman who wouldn't admit being a fan of that show, if I were).

I wouldn't have asked the other guy to repeat it.

He shouldn't have said anything in the first place, much less called your bluff.

As for socking him a good one...well, maybe that'll teach him to keep his opinions to himself from now on.

Fazor
2011-Jul-14, 08:06 PM
Since you asked:

If I were you, I wouldn't have admitted being an iCarly fan (I'm a younger-than-you woman who wouldn't admit being a fan of that show, if I were).


I'll admit that I don't *hate* the show. I wouldn't watch it if Tara didn't, but she records it which shows how much she likes it. There's other, way more juvenile shows that I also admit to liking; like Spongebob, Rugrats, Arthur (yeah, that old PBS one), Fairly Odd Parents, etc etc. Sure, those are all cartoons and don't involve child actors/actresses, but the point is that just because you're an adult doesn't mean you can't like "kids things".


He shouldn't have said anything in the first place, much less called your bluff.
Well, technically since BD hit him, it wasn't a bluff. :)

Paul Beardsley
2011-Jul-14, 08:18 PM
Hmmm... [snip]

Maybe some think that way, but I doubt it. If you're resorting to violence to cover something up, you don't ask the person to repeat what they said. IMO most people would see the action for what it was: suitable punishment.

And seriously, what alternative is there? Saying, "That's a silly conclusion" is hardly a put-down. Say "You'll be hearing from my lawyer"?

profloater
2011-Jul-15, 03:49 PM
So I had an issue a short time ago that got briefly physical.

Well I offer this: I slowly discovered things about my father in WW2 but my favourite is: he was travelling in uniform with my mother (before they were married) in a train and someone said something like "You'll be all right tonight" or some such and my dad punched him on the nose. So I guess to be PC we have to avoid violence but as I just heard in the Reith lecture from Burma, radio 4, if the choice is cowardice or violence, choose violence every time.

Kyrre
2011-Jul-15, 04:53 PM
Personally, I would have given him some verbal abuse in return, as I mostly feel like responding in kind rather than escalating.
But I would have been hoping he would try a punch and then things would have progressed as in your case.

As a an alien (to the US of A), I also find it encouraging that contrary to my impressions so far disputes sometimes can be resolved without lawyers being involved even here.

Perikles
2011-Jul-15, 05:15 PM
The kind of incident being discussed reminds me of the 'big nose' incident in Life of Brian. (I'm not sure if a youtube link is allowed here, but the religious background is irrelevant to this thread.) The sketch is a hilarious comic parody of something which is actually not funny, because somebody gets hurt. But it makes the point that one careless remark can have serious consequences when in a situation where saving face is a big issue.

Luckmeister
2011-Jul-15, 05:24 PM
BigDon, you'll be lucky if you don't end up with a court summons. A few years ago I watched a similar incident happen (in a bar) with a guy I knew. He got in a short war of words with another guy and ended up decking him. He took the first and only swing and ended up with a nasty assault charge, a little jail time and paying medical compensation. A court does not look at any verbal insult as justification for physical assault. He had a history of this kind of behaviour and the court was pretty hard on him because of that. Next time, I'd take a quick chill-pill. :)

The Backroad Astronomer
2011-Jul-15, 05:27 PM
You're not a pedo just guilty of bad taste. I personally find the show a bit painful to sit thru but my neices like some those disney pre-teen/teen shows.

tlbs101
2011-Jul-15, 07:28 PM
BigDon, you'll be lucky if you don't end up with a court summons. A few years ago I watched a similar incident happen (in a bar) with a guy I knew. He got in a short war of words with another guy and ended up decking him. He took the first and only swing and ended up with a nasty assault charge, a little jail time and paying medical compensation. A court does not look at any verbal insult as justification for physical assault. He had a history of this kind of behaviour and the court was pretty hard on him because of that. Next time, I'd take a quick chill-pill. :)

BigDon, Luckmeister's post is the first thing that came to my mind, too (other than, you aren't a pedo for being a fan of an almost-twenty-something actress).
My only addition to Luckmeister's post is; you better hope that the guy you punched doesn't read BAUT because this whole thread might be used against you in court. I hope this doesn't happen. Perhaps the Mods can delete it?

Edit to add:
This just occured to me: The guy you punched probably said you were a pedo, not for being an iCarly fan, but probably thought you wanted to troll a concert full of preteen and young teen girls.

TJMac
2011-Jul-18, 03:30 AM
I also agree with Luckmeister.....

That said, I also like your reaction. Too many people seem to go out of their way to be as annoying and abusive as possible. I little instant karma might help him.

I'm reminded of a book called In the Gravest Extreme, (author, Massad Ayoob) which is a manual for dealing with using lethal force. A great deal of the book, deals with the consequences of your actions, and how if you have a choice to walk away it is by far and away the best choice.

While you achieved some personal satisfaction, you may actually end up losing more than you gained. By your action, you neither confirmed or disproved his words. The same would have happened had you ignored him completely.

TJ

Cookie
2011-Jul-18, 04:10 AM
The guy got what was coming to him; a fist to the face.
He obviously deserved it, imho.

Pro tip: Don't talk smack unless you want to get smacked.
Then again, that's common knowledge.

Noclevername
2011-Jul-19, 02:18 PM
BigDon, I strongly recommend that if this thing does go to court, you don't go with the "deliberately and calculatedly" line; that's premeditation and it does not go down well in legal circles. Just say you lost your temper and popped him one-- a few compulsory anger management classes are far better that a stay in jail.

BigDon
2011-Jul-21, 06:39 PM
As it turns out, as far as the other guy...

There is a draw-back to aquiring a substantial amount of parking tickets, and then blowing off the judge when he politely requests your presence in front of him that goes beyond the financial. It seems this man has to pick and choose what he can use the police's assistance with. And most of his people saw what happened and thought he was asking for it. This guy is famous for not being able to control his mouth. (An Italian in his late twenties, go figure.)

The punch line of this incident?

*I hit him when he wasn't ready.*

Of course I had to ask him, "When will you be ready?" as I've decided not to like this guy. There's a gym with a ring and a ref right down the steet but knucklehead wouldn't take the bait. The kid has youth and height but I have age and weight. I'm back to a happy 235 pounds again. He's about 180.

But we've agreed the other is an unsufferable jerk and we almost never hang out in the same places anyway. No, neither of us apologized. This is sort of like the end of the Korean war. The only reason we aren't at it is we have better things to do.

The Backroad Astronomer
2011-Jul-21, 06:47 PM
*I hit him when he wasn't ready.*
Wasn't that what Bart said to Buzz.

Noclevername
2011-Jul-22, 09:38 AM
No excuse, he had the entire time he was crossing the room to get ready.

SeanF
2011-Jul-22, 11:28 AM
*I hit him when he wasn't ready.*
Wasn't that what Bart said to Buzz.
Sounds more like what Buzz said about Bart. :)

Jim
2011-Jul-22, 12:10 PM
... The punch line of this incident? ...

I thought that was your fist meeting his face.


... The kid has youth and height but I have age and weight. ...

Experience and cunning will always beat out youth and enthusiasm.

LotusExcelle
2011-Jul-25, 04:18 AM
There is a thing called "disproportionate response" that I think applies here. Though I certainly respect you as a BAUT'er, I do think your response to verbal provocation is abnormal. Or, as stated, disproportionate.

While I don't agree with the provocation I agree even less with the response which took a war of words to a war of flesh. I don't don't question the wrongness of the accusation and I would also be quite upset by someone even suggesting that of me - but there is a response that is *adult* and one that is *barbaric/adolescent*. Let the man make a fool of himself by being a blowhard. If his reputation is known, then you need do nothing in response.

Essentially I am worried that someone with your experience and intelligence thinks that a punch is a good response to words.

Solfe
2011-Jul-30, 03:14 AM
I some how deleted this long rambling post about people who feign shock as an opening for violence. From first hand experience, I would stay that one in 12 people who are shocked about something will commit acts of violence as a reaction. Of those who attack, maybe 1 in 3 actually set out to do serious physical harm to you and they likely aren't as shocked or scared as they pretend.

I base this observation on a period of time from my daughter's birth to age 2 1/2. She had a large tumor on her face covering her left eye socket, part of the right and most of her nose. Most people would have a very bad reaction to her presence. As in asking us to leave public places, refusing to seat us at restaurants, etc. I had been pulled over by the police on a number of occasions because they wanted to know what I had done to my child. Once I was accused of making people ill at work (the flu, I think), not because she came in, but because someone saw photos of her. That person had to be physically restrained after striking me and she was much smaller than me.

It took me a while to figure out I couldn't punch my way out of most of other peoples bad behavior. Not that it isn't possible, I just didn't like the way it made me feel. Mind you my daughter is all better now, but backing down from idiots exacts a horrible toll. To this day, I rarely go more than three houses away from my home in daylight. I still grocery shop after midnight and don't like to go to restaurants and avoid sit down public meals at all costs. I don't go into public places until after dark. I haven't been to a movie in years.

If someone is in your face after you gave them the chance to back down, and you just hit them once, that is fine. If you kick them in the head while they are down, well... that is not so hot. If you let someone treat you badly to avoid those things, it will come back to haunt you.

I have been through anger management because I thought I needed it, it simply doesn't help because you can very easily strike someone without being mad at all. There is just a point where you can tell someone is about to lay hands on you, and if you are cool and collected, it is really easy to see when that is going to happen. Angry people make mistake after mistake until they run out of anger. Calm people can do horrible damage, usually up to the point where they feel bad about doing more. Depending on the circumstance, that can be a lot of damage.

DoggerDan
2011-Jul-30, 07:57 AM
Probably not the best idea. Calling someone a pedo is unlikely to result in charges of assault and battery. Sounds like he was asking for it, though.