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big pig
2011-Jul-20, 03:01 PM
can someone explaoin what this object is. located at 6 9 48 22 27 54 on google sky 2007 image. and on microsoft sky ? date at location 6 8 55 22 47 21. it is not a star and is orange and yellow with black object in the center. and is an unexplained anomoly. thank you david w.

HenrikOlsen
2011-Jul-20, 05:23 PM
Here's a picture of what big pig is asking about.

I tried searching SIMBAD at the coordinate without luck, perhaps someone else is luckier.
It sucks that Google Sky doesn't tell the exact source of the original image:(

Van Rijn
2011-Jul-20, 05:42 PM
Here's a picture of what big pig is asking about.

I tried searching SIMBAD at the coordinate without luck, perhaps someone else is luckier.
It sucks that Google Sky doesn't tell the exact source of the original image:(

Yes, they just give general information. A lot of it was from Palomar photos, discussed here:

http://earth.google.com/sky/partners.html

And it looks very much like a photo glitch.

ZappBrannigan
2011-Jul-20, 05:52 PM
OMG! That Classic Star Trek special effect is heading straight for us!!!

Strange
2011-Jul-20, 05:55 PM
Artefacts like this were discussed (and explained) in one of the recent silly Elenin CT threads (think "vasotec"). It would be too painful to go searching for it though :) (apart from which, I am going out).

Van Rijn
2011-Jul-20, 05:58 PM
OMG! That Classic Star Trek special effect is heading straight for us!!!

Heh! You're right. It looks like a colossal negative space wedgie of great power coming right at us at warp speed!

(Anyone know the reference for that without looking it up?)

NEOWatcher
2011-Jul-20, 06:17 PM
(Anyone know the reference for that without looking it up?)
Apparently not me, because the one it looks like to me did not head toward the big-E. (from the immunity syndrome)
Although; could you be thinking of the doomsday device?

Van Rijn
2011-Jul-20, 06:43 PM
I don't think it mentions this glitch specifically, but here's a good post at another site about sky survey glitches and why some of them happen:

http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1426303&page=1

Quoting:



The only point of this collection is to provide an educational resource to newer users, to demonstrate that the imagery we're looking at in GSky is, in most cases, rather poor, particularly in comparison with professional-quality imagery which is available through other sources on the Web. With a few rare exceptions, GSky has but a single (visible) image of each portion of the sky, with no pedigree to even show when, where, or how the image was taken. The color balance in most of the sky (the DSS area) is badly reproduced. And then there are a variety of image problems from a number of different causes, as you'll see below. These data problems are not at all uncommon, if you spend some time to browse around the GSky imagery.

Van Rijn
2011-Jul-20, 06:52 PM
Apparently not me, because the one it looks like to me did not head toward the big-E. (from the immunity syndrome)
Although; could you be thinking of the doomsday device?

No, afraid not.

NGCHunter
2011-Jul-20, 07:25 PM
It's a bokeh from the strobe light on a plane as it passed over the Palomar Sky Survey scope.
You can tell in the wider field 60 arcminute image of the plate:
http://archive.stsci.edu/cgi-bin/dss_search?v=poss2ukstu_red&r=06+08+55&d=22+47+21&e=J2000&h=60.0&w=60.0&f=gif&c=none&fov=NONE&v3=
You can see the spider vane and central obstruction in the light, so it's a bokeh, a reflection of the optical system. Right at the edge of the plate you can see the wing light (one of the navigation lights) form a streak and a bright reflection of the optics in the center, right in line with the "object" mentioned by big pig, and an identical light source farther down the center of the image (which forms a parallel line with the wing light streak). This is a classic "plane pattern" in an astrophoto, with the plane being close enough to the observatory to be out of focus, hence the bokehs. Because it was recorded using a red light sensitive film plate the green navigation light is invisible.

Swift
2011-Jul-20, 08:20 PM
And it looks very much like a photo glitch.
It reminds me the most of a damaged negative.

By the way, welcome to BAUT big pig .

toolazytotypemyname
2011-Jul-20, 08:52 PM
Heh! You're right. It looks like a colossal negative space wedgie of great power coming right at us at warp speed!

(Anyone know the reference for that without looking it up?)

It's from something I heard on Doctor Demento around 25 years ago, but I can't remember the name. Star Drek or something like that?


As for the object in question, it's clearly the Eye of Sauron.

Van Rijn
2011-Jul-20, 08:52 PM
It reminds me the most of a damaged negative.


I was thinking that also, but I believe NGCHunter is right. That post I linked to:

http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1426303&page=1

has an example of a green blob that looks similar to this and it says there are at least a hundred examples:



Internal Telescopic Reflections - At least 100, ranging from huge internal reflections near the brightest stars in the Sky, to much smaller ones scattered around. The hardware in the inside of the telescope (the "spider" which holds the secondary mirror) is a dead giveaway. Two examples of the kinds of Reflections found in the Google Sky imagery are posted, then two pictures of a telescope "spider" for comparison:

Van Rijn
2011-Jul-20, 08:56 PM
It's from something I heard on Doctor Demento around 25 years ago, but I can't remember the name. Star Drek or something like that?


That's it! It's probably one of the earliest Star Trek parodies. If you google "Star Drek" you can find it on YouTube and probably other places. It's only a few minutes long.

By the way, it looks like others might have later used the same name. This one was done by Bobby Pickett and Peter Ferrara.

big pig
2011-Jul-20, 09:34 PM
[rudeness removed] have to zoom far past anything in our solar system to get even close to object. and the same object is in 2 locations on 2 different telescopes for 2 different years. so it is not a lense flare or overhead plane. thx to henrik olsen for posting picture

big pig
2011-Jul-20, 09:41 PM
explain that as lense flare, swamp gas with the different parameters and years,locations, and distance from oursolar system

NGCHunter
2011-Jul-20, 11:24 PM
[rudeness removed] have to zoom far past anything in our solar system to get even close to object. and the same object is in 2 locations on 2 different telescopes for 2 different years. so it is not a lense flare or overhead plane. thx to henrik olsen for posting picture

It's a bokeh precisely because it's not anything "far past our solar system," in fact that means it must be quite close to the telescope... like a plane. And yes, planes will fly over different telescopes in different years (or even the same year in some cases). Why would you even think that means it can't be a plane? That's what planes look like when they pass through a long telescopic exposure close enough to the telescope to not be at the same focus point as the stars. In this case because it's a red sensitive image you can only see one of the nav lights, but generally it's the same concept as this, just with a closer plane, only the nav lights on constant, and faster strobe tempo:
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c85/jhuerkamp/M33Comet8PTuttleandAirplane.jpg
Another example at less focal length:
http://www.pcsincnet.com/BlackForestStarParty2008/NightSkyWithAirplane.jpg
Again, since big pig's image was done with a red sensitive film plate, the green line would be invisible and all you'd have is the red line and the parallel strobe bokehs.

ToSeek
2011-Jul-21, 12:13 AM
OMG! That Classic Star Trek special effect is heading straight for us!!!

da-da da-da DA-DA da-da
da-da da-da DA-DA da-da
DUM DA-da-da.

big pig
2011-Jul-21, 12:21 AM
totally different anomolies. it might help if you go to both sites and punch in appropriate coordinates for google and for microsoft and you will have to zoom quite a bit and you will see that it is clearly not a plane. thanks for your work on posting your links, but they are apples and elephant comparisons to object i am referancing.

vonmazur
2011-Jul-21, 01:55 AM
totally different anomolies. it might help if you go to both sites and punch in appropriate coordinates for google and for microsoft and you will have to zoom quite a bit and you will see that it is clearly not a plane. thanks for your work on posting your links, but they are apples and elephant comparisons to object i am referancing.

No they are not. Maybe you should give the professionals credit here, they do have some idea what goes on with reflecting telescopes....

Dale

NGCHunter
2011-Jul-21, 02:21 AM
totally different anomolies. it might help if you go to both sites and punch in appropriate coordinates for google and for microsoft

I already gave you the link to the actual plate image that the microsoft and google images were generated from. My link's image is higher quality and specific to the red plate on which the plane was recorded, rather than a stitched, processed mosaic. In other words, I already showed you your own "anomaly" in higher quality than what you presented.


and you will have to zoom quite a bit and you will see that it is clearly not a plane.
Direct question; have you ever photographed a plane in a long exposure image through a telescope before while it was tracking at the sidereal rate?
I ask because I have done just that and this is the same phenomenon, same as the examples I showed you. The only differences are that the Palomar Sky Survey was recording with a red sensitive film plate and it occurred with a plane close enough to the observatory to be out of focus, hence the bokehs.

Another direct question; if you focus a 2 meter focal length telescope on the stars and take an image, approximately how close to the telescope must a light source be in order to produce a bokeh within the same image?

Swift
2011-Jul-21, 02:54 AM
totally different anomolies. it might help if you go to both sites and punch in appropriate coordinates for google and for microsoft and you will have to zoom quite a bit and you will see that it is clearly not a plane. thanks for your work on posting your links, but they are apples and elephant comparisons to object i am referancing.
It seems like you think it is something more than an anomaly, something other than an airplane or an image artifact. Is that true? And if so, what do you think it is?

Van Rijn
2011-Jul-21, 02:54 AM
Ah, the post I linked to did have a specific reference to this feature in an attached file. Unsurprisingly, it lists this as an internal reflection. I'd recommend anyone that's at all interested in this topic do the following:

Install Google Earth if you haven't already done so (but be sure to check the install options - it will try to sneak in a couple of things, like trying to make Chrome your default browser).

Then, from this post:

http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1426303&page=1

download the attached file "Sky Data Problems v6.0.kmz".

Open the file in Google Earth. Notice how many thumbtacks there are (each one represents a problem). Select "location search" and enter "6 9 48 22 27 54" (as listed in this thread's opening post). That will bring up the feature that's the topic of this thread. You should see a thumbtack note that the feature is an internal reflection.

The problem file looks like a great resource. It is a good way to get a better idea of what different kinds of problems look like, and it makes it pretty clear that there are a lot of them.